2020 450 Shootouts

hellion
Posts
1083
Joined
12/19/2009
Location
Westfield, MA US
8/13/2019 4:41am
Apparently MrInfo isn’t any better at math than ML. 6x5 does not equal 36 either. At least with ML it was a typo.

Really enjoyed the quick and honest shootout ML, can’t wait for more. I am a paper magazine addict, have been for thirty years. But even I find myself not completely reading the new issues when they show up because it’s already old news. I miss the way it was, but love the way it is. Change or die.
3
8/13/2019 5:05am
Top shelf content per usual from Lindsay. Concise, articulate and relatable.

Anyone know if he intends on performing similar testing on this years 250s?
1
Panic_Rev
Posts
686
Joined
7/13/2012
Location
Fayetteville, AR US
8/13/2019 5:30am
Lastander wrote:
As an outsider, can anyone explain why it would piss of a bunch of people, when ML used his own money to buy a shitload of...
As an outsider, can anyone explain why it would piss of a bunch of people, when ML used his own money to buy a shitload of bikes and test HIS bikes, in HIS own way?
They have small man units and feel threatened.
3
kkawboy14
Posts
11486
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6/5/2015
Location
TX US
8/13/2019 5:34am
Lastander wrote:
As an outsider, can anyone explain why it would piss of a bunch of people, when ML used his own money to buy a shitload of...
As an outsider, can anyone explain why it would piss of a bunch of people, when ML used his own money to buy a shitload of bikes and test HIS bikes, in HIS own way?
Because they don’t want to have to spend the money themselves for the bikes to do their shoot outs!

If he sets a precedent of buying bikes, the OEMs could start saying, “no free bikes for you magazines”

That would be my guess!

The smart thing for the OEMs would be to give ML all the free bikes. Pay him to have a set up for 5 days at a track, where in all the magazines could have access to all the bikes, at the same time.
4

The Shop

BD233
Posts
406
Joined
1/7/2013
Location
DFW, TX US
8/13/2019 5:51am
greg570 wrote:
Wonder if testers also took into consideration for example hondas: - overheating - weak clutch - butter chain sliders - weak chains - footpegs that wear...
Wonder if testers also took into consideration for example hondas:
- overheating
- weak clutch
- butter chain sliders
- weak chains
- footpegs that wear faster than tires
- radiators made of (again) butter
- no oil level sight glass
- black clutch/ignition covers that are scraped before you get the bike out of the shop.

I do not care if a bike has 60 or 58 hp...but things mentioned above are for sure very important for 90% of buyers but ignored by testers in most shootouts...
kiwifan wrote:
how about the faults with the other bikes too if you are only going to point out one brands? I own a '19 Honda and I...
how about the faults with the other bikes too if you are only going to point out one brands?

I own a '19 Honda and I haven't experienced much of what you have said is wrong with them, perhaps a few years ago yes.
greg570 wrote:
I am in the market for a new bike (my 16 ktm has over 150 hours) and would like to try something else (honda for example)...
I am in the market for a new bike (my 16 ktm has over 150 hours) and would like to try something else (honda for example) but when i think about it...these are the things that matter to me the most and i just cannot justify buying anything else than ktm or husky. Honda is good looking and has great engine and so on but i am not prepared to change clutch plates every 10 hours when i can do over 150 hours on ktms clutch...
I have a 2018 CRF450, a 2019 CRF250RX and a 2019 CRF250R and the only problem I have had is the chain and chain sliders wear out quick. Other than that these other problems in your list I have not experienced....and I ride the dog sh*t out of them in the Texas heat. MX and woods. Scratched side covers and no sight glass, really...That's petty AF. Lmao. WTF needs a sight glass?? No overheating, pegs look great, clutch pack changed at 40 hrs on the 450, didn't slip but I figured cheap insurance, the 250's are still on the stock plates. Not 1 problem out of any of the three. I'm not biased. I like all the brands. I'll ride anything that's good.

I love ML's content. The game has been stale for a long time. Testing bikes set up by the OEM's at the track, using settings that the stock bikes don't come with (see Ping's reviews). The OEM's always have new settings by shootout time.It;s not a off the showroom bike like ML did. Magazines ALWAYS have an agenda. This has been refreshing and needed... Keep up the good work ML. Great content.
3
Mr. Info
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Perris, CA US
8/13/2019 6:49am
It’s so easy.
1
23
kkawboy14
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Location
TX US
8/13/2019 6:53am
Mr. Info wrote:
It’s so easy.
I’m not sure what the beef is because everything you said in your initial comments seemed confirmed by ML
5
8/13/2019 6:56am
Mr. Info wrote:
It’s so easy.
For you to stretch the truth and spread disinformation? We already knew that.
7
8/13/2019 6:58am
PS. Bud needs you to water the left hander below the big down hill.
8
Johnny Depp
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6435
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Location
Buda, TX US
8/13/2019 7:13am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2019 7:15am
ML512 wrote:
The Husqvarna was purchase from AEO Powersports in Murrieta, big thanks to Jeremy over there for helping me out even though I have a deal with...
The Husqvarna was purchase from AEO Powersports in Murrieta, big thanks to Jeremy over there for helping me out even though I have a deal with Chaparral.

And yes, I did piss off some magazines. I got calls about it all week from OEMs who said that one of them had threatened them over my Shootout.

As for the Yamaha, the mags can wait because they’re waiting on their loaner bikes from the OEM. Which means they have to sign a NDA when they test them. Mine was privately acquired so I didn’t have to sign a NDA.
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Ummm... why would any magazine be pissed off and threaten anything?? Wtf??
Probably threatening to leave Yamaha out if they didn't get bikes faster, holding everything up including the Suzuki's new graphics.

Pretty unlikely it's MXA since they don't release shootouts for months.
2
8/13/2019 7:14am
I may have missed it, but does he have a Patreon or anything? I've canceled all my print mags and would rather support him if that's where Im now getting my info
4
1
ehr400
Posts
2629
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4/1/2008
Location
Britton, MI US
8/13/2019 7:31am
Is anyone else still shocked there are 7 "mags" still printing? I mean for fucks sake it isn't like ML512 stole their one tooth up master tuning tip or something. I guess Mr. Info parties in Temecula then?
5
ML512
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Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
8/13/2019 7:32am
I may have missed it, but does he have a Patreon or anything? I've canceled all my print mags and would rather support him if that's...
I may have missed it, but does he have a Patreon or anything? I've canceled all my print mags and would rather support him if that's where Im now getting my info
I really appreciate that! Yes, I do.

https://www.patreon.com/ML512

I'm trying to not make it a handout, so I'm doing monthly giveaways through it. For August I'll giveaway a few different prizes to different patrons: Chaparral gift cards, some Oakley goggles, Fox V2 helmet, and a signed Jeff Walker jersey.

Working on next month's list already too.
18
8/13/2019 7:33am
ehr400 wrote:
Is anyone else still shocked there are 7 "mags" still printing? I mean for fucks sake it isn't like ML512 stole their one tooth up master...
Is anyone else still shocked there are 7 "mags" still printing? I mean for fucks sake it isn't like ML512 stole their one tooth up master tuning tip or something. I guess Mr. Info parties in Temecula then?
Hahaha! Now that's funny.
1
TeamGreen
Posts
36601
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Location
Thru-out, CA US
8/13/2019 7:34am
His super powerful point was that “he knew the truth”...& that “Michael lied!”
Grinning
But, Mike didn’t and Mr. Info is a fool.
Mikey DECLARED the year difference on the Zook and we all understood. Yet, a certain “complete fool” had to turn it into a dramatic “look at me” situation which is typical for him and his crowd. As to the Husky being bought somewhere-else...?
Really?
Who CARES?
Apparently NO ONE that matters!Wink
Chap-Moto doesn’t sell Huskies! “Ohhhhhh No Mr. Bill!”

Then there’s the ever-so-important “math mess up”...that changed NOTHING. Furthermore, as a devout member of the MXA-Bro-Brigade...it’s hilarious that he has the balls to bring up a typo.
Again...hilarious!

In closing, I’d like to thank Mr. Info for reminding me of how fresh and different Michael’s approach are is. Also, I took the time to reach out to him and join his YouTube community...partly because of Mr. Info’s drama, insanity and hilarity.

So, Thanks!
18
ob
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Location
Cardiff , CA US
8/13/2019 7:44am
Great Job ML! Keep it tech, leave the dumb down version for the magazine dummy's like Mr asshole.
I loved MXA like 20 years ago, now it's all about the YouTube and I'm glad guys like you are with the times.

For you guys that don't know ML , he is the real deal. He talks a lot lol, but there isn't any bullshit coming from him. Lots of thoughtful info from a guy in the industry that actually " RIDES" and dresses just like Damon Bradshaw, how can you hate on that? I'm just not sure about his bicycle choices 😂
2
Question
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3177
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FR
8/13/2019 7:47am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2019 7:48am
In addition of having bikes that are really stock, I really like the fact that ML's ranking is not gently influenced to a certain extent by the OEM's ads budget and/or the magazine owner who doesn't want to hurt feelings.

Example: TM are awesome bikes, yet they always come last in all shoot out. Curiously TM has almost no budget for ads. That is where i started to doubt the sincerity of these shoot out, and that was a long time ago.

That is why I was mainly taking into consideration what the random testers were saying (or word of mouth, and personal testing), and taking the rest with a little distance. But even then, just listening testers was not fully accurate as a modified stock bike can be a rocketship.

So good job ML, that raises the bar, and OEMs or magazines should not worry either as the biggest % in the buying decision process comes from brand loyatly, dealers network, dealer relationship, new bike generation, reliability, resell value, look, etc.
1
Johnny Depp
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6435
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Location
Buda, TX US
8/13/2019 7:56am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2019 8:02am
MIchael kudo's for your efforts and commitment to the sport.
I can relate ,having just burned enough cash for a new bike to promote a race, it's a tough game. There's an old saying, the Chicken is involved in your breakfast, but the Pig is committed!

I understand your format and enjoyed it, when you get into the next phase of details on each bike I'd like to see more lap times like the previous video where Honda was fastest. I realize you had a shit ton of stuff on your plate already. I think for most, lap times are more important than opinions. These are race bikes and of course lap times give us the most data.

Yamaha winning shootouts but not performing in the AMA pro stuff is concerning, likewise Austrian bikes doing well in the pro's and not shootouts is curious. Any opinions on that subject might work well in the next series of videos.
2
Mr. Info
Posts
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Location
Perris, CA US
8/13/2019 7:57am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2019 7:59am
Let’s leave it here. I didn’t lie, no miss information. Only agenda is telling the truth by anybody to the public is a reflection on their work and credibility that’s it. If you tell the truth from the beginning you don’t need to go back and change your story. I only saw the introduction but knew the behind the scenes because of it.
I don’t buy my bike because of any magazine or pod test. I ride each one first because I ask friends to ride their bike. Last post on this but knowing the Industry there will be others for other reasons. Just be honest and tell the truth.
Oh just so you know I am not an employee of Glen Helen but I do work for them from time to time. I act as current President of the SoCal OTMX Club and have a regular job outside the industry and have called out others for misunderstandings. Is it that hard to just tell the truth. That’s all everyone asks I think. No one can just lie or misrepresent it’s not fair to anyone.
Have a great week. And God Bless you all.
1
39
8/13/2019 8:02am
I'd like to see the test done on some different tracks, maybe with some deep loam and deep ruts and some tight turns. The track in the video seemed like the bikes were pinned in taller gears all the way around. Maybe come east to something a little different. Just me though. Great video.
3
seventeen
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358
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2/25/2019
Location
Port Saint Lucie, FL US
8/13/2019 8:10am
racerxx276 wrote:
Great Shootout video ML, really appreciate what your doing... That said, I was This close to leaving KTM and getting a Yamaha basically due to the...
Great Shootout video ML, really appreciate what your doing...

That said, I was This close to leaving KTM and getting a Yamaha basically due to the balance and suspension.
Then I start hearing that the yamaha's are blowing up... not just on the forum's , but from trusted tuners.

Yamaha engines used to be bulletproof, not sure what they changed but apparently no longer...

Guess I'll once again see if I can't make the KTM ride like it should...

I’m not convinced this is a real phenomenon versus reporting bias and base rates of how many people are buying Yamahas these days. I wouldn’t let...
I’m not convinced this is a real phenomenon versus reporting bias and base rates of how many people are buying Yamahas these days. I wouldn’t let it deter you. I doubt they are less reliable than any other brand.
I think you are on to something here. Bullet proof for me...
1
8/13/2019 8:13am
I may have missed it, but does he have a Patreon or anything? I've canceled all my print mags and would rather support him if that's...
I may have missed it, but does he have a Patreon or anything? I've canceled all my print mags and would rather support him if that's where Im now getting my info
ML512 wrote:
I really appreciate that! Yes, I do. https://www.patreon.com/ML512 I'm trying to not make it a handout, so I'm doing monthly giveaways through it. For August I'll...
I really appreciate that! Yes, I do.

https://www.patreon.com/ML512

I'm trying to not make it a handout, so I'm doing monthly giveaways through it. For August I'll giveaway a few different prizes to different patrons: Chaparral gift cards, some Oakley goggles, Fox V2 helmet, and a signed Jeff Walker jersey.

Working on next month's list already too.
Thanks! I'll check that out today
8/13/2019 8:13am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2019 8:14am
I may have missed it, but does he have a Patreon or anything? I've canceled all my print mags and would rather support him if that's...
I may have missed it, but does he have a Patreon or anything? I've canceled all my print mags and would rather support him if that's where Im now getting my info
ML512 wrote:
I really appreciate that! Yes, I do. https://www.patreon.com/ML512 I'm trying to not make it a handout, so I'm doing monthly giveaways through it. For August I'll...
I really appreciate that! Yes, I do.

https://www.patreon.com/ML512

I'm trying to not make it a handout, so I'm doing monthly giveaways through it. For August I'll giveaway a few different prizes to different patrons: Chaparral gift cards, some Oakley goggles, Fox V2 helmet, and a signed Jeff Walker jersey.

Working on next month's list already too.
I get where you are coming from on the handout thing, but this is not a handout. You are providing value to the normal folks. You are working and sacrificing for your dream, good on you.

Even without the giveaways $1-$5 bucks per month for good content is a steal IMO. As long as you keep it real and continue to deliver quality, pertinent content I am in.
5
Hudd_421
Posts
656
Joined
2/17/2015
Location
TX US
8/13/2019 8:25am
Took a look at Mr. Info's Facebook...there's a wealth of idiocracy there...talk about "credibility"
8/13/2019 8:29am
Mr. Info wrote:
Let’s leave it here. I didn’t lie, no miss information. Only agenda is telling the truth by anybody to the public is a reflection on their...
Let’s leave it here. I didn’t lie, no miss information. Only agenda is telling the truth by anybody to the public is a reflection on their work and credibility that’s it. If you tell the truth from the beginning you don’t need to go back and change your story. I only saw the introduction but knew the behind the scenes because of it.
I don’t buy my bike because of any magazine or pod test. I ride each one first because I ask friends to ride their bike. Last post on this but knowing the Industry there will be others for other reasons. Just be honest and tell the truth.
Oh just so you know I am not an employee of Glen Helen but I do work for them from time to time. I act as current President of the SoCal OTMX Club and have a regular job outside the industry and have called out others for misunderstandings. Is it that hard to just tell the truth. That’s all everyone asks I think. No one can just lie or misrepresent it’s not fair to anyone.
Have a great week. And God Bless you all.
Bud says to quit posting and get to work - says the first turn looks like a real abortion this morning.
11
zehn
Posts
7859
Joined
1/15/2013
Location
Anchorage, AK US
8/13/2019 8:34am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2019 8:46am
Hudd_421 wrote:
Took a look at Mr. Info's Facebook...there's a wealth of idiocracy there...talk about "credibility"
🙃
8/13/2019 8:38am
Hudd_421 wrote:
Took a look at Mr. Info's Facebook...there's a wealth of idiocracy there...talk about "credibility"
zehn wrote:
🙃
Having a little fun with Mr. Disinfo is one thing, but I don't think doxxing him here on Vital is a good idea.
7
ML512
Posts
16856
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
8/13/2019 8:42am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2019 8:46am
I'd like to see the test done on some different tracks, maybe with some deep loam and deep ruts and some tight turns. The track in...
I'd like to see the test done on some different tracks, maybe with some deep loam and deep ruts and some tight turns. The track in the video seemed like the bikes were pinned in taller gears all the way around. Maybe come east to something a little different. Just me though. Great video.
We did ride three different tracks, just one was the majority of the filming. Glen Helen, Cahuilla and Fox Raceway.

As for East Coast, you're in luck, I believe Keefer is going to do that this year in leu of a West Coast one. Sadly, I didn't have the budge to pull this off. I hope Keefer gets a big draw from his East-based one, he's taking on quite the project with it and I'm super stoked to see the results.
20
TeamGreen
Posts
36601
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
8/13/2019 8:46am
Mr. Info wrote:
Let’s leave it here. I didn’t lie, no miss information. Only agenda is telling the truth by anybody to the public is a reflection on their...
Let’s leave it here. I didn’t lie, no miss information. Only agenda is telling the truth by anybody to the public is a reflection on their work and credibility that’s it. If you tell the truth from the beginning you don’t need to go back and change your story. I only saw the introduction but knew the behind the scenes because of it.
I don’t buy my bike because of any magazine or pod test. I ride each one first because I ask friends to ride their bike. Last post on this but knowing the Industry there will be others for other reasons. Just be honest and tell the truth.
Oh just so you know I am not an employee of Glen Helen but I do work for them from time to time. I act as current President of the SoCal OTMX Club and have a regular job outside the industry and have called out others for misunderstandings. Is it that hard to just tell the truth. That’s all everyone asks I think. No one can just lie or misrepresent it’s not fair to anyone.
Have a great week. And God Bless you all.
Bud says to quit posting and get to work - says the first turn looks like a real abortion this morning.
He’s busy removing the shit from his shoes...
And his sheets.
Laughing
1
ConnorD11
Posts
277
Joined
4/3/2015
Location
Austin, TX US
8/13/2019 8:48am
I'd like to see the test done on some different tracks, maybe with some deep loam and deep ruts and some tight turns. The track in...
I'd like to see the test done on some different tracks, maybe with some deep loam and deep ruts and some tight turns. The track in the video seemed like the bikes were pinned in taller gears all the way around. Maybe come east to something a little different. Just me though. Great video.
ML512 wrote:
We did ride three different tracks, just one was the majority of the filming. Glen Helen, Cahuilla and Fox Raceway. As for East Coast, you're in...
We did ride three different tracks, just one was the majority of the filming. Glen Helen, Cahuilla and Fox Raceway.

As for East Coast, you're in luck, I believe Keefer is going to do that this year in leu of a West Coast one. Sadly, I didn't have the budge to pull this off. I hope Keefer gets a big draw from his East-based one, he's taking on quite the project with it and I'm super stoked to see the results.
Maybe next year once the Chanel takes off! I’m not sure if Mr. Walker uses a gimbal for his GoPro setup but whatever he does makes his videos so fun to watch. His Chanel is super successful because of that.. with all the riding you do I would love to see that same setup on you or your riders while y’all are testing or just riding private tracks like y’all do! Right now your Chanel and Walkers are my favorite so keep up the awesome work!
1

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