THE MASSACRE At Red Bud. Why It Happened. How We Prevent It From Ever Happening Again,

49weasel
Posts
981
Joined
4/12/2013
Location
CANAL WINCHESTER, OH, USA
12/18/2018 6:30pm
pete24 wrote:
is that a 65 elcamino
You should see the car under the cover.
1
Rupert X
Posts
11083
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Newark, OH, USA
12/18/2018 6:46pm
Harv379 wrote:
We could have been 15th? Really, quit bitching people. Our guys gave it what they had. If our guys spent the whole year preparing, and training...
We could have been 15th? Really, quit bitching people. Our guys gave it what they had. If our guys spent the whole year preparing, and training for motocross, I'm sure we'd do better. The $ and time spent in our sport is spent on SX. On a world scale, American SX gets the most appeal and attention IMO which is why our guys train and spend the most effort on being good at it. An SX title means way more than an outdoor title to our guys, and country. Lets have a des nations SX race, there would be no question who comes out on top. But then you guys would still find something to bitch and moan about. And Euro's would complain it's not fair cus they don't practice it. You all need to go ride your motorcycle and have some fun.

Heads up, we've been racing Supercross in America for over 40 years now. In that same time period we;ve won

the MXDN title twenty-two (22) times,

And, your " An SX title means way more than an outdoor title to our guys, and country", try telling that bullshit to David

Bailey. Timmy Ferry, Ricky Johnson, Ricky Carmichael, Ryans' Hughes, Villopoto, Dungey,

5
2
newmann
Posts
24437
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
12/18/2018 7:24pm
newmann wrote:
Hey Rup, I gave you a thumbs up. It all evens out...
Rupert X wrote:
Thanks Newmann, your endorsement means a lot to me, sincerely, Cheers, I don't profess to have all the answers, simply suggesting an alternate path, Willing to...

Thanks Newmann, your endorsement means a lot to me, sincerely, Cheers,

I don't profess to have all the answers, simply suggesting an alternate path,

Willing to listen to any and all recommendations, I've spoken to many that have won Des Nations, i;ve spoken to

C riders and I've listened to Vets and I've heard you all, I'm saying we need change, And most concur.

if we go to Assen with any other inclinations, doing as we've always done, our asses shall be kicked, and we are

not having any of that.

Hey, did ya notice since you got my endorsement that your thumbs ups have gone to 2:1 over the candy asses? Laughing Laughing Laughing

Of course it could have something to do with RC calling out the current crop's half efforts.Woohoo
2
Forty
Posts
3091
Joined
7/27/2009
Location
Saint Paul, MN, USA
12/18/2018 7:25pm
I do agree with Rupert that recently here in the U.S.A. the MXoN has experienced a priority shift, being shuffled to a position that appears unimportant to the current group of race candidates creating a casual attitude towards participating, leave alone winning.

It is unacceptable and I don't like it either, and I respect the fact that Rupert has brought this forward along with ideas for improvement.

It's more than anyone has done, at least publicly, until now.

I agree that new team manager(s) should be installed not because Roger isn't the Man but because sometimes new blood is needed, and this may be one of those times. Rick Johnson is the first guy that comes to my mind.

More than anything the race has to matter again, right now it feels like it doesn't. Those given the privilege to race it should become that race, it should mean everything to them, it has to, there are too many things that can and do go wrong, to approach it in any other way is a plan to fail.

RedBud was a huge kick in the sack, we were caught short and exposed in our own house. To allow that is just f'd up.

Not taking anything away from the individual or team winners, they were amazing rides.

We need to do better. Thanks Rupert, at least people are talking.















5

The Shop

500guy
Posts
12468
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
USA
12/18/2018 7:27pm
I think they were all great options, I just don't think they will get implemented.

Somewhere along the lines the Riders and Teams became more important than the fans and the sport.
2
newmann
Posts
24437
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
12/18/2018 7:51pm
Rupert X wrote:
MXDN Red Bud 2018 – The Massacre We, (the American Team) finished in sixth (6th) place and, the reason we finished in sixth place, was because-...
MXDN Red Bud 2018 – The Massacre

We, (the American Team) finished in sixth (6th) place and, the reason we finished in sixth place, was because- we weren’t properly PREPARED. We picked the right riders, they performed to the best of their abilities, yet, we failed to even make it onto the podium. The Motocross Des Nations has been held three (3) other times on American soil and the Americans have won on each of those occasions, in 1987, 2007 and 2010, respectively. It took forty (40) years to have our first American Des Nations event, now we have had three in the past eleven years and, it appears we are likely to be a more regular, less sporadic home, to this most prestigious event, accordingly, we need to be better prepared for the upcoming September event in Assen, The Netherlands, and, for any future Motocross Des Nations events. The last time the Americans won, was in 2011 and, we have had a total of 22 MXDN victories, though, of late, our performances have been less-than-satisfactory. While we had a string of podium finishes from 2012-2016, 2017 saw the Americans finish in a very disappointing ninth (9th) in England and, the most recent, unacceptable sixth (6th) place overall at RED BUD, Michigan, which is why we MUST pledge to not only reinvent the TEAM that we send to the Motocross Des Nations, we must change the culture, the process and the planning involved, keeping paramount the fact that the MXDN is, by far, the most important race date on everyone’s calendar. Every year.

Currently, the AMA is in charge of this program and, the “TEAM” is in desperate need of an overhaul, after all, somehow we’ve let the folks who took away our WORKS BIKES, removed the best-smelling race-fuels, put 450’s in the stadiums and, STILL won’t allow 250 Two-strokes to compete in the 250cc class, to run America’s Motocross Team ? It is not only preposterous, it’s unacceptable and un-American, and we can no longer permit things to operate in this incompetent manner.



TEAM AMERICA 2019.

1. New name, TEAM AMERICA. New Coaches, new staff, sweeping changes in the way the team is selected, trained and, the manner in which we execute on RACE DAY.
2. Getting the fans involved. We shall let the U.S Motocross fans, by poll, choose the initial six finalists, and eventually the final four honorees that have the distinct privilege of representing their country. ( 3 plus an additional rider ‘alternate”)
3. Do away with the Team Manager, replace with General Manager, Head Coach and Assistant Coaches. For 2019, assemble a mostly retired-military and former military, coaching staff, as well as various ex-Team USA riders as consultants and coaches.
4. Prepare the Team as if it was a military exercise, with precision, promptness, sense of urgency and, attention to detail. Yes, a military style operation.
5. The TEAM will practice and train together after completion of the U.S. Nationals series, promoting brotherhood, camaraderie, esprit de corps and, a common desire to succeed. For one’s country.
6. MXDN Training Camp starts immediately after the last AMA National.
7. Four finalists will compete in last two MXGP races in Turkey and Italy, being stationed and practicing in Lommel, Belgium- between these Grand Prix events.
8. TEAM AMERICA jackets to be awarded on the podium. Only on the podium.
9. TEAM AMERICA pits at Assen to be operated like a war-room. No guests.
10. If a selected rider declines an invitation to the TEAM, he will be disqualified from the first round of the following years’ series, both SX and MX.
11. As an incentive to participate (beyond the honor of serving one’s country), several potential provisions shall be explored and considered; including giving theses honorees first gate picks at first round of Nationals, possibly additional points awarded at beginning of season, perhaps special number-plate recognition.


2019 TIMELINE:


JUNE 22 – WW MX Park, Florida ( 5 races completed), Six (6) Rider Candidates to the MXDN TEAM AMERICA *WATCH LIST* selected and announced. BY FAN VOTE.

AUGUST 17-BUDDS CREEK, Maryland – Four (4) Rider Finalists for the MXDN TEAM AMERICA selected and announced, (including an alternate). BY FAN VOTE.

August 25 thru 5 September – MXDN Training Camp, likely at BAJA ACRES, Michigan, USA

September 8- MXGP Turkey
September 22- MXGP Italy
September 29-ASSEN, Netherlands. RACE DAY.



"Currently, the AMA is in charge of this program and, the “TEAM” is in desperate need of an overhaul, after all, somehow we’ve let the folks who took away our WORKS BIKES, removed the best-smelling race-fuels, put 450’s in the stadiums and, STILL won’t allow 250 Two-strokes to compete in the 250cc class, to run America’s Motocross Team ? It is not only preposterous, it’s unacceptable and un-American, and we can no longer permit things to operate in this incompetent manner."

Rupert spells out what I have been saying for years. The AMA, those who we have supported with our hard earned dollars to "protect our right to ride" have ripped off our heads and shit down our necks and yet no one seems overly concerned. They've screwed our sport over and given out handjobs and more to the OEM's all at the same time. Someone needs to wipe their face....crooks and thieves.

I'm sure someone will come along and say "not that AMA, the other AMA". Then the AMA will come along and say they have nothing to do with Pro Racing and to direct any concerns to Davey at MX Sports( as they have in all my e-mails to them). And then there are those who think we need a 22 race SX series.
10
12/18/2018 8:02pm
Very interesting and spirited delivery. The more I reflected on the discipline and military aspect of the major plan for world dominance the more I liked it and felt it madd petfect sense. Lets face it we used to win and were able to win MXDN based on sheer technical superiority, that gap has been narrowed to nothing now. Lets not forget, Assen will be the Euro's race to lose. The worst tactic possible would be for USA to approach the race in the same way as we approached all the other. I know this will make some people really FLAME, but maybe it's time for a new team managerBlink . After all, there is no such thing as a bad soldier, just bad officers.
2
crusher773
Posts
2029
Joined
12/23/2009
Location
Coweta, OK, USA
12/18/2018 8:05pm
I'm on board I like his thinking. Play for keeps!!
2
bents
Posts
3428
Joined
12/31/2009
Location
CA
Fantasy
12/18/2018 8:15pm
Rupert is correct-just showing up at the race ain't going to cut it any more if you want to win again, be it Assen or anywhere else. A month is too long to be inactive, even though I'm sure they rode and tried to stay in full race condition physically and mentally. Rup's structure is pretty much bang on with respect to what is needed, otherwise he is right-the true definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. A lot has changed since the last time USA won. The only true constant in life is change and the landscape in Pro MX has changed significantly since 2011. Change or die, or in this case, having a great deal of difficulty reaching the top step of the podium again.
4
cable
Posts
1263
Joined
6/11/2008
Location
Rockford, MI, USA
12/18/2018 8:26pm
Do the rules state production tires, or can you run "pre-production" tires?
12/18/2018 8:51pm
This is how I showed up to mxdn. Prepared for war, but witnessed a slaughter.

We are back to back world war champs. Racing should be a walk in the park. I agree with initial post and plan. And I love rule 10.

6th place?!?! THIS MEANS WAR HOOAH!!!


12
1
swtwtwtw
Posts
1287
Joined
4/16/2008
Location
Apple Valley, CA, USA
12/18/2018 8:52pm
Thumbs up! Or we can quit going to this event, ☹️
3
Bearuno
Posts
5657
Joined
6/28/2014
Location
AU
12/18/2018 9:28pm Edited Date/Time 12/18/2018 9:34pm
So, Rupert, who is going to pay for all of that?

How are you going to get more of your riders interested in doing the MXDN? So many pundits here, and in so much of magazine and social media, just always say riders are not interested in MX, with SX being the 'thing' / them only being interested in $$$$$$$. How are you going to change that?

Back to how are you going to pay for your ideas? I see so often that the MXDN is not important because there is no money to be made. And your idea for the team to go to some GPs? Who is going to pay for all of that? And on and on and on.

I remember your ideas for the Nationals, a few years ago. Like your MXDN list, it had some good ideas, but then I remember some really , downright weird ideas of yours - eg: your wanting a group of Female riders to be 'seeded' into the Motos. I've absolutely No problem with Women racing at high levels - if they are capable of doing so. Shayna Texter in AFT ( and Jared Mees missus, Nicole Cheza) show / showed what a talented Woman can do - no 'seeding' without qualifying for those Women needed.

Hell, you might be able to do what Dick Miller ( and others that helped) did with getting the US interest in the MXDN and Trophey Des Nations fired back up, all those years ago, and get a 'refreshed' / 'your' version of a US MXDN Teams prep up and running. Go to it, Rupe - it will take a hell of a lot of work, huge amounts of money, and a very big change in a fair few of your riders ( and Teams ) attitudes to the MXDN - well, MX in general.

Honestly, you, and others, need to get over it. Your riders got beaten. It happens. I'm sure the US Team will win more MXDNs. Without, or With, application of your latest 'manifesto'.

4
2
NorCal 50+
Posts
1455
Joined
5/31/2017
Location
Grass Valley, CA, USA
12/18/2018 9:48pm
I am trying to imagine Team France making the race all about war and celebrating the French military with their victory. That would be about as silly as this idea, which I didn't even think Rupert was serious about at first. War sucks and motocross is not about violent military conflict- don't we get enough of that crap in everyday media, life etc.?
5
DerickYZ
Posts
615
Joined
6/15/2014
Location
Salamanca, NY, USA
12/18/2018 10:19pm
Euros would still smack us.
1
NorCal 50+
Posts
1455
Joined
5/31/2017
Location
Grass Valley, CA, USA
12/18/2018 10:39pm
It was a bit deflating to hear RC blame the loss on a focus on Supercross by US riders and to highlight that riders only race it to avoid getting crap. He didn't opine on whether he thought that attitude on the part of US riders was cool with him. I was hoping to hear him say the loss was total bullshit and the US riders better get it together to preserve the sport we all love.
The overall sense I got from the US moto media apologists for Team USA, (excuse me Team America F___ Yeah) was that this was all a business decision, because SX is where the money is. It's a shitty explanation for an embarrassing loss.
5
wardy
Posts
1794
Joined
3/31/2008
Location
USA
12/18/2018 11:09pm
all that typing.

simple

incentive of gates picks don't buy Porsche's.


pay them to perform. finish well earn more.

blame anyone ya like.

starts and ends with desire to win. this isn't a game these riders do this for a living.


pay them.


1
4
drt410
Posts
2075
Joined
3/18/2017
Location
Boston, MA, USA
12/19/2018 2:51am
Why is this back again... we beat it into the ground months ago. How many more threads? 2 more tomorrow to say the same thing? We have 3 already now since yesterday, whyyyy is this back again....
4
6
David934
Posts
1040
Joined
8/17/2016
Location
CZ
12/19/2018 3:26am
This is how I showed up to mxdn. Prepared for war, but witnessed a slaughter. We are back to back world war champs. Racing should be...
This is how I showed up to mxdn. Prepared for war, but witnessed a slaughter.

We are back to back world war champs. Racing should be a walk in the park. I agree with initial post and plan. And I love rule 10.

6th place?!?! THIS MEANS WAR HOOAH!!!


Don´t bring war into motocross, please..
6
6
12/19/2018 3:36am
Didn’t bother reading it...
1
7
downard254
Posts
4075
Joined
12/10/2012
Location
Bremen, OH, USA
12/19/2018 3:54am
My observation over the years is the loss of what appears to be complete desire to win. Since the B team won in ‘81, and the subsequent enlistment of the A teams a couple years later, there was one consistent, the absolute will to win and finishing second wasn’t an option. These last few years, it seems the will has shifted from the US riders to the European riders. I don’t believe it’s the track design or prep, we still raced SX in the ‘80’s and ‘90’s and still showed domination. But riders like Magoo, Bailey, Barnett, Ward, Stanton, Johnson, Omara. Those guys didn’t know the meaning quit. If they were having a bad day, they persevered and pushed through with sheer determination. I simply don’t see that level of fight from our current crop of riders. Maybe our time is up, the Brits owned the farm for many years, and so have we. Time waits for no man. Not even me.
6
12/19/2018 4:29am
Cancel The monster cup. Use some of that investment $ to properly fund the mxon effort and rider compensation.
3
1
BobKerr
Posts
910
Joined
11/3/2017
Location
Nowheresville, TN, USA
12/19/2018 4:47am
Get rid of stupidcross.
3
6
DPR250R
Posts
2188
Joined
9/14/2006
Location
USA
12/19/2018 5:19am
peltier626 wrote:
Cancel The monster cup. Use some of that investment $ to properly fund the mxon effort and rider compensation.
I would 100% rather watch MXoN over Monster cup if there was an ultimatum thrown down.
3
newmann
Posts
24437
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
12/19/2018 5:23am
This is how I showed up to mxdn. Prepared for war, but witnessed a slaughter. We are back to back world war champs. Racing should be...
This is how I showed up to mxdn. Prepared for war, but witnessed a slaughter.

We are back to back world war champs. Racing should be a walk in the park. I agree with initial post and plan. And I love rule 10.

6th place?!?! THIS MEANS WAR HOOAH!!!


David934 wrote:
Don´t bring war into motocross, please..
Ahhhh yes, a man who loves his country, serving his country and showing up to support his fellow countrymen makes a humorous and supportive post on a moto message board and of course someone here has to find fault with it. Fuggin' amazing.
16
4
Sir
Posts
96
Joined
9/17/2018
Location
USA
12/19/2018 6:35am
It needs someone in charge of US motocross who is willing to go head to head with Feld and supercross. Someone willing to start the National season earlier and encroach onto the supercross timetable. If that means the big teams don't start the Nationals from the first round because they're still competing in supercross then so be it. At least it would give some smaller teams/privateers a chance for extra exposure until the big guns arrive.

Feld want to increase the number of supercross rounds which if allowed will diminish the Nationals even more. But maybe that's what the teams and riders really want - where it's a year long supercross championship and motocross is left for the amateurs. That would be a sad turn of events if that became reality.
1
TeamFlannel
Posts
304
Joined
9/23/2018
Location
Ellsworth, IL, USA
12/19/2018 6:41am
Appreciate your enthusiasm and passion for turning the tides of change at the most prestigious Moto-X race in the world?? Thanks for motivating me to markup this pic one of our crew sent me after MXDN, it’s the first thing that came to mind when I initially saw it??
4
kb228
Posts
6153
Joined
1/31/2018
Location
Mansfield, OH, USA
12/19/2018 6:49am
Cant believe us americans need to win mxon to think theyre the best in the world. Were the best in the world because were americans. Duh
2
11
H4L
Posts
2595
Joined
3/18/2016
Location
USA
12/19/2018 6:51am Edited Date/Time 12/19/2018 6:53am
That was a thought out thread / post & seems to have been brewing in your mind for a while to allow the creative juices to start flowing.

A suggestion would be to have RC4 at the helm since he's someone who knows a little about handing someone their A$$ on American or foreign soil...
3
4
12/19/2018 6:57am
kb228 wrote:
Cant believe us americans need to win mxon to think theyre the best in the world. Were the best in the world because were americans. Duh
And where did your ancestors come from?
3
3

Post a reply to: THE MASSACRE At Red Bud. Why It Happened. How We Prevent It From Ever Happening Again,

The Latest