Justin Hill - Its Definitely NOT The Bike Right?

BobPA
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1/14/2018 11:56am
How would you explain his fastest qualifying lap at A1?
How many points did he score for qualifying? Practice means nothing bro...
1/14/2018 11:58am
MXD wrote:
Go rewatch that qualifying session and you will see that he took a line that you would never take during the race. He cut about 15...
Go rewatch that qualifying session and you will see that he took a line that you would never take during the race. He cut about 15 feet of race track out before the finish line and had to roll it. He was down the leaderboard prior to doing that on the very last lap of qualifying. It was a line that no one else took as far as I could see. They even made mention of it in the broadcast during race day live.
I watched all that qualifying and all the riders were doing that. They'd jump the finish double to start their flying lap and then at the...
I watched all that qualifying and all the riders were doing that. They'd jump the finish double to start their flying lap and then at the end of the lap cutting inside and rolling the double. It was no secret, they all had the same idea, including the 450 class.

What else can you come up with?
MXD wrote:
I didn't see everybody do it and neither did Blair and Holley (since they went out of their way to harp on it). But you seem...
I didn't see everybody do it and neither did Blair and Holley (since they went out of their way to harp on it). But you seem to be the expert so I'll just rely on your opinion. Forget what every person and expert who would actually know, says.

Fuckin' internet. I should know better.
Go watch again for yourself.
McElrath uses said line, on camera just twenty seconds before Hill does. Also you will see Savatgy, Nicoletti & (one other?) use it, on camera. If those three are seen using it, do you think the rest of the field are oblivious to it?

Furthermore, if, IF, IF you were correct in Hill having not used that line until the very last lap, you do realise he was just 0.2 seconds off of the leader WITHOUT using that line?

It aint the bike!

F'kin internet experts... I sometimes wonder if some of you have eyes..
1/14/2018 12:07pm
How would you explain his fastest qualifying lap at A1?
BobPA wrote:
How many points did he score for qualifying? Practice means nothing bro...
No I get that, only the races count. But the point is, if the bike wasn't capable, it wouldn't have gone faster than the rest of them for 1 lap.
Bramlett321
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1/14/2018 12:13pm
Bike Rat wrote:
That pass by Plessinger showed the weakness of the slowzukie
I wasn’t wanting to agree with you on this but when I saw that and AP seriously outweighs Hill, it put some serious negative light on the bike.

The Shop

ktmdan
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1/14/2018 12:20pm
Maybe he should put the guitar away and stop posting those douchebag guitar videos
Maybe he should put the guitar away and stop posting those douchebag guitar videos
DPW wrote:
the alice and chains cover sounded good to me
ktmdan wrote:
Yeah it sounded fine. I think it's just a bit douchey to make a quality recording of yourself playing someone else's song and posting it on...
Yeah it sounded fine. I think it's just a bit douchey to make a quality recording of yourself playing someone else's song and posting it on media. Guess that's just the musician in me.
I just realized this sounds pretty hater like and I probably wouldn't say it to his face... I retract it. Hope he does well and is enjoying himself.
1/14/2018 12:50pm
I wasn’t wanting to agree with you on this but when I saw that and AP seriously outweighs Hill, it put some serious negative light on...
I wasn’t wanting to agree with you on this but when I saw that and AP seriously outweighs Hill, it put some serious negative light on the bike.
Hill is stockier than Plessinger. He's been quoted in a video saying he weighs 175
BobPA
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1/14/2018 1:12pm
Hill is stockier than Plessinger. He's been quoted in a video saying he weighs 175
Hill is stockier than Plessinger. He's been quoted in a video saying he weighs 175
175 in his wildest dreams.
pmshortt2
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1/14/2018 2:23pm
Hill is stockier than Plessinger. He's been quoted in a video saying he weighs 175
Hill is stockier than Plessinger. He's been quoted in a video saying he weighs 175
BobPA wrote:
175 in his wildest dreams.
No one in the 250 class weighs above 170 sooooo....
SoCalMX70
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1/14/2018 2:26pm
Still wondering how anyone could possibly think it's the bike. Me and the 4 other people sitting around me last night could see the issue in Hill's body language. He's cruising out there, at best. As my high school football coach would say, he's "sick, lame, or lazy!"
1/14/2018 2:34pm Edited Date/Time 1/14/2018 2:50pm
Hill is stockier than Plessinger. He's been quoted in a video saying he weighs 175
Hill is stockier than Plessinger. He's been quoted in a video saying he weighs 175
BobPA wrote:
175 in his wildest dreams.
pmshortt2 wrote:
No one in the 250 class weighs above 170 sooooo....
Idk I guess he's fronting when he says it in this video. (Time stamped @2:14)
malachi177
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1/14/2018 2:43pm Edited Date/Time 1/14/2018 2:45pm
This^^...it's not the bike's power. He was 2nd into the first corner in his heat race. He sucked in the whoops and lost spots there. In the main he got a bad start and that crash on the outside of the first corner with 3 or 4 riders slowed him even more..he then continued to suck in the whoops. His rear end looked waaaay off going through them. He wasn't the only rider struggling in them last night people. Both 250 and 450 riders had issues with both sections.

...also this isn't new for Hill. Like his brother, training isn't a big priority for them. He won the title last year but if it wasn't for Shane's pumpkin blowing up...the title wouldn't be his. Shane was faster last year.
mb60
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1/14/2018 2:47pm
The guy made a bad decision to go to JGR. Not saying it's the bike but the only one that motivated him was Mitch. He might be a better 450 rider regardless.
mx216
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1/14/2018 3:19pm
MXD wrote:
I didn't see everybody do it and neither did Blair and Holley (since they went out of their way to harp on it). But you seem...
I didn't see everybody do it and neither did Blair and Holley (since they went out of their way to harp on it). But you seem to be the expert so I'll just rely on your opinion. Forget what every person and expert who would actually know, says.

Fuckin' internet. I should know better.
Not trying to be a dick and say your're wrong but, you are. It happens at any event where the finish line is set up that way, and is a tactic all of the teams and riders use during qualifying when the track permits.
Flip109
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1/14/2018 3:24pm
Like someone mentioned, 3-4th losing inches here and there, okay could be partly the bike. 10th? no. I’d say it’s more him than the bike all day. His goofy ass was jacking around mid pack all summer with arguably the best 250f in the biz. Can’t believe he got that contract after that. He’s just on easy street and it ain’t gonna get any easier. Was really looking foreword to him tearing it up on the zook also. Bummer.
1/14/2018 4:03pm
btroxler wrote:
If you go back and look the RMZ250 engine is almost 6HP less than the KTM250SXF in stock form. That's nearly 14% in the hole from...
If you go back and look the RMZ250 engine is almost 6HP less than the KTM250SXF in stock form. That's nearly 14% in the hole from the start.

It would cost probably $3-4K to get the RMZ250 to match the stock KTM HP, now imagine a KTM rider spends $3-4K on his engine getting blueprinted he is still going to be 5-6HP more than the Suzuki is even capable off.

Also the bike's suspension just doesn't look right, not sure if they are trying something different but sounds like he needs to send his suspension to PC and let them build it for him if he even wants a chance to be competitive.

We all know the boy can ride.

You really think JGR can't get an engine to make HP? I need some of what you're smoking...really badly
TRAVO 67
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1/14/2018 8:11pm
btroxler wrote:
If you go back and look the RMZ250 engine is almost 6HP less than the KTM250SXF in stock form. That's nearly 14% in the hole from...
If you go back and look the RMZ250 engine is almost 6HP less than the KTM250SXF in stock form. That's nearly 14% in the hole from the start.

It would cost probably $3-4K to get the RMZ250 to match the stock KTM HP, now imagine a KTM rider spends $3-4K on his engine getting blueprinted he is still going to be 5-6HP more than the Suzuki is even capable off.

Also the bike's suspension just doesn't look right, not sure if they are trying something different but sounds like he needs to send his suspension to PC and let them build it for him if he even wants a chance to be competitive.

We all know the boy can ride.

You really think JGR can't get an engine to make HP? I need some of what you're smoking...really badly
These guys are nuts saying the bike doesn't have power it's a dam factory backed bike. That bike has anything he wants it to have .
1/14/2018 8:48pm
As others have mentioned bike doesn't look to good. He can probably muscle it around for a few quick laps in qualifying but can't do that for the whole race.
seth505
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1/15/2018 12:18am
No I get that, only the races count. But the point is, if the bike wasn't capable, it wouldn't have gone faster than the rest of...
No I get that, only the races count. But the point is, if the bike wasn't capable, it wouldn't have gone faster than the rest of them for 1 lap.
^^^
Turbojez
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1/15/2018 1:11am
Maybe Hill sucks at setting up the bike? I mean, there are some riders who are really good with providing feedback about their bikes, and there are those who don't.
If it's the latter, it would explain why he's good on one weekend (when the bike setup fits the track), and really bad on the other (when it doesn't). 2nd place off the start shows that the bike isn't lacking in horsepower. JGR wouldn't put an underpowered bike out there.
aees
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1/15/2018 1:37am
Holtslayer wrote:
As others have mentioned bike doesn't look to good. He can probably muscle it around for a few quick laps in qualifying but can't do that...
As others have mentioned bike doesn't look to good. He can probably muscle it around for a few quick laps in qualifying but can't do that for the whole race.
Exactly. Look at Tomac last year, quick in qualification for first 3-4 races, but 6-10 guy in heats. All bike setup.

One thing to put down one fast lap on a fresh track, compared to 20 laps completely broken down track. Armpump and poor suspension settings generally dont show itself until main event.
RussB
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1/15/2018 1:38am
I don't believe power is the issue (if the bike is even that significantly down on power).
To put it into perspective, I don't remember Stewart having any issues with his KX125 when he was smashing riders on 250f's left right and center, and you can almost guarantee that bike had less HP than the competition.

I don't understand why the set up is that far off. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Hill is using the same suspension as many before him have used (just with different coatings). Anderson, Wharton, Cunningham etc have all done well on the RMZ250 in previous years using a Showa A Kit set up. There's bound to be a solid base SX setting for that bike, so either Hill is asking for something drastically different or the RG3 boys have got it quite wrong.

I agree its probably not the fastest or lightest bike but its top 5 capable. So to put the blame solely on the bike is unfair.
1/15/2018 1:58am
SoCalMX70 wrote:
Still wondering how anyone could possibly think it's the bike. Me and the 4 other people sitting around me last night could see the issue in...
Still wondering how anyone could possibly think it's the bike. Me and the 4 other people sitting around me last night could see the issue in Hill's body language. He's cruising out there, at best. As my high school football coach would say, he's "sick, lame, or lazy!"
I agree, he does look like he is pretty much cruising. Doesn't appear to be pushing at all!
mxjon454
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1/15/2018 5:39pm
Motofinne wrote:
The fact that some of you are using 450 RMZ results as "evidence" that the 250 is not a problem is saying a lot about your...
The fact that some of you are using 450 RMZ results as "evidence" that the 250 is not a problem is saying a lot about your knowledge.

I'm not saying that it's 100% the bikes fault. But he had an uphill battle from day one because of that bike.

*i'm not a Hill fan
How would you explain his fastest qualifying lap at A1?
Because hes by himself and starts the lap with momentum. When hes around a bunch of riders hes not going to put in a super fast lap lol but like o said if hes by himself with no one around he can throw down a heater. Like a lot of the other racers out there.
KurtJ99
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1/15/2018 6:23pm
I don't see Hill making passes or adapting to difficult tracks in general. Top qualifying at A1 on an easier track, but Houston had unconventional rhythm and whoop sections that he didn't adapt too. Plessinger with his off road experience probably adapted to the track better than most and then overcame a bad start and rode aggressively on a changing track.
I think JGR could take any OEM and make it as fast as anyone's. However I think PC has experience that JGR can't match in building a better bike.
If Hill was on a PC Kawi I think he would still be about where he is. Perhaps a little better but not ahead of Savatgy or AC.
malachi177
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1/16/2018 4:38pm
JGR's comment today stated that Hill crashed during practice and do to the first turn mess off the start in the main he was hit and lost his rear brake for the entire moto. Just some insight for the idiots that jump on the bike right away saying it has no power.
Musky
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1/16/2018 8:52pm
jeffro503 wrote:
I don't wanna bag on a bike , but that thing is a gutless turd.
The bike's old their still building off of izzi's bike from nine years ago. IMO should have stayed at PC.
JJO741
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Fantasy
1/17/2018 2:47pm Edited Date/Time 1/17/2018 2:51pm
This is just my opinion, but I feel that it is a combination of both the bike just not getting the right settings yet and Hill getting things figured out personally.

It is not all bike, but Suzuki has had a lot of problems with their 250 program for a while.

2011- This was the year where Hewitt's team became the official 250 effort for Suzuki and the team struggled all year. There was a Matthes Podcast race review when Ping was on the show still and they were discussing why the team was struggling so much and Ping was saying that their bikes lacked a little bit of motor compared to the other teams.

2012- Apparently Suzuki is not supporting Hewitt's team anymore. They make improvement's and Wharton is able to win a race in Indy, but they still have issues throughout the year. Davalos DNF'd first 2 races because of electrical problems.

2013- Team goes completely in house and bikes are finally on par with competition but Hewitt's team switches to KTM at end of the year and Anderson wins the 250 West title the following year.

2014- No team

2015- No team

2016- Motorcycle Superstore team gets support but seems to struggle. Dirtcandy/MAD racing gets full Yosh support and have sweet looking bikes. Dirtcandy team is a total shit show. Baker gets booted two races into the season, Bisceglia struggles as the bike again seems underpowered compared to the competition and eventually moves to the 450 during outdoors. Luke Clout gets a 2 year contract and replaces Baker, but struggles in the outdoors. Dirtcandy team folds.

2017- JGR is now given the reigns for the 250 program and have Bisceglia and Phil. Both have injuries. Cunningham fills in and has decent results here and there. Did anyone ride the 250 outdoors for JGR?

If there any factual errors above, I apologize. This is going off my memory and the research I have found so far.

Again, it's not all the bike. For the consumer, it's just fine. It may not be as exciting as the other brands though. I rode the 2011 RMZ250 and I thought it was a great bike. Good motor at the time compared to its peers and handled well. They haven't really changed a whole lot except now the chassis and forks have changed and it doesn't seem like it was for the better unfortunately. In pro racing, Suzuki seems to be a tad behind the competition for their 250 program. I think the 450 is just fine and it has had a lot of success, especially outdoors.

JGR has done a lot of work to get the bikes power needed and I don't think that is the issue right now for them. I hope they are able to get it figured out and they find some success. I have a feeling Decotis is going to do well on the East for them.
KirkChandler
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1/17/2018 2:58pm
The age of the platform has to be a factor. How similar is the 2018 to the bike Dungey won on in 2009? Did they add fuel injection? Motor tweaks? Suspension tweaks? Chassis has been the same forever.

In other eras of this sport a bike that is 5-7 or even 9 years old would be laughed at. Show up in 1985 on a 1979 platform bike. Or in 1989 on a 1985. Or in 1995 on a 1989. You would be smoked and there would be no question about why.

Justin signed the deal looking forward to the 450 class in year 2.
1/17/2018 3:05pm
RussB wrote:
I don't believe power is the issue (if the bike is even that significantly down on power). To put it into perspective, I don't remember Stewart...
I don't believe power is the issue (if the bike is even that significantly down on power).
To put it into perspective, I don't remember Stewart having any issues with his KX125 when he was smashing riders on 250f's left right and center, and you can almost guarantee that bike had less HP than the competition.

I don't understand why the set up is that far off. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Hill is using the same suspension as many before him have used (just with different coatings). Anderson, Wharton, Cunningham etc have all done well on the RMZ250 in previous years using a Showa A Kit set up. There's bound to be a solid base SX setting for that bike, so either Hill is asking for something drastically different or the RG3 boys have got it quite wrong.

I agree its probably not the fastest or lightest bike but its top 5 capable. So to put the blame solely on the bike is unfair.
Stupid comparison.

Stewart was miles ahead in the skill department against his competitors compared to Hill and his competitors.

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