Vital MX Poll: Should Chad Reed Receive a Penalty?

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Vital MX Poll
Chad Reed
St. Louis
Supercross 2017
Ryan Dungey
Monster Energy Supercross
ACBraap
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ACBraap 4/2/2017 10:18am
4/2/2017 10:18am
51xc wrote:
dungey surely won't loose the championship because of sitting 2 laps behind reed. tomac 8 : dungey 2
Nah, but fans lost the chance to watch a race.

But the name douche douche was coined, so we got that.
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dkg 4/2/2017 10:22am
4/2/2017 10:22am
pilotdude wrote:
From my post is the other thread: From the AMA Rulebook: 4.17 Flags and Lights It is the rider’s responsibility to be aware of their surroundings...
From my post is the other thread:

From the AMA Rulebook:
4.17 Flags and Lights
It is the rider’s responsibility to be aware of their surroundings
at all times while on track. Safety is a main priority and the
riders must obey all official signals and directions given to
them. Any rider failing to do so may be penalized.
a. Solid Blue Flag:
1. Indicates you are about to be overtaken by faster riders.
2. When conditions allow, move out of the fast line.
3. Hold your line (don’t ride erratically) and do not impede the
faster riders progress.
4. Riders disregarding the blue flag may be black-flagged at
the discretion of Race Director.

Longtime fan of Reed, however:

1. Reed obviously and deliberately violated the rules as a payback to Dungey.

2. The Race Director, having failed spectacularly at exercising his discretion and black flagging Reed, should now issue a ruling disqualifying Reed from the race after the fact.

3. Reed should not be allowed to race Seattle an example to other riders for allowing his desire to give Dungey payback to become more important than interfering in the championship fight happening around him.

4. I believe that even if Reed had not deliberately and obviously interfered with Dungey, Tomac would have ramped it back up and kept the lead. This is completely irrelevant to what needs to be done with Reed, however.

5. Given the weak and inconsistent record of the officials in supercross in implementing the rules of the sport, I would be shocked if anything is done to Reed with regard to this incident.
That about sums it up. When does the sport get a race director that is capable of dealing with infractions of the rule book. IMHO, the enforcement/penalty provisions need to be separated from the race director. The race director is too personally involved with all of the teams, atheletes, management of the event to neutrally apple the rule book. Not sure a ban at Seattle is appropriate, but something needs to be done to put everyone on notice that this stuff isn't going to be tolerated.
1st Amendment 4/2/2017 10:34am
4/2/2017 10:34am
miscarriage420 wrote:
Looks like there's going to be some beef in the AMA world. I'm happy with Reed. Dungey talked smack because he is an arrogant douche and...
Looks like there's going to be some beef in the AMA world. I'm happy with Reed. Dungey talked smack because he is an arrogant douche and Reed set that ass straight. Can't hate on being given a fat dose of hater medicine. Every time Dungey doesn't make 1st place he has some lame excuse as to why. Lets not forget he wouldn't be the reigning champ if Ryan Villapoto would not have wrecked hard last year ending his career giving Dungey the cup. Kudos to Reed! And congrats to Tomac. Looks like Dungey has some sore band wagon fans, hahahahaha.
Wow! I must of missed the part where RV was racing last year. SMH you people are coming out the woodwork today.
Harry Backmon 4/2/2017 10:42am
4/2/2017 10:42am
miscarriage420 wrote:
Looks like there's going to be some beef in the AMA world. I'm happy with Reed. Dungey talked smack because he is an arrogant douche and...
Looks like there's going to be some beef in the AMA world. I'm happy with Reed. Dungey talked smack because he is an arrogant douche and Reed set that ass straight. Can't hate on being given a fat dose of hater medicine. Every time Dungey doesn't make 1st place he has some lame excuse as to why. Lets not forget he wouldn't be the reigning champ if Ryan Villapoto would not have wrecked hard last year ending his career giving Dungey the cup. Kudos to Reed! And congrats to Tomac. Looks like Dungey has some sore band wagon fans, hahahahaha.
Bro, what on earth are you talking about? Did your grip come loose?

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miketherider 4/2/2017 11:05am
4/2/2017 11:05am
The nature of the rule suggests if you are really impeding the rider's progress, you should receive the black flag. That didn't happen.

If the FIM/AMA were to go post-hoc and say "well, we should have black flagged you then, and consider any action based on how you would have reacted" is a bit...shady.

Do I think Chad should have moved off the main race line, like Cooper Webb did and the other 9+ guys that had to, and let the battle continue another day? Yep. Should the AMA/FIM make a decision after they had a chance to penalize properly during the race? Nope. That's an issue with Gallagher, assuming he makes that decision during the race to black flag a rider.

Why should Dungey have to risk his title hopes by punting a 16th place guy off the track? Look at Savagty; incidental contact with a lapper, brake lever gets screwed up, has to drop 2-3 seconds behind. Dungey goes for the punt method, slows him down, Musquin could catch up, and at worst, CR goes back after him, and now you have a real major situation.
TripleFive 4/2/2017 11:25am
4/2/2017 11:25am
miketherider wrote:
The nature of the rule suggests if you are really impeding the rider's progress, you should receive the black flag. That didn't happen. If the FIM/AMA...
The nature of the rule suggests if you are really impeding the rider's progress, you should receive the black flag. That didn't happen.

If the FIM/AMA were to go post-hoc and say "well, we should have black flagged you then, and consider any action based on how you would have reacted" is a bit...shady.

Do I think Chad should have moved off the main race line, like Cooper Webb did and the other 9+ guys that had to, and let the battle continue another day? Yep. Should the AMA/FIM make a decision after they had a chance to penalize properly during the race? Nope. That's an issue with Gallagher, assuming he makes that decision during the race to black flag a rider.

Why should Dungey have to risk his title hopes by punting a 16th place guy off the track? Look at Savagty; incidental contact with a lapper, brake lever gets screwed up, has to drop 2-3 seconds behind. Dungey goes for the punt method, slows him down, Musquin could catch up, and at worst, CR goes back after him, and now you have a real major situation.
Be careful criticizing Gallagher on here, it's a click-able offense.
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8tensolutions 4/2/2017 11:28am
4/2/2017 11:28am
miketherider wrote:
The nature of the rule suggests if you are really impeding the rider's progress, you should receive the black flag. That didn't happen. If the FIM/AMA...
The nature of the rule suggests if you are really impeding the rider's progress, you should receive the black flag. That didn't happen.

If the FIM/AMA were to go post-hoc and say "well, we should have black flagged you then, and consider any action based on how you would have reacted" is a bit...shady.

Do I think Chad should have moved off the main race line, like Cooper Webb did and the other 9+ guys that had to, and let the battle continue another day? Yep. Should the AMA/FIM make a decision after they had a chance to penalize properly during the race? Nope. That's an issue with Gallagher, assuming he makes that decision during the race to black flag a rider.

Why should Dungey have to risk his title hopes by punting a 16th place guy off the track? Look at Savagty; incidental contact with a lapper, brake lever gets screwed up, has to drop 2-3 seconds behind. Dungey goes for the punt method, slows him down, Musquin could catch up, and at worst, CR goes back after him, and now you have a real major situation.
This. The rule says if the rider is found in violation, the black flag is the penalty. How can they now decide to fine him or suspend him?
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TeamGreen 4/2/2017 11:30am
4/2/2017 11:30am
ML512 wrote:
Depending upon how his contract is written, benching him for the remaining races might actually affect his paycheck from his team. This depends of course if...
Depending upon how his contract is written, benching him for the remaining races might actually affect his paycheck from his team. This depends of course if being benched works the same as injury clauses in his contract and if he has said clauses in his contract (if you miss X amount of races, X amount of dollars is cut from your contract pay). But, that's a bunch of ifs depending upon his contract and a possible penalty triggering any existing clauses.
Jt$ wrote:
So you're saying they might hand out one of the most severe penalties in the history of SX (suspending for 4 races) for disregarding a blue...
So you're saying they might hand out one of the most severe penalties in the history of SX (suspending for 4 races) for disregarding a blue flag? Alrighty, just wanted to clarify.
I would only suspend for 4 races IF his football was under-inflated.
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Moto_Geek 4/2/2017 11:30am
4/2/2017 11:30am Edited Date/Time 4/2/2017 11:31am
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rancor19 4/2/2017 11:36am
4/2/2017 11:36am
Late to the party and read nothing but the OP.

Had to vote 'no' because:
"4. Riders disregarding the blue flag may be black-flagged at
the discretion of Race Director."

He should've been black-flagged, yes.
ledger
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ledger 4/2/2017 11:54am
4/2/2017 11:54am
Reed will come out swinging with a "Immature" buttpatch.
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Sodipop 4/2/2017 12:28pm
4/2/2017 12:28pm
So what are the known reasons for why Chad did this?

So far we have:
1) Felt Dungey moved over him on the start last week
2) Dungey whined on the podium after the heat race

JT seems to be alluding to more. Anyone know what it is?
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Slosh 112 4/2/2017 12:37pm
4/2/2017 12:37pm
Lol what a joke. you guys should start your own hate club for your least favourite riders...
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puttputt 4/2/2017 12:47pm
4/2/2017 12:47pm
It was an unfortunate deal, seeming as I've never been in either of their shoes it's hard to say what they were thinking and how fast there having to process those thoughts, all while trying to focus on there lines. BUT I wish it had of gone differently so that we could of had the chance to see what if anything dungey had for tomac. Bummer for sure
miketherider 4/2/2017 12:47pm
4/2/2017 12:47pm
TripleFive wrote:
Be careful criticizing Gallagher on here, it's a click-able offense.
I'm not criticizing Gallagher except to say that a situation presented itself, and they decided not to throw the black flag. I am fine with that.

But, if they go post-hoc with the "well, you did violate the nature of the rule though..." the only blame is back at the race management. The Anderson situation with the punch was handled on the spot; he went by the book, laid the hammer down, and everyone moved on. Same should be applied here, IMO, not a post-analysis.

A lot of interpretation in this scenario; tons of people being lapped at the time, rough track, and Reed safely "maintained his line" and didn't ride dirty per say, but he knew damn well there was only 1 fast line around that track.
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RUTCITY 4/2/2017 12:49pm
4/2/2017 12:49pm
Blatantly detrimental to any rider in any championship.
Not cool Reedy
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agn5009 4/2/2017 12:56pm
4/2/2017 12:56pm
miketherider wrote:
The nature of the rule suggests if you are really impeding the rider's progress, you should receive the black flag. That didn't happen. If the FIM/AMA...
The nature of the rule suggests if you are really impeding the rider's progress, you should receive the black flag. That didn't happen.

If the FIM/AMA were to go post-hoc and say "well, we should have black flagged you then, and consider any action based on how you would have reacted" is a bit...shady.

Do I think Chad should have moved off the main race line, like Cooper Webb did and the other 9+ guys that had to, and let the battle continue another day? Yep. Should the AMA/FIM make a decision after they had a chance to penalize properly during the race? Nope. That's an issue with Gallagher, assuming he makes that decision during the race to black flag a rider.

Why should Dungey have to risk his title hopes by punting a 16th place guy off the track? Look at Savagty; incidental contact with a lapper, brake lever gets screwed up, has to drop 2-3 seconds behind. Dungey goes for the punt method, slows him down, Musquin could catch up, and at worst, CR goes back after him, and now you have a real major situation.
8tensolutions wrote:
This. The rule says if the rider is found in violation, the black flag is the penalty. How can they now decide to fine him or...
This. The rule says if the rider is found in violation, the black flag is the penalty. How can they now decide to fine him or suspend him?
I don't think he should be suspended and let's be honest, he won't be. I think the appropriate violation would be to take away Chads 16th place finish and points because that would be what happened if he had been black flagged anyways. Yes, he finished 16th and won't lose too many points or whatever but I think it's the only appropriate penalty at this point.

One thing that concerns me about this however is the fact that Reed clearly retaliated for such minor comments. THAT is what sets the old man off, really? Chad is a hypocrite. Chad would absolutely be up in arms if some 16th place lapper did that to him. I don't care what Chad used to be and how many races Chad has won in the past. We're talking about 2017, not 2010.
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Park Boys 4/2/2017 1:05pm
4/2/2017 1:05pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2017 1:09pm
Chad has always been an easy guy to not like, This is just another example. Nothing will be done to him.

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BShoe
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BShoe 4/2/2017 1:10pm
4/2/2017 1:10pm
Chad inherited old man of the sport by virtue of being the old man of the sport . Ferry , La Rocco , Windham have all been there . At this point in ones career he should follows the rules . Fans , friends , family are finding it hard to figure this out .
miketherider 4/2/2017 1:20pm
4/2/2017 1:20pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2017 1:27pm
Dungey was, on average, 3.5+ seconds faster before between laps 2-15 before Dungey got behind him.

Dungey lap average = 50.92, Reed lap average = 54.424

Laps 16-19 (I believe he made the pass on lap 20 OR midway on lap 19; timing seems to show that, but I have to go back and count laps on the recording), Dungey now 0.77 seconds faster per lap, on average. Reed actually faster on lap 18.

Dungey lap average = 53.2845, Reed lap average = 54.056

During that same period in laps 16-19, Tomac is 52.07 per lap average.

For anyone suggesting Reed "picked up the pace", yeah, no. Dungey ran a 52.842 on lap 20, the one after he passed Reed, then laid off, and eventually Tomac laid off the final 3 laps.

If your lap times drop by 2.3 seconds per lap, on average, after coming up on someone, black flag the other rider. Again, I don't agree with throwing the book at Chad post-analysis because I don't agree with interpreting the rule book in grey areas and he did not at any point do anything dangerous like cross-rutting or brake-checking going into corners.

To me, someone in race control has to see that and say "that's not right." With that said, I am not an AMA/FIM expert on whether Gallagher is the only guy or if other people provide information to him. Not blaming him, but looking at the lap times, it doesn't shine well on Chad or those in charge of managing race control.

This is all in a vacuum, I will admit, not a sub 4-minute time span where certainly decisions may be hard to make. I am a Reed fan, but those numbers do not reflect well on the "Chad sped up" argument.
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Bineano 4/2/2017 1:20pm
4/2/2017 1:20pm
No penalty, but come on Chad...you have more class than that.
Zero reason (that I'm aware of) to pull that.
And even if there IS reason, stay classy Man...
My Wife even commented "Why is he doing that?".
We are huge 22 fans by the way, that dropped the bar a pinch :-(
TbonesPop 4/2/2017 1:24pm
4/2/2017 1:24pm
I'd like to see Dungey with a Douche Douche butt patch next week. THAT would be classic.
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TeamGreen 4/2/2017 1:34pm
4/2/2017 1:34pm
TbonesPop wrote:
I'd like to see Dungey with a Douche Douche butt patch next week. THAT would be classic.
"I got the Deuce-Deuce in the trunk of my car..."
harescrambled 4/2/2017 1:40pm
4/2/2017 1:40pm
Berm wrote:
I said no, not because I didn't think what he did was wrong, but because the penalty is outlined in the rules as black flagged during...
I said no, not because I didn't think what he did was wrong, but because the penalty is outlined in the rules as black flagged during the race at the discretion of the race director. We shouldn't be imposing penalties that aren't already laid out in the rulebook. The time to penalize him was during the race.
There we go! You can only impose a penalty that's laid out in the rulebook. Therefore, the window of opportunity has passed to penalize Reed. Also, there's the contradiction in the rulebook....the rules say to hold your line, and not impede a faster rider. The rules also say to move over "when conditions allow" I'm certain Reed would argue that he did move over as soon as conditions allowed. Who is going to argue with that? A referee who has never ridden on a supercross track like that at the speeds Reed was riding? That being said, I do think it was a dick move, but no one got hurt, Dungey still managed to podium, and perhaps gained some valuable knowledge
harescrambled 4/2/2017 1:50pm
4/2/2017 1:50pm
ML512 wrote:
Depending upon how his contract is written, benching him for the remaining races might actually affect his paycheck from his team. This depends of course if...
Depending upon how his contract is written, benching him for the remaining races might actually affect his paycheck from his team. This depends of course if being benched works the same as injury clauses in his contract and if he has said clauses in his contract (if you miss X amount of races, X amount of dollars is cut from your contract pay). But, that's a bunch of ifs depending upon his contract and a possible penalty triggering any existing clauses.
Bottom line...if the AMA/FIM levies a penalty at this point, Reed and possibly Factory Yamaha take the AMA/FIM to court and win based on deviating from the published rulebook. Do you think they'll take the financial risk? I doubt it. We also have to remember that historically speaking, rulings from the AMA/FIM have not been consistent, which adds to the risk if they penalize Reed
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yorkts 4/2/2017 2:01pm
4/2/2017 2:01pm
The answer is simple, the rules are the same rules the cronies on capital hill live by, their own.


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brendawg 4/2/2017 2:22pm
4/2/2017 2:22pm


theonlinelegend 4/2/2017 2:24pm
4/2/2017 2:24pm
A fine and probation until the end of the season seems sufficient. Dungey handled himself the right way after the race. He still has a 4pt lead. And with 4 races there's no reason to make it a gigantic issue that could become more costly. Keep calm and carry on.
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093544 4/2/2017 2:32pm
4/2/2017 2:32pm
Reed should have been "Black Flagged" Since he wasn't, he should be disqualified for next week.

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