Looking at pictures from DIRT BIKE magazine online feature "Fant Files" I noticed a pretty radical frame modification by Team Honda.
Team Honda has added/welded on an additional plate of aluminum near the head pipe area.
Also of note, is the use of small bead/tack welds around the plate vs a continuous bead of weld. I am not a welder so it would be interesting to know why this would be the case (weight, strength, rigidity)?
In the above picture you can also see special numbers added to the head pipe..
Is this frame modification done by USA Team Honda or do these frames come directly from HRC Japan?
Overall, this is a big (and legal, AMA allows material to be ADDED not REMOVED) modification in an obvious area that is very unusual for secretive Honda HRC.
Between this and the custom air box ML512 covered in pit bits honda is going all out on these bikes
Pit Bits later today will cover that frame modification along with the interview I did with Chase Sexton, also coming out today.
Hey ml.
Do the factory bikes run off the production line frames?
Or are there frames hand made?
production frames, they can add material but can't take away
The Shop
Free shipping: VITALMX
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
Michael, you're killing it lately man. On top of your shit! And good eye to the OP on this one!
We still want to know about the wire/sensor going into the front of the ignition cover on the CRF250R.
Thanks for your diligence Michael.
Good catch mxav8r. I've seen similar stiffening plates on swingarms.
https://www.vitalmx.com/features/it-honestly-doesnt-even-feel-honda-any…
Mikey gets it. Awesome content lately.
Honda owners, racers and test riders around the world the last ten years: The thing is rigid, beats us up in the second motos and is sketchy in fast straightaways. Can we please make some changes towards stability and comfort?
Honda Japan: So make it turn better?
in all actuality that is a nice piece spot welded on in a great spot. good work hrc
Chase said the opposite:
"So it just takes a lot of different things to make it work and it's definitely a lot more stable for me and a lot of different characteristics."
Question for you ML. According to Keefer and what he's been told by the engineers, the current gen honda actually has a super soft chassis and the twitchy feeling is the frame "rebounding" of sorts. So, if that's the case, that plate makes a lot of sense. Is that the theory? That them stiffening it up in that area is actually making it more compliant because it's not springing back as much?
I'm just referring to Honda's attitude over the last ten years. I think they're finaling figuring it out and listening to feedback though. Excited to see what they come out with in 2025.
Generally with racecars, when gussets / chassis reinforcement / roll cage cussets are stitch welded or spot welded it's either because the extra rigidity isn't wanted to a point where welding it continuously isn't warranted OR welding it continuously would cause the weld to crack (like with the typical dimple die'd A-Pillar / windscreen tube gussets on roll cages).
I'd guess they just didn't see any rigidity benefit / saw a weight penalty to welding it entirely and didn't want to grow the heat affected zone from welding, and they obviously aren't concerned about it cracking giving the very low flex/movement present at that already beefy junction?
I'm sure it's feel-able (if that's a word) to Chase / Jett / fast homies, but real world the location probably doesn't make a huge difference with the plate all on one tube, I imagine it's similar to adding wall thickness in a specific area like hydroformed bicycle frames.
As a Frame Maker / Life Long Welder, I'm fascinated by this addition to the CRF frame.
I wish I knew that frame better. I'll try to get to my local Honda dealer in the next few days to get a better take on it.
It is quite a thin gauge plate, when compared to what would be a fairly thick section of the frame, usually. But, maybe the CRF is (for an aluminium frame) quite thin where the plating is.
I'd love to see more of it, to see just how far it goes down the downtube.
I can spot a crack in one of the Tack welds - the one to the right and slightly above the cable / wire that is cable tied to, I think the plate (unless that mount is on the std frame?) . Curious as to the the dark diagonal mark between the said Tack, and the cable tied point - a cut in the plate done to form it to the frame, or, just a marker? I'm stuck on a small screen , so resolution is not that great.
The 'crack in the tack' - pretty bloody common in aluminium tacks during cooling, but, perhaps a result of the 'working' of the frame while in use?
The "it honestly doesn't even feel like a Honda anymore" quote might disturb Honda a bit, one would think.
Good find by mxav8r from the Dirt Bike article, and and ML512. As I wrote earlier, I'd love to see more pictures of it, but, perhaps it may not be possible .........
Looks like a small plate with an eye for a zip tie.
I don’t know man…. Anyone ever hear of a placebo? Does the AMA even have a method to determine if the teams are using stock frames?
Pit Row
Good spot, I use them daily.
They're most often supplied with a crazy strong, instant (and I really mean instant, unlike most adhesives claiming it) glue made by Loctite.
couple thoughts, first, didn't Keefer just do a video with Colts mechanic going over the bike. He never even brought it up which is odd. I would think Keefer would had been all over it. And the other thing is in the interview with Chase he said initially nobody like it until the matched it up with that different style shock he uses. So being that the public doesn't get that shock it isn't much use to a production bike?
I’m kind of surprised no one seems to be taking this as bad publicity for Honda. I’d be upset if my top rider said they’ve had to make so many changes to make the bike not feel the same as what is for sale
What are these little pieces you are referring to? They sound handy.
If there were any doubts left about him leaving Honda for KTM next year, that quote should erase them lol
"it doesn't even feel like a Honda" is definitely not something you'd want as an mfg. You'd want "Feeling like a Honda" sold as highly desirable
Hopefully there are better shots in Pit Bits
Oh shit . Gonna be a bunch of vital members saying their frames have gone from to stiff to to springy.
What if the plate's just there to cover up where they removed a bunch of material?
It’s been done already 04 was the last yr of good penatration & clean looking welds. Newer Honda frames r made with cheaper materials. They even look cheap compared to 02-04. Some 06,s hv gaps- holes in the welds. I don’t see a super thin plate with tack welds 5- 7 mm out making much of a difference. Bolting a skid plate on you can feel it’s much more rigid.
I'm not interested in a new Honda because I'm looking for comfort. Not stiffness and rigidity. But they keep making it more "rigid" every year!
Post a reply to: Team Honda HRC frame modification 🤔