Motorcycles going into a RECESSION

kkawboy14
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2/15/2017 9:41am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Steal somebody's custom painted helmet while your there and make it worth going......
mmain62 wrote:
Im confused a little? I don't think you are implying that I stole a helmet right? Are you saying that people pay ridiculous amounts for custom...
Im confused a little? I don't think you are implying that I stole a helmet right? Are you saying that people pay ridiculous amounts for custom helmets only to have them stolen by some dirt bag at a race.
It was a joke.

If you paid a lot to race and leave with an expensive helmet it would then be worth going.
endurox
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2/15/2017 9:41am
C.Worthy wrote:
First off, what's a "RESSION" ?
Once the 24 months of unemployment run out, this person is no longer in the labor force, There are over 93 million people not in the labor force now as opposed to 68 million 9 years ago. The lower middle class has been wiped out.
U-6 unemployment rate factors those under employed, fallen off ater 24 months and current short term unemployment rate. The U-6 just dropped to 9.7%. To bad the main stream fake news does not cover this rate.
Bottom line is that motorcycle sales are still more than 40% off peak sales in 2007.
mx216
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Portland, OR, USA
2/15/2017 9:45am
mx216 wrote:
Are mountain bikes over priced, or are motorcycles underpriced? Just wondered how they could be so close in price.
38special wrote:
I can easily justify a $5,000 - $6,000 MTB because the cost of operation is almost nil compared to MX. Yes I know there are bicycles...
I can easily justify a $5,000 - $6,000 MTB because the cost of operation is almost nil compared to MX. Yes I know there are bicycles with $10k price tags, but the returns greatly diminish over about 5 grand even for a pretty serious racer.

Sure, like any hobby you can blow gobs of money on cycling, but comparing apples-to-apples MTB is an absolute bargain compared to MX. Even if the initial bike cost seems high.
doghouse wrote:
Road cycling as well. You can get all the bike you possibly need for ~5k. And all you have to do to ride is open your...
Road cycling as well. You can get all the bike you possibly need for ~5k. And all you have to do to ride is open your garage door.
I was just wondering how the cost is justified initially? I don't care about future running costs. What's so expensive on a bicycle that puts it in the same price range as the latest and greatest 450. There is far more r&d cost as more components to develop, more work to manufacture all those parts which in turn requires a larger building with larger overhead and overall a larger workforce. Obviously different markets also, but when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of it, it seems crazy that the price paid for a bicycle can be the same or more as a dirtbike.
Anonymous (not verified)
2/15/2017 9:50am Edited Date/Time 9/1/2026 6:11pm
Blame share holding companies, in the UK over £26 billion went out to share holders in the top 250 companies in just the first quarter of...
Blame share holding companies, in the UK over £26 billion went out to share holders in the top 250 companies in just the first quarter of 2016.
The companies are run by accountants that answer to shareholders, who squeeze every penny out of the workers by making companies " more efficient!"
Sorry for the rant, but I feel it needs to even out a bit when the top 100 richest have more money than the rest of us mortals combined!
And that's what's up. Stamp it!

The Shop

NV825
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2/15/2017 9:57am
A lot of sports are on the decline. Moto, skiing/snowboarding, golf, tennis, skateboarding, etc. Each have problems once the consumer is already participating (time commitment, proximity to locations to play, safety, etc.), but the barrier for the consumer to first join the sport is almost universally one problem:

Middle-class income has not kept up with the rise in cost of living in a majority of the country.

Each sport has equipment that can be bought used for a fraction of the prices for brand new. The problem is that middle-class families around the country just don't have the disposable income and purchasing power they had a decade ago. There are still plenty of idiots who will go out and max out their credit limits on toys, but there are many families who do carefully budget their income on the necessities of life which have continued to rise in cost.
mmain62
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2/15/2017 10:13am
kkawboy14 wrote:
Steal somebody's custom painted helmet while your there and make it worth going......
mmain62 wrote:
Im confused a little? I don't think you are implying that I stole a helmet right? Are you saying that people pay ridiculous amounts for custom...
Im confused a little? I don't think you are implying that I stole a helmet right? Are you saying that people pay ridiculous amounts for custom helmets only to have them stolen by some dirt bag at a race.
kkawboy14 wrote:
It was a joke.

If you paid a lot to race and leave with an expensive helmet it would then be worth going.
I figured it was. But really you have a point. I would never do such things but im sure people do.
kaptkaos
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2/15/2017 10:33am
mx216 wrote:
Are mountain bikes over priced, or are motorcycles underpriced? Just wondered how they could be so close in price.
OMG! You nailed it! When I think about how much I paid for my MTB and my Road bike....I cringe. If I tell my Dad or uncles how much I spent on a bicycle, they would think I am nuts...and if my wife new how much they REALLY cost....
kaptkaos
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2/15/2017 10:45am
mx216 wrote:
I was just wondering how the cost is justified initially? I don't care about future running costs. What's so expensive on a bicycle that puts it...
I was just wondering how the cost is justified initially? I don't care about future running costs. What's so expensive on a bicycle that puts it in the same price range as the latest and greatest 450. There is far more r&d cost as more components to develop, more work to manufacture all those parts which in turn requires a larger building with larger overhead and overall a larger workforce. Obviously different markets also, but when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of it, it seems crazy that the price paid for a bicycle can be the same or more as a dirtbike.
American Corporate Greed. Follow the money.
Nothing can justify the cost of a 10K MTB other than, good ole American Greed and pride.

Yes, you wont ever need more than 5K to be competitive on a bicycle, but even at 5K, its still overpriced, I can go buy a brand new 500cc street bike for that much. A bike with a motor, transmission, computer, lights, instrumentation and I dont have to pedal it!

People are going to chime in and say that due to low volume of bikes sold, they have to sell them at that price to be profitable....BS. They have to sell them at that price to be MEGA PROFITABLE and payout millions in bonus to executives and shareholders and meet inflated growth expectations. In the good old America, a company would be happy to sell a lot more units at a fair price and make a very good living. Now everybody has to be a mega millionairre.

That being said, I have about $5000 in my Specialized MTB and I got lucky and got a $4-5000 CF 17 lb Scott Elite road bike used for $900. I will likely keep both for a very long time unless something happens to them. But I will also say good bikes do last a very long time, just like my Honda MX bikes! (unlike those KTMs!)lol...
Kenny Lingus
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2/15/2017 11:01am
And how much does the average family spend on cell phones, internet and cable?

Dirt bikes aren't cool anymore. They are not trendy. They are not the "in" cool thing to do anymore.

Can we please stop with the outrageous price quotes on getting started. Pretty soon the price to get started will include a semi, motorhome and a practice bike with mechanic.
kiwifan
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2/15/2017 11:33am
kiwifan wrote:
If the 100% tariff on Euro bikes come in that will definitely impact the industry.
Dcross829 wrote:
There is a meeting in Washington DC today about this maybe we will here more if it is going to happen.
yup, and IF that happened I bet KTM and Husky will cancel their racing programme here...ok I wont bet any money on it, but I wouldnt be surprised if they did that in protest.
mmain62
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2/15/2017 11:56am
And how much does the average family spend on cell phones, internet and cable? Dirt bikes aren't cool anymore. They are not trendy. They are not...
And how much does the average family spend on cell phones, internet and cable?

Dirt bikes aren't cool anymore. They are not trendy. They are not the "in" cool thing to do anymore.

Can we please stop with the outrageous price quotes on getting started. Pretty soon the price to get started will include a semi, motorhome and a practice bike with mechanic.
I agree with you 100%. Although I have seen people that I have introduced to riding show up at my house 2 months later with a fun mover, pit bikes, brand new bikes, gear etc. Its nuts . When I started out I had a helmet from Farm King (a little farm supply store) 5th hand 12 year old gear from a guy my dad knew and the first race I ever won was in all of that junk. I guess my point and what I think is part of your point is. This sport can be fun and affordable, unless you try to keep up with the jones's. As soon as you think you need the best stuff in order to win you go broke and still aren't any better, you may look better but that's about it.
hvaughn88
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2/15/2017 12:03pm
And how much does the average family spend on cell phones, internet and cable? Dirt bikes aren't cool anymore. They are not trendy. They are not...
And how much does the average family spend on cell phones, internet and cable?

Dirt bikes aren't cool anymore. They are not trendy. They are not the "in" cool thing to do anymore.

Can we please stop with the outrageous price quotes on getting started. Pretty soon the price to get started will include a semi, motorhome and a practice bike with mechanic.
mmain62 wrote:
I agree with you 100%. Although I have seen people that I have introduced to riding show up at my house 2 months later with a...
I agree with you 100%. Although I have seen people that I have introduced to riding show up at my house 2 months later with a fun mover, pit bikes, brand new bikes, gear etc. Its nuts . When I started out I had a helmet from Farm King (a little farm supply store) 5th hand 12 year old gear from a guy my dad knew and the first race I ever won was in all of that junk. I guess my point and what I think is part of your point is. This sport can be fun and affordable, unless you try to keep up with the jones's. As soon as you think you need the best stuff in order to win you go broke and still aren't any better, you may look better but that's about it.
This was brought up last week, and neither one of you are wrong in regards to it being possible to find a way to get by on the cheap. But IMO, for the sport to be viewed as healthy, then you really need the companies involved in the industry selling new stuff. If the only way for the sport to be viewed as obtainable is by used bikes, farm supply store helmet, and 5th hand 12 year old gear, than that doesn't sound to economically healthy for any company that's in the business of making and selling dirt bike products.
mmain62
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2/15/2017 12:32pm
hvaughn88 wrote:
This was brought up last week, and neither one of you are wrong in regards to it being possible to find a way to get by...
This was brought up last week, and neither one of you are wrong in regards to it being possible to find a way to get by on the cheap. But IMO, for the sport to be viewed as healthy, then you really need the companies involved in the industry selling new stuff. If the only way for the sport to be viewed as obtainable is by used bikes, farm supply store helmet, and 5th hand 12 year old gear, than that doesn't sound to economically healthy for any company that's in the business of making and selling dirt bike products.
Totally agree with you. I was 17 when I started riding making like $5 an hour so That was about all I could afford after paying for a brand new 06 kx250f ha I buy new gear about every two years now a days. I also try to get everyone I know to pick up riding still. Some people get in it and some don't. But that's just the way it goes I guess.
TXDirt
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2/15/2017 12:42pm
Motorcycling has been a family sport mostly. Forget the costs involved for a moment. Just look at the time commitment. Motorcycling, and really especially racing takes a lot of time commitment. I was born in the 80's. My dad was Born in the 60's. Parents of those older generations were much more likely to invest in things that were family related, even if they did take a lot of time up. Now kids who were born in the 90's and 2000's and are growing into parents themselves don't want to invest that same kind of time. I spent my entire childhood riding and racing around the country. I've spent countless hours on the road. I even struggle at the thought of getting my kids into racing because the time it takes is massive. I honestly don't know how my parents did it to be honest. Spending countless hours driving to practice. Sitting all day at the track on race day for a few motos. I think this has as much to do with lower interest in motorcycles as much as the money side.
Anonymous (not verified)
2/15/2017 1:03pm Edited Date/Time 9/1/2026 6:11pm
Middle class income, and the cost of living. They are both going in the opposite direction. I work in the auto industry and after record sales last year the dealers are struggling right now. I see a big dip in the economy coming soon.
doghouse
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2/15/2017 1:25pm
38special wrote:
I can easily justify a $5,000 - $6,000 MTB because the cost of operation is almost nil compared to MX. Yes I know there are bicycles...
I can easily justify a $5,000 - $6,000 MTB because the cost of operation is almost nil compared to MX. Yes I know there are bicycles with $10k price tags, but the returns greatly diminish over about 5 grand even for a pretty serious racer.

Sure, like any hobby you can blow gobs of money on cycling, but comparing apples-to-apples MTB is an absolute bargain compared to MX. Even if the initial bike cost seems high.
doghouse wrote:
Road cycling as well. You can get all the bike you possibly need for ~5k. And all you have to do to ride is open your...
Road cycling as well. You can get all the bike you possibly need for ~5k. And all you have to do to ride is open your garage door.
mx216 wrote:
I was just wondering how the cost is justified initially? I don't care about future running costs. What's so expensive on a bicycle that puts it...
I was just wondering how the cost is justified initially? I don't care about future running costs. What's so expensive on a bicycle that puts it in the same price range as the latest and greatest 450. There is far more r&d cost as more components to develop, more work to manufacture all those parts which in turn requires a larger building with larger overhead and overall a larger workforce. Obviously different markets also, but when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of it, it seems crazy that the price paid for a bicycle can be the same or more as a dirtbike.
You have to take future costs into account. You can't just pick and choose. Motorcycle companies make more money on parts than they do the bike. That doesn't happen on bicycles, so the companies need to charge more margin on the actual equipment. And 5k is almost half of what a 450 costs these days, and to trick one out to an equivaent level you are looking at 15k, or three times as much.
JB 19
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2/15/2017 1:38pm
There are simply less people racing dirt bikes than there were when the sport peaked because many of those people are doing other things that didn't exist or were not as popular back then.

Nearly everything is in a decline from what it once was because there are so many different ways to spend money. The best thing to do is embrace it and make the best of it and quit reliving 1977 or 1997. We ain't going back to that. The world has changed.
Torco1
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2/15/2017 2:04pm
TXDirt wrote:
You can afford it if you put it on your credit card. Worry about that later. When interest rates go look for deals and just charge...
You can afford it if you put it on your credit card. Worry about that later. When interest rates go look for deals and just charge it.
Hold on a sec. What do you do when the credit card bill comes in?
TXDirt wrote:
Pay it with another credit card.
I use my dead relatives info when acquiring new credit. It's worked pretty well for the last 10 years.....one creditor got wise to it though and dug up my grandma and took her gold teeth and wedding ring.....that's not too bad of a trade off for a garage full of toys.
TXDirt
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2/15/2017 2:05pm
Hold on a sec. What do you do when the credit card bill comes in?
TXDirt wrote:
Pay it with another credit card.
Torco1 wrote:
I use my dead relatives info when acquiring new credit. It's worked pretty well for the last 10 years.....one creditor got wise to it though and...
I use my dead relatives info when acquiring new credit. It's worked pretty well for the last 10 years.....one creditor got wise to it though and dug up my grandma and took her gold teeth and wedding ring.....that's not too bad of a trade off for a garage full of toys.
That's what I'm talkin about. Way to get creative!
nascarnate326
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2/15/2017 2:16pm
Maybe its different here in Michigan but no one is forcing anyone to have a big lifted truck, camper, or 3 EFI 2 year old bikes.


Get a harbor freight trailer, and 1995+ 125, some cheap gear and go have fun. You don't NEED 2k in gear or a 8000 bike to ride.

People seem to have forgot about the fun that dirt bikes bring. Everything's do damn competitive...all for what? so you can be C class champion? I don't win shit but I have fun.

We need more people like BQ365.
hvaughn88
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2/15/2017 2:18pm
Maybe its different here in Michigan but no one is forcing anyone to have a big lifted truck, camper, or 3 EFI 2 year old bikes...
Maybe its different here in Michigan but no one is forcing anyone to have a big lifted truck, camper, or 3 EFI 2 year old bikes.


Get a harbor freight trailer, and 1995+ 125, some cheap gear and go have fun. You don't NEED 2k in gear or a 8000 bike to ride.

People seem to have forgot about the fun that dirt bikes bring. Everything's do damn competitive...all for what? so you can be C class champion? I don't win shit but I have fun.

We need more people like BQ365.
And once again, every used bike was a new bike at one time.
Evoracer
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2/15/2017 2:21pm
My '16 YZ250 has been recessed since 2006. I think I'm good...
Keep_Riding78
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2/15/2017 3:00pm
Man for my first post on Forum!
I knew I would get to see some post but this is great in the
fact it shows all motorcyclist care about ridding something
that most can not explain but can't let go. I put this up because
I work over 3400 hours a year and have little time with my
ridding and family.
Why did I put that because the cost of living is bad and so
is the market for ridding. This affects both workers and buyers.
I believe There is an answer to both, It will take all of us to agree
on backing each other and showing up for rides, race events, voting
and also pushing for new people into the motorcycle industry whether
its on a Motocross bike, or a Trail bike. I want change for my kids
and the rest of my ability to ride.
gt80rider
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2/15/2017 3:29pm
Anonymous wrote:
Middle class income, and the cost of living. They are both going in the opposite direction. I work in the auto industry and after record sales...
Middle class income, and the cost of living. They are both going in the opposite direction. I work in the auto industry and after record sales last year the dealers are struggling right now. I see a big dip in the economy coming soon.
So... how are the dealers hurting during record sales?
Walter
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2/15/2017 3:48pm
gt80rider wrote:
So... how are the dealers hurting during record sales?
Some small brands are reporting % increases, but the amount of the market they command and there OA numbers are very small, relative to others in the industry.
My understanding is that the number of bikes sold OA is down.
Some high level industry execs and consultants are quite concerned over the trends they are seeing and predict that if there is another recession, very bad things will follow.
BobPA
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2/15/2017 4:11pm
Walter wrote:
Some small brands are reporting % increases, but the amount of the market they command and there OA numbers are very small, relative to others in...
Some small brands are reporting % increases, but the amount of the market they command and there OA numbers are very small, relative to others in the industry.
My understanding is that the number of bikes sold OA is down.
Some high level industry execs and consultants are quite concerned over the trends they are seeing and predict that if there is another recession, very bad things will follow.
People cannot even predict tomorrow's weather, you really think some bean counters can predict the economy?
early
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2/15/2017 4:20pm
Anonymous wrote:
Middle class income, and the cost of living. They are both going in the opposite direction. I work in the auto industry and after record sales...
Middle class income, and the cost of living. They are both going in the opposite direction. I work in the auto industry and after record sales last year the dealers are struggling right now. I see a big dip in the economy coming soon.
gt80rider wrote:
So... how are the dealers hurting during record sales?
So record auto sales for a year means record auto debt for that year. What were we saying about disposable income?
bronwynrayne
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2/15/2017 4:28pm
And how much does the average family spend on cell phones, internet and cable? Dirt bikes aren't cool anymore. They are not trendy. They are not...
And how much does the average family spend on cell phones, internet and cable?

Dirt bikes aren't cool anymore. They are not trendy. They are not the "in" cool thing to do anymore.

Can we please stop with the outrageous price quotes on getting started. Pretty soon the price to get started will include a semi, motorhome and a practice bike with mechanic.
Husband and I ride ten year old two strokes.
I paid $2200 for my 125 and I think he paid close to $3500 for his 250.
Helmets: Mine - HJC Basic Model $100 His - TLD Air Charge $250
Gear Set: Mine - On Sale Thor $130 His - On Sale AXO $100
Boots: Mine - Tech 11's $350 His - Tech 10's $450
Goggles: Mine - 100% (bought them off a vitard) $35 His - 100% $35

Let me make one things extremely clear here: We try to buy local as much as possible. We support local businesses whenever it is possible. The only things on this list bought online were my boots as I couldn't find the ones I wanted locally.

A day at the track costs each of us $25, so that is $50 a weekend in entry fees. The track is a half an hour away, costs us 7$ round trip for fuel for the truck (four cylinder, two wheel drive, 2000 Nissan Frontier, regular cab) and then the fuel for our bikes I would put in at about $10 each a day. Depends what blend we are running.
Plus, add in the ~$10 for premix.

Our grand total startup, if we didn't already have our bikes would be: Mine - $2815 His- $2335
One day of practice a week costs us around $70 a day.

If we were splitting that it wouldn't be a big deal but we are living on one income right now and that ends up being our grocery bill for two weeks worth of food, for one day of riding. We have outright refused to go to the other track here because they're even more expensive than the one we go to normally.

Dirtbikes are our budget, always have been, and we are punk ass twenty somethings. It's downright fucking impossible to get ahead in this day and age without completely digging yourself into a hole first, and that is why no kids are out riding. They have no expendable income. It goes to their student loan payments or their car payments or whatever. I can name four people at least, in my age bracket, that would get a dirtbike but they can't afford it.
Walter
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2/15/2017 5:04pm
BobPA wrote:
People cannot even predict tomorrow's weather, you really think some bean counters can predict the economy?
I do not think anyone here has attempted to predict the economy.

The point I was making is that folks who study this industry pretty closely and who depend on it for their livelihood
say the industry is so tenuous that if there is another downturn, things will get very dire for some major segments.
kkawboy14
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USA
2/15/2017 5:14pm
Maybe its different here in Michigan but no one is forcing anyone to have a big lifted truck, camper, or 3 EFI 2 year old bikes...
Maybe its different here in Michigan but no one is forcing anyone to have a big lifted truck, camper, or 3 EFI 2 year old bikes.


Get a harbor freight trailer, and 1995+ 125, some cheap gear and go have fun. You don't NEED 2k in gear or a 8000 bike to ride.

People seem to have forgot about the fun that dirt bikes bring. Everything's do damn competitive...all for what? so you can be C class champion? I don't win shit but I have fun.

We need more people like BQ365.
hvaughn88 wrote:
And once again, every used bike was a new bike at one time.
How long is a new bike new once it's purchased and on the track? Smile

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