How can(could) the Japanese manufacturers just hand over the market to KTM?

Brent
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5/30/2020 10:38am Edited Date/Time 5/30/2020 10:39am
I’m starting to think KTM is a cult
...I thought so too, until I bought one instead of a new Honda.

I rode red for thirty years, now I guess I'm drinking the orange Kool-Aid now because I ain't going back...
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VetMX.com
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5/30/2020 10:54am
Thanks Maverick. A lot of people got bull dozed in 2008.
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str8line
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5/30/2020 11:09am Edited Date/Time 5/30/2020 3:46pm
kage173 wrote:
When you walk into a Yamaha dealership, what do you see? Street bikes, wave runners, side by sides and quads. Then over in the corner you...
When you walk into a Yamaha dealership, what do you see? Street bikes, wave runners, side by sides and quads. Then over in the corner you see ttrs and a couple of wrs. Then finally you see the yz. The moto x bikes are tip of the spear for branding. KTM is tiny vs the Japanese so they segmented the market for hardcore enthusiasts and focus on offroad dirtbikes. The Japanes haven't given up anything, they make their $ on a broader consumer market that has bigger wallets and less knowledge about what they are buying.
Quad sales have gone to side x sides, and Yamaha is getting crushed in side x sides by Polaris, Can-Am and Kawi. How many watercraft do you think they sell? KTM adventure bikes are taking over in a growing niche market, unlike the rest of the street market. I own Honda's, Yamaha's, Kawi's and KTM so I'm not hyping KTM, but it takes a lot to get brand conscious buyers back once they've switched loyalties. Where I live it's KTM/Husky 2-1. Yamaha, Honda, Kawi used to be the go-to brands for kids I'm seeing a lot more KTM's/Husky's, including electrics. Maybe my view is myopic because I'm in the West but it's a sea of orange out here and people love their KTM products. If KTM develops a side x side it would be another nail in the coffins of Japanese brands. Why give up market share and loyalties? How many people over the last 10-years switched to KTM just for the electric start? The Japanese were super late to that game. Now people want 300's and 350's, and Yamaha can't even come up with a YZ300? It makes no sense.
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jbonemalone
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5/30/2020 11:47am
In Louisiana, the ktm and husky dealers have all closed doors , and every Japanese dealer sells out of all the bikes every year.
Yes even two strokes.
I bought two ktms and wasn’t really impressed with them that much over a Yamaha or Honda.
It really depends on where you’re at to quantify that statement of just handing over the market.
Yamaha is currently king locally even for off road but it seems to change year to year.
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The Shop

dcg141
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5/30/2020 12:06pm Edited Date/Time 5/30/2020 12:08pm
In Louisiana, the ktm and husky dealers have all closed doors , and every Japanese dealer sells out of all the bikes every year. Yes even...
In Louisiana, the ktm and husky dealers have all closed doors , and every Japanese dealer sells out of all the bikes every year.
Yes even two strokes.
I bought two ktms and wasn’t really impressed with them that much over a Yamaha or Honda.
It really depends on where you’re at to quantify that statement of just handing over the market.
Yamaha is currently king locally even for off road but it seems to change year to year.
I sell a lot of bikes to riders from Louisiana. So does Munn.
brimx153
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5/30/2020 1:01pm
Feck all 350 sold here . Far more 450 s and 250 s
5/30/2020 3:34pm
If (when) Suzuki decides to redesign their RM-Z 450, imagine if they ditched the 450 and produced a new 350 instead.
Would it work sway a lot of you?
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kkawboy14
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5/30/2020 4:14pm
I’m starting to think KTM is a cult
BINGO! Ringo!
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PTECH
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5/30/2020 4:41pm Edited Date/Time 5/30/2020 4:44pm
I dont race or ride on tracks, I ride single track but its insane to me the market share KTM has in my neck of the woods. Sit at the trailhead on any given day and KTM outnumbers all other bikes combined, probably by two to one. Not sure what the track is like but that's how it is at the trailhead. I think I've seen one Kawi out on the trails in about the last 3 years and not a single Suzuki. Yamaha and Honda are the two closest but still nowhere near the amount of KTM/Huksy. A buddy of mine just bought a new Sherco this weekend. I don't ride a KTM because I don't like the japanese bikes, I ride a KTM because Japan doesn't make what I want (300 2 stroke with electric start)
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wrc777
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5/30/2020 5:38pm
If (when) Suzuki decides to redesign their RM-Z 450, imagine if they ditched the 450 and produced a new 350 instead. Would it work sway a...
If (when) Suzuki decides to redesign their RM-Z 450, imagine if they ditched the 450 and produced a new 350 instead.
Would it work sway a lot of you?
Will it be 15 lbs heavier than a ktm 450 and be kick start only?
Brent
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5/30/2020 5:46pm
If (when) Suzuki decides to redesign their RM-Z 450, imagine if they ditched the 450 and produced a new 350 instead. Would it work sway a...
If (when) Suzuki decides to redesign their RM-Z 450, imagine if they ditched the 450 and produced a new 350 instead.
Would it work sway a lot of you?
wrc777 wrote:
Will it be 15 lbs heavier than a ktm 450 and be kick start only?
...my dog will have a litter of kittens before Suzuki spends one more R&D dollar on their dirt bike line - and for that matter, my wife would agree to a threesome with a willing and eager Amy Adams before Suzuki makes a 350...
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Johnny Ringo
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5/30/2020 9:11pm
I’m starting to think KTM is a cult
Brent wrote:
...I thought so too, until I bought one instead of a new Honda. I rode red for thirty years, now I guess I'm drinking the orange...
...I thought so too, until I bought one instead of a new Honda.

I rode red for thirty years, now I guess I'm drinking the orange Kool-Aid now because I ain't going back...
That’s how every single cult works! Lol
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FI2T
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5/30/2020 9:23pm
PTECH wrote:
I dont race or ride on tracks, I ride single track but its insane to me the market share KTM has in my neck of the...
I dont race or ride on tracks, I ride single track but its insane to me the market share KTM has in my neck of the woods. Sit at the trailhead on any given day and KTM outnumbers all other bikes combined, probably by two to one. Not sure what the track is like but that's how it is at the trailhead. I think I've seen one Kawi out on the trails in about the last 3 years and not a single Suzuki. Yamaha and Honda are the two closest but still nowhere near the amount of KTM/Huksy. A buddy of mine just bought a new Sherco this weekend. I don't ride a KTM because I don't like the japanese bikes, I ride a KTM because Japan doesn't make what I want (300 2 stroke with electric start)
Spot in... my offroad/single track group are almost all KTM converts now. A couple 125's, 350's, lots of 250's and 300's. Most of us moto as well and now run KTM's at the track to.

They didn't get handed anything though. I personally feel like they made a big jump with all of their 2017 models and deserve credit for the work. That said the Japanese manufacturers don't need the 2 stroke, offroad and 350 segments like KTM does. For Moto the bikes/brands are all so good now...KTM was brilliant for digging in on their 350, two strokes and offroad lineup!
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5/30/2020 11:24pm
When you have worked in a mega corporate, you will understand why the Japanese are failing.
Everything is about the numbers, more and more financial kpis.
You need 20 people to sign off before a decision get ratified. Everyone wants to throw their opinion in the room so they can justify their existence. So it takes forever to do something.
There is a complete aversion to risk.
Finally marketing is run by a bunch of wankers who have never actually used or even touched the product they want to get sold.
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kiwifan
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5/31/2020 12:38am
When you have worked in a mega corporate, you will understand why the Japanese are failing. Everything is about the numbers, more and more financial kpis...
When you have worked in a mega corporate, you will understand why the Japanese are failing.
Everything is about the numbers, more and more financial kpis.
You need 20 people to sign off before a decision get ratified. Everyone wants to throw their opinion in the room so they can justify their existence. So it takes forever to do something.
There is a complete aversion to risk.
Finally marketing is run by a bunch of wankers who have never actually used or even touched the product they want to get sold.
The Japanese manufacturers are failing?? You seem to know a lot about them (risk aversion, takes forever to make a decision, KPIs, marketing run by a bunch of wankers who dont ride), have you worked for them? ...or is this just assumption?
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5/31/2020 1:35am Edited Date/Time 5/31/2020 1:38am
Any Team Orange fans out there ready for some feel-good news? Despite being dethroned in the 2020 Dakar Rally, KTM is winning worldwide on the sales front. And not only because it’s churning out so many new adventure bikes.

The Pierer Mobility Group, umbrella company for KTM, Husqvarna — and as of September, Spain’s GasGas, has just published a year-end financial report showing KTM has broken its ninth consecutive record for sales and revenue in 2019, and more poignantly, these results show KTM has outperformed the overall market average globally — as well as in North America.

This latter fact showing that the high numbers are not all about small displacement bikes KTM has been manufacturing in India for the developing world as some readers assumed when we published figures last year, showing KTM outselling Harley-Davidson and BMW in global unit sales for 2018. In fact, KTM’s success in the States during 2019 is perhaps the most striking feature of the year end data crossing our desk today.

There’s no doubt the U.S. is one of today’s most challenging markets. Once predictable and lucrative, manufacturers are now scrambling for traction as demographics wane and trends shift unsteadily. Despite a strong economy, sales of new motorcycles were not just stagnant in 2019, they actually shrank by 2.7%.

But KTM’s sales grew by 3.6% in the U.S. last year. If that doesn’t impress you, what about the fact that 9.7% of new motorcycles sold in the States last year were KTMs or Husqvarnas.

In the global market, Pierer Group’s figures are no less impressive and also not strictly a story about small displacement sales. Globally, large displacement bike sales (over 1200cc) were down 6.3% for 2019 while KTM’s sales of bikes over 1200cc went up by a whopping 14.5%.

In total, KTM sold 280,099 units globally, up from 234,449 in 2018. And Husqvarna, benefitting from KTM’s aggressive support saw sales rise to 45,650 units, creating a 7% increase in marketshare for the duo, and a 4% gain in revenue.
KTM breaks record sales

For comparison, global unit sales for Harley totaled 218,273 (down from 228,057) with 125,900 sold in the U.S. (down from 132,868). For European brands, Ducati was up marginally in Europe, but down by 2% in the U.S. (53,183 total sales globally). Triumph has yet to release figures, but we expect something around 67,000 units. KTM’s closest competitor, BMW Motorrad, reported sales in the U.S. as stable, and set its own record for global motorcycle sales (including scooters), up 5.8% in 2019 for a total of 175,162 units.

Since sales figures for the major Japanese manufactures reside in another stratosphere (Honda sold over 20 million two-wheelers last year), it’s not a polite comparison, but it is notable that the Pierer Group is now the most successful non-Asian manufacturer.

There’s no question KTM’s success is the direct result of Stefan Pierer’s Midas touch. When the Austrian businessman bought KTM in 1991 he said the quality of the machines coming out of the Mattighofen, Austria, factory was so poor the brand was ridiculed. He also said that “every crisis is also an opportunity.”

Last year Pierer reinvested nearly 135 million in product development and over 49 million in infrastructure, pumping the beast with lifeblood to ensure continued prosperity, not only for the growing Pierer empire, but for all of us at ground zero, enjoying this cascade of new and constantly-evolving machines.

So far we know of several exciting bikes headed our way from the Pierer Group including KTM’s much anticipated 390 Adventure, as well as a twin-powered 490 ADV offering. From Husqvarna there’s evidence we’ll see new entry-level and mid-weight Nordens in 501, 401 and 250cc displacements, and most surprising, indications GasGas will make a daring leap from its trail/trials heritage straight into the street market with an 800cc adventure touring model.
KTM record sales

With the advantage of momentum and positive cash flow, the Pierer Group, currently Europe’s largest manufacturer, is predicting 8-10% growth during 2020, a goal the feels odds-on.

For a long time now KTM’s biggest claim to fame was its 18-year winning streak at the Dakar Rally. With that impressive run now capped after Ricky Brabec’s victorious run for Honda, it looks like KTM is now working on being famous for winning over the world, one new motorcycle at a time.
https://www.advpulse.com/adv-news/ktm-breaks-sales-records-beating-major-brands-in-us-and-abroad/
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kkawboy14
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5/31/2020 3:19am Edited Date/Time 5/31/2020 3:20am
When you have worked in a mega corporate, you will understand why the Japanese are failing. Everything is about the numbers, more and more financial kpis...
When you have worked in a mega corporate, you will understand why the Japanese are failing.
Everything is about the numbers, more and more financial kpis.
You need 20 people to sign off before a decision get ratified. Everyone wants to throw their opinion in the room so they can justify their existence. So it takes forever to do something.
There is a complete aversion to risk.
Finally marketing is run by a bunch of wankers who have never actually used or even touched the product they want to get sold.
The Japanese aren’t “failing”. It’s ok to have your own business plan and stick to that. KTM has a different business plan. Both are successful in their own way.
6
MudPup545
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5/31/2020 4:34am
I’m starting to think KTM is a cult
Brent wrote:
...I thought so too, until I bought one instead of a new Honda. I rode red for thirty years, now I guess I'm drinking the orange...
...I thought so too, until I bought one instead of a new Honda.

I rode red for thirty years, now I guess I'm drinking the orange Kool-Aid now because I ain't going back...
That’s how every single cult works! Lol
What category/group do I fall into? I’ve owned KTMs since they were white.
resetjet
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5/31/2020 5:45am
Easy ktm has motorcycles. The others have generators, pianos, cars and lawnmower engines to name a few. Focus
skypig
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5/31/2020 5:57am Edited Date/Time 5/31/2020 5:58am
It’s history repeating.
The British bike industry kept producing the same bikes, while the Japanese kept developing.
Suzuki “stole” Walter Kedron from CZ, and “sorted” 2 strokes. Won a lot of GPs and MX titles.
The Japanese started a long way behind. They caught and passed the arrogant “old school”.
BSA, Triumph, AJS, Norton, and many more, just closed down.

KTM sell a lot of street bikes. From 200cc - 1340cc
KTM are leading the charge* on Electric bikes.
Suzuki have disbanded the R&D department?

* Smile
Johnny Ringo
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5/31/2020 6:48am Edited Date/Time 5/31/2020 6:48am
Brent wrote:
...I thought so too, until I bought one instead of a new Honda. I rode red for thirty years, now I guess I'm drinking the orange...
...I thought so too, until I bought one instead of a new Honda.

I rode red for thirty years, now I guess I'm drinking the orange Kool-Aid now because I ain't going back...
That’s how every single cult works! Lol
MudPup545 wrote:
What category/group do I fall into? I’ve owned KTMs since they were white.
Rajneesh?
1
H4L
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5/31/2020 7:29am Edited Date/Time 5/31/2020 7:37am
In Louisiana, the ktm and husky dealers have all closed doors , and every Japanese dealer sells out of all the bikes every year. Yes even...
In Louisiana, the ktm and husky dealers have all closed doors , and every Japanese dealer sells out of all the bikes every year.
Yes even two strokes.
I bought two ktms and wasn’t really impressed with them that much over a Yamaha or Honda.
It really depends on where you’re at to quantify that statement of just handing over the market.
Yamaha is currently king locally even for off road but it seems to change year to year.
Similar experience. I was in the market for a new 450 & tested a 17 1/2 KTM450FE in 17 to see what all the hype was about & wasn’t that impressed. I ended up with a new 18 CRF450r later that yr. & haven’t looked back.
Also test rode a 17 250 sx & tc 2strokes since I was looking to upgrade an 03 CR250r. Once again afterwards I came away wondering what the hype was all about since I didn’t think it would have been an upgrade & actually felt it would have been a downgrade.
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str8line
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5/31/2020 7:33am
H4L wrote:
Similar experience. I was in the market for a new 450 & tested a 17 1/2 KTM450FE in 17 to see what all the hype was...
Similar experience. I was in the market for a new 450 & tested a 17 1/2 KTM450FE in 17 to see what all the hype was about & wasn’t that impressed. I ended up with a new 18 CRF450r later that yr. & haven’t looked back.
Also test rode a 17 250 sx & tc 2strokes since I was looking to upgrade an 03 CR250r. Once again afterwards I came away wondering what the hype was all about since I didn’t think it would have been an upgrade & actually felt it would have been a downgrade.

You thought a 2017 KTM 250SX was a downgrade to your 2003 CR250R?
H4L
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5/31/2020 7:36am
str8line wrote:

You thought a 2017 KTM 250SX was a downgrade to your 2003 CR250R?
Yup. The 03 CR has mods..
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MZ193
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5/31/2020 7:38am
H4L wrote:
Similar experience. I was in the market for a new 450 & tested a 17 1/2 KTM450FE in 17 to see what all the hype was...
Similar experience. I was in the market for a new 450 & tested a 17 1/2 KTM450FE in 17 to see what all the hype was about & wasn’t that impressed. I ended up with a new 18 CRF450r later that yr. & haven’t looked back.
Also test rode a 17 250 sx & tc 2strokes since I was looking to upgrade an 03 CR250r. Once again afterwards I came away wondering what the hype was all about since I didn’t think it would have been an upgrade & actually felt it would have been a downgrade.
str8line wrote:

You thought a 2017 KTM 250SX was a downgrade to your 2003 CR250R?
Honda die hard fanboy😄
H4L
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5/31/2020 7:43am
MZ193 wrote:
Honda die hard fanboy😄
Currently have blue, red & yellow bikes in the stable.. Whistling
MZ193
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5/31/2020 7:49am
MZ193 wrote:
Honda die hard fanboy😄
H4L wrote:
Currently have blue, red & yellow bikes in the stable.. Whistling
But still hate ktm's😄
H4L
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5/31/2020 7:51am
MZ193 wrote:
But still hate ktm's😄
Huh.. Where did I say I hate KTM’s ?
You might want to re-read my post..
1911
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5/31/2020 8:13am
I’m starting to think KTM is a cult
I was thinking the hate of KTM was a cult.
kijen
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5/31/2020 11:28am
Not sure the Japanese are too worried, probably dont turn much profit on a very small segmement of their products. When Ktm adds cars, generators and such then you know they are going afrer em.

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