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Had a similar situation happen years ago. A guy down on the blind side after a good size jump. People tending to him but no one on the top to warn oncoming riders. I get past them, circle around and rode up the side to the peak of the jump. A pretty good vantage point and could see the riders carving the S-turns before getting to the jump. The problem was at the base in the incline was about 20ft. of 8 inch rutted mud. Guys were coming in mid 3rd gear and all looking for what rut to take, not at the jump. Half - three quarters ways through they'd twist it to hit the incline. One guy head down at the base now pinned on a line right at me. (Now I know what pin setters' guys felt like before they became automated.) I was off and behind my bike just past the peak, and then he looks up. Dropped my bike and bailed off the side. Somehow, he able to pitch it a little to the left and barley made it by the down rider and people tending to him. After that I made the decision if I ever did it again is to warn people before the jump.
This is common in the snowmobile world----Come around a corner and you'll have a few snowmobilers stopped in the middle of the trail.
Its the world revolves around me attitude..oblivious to their surroundings..
I do block part of the track, but only in a place where riders can clearly see me from a distance. If not, riders will keep the throttle pinned and jump to one side or the other of me and still hit the downed rider. I also wave my arms to get their attention and direct them to slow down and away from where the downed rider is.
You are not wrong brother. Glad you were able to dodge a bad situation and not compound it.
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My son has a similar story....
X a million on "most" of the kids flagging having no formal training. I don't care if the guys trapped under his bike, their job is make sure no one runs him over, and that's it. You're not an emt, that's not your job. Wave that flag like a maniac and make sure the next riders know a guys on the track. And put your effing phone down, that crap drives me nuts.
I've done that many times racing long GP tracks that were 5-10 miles long. They go back into the hills of Glen Helen. I would park my bike on the inside or outside of a turn to block the downed rider and flag down a sweeper-rider or an official on a quad. I've had many races refunded because of that. It's just what you do. Other people's safety comes before my enjoyment of a race.
You just hope someone would do it for you, or your loved one etc.
It’s what a proper society of shared values would do.
If the track had flaggers, why were they not at the blind jump?
Sure, but flaggers aside this was madness.
I know what track you're talking about and they actually do a pretty good job with having flaggers and I'm fairly certain they always have an EMT on site. That said, a flagger taking 1 minute to get to the scene is inexcusable, especially when a lap on that track takes 1 minute.
I was on the large track at this facility when I had an issue with one of their flaggers. There is a large tabletop near the starting gate where you would be jumping away from the gate. I think its the largest jump on the track. I came over that table top and damn near landed on a downed rider who was being tended to by the guy they have floating around on a quad. There was no flag, and I didn't see it come out until 2-3 corners later. That guy had to have been down for a decent amount of time for the floater to have already made it over there. Having flaggers is great, but just like the riders, they need to be trained.
With that level of negligence they are probably on par with AMA Pro Motocross flaggers.
I don’t put it on the flaggers at all. My gripe isn’t with them. My problem is with inbred fellow riders thinking it’s ok to line up on a landing like it’s a parking lot of a live track.
Both can be true. My experience outlined above is unacceptable and honestly so is a spot flagger on that vet track not hustling over there.
But yeah, riders need to have some common sense when tending to a downed rider or directing traffic. You get a lot of guys out there who just don't know the rules of the road and it can be dangerous. It'd be nice if there was some way to convey that information to them in a meaningful way maybe you can force them to watch a "riders meeting" video before the practice. Outline general etiquette, what to do when someone is down, what holding your line means, and not crossjumping etc. It'd at least be something. If I have to sign a waiver three times to signup to practice then I can also watch a short video. It'd be easy to make with AI now.
I'll never forget the time I saw two dudes parked on the downside of a blind tabletop just having a chat. Some people are real dingbats.
I keep a small yellow flag tucked behind my front number plate and i am like a first responder flagger
You must be talking about the Field of Dreams vet track which is super tame. No serious jumps at all on that track. It is more of a beginners track than a vet track. Agree, they don't have many flaggers on that track as most all jumps are so small that they are easy to see over. They have plenty of flaggers on their big track.
I certainly agree on the stupidity of some riders, but there is no cure for that. Compared to 10 to 20 years ago, you have more mixing of fast and slow riders in ALL the classes. There is no problem with a slow guy that keeps to his lines and stays off to the side if he is not going to jump something, but we have too many people who will completely roll a 4th gear booter jump with a blind landing, in first or second gear, RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE! The vet class has become the most crowded class, mainly because the age range is too great and goes against the idea of putting certain types of riders together in the same class. Vet classes should be for experienced riders aged 40+. C class for beginners regardless of age. A and B class for riders for riders that are experienced, fast enough to jump everything and either less than 40 years of age or >40 years of age and very fast. These days we see guys rolling simple jumps in B class and lots of guys whipping it totally flat over every jump in C class. Years ago, you didn't see such discrepancy across the classes, for some reason.
Agreed on all. Vet should be experienced older predictable. Not a junk drawer of brand new to vet pro levels.
But that goes to our class system in general and what I’m saying; we just let everyone do whatever.
No qualifying; no training, no anything:
What class are you? Uhhhhh A. (Slow as molasses rolls 3/5 of the track)
What class are you? Uhhhhhh C (haiden deegan amateur level fast shredding scrubbing rev limiter)
And that’s the extent of our efforts to group people.
Have you checked out the liability waivers recently? We have two tracks nearby, NHMX in Lempster (used to be Jolly Rogers) and MX101 in Epping. Rode MX101 for years and took some time off. Got a YZ250F last summer with the intention of going back to these tracks but they recently updated the liability waiver. They are generally well run but health insurance subrogation could make this a shitshow.
Can't imagine this would hold up in court but man. Directly from the day rider waiver.
http://www.mx101.us/home.html
10. I agree to cover all legal fees incurred by property owners from any claims I may bring forth, regardless of outcome, without limit
12. I fully agree to cover all legal fees, reasonable time and wages fees, and any and all costs associated with any litigation I bring forth.
13. I agree to pay $100,000 non-refundable fee to NHMX101 LLC should I bring forth any lawsuits or claims successfully or unsuccessfully.
Not saying no to riding there anymore but it makes you think.
Pit Row
I would not sign that waiver..... You don't control what an insurance carrier does in a subrogation action and that action would be brought on your behalf such that those conditions may apply.
Agreed. I spoke with a lawyer friend about this and he said that a judge would likely throw this out but it would be after spending a lot in legal fees. Obviously no guarantees and a stressful pain in the ass.
I dislocated my shoulder this past summer (slipped on stairs) and had to go to urgent care to get it put back in. A month or so later we started getting letters from the insurance company wanting to know what happened. Really made me think about what could go wrong if I was at the track and got landed on or something dumb happened and got taken away in the ambulance.
Now I'm looking at the Canaan Lions track in Canaan NH. Pretty boring track but they run a family friendly racing series. A bit farther away but no crazy liability waivers.
See something dumb every time at the track. I love the sport and have met some truly amazing people doing it, but we have got to be some of the dumbest mfers sometimes
People are always looking for a hack or edge or differentiator.
The hack is - be responsible. It’s so foreign in our day, age, and country.
Be responsible. Generally speaking, it’s boring and easy to do and requires little effort. Doing this one simple thing will put you ahead of 99% of others.
Man, they could have at least laid a bike or two on the face of the jump if they felt it necessary to tend to the downed rider immediately. People do really crazy things in high stress situations. A lot of people aren’t firing on all cylinders when they’re stressed.
I guess I have learned over the decades to ride for the environment, meaning everything and everyone is an obstacle. If there are slow riders big or small, back it down or pull off till they get tired and pull off, or just go somewhere else. Some guys feel like everyone should just get off the track, everyone paid the same. Sorry but an open practice is not the place to be going for lap records.
Dude so you’re saying you’d have to roll essentially every single jump as nearly all landings are blind.
I’m with you that I give other riders a ton of leash and don’t trust them at all, give them space to get sketchy and don’t commit to passes or jumps unless there’s 4x the space needed.
But to say it how you said it makes it seem ridiculous.
Yeah nobody was going for lap times, and we all very nearly got in a bad situation because they’re completely incompetent. Not because we pushed the envelope.
Open practice days with that many on the track, depending on track size would suck, I most likely wouldn't even went out. But I have many times went out on a track and rolled all the jumps cuz there was just nowhere safe to jump any of them.
He's saying that you need to keep your head on a swivel. Guy in front of you looks a little squirrelly or is slow then don't pass him on a jump etc. If you're in a pack of riders slow down and let them pass or just get around them quickly so you can be on your own.
That aside, where did this occur on the vet track? I can't think of a jump on that track that is truly blind because they are all so small. If you're looking ahead you'd see downed riders and/or bikes on the landings.
face it, some folks never received good home training.....
Post a reply to: Almost had a big one yesterday. Big lesson.