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There’s quite a bit more to it than population, otherwise the MXoN would be nothing more than a back and forth between India and China for who would win each year……
And the US would be extremely competitive in cricket!
I think he got back on the Yamaha 125 in ‘81…forced to, that is…& as I recall…he was PISSED. I think he got on 250s in ‘78 & had no plans of goin’ back to 125s. Yamaha kinda fucked him over on that deal.
So…it was 6 years?
The bike was an RA125. Works stuff…based on GP rules.
They passed over. (FOR THE SECOND TIME, I think?) the reigning 125 2 Time Champion Bad Ass…Micky Diamond…and, like Bob in ‘81…Micky was PISSED…and, let’s be clear…it was allllllll “moto politics”.
Anyways, Bob had a helluva time on that bike in the Unadilla mud 🤣
Exotic factory equipment is part of setup. If works parts had no value, manufacturers wouldn’t be making any.
There’s a reason why the factory backed teams don’t race bikes straight off the showroom floor.
To loop back to the original point, are the American teams not allowed to use the fuel that they’ve spent months, and even years, using to try to get their tuning just right? There’s a less than zero chance of that not making some difference. How much? Hard to say but Mitch hasn’t been a real excuse maker as a team owner, I don’t think he’s simply inventing something out of thin air now.
It's true that you don't hear a peep about the challenges of the international teams or riders. We only hear about why America couldn't win. Is someone going to try and tell me that Team Latvia didn't have any rider or bike challenges? That's funny!
I don't know if they did, but I am assuming they didn't just waltz into the MXON with everything in their favor.
And Haiden Deegan could be wiping his butt with $100 bills and not care but he wants money to show up. The passion is gone.
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This ONLY applies to mx but...
There are are so many non US riders racing in America that I just don't have an us vs them mentality anymore.
Yeah it does my head in when people talk about this. The GP paddock is not full of prototype works bikes that are on a whole other level compared to the US production based bikes.
Firstly, running a full proto bike is most likely much more expensive than running a production bike. And the GP teams aren't swimming in Euros as we all know.
Secondly, the works bikes are usually just the OEMs running the next gen bike a year early. Like Honda in 2026, KTM with Adamo in the latter part of 2026, Kawasaki with Febvre in 2023.
And sure, KTM group has traditionally had frame options that works well on deep sand for their riders. But MXdN hasn't been on a pure sand track for years, my guess is that 5 out of 6 events are on loamy or hard pack dirt.
So this is just yet another nothing discussion by people living in the past.
And if this is such a big issue, why don't Mitch Payton & Co lobby for changes within AMA?
Someone gets it.
Overwhelming numbers, about 30 to 1. I agree with you on extenuating circumstances, but the numbers are overwhelming.
Where is the American Spirit?
It’s at the ISDE where the Club team riders pretty much have to foot the entire bill to get there.
Club riders have to pay for their own moto vacation? How tragic.
Why do so many f1 drivers come from Scandinavian countries? Tiny populations and yet several elite f1 superstars. Shouldn’t they all be from New York since population and odds…
The "American Spirit" vanished about the same time the word "Patriot" became a cuss word.
Is there a lot of F1 training facilities and trainers in the USA? Because there is a lot of MX trainers and training facilities in the USA, more than Europe. Or a lot of F1 cars sold in the USA? Because the USA is the #1 market in the world for MX bikes. Or is there any racing series for F1 cars in the USA? Again the USA supposedly has the most prestigious mx series in the world, including huge amateur events. You can't compare F1 to mx, by any metric American racers should have every advantage over Euro kids.
If you’re asking if there’s a lot of interest and demand for racing in America…. Yes. Would many Americans want to be in the most highly paid pinnacle of racing, in F1 hmmm ya think maybe lol?
Incredible insight.
And wait a moment I thought population was all that mattered? Why are you adding in all these crazy qualifiers?
Anyways lololol
Yes. Dymond got passed over twice.
We had a couple local guys running the Brazilian Nationals in the mid 80’s. Rodney Smith and Chris Neal. Honda sent Micky Dymond to race the Brazilian GP on a works Honda as a final tune up for MXdN. They told him if he wins he is in for MXdN. Well, he won both motos by over 30 seconds. I believe Rodney Smith was 2nd overall. Anyway, they still gave it to Hannah, who to be fair, was a legend at Unadilla. Dymond was no slouch at Unadilla either, podiumed several GP’s there.
Have you seen any numbers that make you think that?
Sure US market is larger than Europe's, by 25-30%. From what I've seen, France alone has almost as many MX tracks as the US (600 vs 800), Europe has 2 or 3 times more tracks (+2000) than the US.
I don't have detailed numbers for Europe (probably north of 200 000 riders) but in France we have 70 000 riders with a federal MX license, half of them with the competition license so that's 35 000 racers, the other half are just doing practice sessions for fun.
I don't know the numbers for the US and of course racing is organized differently, all I can say is that 1/1000 of our population actively rides dirtbikes, and half of them are racing.
it was 1982 bob raced the 125's........Yamaha wet the bed in 82.......Bob probably would have won the 250 MX title and Broc probably would have won the 500 MX title if they had raced those classes. it was a dumb move to put them in the 125 and 250 classes, respectively.
who knows, Bob may have finished his career on Yamahas if that had happened
Is it really that hard to distinguish the difference between Australia and New Zealand? Cole isnt Australian
Pit Row
Now more than ever... we are in a horrible state of being... from the TOP down....
Nobody has a problem with the word Patriot its what's being done under its name people are brake-checking
Euros market share is within 25% - 30% of USA's is believable, I would guess there are other comparable figures. But that is all of Europe, not separate nations like the MXoN. And Frances 70000 racers seems outstanding for a country it's size and wealth.
It's all about the culture.
Went to check Latvia (don't know the place, please chime in), apparently there are about 20 MX tracks.
US have 1 track for every 450 000 inhabitants, France has 1 to 115 000, Latvia has 1 to 90 000.
So Latvia has about 5 times more MX tracks than the US when compared to their respective population!
And of course in Latvia, pretty much everyone lives next to a MX track. Half of the population lives in and around Riga with at least 4 MX tracks within 1h drive.
Belgium has 3 tracks left and they won.
Could also be the mass vaccinations, chemicals in the food and chemicals in our water keeping us sick, allergic, immunocompromised not living to our best potential.
America is one of the most poisoned and sickest country there is
You hear it from the euros when they move here how lousy they feel from our food.
That's really a larger issue. American health standards are obviously in the shitter. And if you feel weird or anxious about the whole set-up, here's your favorite pharmaceutical product to numb you and make you accept it.
In fact, the only ads I see on Peacock when I watch SX are for pharm drugs. Even in the 90s it was ads about motorcycles and targeted to active young people, not invalids.
My daughter is 12 and laughs how ridiculous it is when the side-effects take longer to list than the so-called benefits in these commercials.
Getting back to moto, I think the American malaise is real and has drifted into the moto world. Webb's MXON video was cool, but it was more like a farewell tour. We have lost our bite when it comes to international moto. Like I said, American riders used to rabidly defend the U.S. honor on the world stage. Now we have drifted into apathy. Nothing against the riders that went this year- they gave it their all.
The point is when current riders grew up there were many more tracks. And of course they have so many tracks available in nearby France, Netherlands or Germany.
Culture creates opportunities. True it's in danger of declining in Belgium at the moment but they would not have so many strong riders right now without their racing heritage nor without past champions still heavily involved in the sport.
If a rider who runs away from facing the GP boys every year is seen as the best example of american "grit", then it's easy to see where the problem is.
The 3 guys who stepped up for the US this year are the ones who have grit.
So move to Europe.
How does Norway do so well in the winter Olympics for such a small country? How does the USA do so well in the winter Olympics when al it's people are poisoned by the food water and vaccinations?
As for MXdN, in the 80s the Americans were just better at riding. A lot of this came about because of the surge of motorcycling in the 70s among the boomer youth combined with harder times in Europe and a significant negative influence of Soviet Russia. The 90s and early 2000s saw some weird logistical issues but the US riders were still the best. The late 2000s and 2010s saw the Ryans put on a clinic. Since then the European and Pacific riders have taken a step up to match and exceed US riders.
I don't have a lot of confidence that the leaders of the US MX industry (not the promotors) will be righting the ship anytime soon though.
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