Where is the American Spirit?

APLMAN99
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10/11/2026 7:50pm
Moto Nomad wrote:
I have nothing against Latvia. It's just that a country with 350 million people and the best racers in the world should probably be able to...

I have nothing against Latvia. It's just that a country with 350 million people and the best racers in the world should probably be able to easily beat a country with 2 million people and a motocross community that is a tiny fraction of what is in the U.S. Have there been any prominent moto riders from Latvia? I haven't heard of any. 

You should consider that the 350 million Americans are largely anti-motorcycle and most are definitely not interested in dirt biking. Belgium only has about 12 million...

You should consider that the 350 million Americans are largely anti-motorcycle and most are definitely not interested in dirt biking. Belgium only has about 12 million people… we have cities bigger than that… but they have been a dominant force in MX for decades. It has nothing to do with a country’s size or borders and everything to do with the culture.

Spoonguy wrote:
Odds are a country of 350 million can have 3 people better at anything chosen than a country of 12 million does. It just makes mathematical...

Odds are a country of 350 million can have 3 people better at anything chosen than a country of 12 million does. It just makes mathematical sense, even take out total population, how many mx bikes are in Latvia vs. USA, how many mx bike dealers, how many tracks, the odds are stacked against any European country competing against the USA. Herlings even stated USA riders are paid more.

There’s quite a bit more to it than population, otherwise the MXoN would be nothing more than a back and forth between India and China for who would win each year……

And the US would be extremely competitive in cricket!

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TeamGreen
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10/11/2026 7:54pm
The Moth wrote:

Apparently GB has not had that fight in their dogs since 1994. 

ksithumper wrote:
Well, our best current 450 rider didn't want to come out to play either, so we have that in common. My point isn't actually about the performance...

Well, our best current 450 rider didn't want to come out to play either, so we have that in common. 

My point isn't actually about the performance of the riders individually on the day - rather the culture that has seemingly developed in the US, among some fans at least, of making excuses. "Wrong fuel/ not enough time on the bikes/never rode a 250 before/Forato knocked me off/we don't ride tracks like this/we never get good gate picks/ this race is irrelevant and we shouldn't go" etc etc etc It's totally the wrong mindset. Seewer rode a 250 for the first time in years, ditto Coldenhoff. Everts rode a 450 that was initially unmanageable and had to detune it every ride. None of them had much testing. They relished, and positively attacked, the challenge - and their fans recognise that.

Webb was class and showed great leadership, he did pretty much as well as could be expected. You need more Webbs, more Tomacs, who dig deep and never, ever give up even in the last seconds. Check out Herlings or Febvre. Absolute pride and self belief - WANTING it. Thats how you win. (And yeah, you need luck too, most years).

Hannah raced an RM125 in 1987 MXdN, five years since he last raced one in a series. He didn't complain or make excuses. I hear so much...

Hannah raced an RM125 in 1987 MXdN, five years since he last raced one in a series. He didn't complain or make excuses. 

I hear so much whining and gnashing of teeth over on this side of the pond, and I don't think that culture is changing anytime soon. We've a lot of work to do and as long as we have private tracks and the cult of personality at the helm, nothing will change anytime soon. 

I think he got back on the Yamaha 125 in ‘81…forced to, that is…& as I recall…he was PISSED. I think he got on 250s in ‘78 & had no plans of goin’ back to 125s. Yamaha kinda fucked him over on that deal. 
So…it was 6 years?

The bike was an RA125. Works stuff…based on GP rules. 

They passed over. (FOR THE SECOND TIME, I think?) the reigning 125 2 Time Champion Bad Ass…Micky Diamond…and, like Bob in ‘81…Micky was PISSED…and, let’s be clear…it was allllllll “moto politics”. 

Anyways, Bob had a helluva time on that bike in the Unadilla mud 🤣

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APLMAN99
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10/11/2026 7:58pm
He did say he never felt comfortable on the bike...Kawasaki has a reputation for not being unwilling to set the bike up to their riders liking...

He did say he never felt comfortable on the bike...

image 3927

Kawasaki has a reputation for not being unwilling to set the bike up to their riders liking, that's a people issue, not a bike issue.

APLMAN99 wrote:

Wait, why would being ‘comfortable’ on the bike even be an issue?  I thought that the ‘stuff’ didn’t matter? 

😎

Setup matters, exotic factory equipment (stuff) doesn't make the difference, the rider does.

Exotic factory equipment is part of setup. If works parts had no value, manufacturers wouldn’t be making any. 

There’s a reason why the factory backed teams don’t race bikes straight off the showroom floor. 

To loop back to the original point, are the American teams not allowed to use the fuel that they’ve spent months, and even years, using to try to get their tuning just right?  There’s a less than zero chance of that not making some difference. How much?  Hard to say but Mitch hasn’t been a real excuse maker as a team owner, I don’t think he’s simply inventing something out of thin air now. 

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Moto Nomad
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10/11/2026 8:11pm Edited Date/Time 10/11/2026 8:42pm
ksithumper wrote:

Even Mitch is whining now, apparently it's all because the US can't use race fuel.

BS. Just need more fight in your dogs.

 

The Moth wrote:

Apparently GB has not had that fight in their dogs since 1994. 

ksithumper wrote:
Well, our best current 450 rider didn't want to come out to play either, so we have that in common. My point isn't actually about the performance...

Well, our best current 450 rider didn't want to come out to play either, so we have that in common. 

My point isn't actually about the performance of the riders individually on the day - rather the culture that has seemingly developed in the US, among some fans at least, of making excuses. "Wrong fuel/ not enough time on the bikes/never rode a 250 before/Forato knocked me off/we don't ride tracks like this/we never get good gate picks/ this race is irrelevant and we shouldn't go" etc etc etc It's totally the wrong mindset. Seewer rode a 250 for the first time in years, ditto Coldenhoff. Everts rode a 450 that was initially unmanageable and had to detune it every ride. None of them had much testing. They relished, and positively attacked, the challenge - and their fans recognise that.

Webb was class and showed great leadership, he did pretty much as well as could be expected. You need more Webbs, more Tomacs, who dig deep and never, ever give up even in the last seconds. Check out Herlings or Febvre. Absolute pride and self belief - WANTING it. Thats how you win. (And yeah, you need luck too, most years).

It's true that you don't hear a peep about the challenges of the international teams or riders. We only hear about why America couldn't win. Is someone going to try and tell me that Team Latvia didn't have any rider or bike challenges? That's funny!

I don't know if they did, but I am assuming they didn't just waltz into the MXON with everything in their favor. 

And Haiden Deegan could be wiping his butt with $100 bills and not care but he wants money to show up. The passion is gone.

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The Shop

10/11/2026 9:36pm Edited Date/Time 10/11/2026 9:38pm

This ONLY applies to mx but...

There are are so many non US riders racing in America that I just don't have an us vs them mentality anymore. 

 

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Motofinne
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10/11/2026 10:33pm
Press516 wrote:
He’s looking to balance out the bike advantages in MXGP.  The AMA rules are wildly more production based.  He feels that they get to use works...

He’s looking to balance out the bike advantages in MXGP.  The AMA rules are wildly more production based.  He feels that they get to use works bikes with lots more custom and hand made parts and would like to offset that by running the better AMA fuel.  It’s a viable discussion.  But won’t ever happen.

ando wrote:
There’s plenty of evidence around that GP bikes aren’t the exotic full works machines that they used to be.Australia hadn’t had a problem winning MXoN the...

There’s plenty of evidence around that GP bikes aren’t the exotic full works machines that they used to be.

Australia hadn’t had a problem winning MXoN the last two years on AMA spec bikes.

Tumic wrote:
When Zacho and Anderson raced in Lommel they had an option to race the GP bikes. They tested them and settled for their AMA spec bikes.Different...

When Zacho and Anderson raced in Lommel they had an option to race the GP bikes. They tested them and settled for their AMA spec bikes.


Different is not always better. The GP works bikes is getting blown out of proportion right now. They are more pre-production bikes than the ultra advanced bikes we saw in the 80’s.

For example Febvre won his GP title on a stock framed Kawasaki and the US fan base are trying to make it sound like he was on a space ship while Prado raced a bicycle.


As you said, the Lawrence’s have done a pretty good job for years now displaying that the US spec bikes got more than enough to win. 

The problem for the US riders is that they are just training on perfectly groomed tracks with good traction, ”softer” bumps on their tracks and never race real sand.

So when the Des Nations is held in Europe the bikes are either to stiff and not used to the shitty hard packed conditions or deep sand that most of them have never seen. 

So people don’t make this about the bikes.

Yeah it does my head in when people talk about this. The GP paddock is not full of prototype works bikes that are on a whole other level compared to the US production based bikes.

Firstly, running a full proto bike is most likely much more expensive than running a production bike. And the GP teams aren't swimming in Euros as we all know.

Secondly, the works bikes are usually just the OEMs running the next gen bike a year early. Like Honda in 2026, KTM with Adamo in the latter part of 2026, Kawasaki with Febvre in 2023.

And sure, KTM group has traditionally had frame options that works well on deep sand for their riders. But MXdN hasn't been on a pure sand track for years, my guess is that 5 out of 6 events are on loamy or hard pack dirt.

So this is just yet another nothing discussion by people living in the past.
And if this is such a big issue, why don't Mitch Payton & Co lobby for changes within AMA? 

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10/12/2026 12:17am
Hannah raced an RM125 in 1987 MXdN, five years since he last raced one in a series. He didn't complain or make excuses. I hear so much...

Hannah raced an RM125 in 1987 MXdN, five years since he last raced one in a series. He didn't complain or make excuses. 

I hear so much whining and gnashing of teeth over on this side of the pond, and I don't think that culture is changing anytime soon. We've a lot of work to do and as long as we have private tracks and the cult of personality at the helm, nothing will change anytime soon. 

Someone gets it.

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Spoonguy
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10/12/2026 3:47am
You should consider that the 350 million Americans are largely anti-motorcycle and most are definitely not interested in dirt biking. Belgium only has about 12 million...

You should consider that the 350 million Americans are largely anti-motorcycle and most are definitely not interested in dirt biking. Belgium only has about 12 million people… we have cities bigger than that… but they have been a dominant force in MX for decades. It has nothing to do with a country’s size or borders and everything to do with the culture.

Spoonguy wrote:
Odds are a country of 350 million can have 3 people better at anything chosen than a country of 12 million does. It just makes mathematical...

Odds are a country of 350 million can have 3 people better at anything chosen than a country of 12 million does. It just makes mathematical sense, even take out total population, how many mx bikes are in Latvia vs. USA, how many mx bike dealers, how many tracks, the odds are stacked against any European country competing against the USA. Herlings even stated USA riders are paid more.

I disagree. Those odds only work if all else is equal, and it clearly isn’t. You can’t just gloss over advantages and disadvantages because numbers.

Overwhelming numbers, about 30 to 1. I agree with you on extenuating circumstances, but the numbers are overwhelming. 

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Layton
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10/12/2026 4:57am

Where is the American Spirit?


It’s at the ISDE where the Club team riders pretty much have to foot the entire bill to get there. 



 

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3strokemx
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10/12/2026 5:22am
Layton wrote:

Where is the American Spirit?


It’s at the ISDE where the Club team riders pretty much have to foot the entire bill to get there. 



 

Club riders have to pay for their own moto vacation?  How tragic.

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30minmotos
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10/12/2026 5:57am
Moto Nomad wrote:
I have nothing against Latvia. It's just that a country with 350 million people and the best racers in the world should probably be able to...

I have nothing against Latvia. It's just that a country with 350 million people and the best racers in the world should probably be able to easily beat a country with 2 million people and a motocross community that is a tiny fraction of what is in the U.S. Have there been any prominent moto riders from Latvia? I haven't heard of any. 

You should consider that the 350 million Americans are largely anti-motorcycle and most are definitely not interested in dirt biking. Belgium only has about 12 million...

You should consider that the 350 million Americans are largely anti-motorcycle and most are definitely not interested in dirt biking. Belgium only has about 12 million people… we have cities bigger than that… but they have been a dominant force in MX for decades. It has nothing to do with a country’s size or borders and everything to do with the culture.

Spoonguy wrote:
Odds are a country of 350 million can have 3 people better at anything chosen than a country of 12 million does. It just makes mathematical...

Odds are a country of 350 million can have 3 people better at anything chosen than a country of 12 million does. It just makes mathematical sense, even take out total population, how many mx bikes are in Latvia vs. USA, how many mx bike dealers, how many tracks, the odds are stacked against any European country competing against the USA. Herlings even stated USA riders are paid more.

Why do so many f1 drivers come from Scandinavian countries? Tiny populations and yet several elite f1 superstars. Shouldn’t they all be from New York since population and odds…

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davistld01
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10/12/2026 6:49am

The "American Spirit" vanished about the same time the word "Patriot" became a cuss word.

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Spoonguy
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You should consider that the 350 million Americans are largely anti-motorcycle and most are definitely not interested in dirt biking. Belgium only has about 12 million...

You should consider that the 350 million Americans are largely anti-motorcycle and most are definitely not interested in dirt biking. Belgium only has about 12 million people… we have cities bigger than that… but they have been a dominant force in MX for decades. It has nothing to do with a country’s size or borders and everything to do with the culture.

Spoonguy wrote:
Odds are a country of 350 million can have 3 people better at anything chosen than a country of 12 million does. It just makes mathematical...

Odds are a country of 350 million can have 3 people better at anything chosen than a country of 12 million does. It just makes mathematical sense, even take out total population, how many mx bikes are in Latvia vs. USA, how many mx bike dealers, how many tracks, the odds are stacked against any European country competing against the USA. Herlings even stated USA riders are paid more.

30minmotos wrote:
Why do so many f1 drivers come from Scandinavian countries? Tiny populations and yet several elite f1 superstars. Shouldn’t they all be from New York since...

Why do so many f1 drivers come from Scandinavian countries? Tiny populations and yet several elite f1 superstars. Shouldn’t they all be from New York since population and odds…

Is there a lot of F1 training facilities and trainers in the USA? Because there is a lot of MX trainers and training facilities in the USA, more than Europe. Or a lot of F1 cars sold in the USA? Because the USA is the #1 market in the world for MX bikes. Or is there any racing series for F1 cars in the USA? Again the USA supposedly has the most prestigious mx series in the world, including huge amateur events. You can't compare F1 to mx, by any metric American racers should have every advantage over Euro kids.

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30minmotos
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10/12/2026 8:33am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2026 8:34am
Spoonguy wrote:
Is there a lot of F1 training facilities and trainers in the USA? Because there is a lot of MX trainers and training facilities in the...

Is there a lot of F1 training facilities and trainers in the USA? Because there is a lot of MX trainers and training facilities in the USA, more than Europe. Or a lot of F1 cars sold in the USA? Because the USA is the #1 market in the world for MX bikes. Or is there any racing series for F1 cars in the USA? Again the USA supposedly has the most prestigious mx series in the world, including huge amateur events. You can't compare F1 to mx, by any metric American racers should have every advantage over Euro kids.

If you’re asking if there’s a lot of interest and demand for racing in America…. Yes. Would many Americans want to be in the most highly paid pinnacle of racing, in F1 hmmm ya think maybe lol?


Incredible insight. 

And wait a moment I thought population was all that mattered? Why are you adding in all these crazy qualifiers?


Anyways lololol

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10/12/2026 8:40am
TeamGreen wrote:
I think he got back on the Yamaha 125 in ‘81…forced to, that is…& as I recall…he was PISSED. I think he got on 250s in...

I think he got back on the Yamaha 125 in ‘81…forced to, that is…& as I recall…he was PISSED. I think he got on 250s in ‘78 & had no plans of goin’ back to 125s. Yamaha kinda fucked him over on that deal. 
So…it was 6 years?

The bike was an RA125. Works stuff…based on GP rules. 

They passed over. (FOR THE SECOND TIME, I think?) the reigning 125 2 Time Champion Bad Ass…Micky Diamond…and, like Bob in ‘81…Micky was PISSED…and, let’s be clear…it was allllllll “moto politics”. 

Anyways, Bob had a helluva time on that bike in the Unadilla mud 🤣

Yes. Dymond got passed over twice.

We had a couple local guys running the Brazilian Nationals in the mid 80’s. Rodney Smith and Chris Neal. Honda sent Micky Dymond to race the Brazilian GP on a works Honda as a final tune up for MXdN. They told him if he wins he is in for MXdN. Well, he won both motos by over 30 seconds. I believe Rodney Smith was 2nd overall. Anyway, they still gave it to Hannah, who to be fair, was a legend at Unadilla. Dymond was no slouch at Unadilla either, podiumed several GP’s there. 

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Beagle
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10/12/2026 9:07am
Spoonguy wrote:
Is there a lot of F1 training facilities and trainers in the USA? Because there is a lot of MX trainers and training facilities in the...

Is there a lot of F1 training facilities and trainers in the USA? Because there is a lot of MX trainers and training facilities in the USA, more than Europe. Or a lot of F1 cars sold in the USA? Because the USA is the #1 market in the world for MX bikes. Or is there any racing series for F1 cars in the USA? Again the USA supposedly has the most prestigious mx series in the world, including huge amateur events. You can't compare F1 to mx, by any metric American racers should have every advantage over Euro kids.

Have you seen any numbers that make you think that?

Sure US market is larger than Europe's, by 25-30%. From what I've seen, France alone has almost as many MX tracks as the US (600 vs 800), Europe has 2 or 3 times more tracks (+2000) than the US.

I don't have detailed numbers for Europe (probably north of 200 000 riders) but in France we have 70 000 riders with a federal MX license, half of them with the competition license so that's 35 000 racers, the other half are just doing practice sessions for fun.

I don't know the numbers for the US and of course racing is organized differently, all I can say is that 1/1000 of our population actively rides dirtbikes, and half of them are racing.

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Wo Phat
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10/12/2026 10:23am
ksithumper wrote:
Well, our best current 450 rider didn't want to come out to play either, so we have that in common. My point isn't actually about the performance...

Well, our best current 450 rider didn't want to come out to play either, so we have that in common. 

My point isn't actually about the performance of the riders individually on the day - rather the culture that has seemingly developed in the US, among some fans at least, of making excuses. "Wrong fuel/ not enough time on the bikes/never rode a 250 before/Forato knocked me off/we don't ride tracks like this/we never get good gate picks/ this race is irrelevant and we shouldn't go" etc etc etc It's totally the wrong mindset. Seewer rode a 250 for the first time in years, ditto Coldenhoff. Everts rode a 450 that was initially unmanageable and had to detune it every ride. None of them had much testing. They relished, and positively attacked, the challenge - and their fans recognise that.

Webb was class and showed great leadership, he did pretty much as well as could be expected. You need more Webbs, more Tomacs, who dig deep and never, ever give up even in the last seconds. Check out Herlings or Febvre. Absolute pride and self belief - WANTING it. Thats how you win. (And yeah, you need luck too, most years).

Hannah raced an RM125 in 1987 MXdN, five years since he last raced one in a series. He didn't complain or make excuses. I hear so much...

Hannah raced an RM125 in 1987 MXdN, five years since he last raced one in a series. He didn't complain or make excuses. 

I hear so much whining and gnashing of teeth over on this side of the pond, and I don't think that culture is changing anytime soon. We've a lot of work to do and as long as we have private tracks and the cult of personality at the helm, nothing will change anytime soon. 

TeamGreen wrote:
I think he got back on the Yamaha 125 in ‘81…forced to, that is…& as I recall…he was PISSED. I think he got on 250s in...

I think he got back on the Yamaha 125 in ‘81…forced to, that is…& as I recall…he was PISSED. I think he got on 250s in ‘78 & had no plans of goin’ back to 125s. Yamaha kinda fucked him over on that deal. 
So…it was 6 years?

The bike was an RA125. Works stuff…based on GP rules. 

They passed over. (FOR THE SECOND TIME, I think?) the reigning 125 2 Time Champion Bad Ass…Micky Diamond…and, like Bob in ‘81…Micky was PISSED…and, let’s be clear…it was allllllll “moto politics”. 

Anyways, Bob had a helluva time on that bike in the Unadilla mud 🤣

it was 1982 bob raced the 125's........Yamaha wet the bed in 82.......Bob probably would have won the 250 MX title and Broc probably would have won the 500 MX title if they had raced those classes. it was a dumb move to put them in the 125 and 250 classes, respectively.

who knows, Bob may have finished his career on Yamahas if that had happened

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Chris_Buehler
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10/12/2026 11:00am
What were some of the other countries who didn’t send their “first string” riders? 🤔Australia - Hunter and Jett Lawrence, Cole Davies?Germany - Ken Roczen, Simon...

What were some of the other countries who didn’t send their “first string” riders? 🤔

Australia - Hunter and Jett Lawrence, Cole Davies?
Germany - Ken Roczen, Simon Langanfelder? 
Japan - Jo Shimoda?

 

Is it really that hard to distinguish the difference between Australia and New Zealand? Cole isnt Australian

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MrMoto
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10/12/2026 11:51am
Love my country but clear for last twenty years (half my life) that maybe we’ve been fed a lot of BS while we’ve been quietly robbed...

Love my country but clear for last twenty years (half my life) that maybe we’ve been fed a lot of BS while we’ve been quietly robbed blind. Youth sees it for what it is. Blind patriotism is silly. No patriotism is dangerous. In MX context, it’s expensive and a grind. 

Now more than ever...   we are in a horrible state of being...  from the TOP down....

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10/12/2026 11:54am
davistld01 wrote:

The "American Spirit" vanished about the same time the word "Patriot" became a cuss word.

Nobody has a problem with the word Patriot its what's being done under its name people are brake-checking 

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Spoonguy
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10/12/2026 12:26pm
Spoonguy wrote:
Is there a lot of F1 training facilities and trainers in the USA? Because there is a lot of MX trainers and training facilities in the...

Is there a lot of F1 training facilities and trainers in the USA? Because there is a lot of MX trainers and training facilities in the USA, more than Europe. Or a lot of F1 cars sold in the USA? Because the USA is the #1 market in the world for MX bikes. Or is there any racing series for F1 cars in the USA? Again the USA supposedly has the most prestigious mx series in the world, including huge amateur events. You can't compare F1 to mx, by any metric American racers should have every advantage over Euro kids.

Beagle wrote:
Have you seen any numbers that make you think that?Sure US market is larger than Europe's, by 25-30%. From what I've seen, France alone has almost...

Have you seen any numbers that make you think that?

Sure US market is larger than Europe's, by 25-30%. From what I've seen, France alone has almost as many MX tracks as the US (600 vs 800), Europe has 2 or 3 times more tracks (+2000) than the US.

I don't have detailed numbers for Europe (probably north of 200 000 riders) but in France we have 70 000 riders with a federal MX license, half of them with the competition license so that's 35 000 racers, the other half are just doing practice sessions for fun.

I don't know the numbers for the US and of course racing is organized differently, all I can say is that 1/1000 of our population actively rides dirtbikes, and half of them are racing.

Euros market share is within 25% - 30% of USA's is believable, I would guess there are other comparable figures. But that is all of Europe, not separate nations like the MXoN. And Frances 70000 racers seems outstanding for a country it's size and wealth. 

Beagle
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10/12/2026 2:49pm Edited Date/Time 10/12/2026 2:52pm
Spoonguy wrote:
Is there a lot of F1 training facilities and trainers in the USA? Because there is a lot of MX trainers and training facilities in the...

Is there a lot of F1 training facilities and trainers in the USA? Because there is a lot of MX trainers and training facilities in the USA, more than Europe. Or a lot of F1 cars sold in the USA? Because the USA is the #1 market in the world for MX bikes. Or is there any racing series for F1 cars in the USA? Again the USA supposedly has the most prestigious mx series in the world, including huge amateur events. You can't compare F1 to mx, by any metric American racers should have every advantage over Euro kids.

Beagle wrote:
Have you seen any numbers that make you think that?Sure US market is larger than Europe's, by 25-30%. From what I've seen, France alone has almost...

Have you seen any numbers that make you think that?

Sure US market is larger than Europe's, by 25-30%. From what I've seen, France alone has almost as many MX tracks as the US (600 vs 800), Europe has 2 or 3 times more tracks (+2000) than the US.

I don't have detailed numbers for Europe (probably north of 200 000 riders) but in France we have 70 000 riders with a federal MX license, half of them with the competition license so that's 35 000 racers, the other half are just doing practice sessions for fun.

I don't know the numbers for the US and of course racing is organized differently, all I can say is that 1/1000 of our population actively rides dirtbikes, and half of them are racing.

Spoonguy wrote:
Euros market share is within 25% - 30% of USA's is believable, I would guess there are other comparable figures. But that is all of Europe...

Euros market share is within 25% - 30% of USA's is believable, I would guess there are other comparable figures. But that is all of Europe, not separate nations like the MXoN. And Frances 70000 racers seems outstanding for a country it's size and wealth. 

It's all about the culture.

Went to check Latvia (don't know the place, please chime in), apparently there are about 20 MX tracks.

US have 1 track for every 450 000 inhabitants, France has 1 to 115 000, Latvia has 1 to 90 000.

So Latvia has about 5 times more MX tracks than the US when compared to their respective population! 

And of course in Latvia, pretty much everyone lives next to a MX track. Half of the population lives in and around Riga with at least 4 MX tracks within 1h drive.

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10/12/2026 4:03pm
Beagle wrote:
Have you seen any numbers that make you think that?Sure US market is larger than Europe's, by 25-30%. From what I've seen, France alone has almost...

Have you seen any numbers that make you think that?

Sure US market is larger than Europe's, by 25-30%. From what I've seen, France alone has almost as many MX tracks as the US (600 vs 800), Europe has 2 or 3 times more tracks (+2000) than the US.

I don't have detailed numbers for Europe (probably north of 200 000 riders) but in France we have 70 000 riders with a federal MX license, half of them with the competition license so that's 35 000 racers, the other half are just doing practice sessions for fun.

I don't know the numbers for the US and of course racing is organized differently, all I can say is that 1/1000 of our population actively rides dirtbikes, and half of them are racing.

Spoonguy wrote:
Euros market share is within 25% - 30% of USA's is believable, I would guess there are other comparable figures. But that is all of Europe...

Euros market share is within 25% - 30% of USA's is believable, I would guess there are other comparable figures. But that is all of Europe, not separate nations like the MXoN. And Frances 70000 racers seems outstanding for a country it's size and wealth. 

Beagle wrote:
It's all about the culture.Went to check Latvia (don't know the place, please chime in), apparently there are about 20 MX tracks.US have 1 track for...

It's all about the culture.

Went to check Latvia (don't know the place, please chime in), apparently there are about 20 MX tracks.

US have 1 track for every 450 000 inhabitants, France has 1 to 115 000, Latvia has 1 to 90 000.

So Latvia has about 5 times more MX tracks than the US when compared to their respective population! 

And of course in Latvia, pretty much everyone lives next to a MX track. Half of the population lives in and around Riga with at least 4 MX tracks within 1h drive.

Belgium has 3 tracks left and they won.

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30minmotos
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10/12/2026 4:07pm

Could also be the mass vaccinations, chemicals in the food and chemicals in our water keeping us sick, allergic, immunocompromised  not living to our best potential.


America is one of the most poisoned and sickest country there is



You hear it from the euros when they move here how lousy they feel from our food.

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Moto Nomad
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10/12/2026 7:20pm
30minmotos wrote:
Could also be the mass vaccinations, chemicals in the food and chemicals in our water keeping us sick, allergic, immunocompromised  not living to our best potential.America...

Could also be the mass vaccinations, chemicals in the food and chemicals in our water keeping us sick, allergic, immunocompromised  not living to our best potential.


America is one of the most poisoned and sickest country there is



You hear it from the euros when they move here how lousy they feel from our food.

That's really a larger issue. American health standards are obviously in the shitter. And if you feel weird or anxious about the whole set-up, here's your favorite pharmaceutical product to numb you and make you accept it.

In fact, the only ads I see on Peacock when I watch SX are for pharm drugs. Even in the 90s it was ads about motorcycles and targeted to active young people, not invalids. 

My daughter is 12 and laughs how ridiculous it is when the side-effects take longer to list than the so-called benefits in these commercials.

Getting back to moto, I think the American malaise is real and has drifted into the moto world. Webb's MXON video was cool, but it was more like a farewell tour. We have lost our bite when it comes to international moto. Like I said, American riders used to rabidly defend the U.S. honor on the world stage. Now we have drifted into apathy. Nothing against the riders that went this year- they gave it their all.

 

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Beagle
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Toulouse, FR
10/12/2026 10:22pm Edited Date/Time 10/12/2026 10:23pm
Spoonguy wrote:
Euros market share is within 25% - 30% of USA's is believable, I would guess there are other comparable figures. But that is all of Europe...

Euros market share is within 25% - 30% of USA's is believable, I would guess there are other comparable figures. But that is all of Europe, not separate nations like the MXoN. And Frances 70000 racers seems outstanding for a country it's size and wealth. 

Beagle wrote:
It's all about the culture.Went to check Latvia (don't know the place, please chime in), apparently there are about 20 MX tracks.US have 1 track for...

It's all about the culture.

Went to check Latvia (don't know the place, please chime in), apparently there are about 20 MX tracks.

US have 1 track for every 450 000 inhabitants, France has 1 to 115 000, Latvia has 1 to 90 000.

So Latvia has about 5 times more MX tracks than the US when compared to their respective population! 

And of course in Latvia, pretty much everyone lives next to a MX track. Half of the population lives in and around Riga with at least 4 MX tracks within 1h drive.

Spoonguy wrote:

Belgium has 3 tracks left and they won.

The point is when current riders grew up there were many more tracks. And of course they have so many tracks available in nearby France, Netherlands or Germany.

Culture creates opportunities. True it's in danger of declining in Belgium at the moment but they would not have so many strong riders right now without their racing heritage nor without past champions still heavily involved in the sport.

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10/13/2026 2:46am Edited Date/Time 10/13/2026 2:47am
cwel11 wrote:
This has been beat to death as of late. Two main contributing factors, we’re soft and other countries caught up. I will say I’m by far...

This has been beat to death as of late. Two main contributing factors, we’re soft and other countries caught up. I will say I’m by far one of the biggest 38 haters there is but right now he’s the only young American guy that really has grit. Which is wild to me because growing up a rich kid he should have every reason not to. Some Americans are really bothered by the fact we’re getting beat on our own soil. Personally I don’t really care what flag you fly unless it’s MXDN. The rest of the time I just want to see amazing riders doing amazing shit on dirt bikes I can only dream of doing. 

If a rider who runs away from facing the GP boys every year is seen as the best example of american "grit", then it's easy to see where the problem is.

The 3 guys who stepped up for the US this year are the ones who have grit.

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bosswool2800
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10/13/2026 4:36am
30minmotos wrote:
Could also be the mass vaccinations, chemicals in the food and chemicals in our water keeping us sick, allergic, immunocompromised  not living to our best potential.America...

Could also be the mass vaccinations, chemicals in the food and chemicals in our water keeping us sick, allergic, immunocompromised  not living to our best potential.


America is one of the most poisoned and sickest country there is



You hear it from the euros when they move here how lousy they feel from our food.

So move to Europe.

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early
Posts
10122
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Location
University Heights, OH, USA
10/13/2026 6:01am Edited Date/Time 10/13/2026 6:03am
30minmotos wrote:
Could also be the mass vaccinations, chemicals in the food and chemicals in our water keeping us sick, allergic, immunocompromised  not living to our best potential.America...

Could also be the mass vaccinations, chemicals in the food and chemicals in our water keeping us sick, allergic, immunocompromised  not living to our best potential.


America is one of the most poisoned and sickest country there is



You hear it from the euros when they move here how lousy they feel from our food.

How does Norway do so well in the winter Olympics for such a small country? How does the USA do so well in the winter Olympics when al it's people are poisoned by the food water and vaccinations?

1000054411 0

As for MXdN, in the 80s the Americans were just better at riding. A lot of this came about because of the surge of motorcycling in the 70s among the boomer youth combined with harder times in Europe and a significant negative influence of Soviet Russia. The 90s and early 2000s saw some weird logistical issues but the US riders were still the best. The late 2000s and 2010s saw the Ryans put on a clinic. Since then the European and Pacific riders have taken a step up to match and exceed US riders. 

I don't have a lot of confidence that the leaders of the US MX industry (not the promotors) will be righting the ship anytime soon though.

1000054407 0.jpg?VersionId=qNuQmy819cibxu1ufCDi9QG6tO

 

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