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Well said.
If it happened, it you write it down. If it isn't written down, it never happened....
Yes - “ if it wasn’t documented, it wasn’t done”
You’re losing this argument 99-1, but yes of course you are the smart one lol
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That kind of statement doesn't make it more or less true, you get that? Your specific argument is dead. Riders can jump against a red cross flag, and still there will be no penalty, and it would be in accordance with the rule book.
Some people have a hard time to comprehend that two things can be true, at the same time. But it is understandable. For a long time it was either 0 or 1. But it's not anymore 😄
I'm out on the debate; just interested how AMA takes this and improves the situation. It's gonna be hard; JT$ says it's too confusing for the riders already.
lol my Computer Technology professor way back in 1982 told us it was no longer binary digital with just 2 bits, it was Trinary with 3 bits. He called the 3rd bit the Woman bit- so now we have yes, no... maybe?
That's where I am.
At a minimum, they need to make it crystal clear what the rules are moving forward.
Everything in the rules, every rider sign stating they read the rules.
I would like to see it be very simple where any red = no jump, any yellow = caution.
Someone said they never tried Orange/yellow in SX. I know other AMA races outdoors have had it. Also seen Pulp/Steve comment riders complained about visibility.
Is it difficult to see in daylight?
Nothing beats a properly used flag through.
The bottom line:
IF the AMA did indeed convey the rule about the "lead-in" lights according to their own rule book, and took all required required steps to publish and inform the teams/riders...and the teams/riders didn't pay attention, didn't read the rule book, etc....then this is on the riders/teams.
IF the AMA did NOT convey the rule about the "lead-in" lights according to their own rule book, didn't take all the required steps to publish and inform the teams/riders about the rule change...then this is on the AMA, and they need to fix it.
I don't know which of those is or isn't true...but from the outside looking in...it sure looks like the AMA screwed up on this one, big time!
If there is any documentation of the AMA informing the riders/teams about this "lead-in" light rule...I'd love to see it...because as of yet, I haven't seen anything (including my personal reading of the official rule book)...If there is no documentation, I don't see how anyone can support the AMA in this decision?
Further to your two ifs... and to try and give perspective to the dude arguing from his submarine.
Neither is relevant to the real issue, which is rider and track crew safety.
You can't have a 'maybe' or 'if/and' argument on track. It HAS to be 'if/then'.
Nothing else. To flirt with maybe, or 'if/and' is to push really close to the edge of "this might work, so fuck it, I'm just gonna go for it".
I think that is the underlying issue and THEN the AMA points win/lose debacle.
I don't understand. The rules say a red light OR red cross flag may be displayed then goes on to explain how riders are to respond after either are displayed. I can't find anywhere where the rules say that a combination of red light AND red cross flag is needed before riders are to respond accordingly. Can someone please point that out to me?
I agree with you on that it should be as clear as possible. What you want cant be achieved with current flag status.
Jump or no jump, brake or accelerate, switch lines or not in whoops. Plenty of situations every race. Wasn't it ourdoors Ferrandis and AP they piled upon during yellow?
Yellow would need to be 1 wheel on ground if you want to avoid riders having to make split second decisions. Now it's "yellow waving, oh what do i do" several times per lap.
That's what the whole shit show is about. They introduced lead in lights 2024 after Jetts incident where he couldn't see the red cross flag. Riders complained about not being able to see a flag until it's to late when there are for example a steep jump face.
So warning lights (lead in) where introduced to help them. And only on appointed places depending on track. According to AMA, riders and teams where briefed about it (I know Weigant mentioned it even on TV for SMX). But it's not in the rule book.
Just looking at the rule book further and it appears that Honda can't even file a protest.
Welcome to 🤡🌎.
Honda can go race WSX if they don’t like it
But the rule book is optional
The only thing I and the AMA agree on.
I don’t think it shouldn’t be, while they do, when it suits them.
So, they make the rules, can ignore the rules, and can't be protested?
This does not sound like a professional sport the deeper we go lol.
Pit Row
>But it's not in the rule book
The only important thing about any of the drivel you've spouted on here.
IT WASN"T FUCKING SAID AT ANY RIDERS MEETING!!!! STOP IT! Where in the fuck are you getting that it was talked about in the riders meeting? Riders that were there said nothing was talked about, the section of the AMA website where it says it would be posted has nothing there. You are the only thing that seems to think this was laid down in the riders meeting.
As someone said above, they have the damn transcript of the riders meeting and there is nothing about lead in lights. Are you seriously just stupid?
It would be cool if they would add it to the Yamaha track map. "There are four Do Not Jump flashing red lights and two lead in light warnings at Daytona, located here. Riders can jump on lead in lights but not on Flashing Red lights"
But...if the lead in lights are flashing red AND a red cross flag is out, they can't jump. But, if the lead in lights are flashing red and no red cross flag is seen, they can jump. And, no jumping on a red cross unless you are in a section with lead in lights and they are not flashing red. This was all verbally communicated once last year therefore everyone should be well aware and make the correct assessment.
I just find it comical that the Riders Briefing for Arlington specifically says Red Cross Flag >>or<< red flashing lights. There it is, in writing just like the rulebook.
The Riders Briefing has no mention of "lead in" lights or any of the other stuff that the riders have supposedly been told. Unreal.
* AMA explaining the Lead-In-Light rules at riders meeting
It can be done in about 5 minutes. And it's the professional thing to do. It's pretty hilarious you're trying to gatekeep with your credentials and you're stuck in the 90s.
You post the addendum, email the teams and managers, and then, as a courtesy, send the notification of update to a slack channel populated by all team managers and/or riders.
If the AMA admit to making a mistake, by not implementing both lights AND flag at an incident, then they should pay a fine, payable to riders inconvenienced by said mistake.
In the interest of having clear and effective communication (so we aren't accused of being like some organizations), please provide the following clarification:
Are you referring to the 1890s or 1990s? (or other?)
TIA 👍
Skip to 10:55, I didn't realise how blatant the 450 flag was...
I mean, on literally any other day AMA would penalise the rider for this, WTF is going on?
https://youtu.be/nmbcBo5Ww4c?si=iYTsQ8OxPeYq4sEA&t=655
(skip to 10:55)
Jesus. Again. Reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it. It is based on that AMA has said they have informed teams and riders.
I have said the whole, time IF it has been communicated. You missing that? The comment above is still valid. What is said at rider meetings is applicable. I didn't say THEY HAVE said it, in said my GUESS is.
You can't be so stupid you think it is a transcript, you think that's the exact words only that was spoken on every rider meeting this year? Nothing else then the words in those docs was mentioned? 😄 I'm thinking riders and AMA is now teleporting since the Daytona transcript is already on the site 😅
Btw, no mentioning of lead in lights for Daytona. Wonder where they will brief about it.
Prosecutor: So "Flagman" why were you waving the Red Cross flag?
Flagman: Because I saw danger on the track that the riders couldn't see and I didn't want the riders to jump into that danger.
Prosecutor: What did you expect to happen with the waving of the flag?
Flagman: That the riders would roll the jump and nobody else would get hurt?
Prosecutor: Is this normal practice?
Flagman: Yes.
Prosecutor: So when the rider sees the red cross flag they are expected to roll the jump instead of clearing it, as to not jump into the danger?
Flagman: Yes
Prosecutor: So why would they continue to jump into danger while you were waving the red cross flag?
Flagman: Because the lead in lights were not on.
Prosecutor: Then why wave the red cross flag at all?
Flagman: .............ummmmm
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