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I really liked the rg3. The 4-post with changeable cushion stiffness and handlebar location changes is excellent imo.
I got some black TAG (I think?) triple clamps for my RM85 back in the day. I felt cool, bike felt the same.
Don’t know what Avid went with but I just put on the Ride Engineering 20.5 offset clamps. I would have went with the Luxon for the adjustable offset option but I got a good deal on the RE. First thing is vibration. I don’t think this bike can ever be like a Yamaha as far as that goes but it was the first thing I noticed that was improved. On the handling aspect it helped tremendously with turn in. So much so that I had to really get used to the way it handled. I didn’t think it would make that big of a difference. The downside which I’m not sure if Luxon or xtrig have this issue but the front number plate no longer fit the same. The top stuck out a good half inch more so I had to make modifications to the number plate. Not a huge deal but looked goofy.
Funny story, I let Billy (Luxon) use my 450 to mock up the Gen 3 Pro clamps since nobody had one for him to use at the time and when we were in the shop talking the original plan was to make them a 21-24 mm offset clamp, but I mentioned IMHO nobody on the planet will want or need a 24mm offset on the clamps with a Beta 450RX (or any beta really), so he went 20-23mm and 20mm seems to be the perfect number for that bike. MXA felt the same when they tested them on their Beta.
20mm offset at 103 sag and it's absolutely perfect.
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Awesome, thanks for the feedback! I may have to give the 20mm offset a try...after revalving the suspension, I really love the Beta. I've owned several Beta 300 woods bikes (and still have a 2023 Race Edition 300), and I think they are the best all-around dirt bikes made. Maybe the years of riding Beta's in the woods and gelling with the ergos and chassis have contributed to this, but I think the 450RX is one of the most underrated 450s on the market.
I believe your 300rr should have 20mm offset clamps. My 300RX does. I almost swapped them just to see before I bought them but I’m impatient.
Wow, duh! You are 100% correct. Thanks! I am going to try them before buying clamps to see if I like the way the offset performs (I know Billy would tell me there are other benefits not related to offset, and I completely agree...but I'm mostly concerned with the offset change).
I have high end suspension on my bike, at that point it only makes sense for me to have upgraded/split clamps to get the most out of it, as confirmed by Luxon.
You could probably change the triple clamp to steel and leave half the bolts out, with the other ones only half tight, and I wouldn't notice. But give me an adjustable clamp for bar mount position, for sure!
Do you think you can tell the difference?
Can you tell if you pull your forks up or down in the clamps? Do you even do that for specific tracks.
On a supermoto bike , we mess with stuff a lot, especially offset , and its easy to tell, because the track never changes. So you can see it in the laptime straight away.
We had 17mm offset clamps , with 1° less rake, then we had a set from ICE 17/14mm offset, and then got a set at 14/11mm and that thing turned on a dime, you could not fall off even if you tried, and everyone who rode it was amazed how stable it was with such a pulled in front end.
as JT$ said, different manufacturers do different things , Luxon seem to be decent, and i am sure they have the ability to tell you what you might need .
The most correct answer to your question is maybe.
Everyone has a different level of sensitivity and what they want to feel with the bike. Someone that’s super super sensitive to chassis feel will most definitely notice a difference. Someone that isn’t, won’t.
Personally, I threw X-Trig ROCS clamps with PHDS mounts on my bike simply to try to reduce handlebar vibrations even more. I didn’t notice much of a difference personally in the front end feel, but I’m not super sensitive to minor chassis adjustments
Unless you are already really fast, you’d get more bang (speed) for your buck, spending the money you’d spend on the clamps on riding schools…but if you just want bling, then sure, they are worth the money…
I've ran PC on 08 crf and went back to stock. Too rigid and the geometry change made the bike push.
This is my concern has I have also heard that the split clamps made the bike feel more ridged. I thought the whole point of the design was to make them feel more comfortable due to added flex, no???
Can someone tell me where a triple clamp flexes? Take a look at this as an assembly. When bolted, this is solid as a rock. Tires have flex.. Suspension, 12 inches (roughly) rubber mounted bars, small flex, your grips have some flex, How would, say 100th of a millimeter of flex be noticeable in triple clamps? I'd never believe, the weight of a human, and the bike moving at considerable pace, any 'flex', even if it did exist, to be noticeable ''oh, that's the clamps', or even measurable n track!
I’d say depends on the ride. Most of the time it’s bling for us slow guys. With the exception of 22-24 Honda’s. A 23.5 Luxon clamp on a 22-24 Honda makes a decent improvement. More stable straight line in rough stuff and corner exit. Best money I ever threw at my 23 Honda.
Personally, I feel that they were worth the money. My preferred bar position is smack dab in line with the fork tubes. The stock clamps on my YZ450 either allowed forward or behind this position which never felt comfortable. The X-trigs allow for my preferred position plus the benefits of being a more robust design that won't twist the bars if I lay the bike over. I would buy clamps over an exhaust any day.
So I see more mention of people liking their $900-1100 split clamp purchases, mainly for the better bar position?? There are top clamp options out there with more bar position options for a fraction of the cost!
Pit Row
This is actually a great example as the answer is in the photo you posted.
Those are older (10-15 years?) KTM clamps. See if you can find a photo of those same clamps, but from the bottom and it will make more sense. The bottom is hollowed out, with a largely non-sensical rib pattern. People would comment that those old KTM clamps are super stiff, but it was actually just the opposite. Those clamps are absurdly flexy, to the point where the left and right fork tubes become mis-aligned under load and bind up making everything feel harsh. They also rode like a wet noodle and lacked precision.
Now compare those to modern 2023+ KTM clamps and you'll see a big difference. The new ones are visibly much stiffer, and you rarely hear people saying the current clamps are too stiff (because the fork tubes remain better aligned under load and the bike feels plusher). This shows that KTM revised the design to increase stiffness for less flex to improve the feel of the bike. So it's clear that flex in triple clamps is a thing, and no aftermarket company was involved trying to sell you something in this example.
Now regarding how much things flex, and it not really being much, I generally agree with you. Your suspension obviously moves a lot more than your triple clamps flex. BUT, the direction of that movement is limited to one axis. Structural parts (clamps in this case) flex in the direction of the load, which is not necessarily in the same axis of the forks. In fact, it's rarely in the exact axis of the forks. So flex acts as a sort of suspension for the bumps in the directions that your forks don't move. And while the amount of flex is somewhat small, that somewhat small amount is multiplied by the rather huge lever arm that is your front end - fork length and wheel radius. A small amount of movement at the clamps is quite significant at the tire contact patch, where it really matters. So altering the clamp stiffness directly effects how much the tire moves at the ground. This is important!
Here's a FEA image of our Gen3 Pro Yamaha clamps flexing under load front to back. Those are actual deformation numbers under load in millimeters, which may not seem like much. But at the tire contact patch, there's about 21 mm of movement in this particular case (this includes fork tube flex). That's a lot and quite important to feel!
Now here's another FEA image of the same clamps, but flexing under load in torsion (twisting in the steering axis). We want to maximize stiffness here such that the front wheel is predictable and feels connected to the handlebars. Again, these are actual numbers contoured on the clamps themselves as that's what we're interested in, but this includes the effects of the whole front end to the axle (handlebars, forks, etc.).
Per my previous post, this is where most aftermarket (and OEM) clamps fall short. Few (well, likely only us) are preforming this level of analysis and optimization to maximize stiffness in the directions where it's needed and balance flex in the correct directions for comfort. A couple companies claim they're doing this: "design optimized with FEA" or whatever, but I haven't seen any of our competitors post up actual FEA images like the above, or anything suggesting that they actually do it. And if they actually did this analysis, it would be kind of silly not to use that in their marketing to promote their product...
Most aftermarket companies copy stock and guess at changes to "optimize" flex character, which is largely a nonsense marketing term these days. They may end up slightly better than stock by sheer luck or from a massive amount of guess and check testing, but it's nowhere near as good as it could be with some proper engineering. And some people ride those clamps, come away unhappy with the result, and toss out a blanket judgement on aftermarket clamps saying they're all more rigid or they can't notice a difference, which just isn't always the case across all aftermarket brands.
I'm no engineer but I was about to circle those spots on his picture. It's not hard to imagine (halfass close at least) flex points based on the direction of force being applied and where it's fastened at. Love seeing real engineering/science being used!
You're obv. a C class rider claiming you gained 2 second from an engine mount swap. I'm stating facts not theory.
Where's the video proof? You were so dialed in that you timed 32 laps with zero evidence. Yeah right... Bud lol
The only time I have ridden the same bike with two different clamps was a 2022 gasgas 250f. It came with forged clamps and in an attempt to reduce engine vibration at the bars I bought a set of ktm clamps with the rubber mounted bar mounts. I didn’t notice much difference in vibration but the ktm clamps had noticeably better front tire precision feel.
I have ridden a 2023 gasgas factory edition and also a 2023 fc250 and the gasgas felt harsher in the front despite having 6500 inserts vs aer on the Husky. Was that due to the wp split triple clamps on the factory edition bike? I don’t know.
OK, never mind everyone, please disregard what I said and listen to this guy. I have no idea what I'm talking about and am probably more like a D class rider, I suck. Is that better, pal? Can you go shit on someone else for a bit, please. Thanks and have nice day.
I have ridden with Neken clamps in the past on a 2012 KX450. Some day I mounted the stock clamps back on, and the bike performed better everywhere, especially on slap down landings. I guess this is what was happening, the clamps flexed so much that when flat landing you could feel a really harsh hit.
On another note, even thought we can all agree that separate clamping surfaces are more efficient, could feel make a difference in favor of the non split configuration? I am thinking of Chase Sexton's bike, with the old school clamps. I know, they changed forks, clamps, maybe even the front axle, but could feel contradict what engineering says? Or it is more of a placebo effect?
At Chase’s level, suspension settings need to be altered for split vs. non-split clamps. All of the settings for the PC suspension were developed around the PC non-split clamps, so they work well together. But if they were to move to a split clamp with revised settings, I’d argue that it would be better overall.
It’s also worth noting that at San Diego Chase used PC forks with the larger clamping diameter, but now he’s back to running the team forks that have a smaller clamping diameter. The fork tubes are a lot stiffer on the larger diameter PC forks, so it would be interesting to know whether he had any comments from one to the other or if they even told him that it was different.
From 2006 to 2017 I rode Suzukis and I swore by the rg3 4 post clamps. They where the last thing to break on after a crash and i guess they took away vibrations enough to reduce armpump.
On my Yz 250 I changed offset, had öhlins billet works clamps. I can’t say they felt stiffer but changing the offset on that bike changed the bike. It’s so long now so I don’t remember the change but I still have clamps left so I can look it up.
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