Vital MX 450 Shootout - Feature and QNA

11/20/2025 6:49pm
Spoonguy wrote:
Good lord, not everything is a conspiracy or plot of some kind, especially dirt bike shootouts. Save the pay off cabal theories for non moto. It's...

Good lord, not everything is a conspiracy or plot of some kind, especially dirt bike shootouts. Save the pay off cabal theories for non moto. It's just opinions on scooters boys.

Yes sir. If a guy buys a bike that is sold in his favorite color he’ll be a happy man. 

2
crmx105
Posts
615
Joined
5/7/2016
Location
Dunnellon, FL US
11/20/2025 7:04pm
28hall wrote:
A technically unchanged KTM leap frogs from third to first over an unchanged CRF450R and a technically improved YZ450F. So was last years shootout incorrect or...

A technically unchanged KTM leap frogs from third to first over an unchanged CRF450R and a technically improved YZ450F. So was last years shootout incorrect or this one? Or did ktm pony up with some extra advertising dollars to try and repair some image… 

ManInBlack wrote:
Exactly my thought as well. Great work put in for this shootout and very well put together but once I seen the top 3 and an...

Exactly my thought as well. Great work put in for this shootout and very well put together but once I seen the top 3 and an unchanged KTM in first ahead of the Honda and Yamaha, it didn't make sense to me and lost credibility. Husqvarna 6th, GasGas 5th while a VERY similar bike that's unchanged and finished 3rd last year in this shootout gets first ahead of the unchanged Honda thats excellent, finished 2nd (ahead of the KTM) in last years shootout and an improved in most ways Yamaha? Nah. Bajaj Auto sending Vital a nice size check for this one.

KTM 450 won some shootouts last year. The same track on the same day can change how a bike feels. Sounds like the KTM was the most consistent over the 3 days. Other reviews have complained about the fork on the 26 YZF 450. 

4
2
Smith246
Posts
416
Joined
1/21/2024
Location
Jerramungup , WA AU
11/20/2025 7:10pm

I think price, dealer support and looks matter the most these days. None of these bikes are going to make you any faster than you already are.

7
2
11/20/2025 8:17pm
28hall wrote:
A technically unchanged KTM leap frogs from third to first over an unchanged CRF450R and a technically improved YZ450F. So was last years shootout incorrect or...

A technically unchanged KTM leap frogs from third to first over an unchanged CRF450R and a technically improved YZ450F. So was last years shootout incorrect or this one? Or did ktm pony up with some extra advertising dollars to try and repair some image… 

If you run a scientific study over and over again you can get different results because there is chance involved. While Vital adheres to procedures like they state in their content a dirt bike shootout is less than scientific. Thats not to say it is invalid, it's useful in many ways. Said simply this years shootout has different results from last years shootout because it was a different shootout. Also their results from the 2026 shootout largely correlate with 2025 shootout results. If the Suzuki was winning in current form you'd have a point but a podium position shuffle is hardly a conspiracy or cause for concern for Vitals shootout testing quality.

3
1

The Shop

ML512
Posts
16853
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
11/20/2025 8:34pm
28hall wrote:
A technically unchanged KTM leap frogs from third to first over an unchanged CRF450R and a technically improved YZ450F. So was last years shootout incorrect or...

A technically unchanged KTM leap frogs from third to first over an unchanged CRF450R and a technically improved YZ450F. So was last years shootout incorrect or this one? Or did ktm pony up with some extra advertising dollars to try and repair some image… 

ManInBlack wrote:
Exactly my thought as well. Great work put in for this shootout and very well put together but once I seen the top 3 and an...

Exactly my thought as well. Great work put in for this shootout and very well put together but once I seen the top 3 and an unchanged KTM in first ahead of the Honda and Yamaha, it didn't make sense to me and lost credibility. Husqvarna 6th, GasGas 5th while a VERY similar bike that's unchanged and finished 3rd last year in this shootout gets first ahead of the unchanged Honda thats excellent, finished 2nd (ahead of the KTM) in last years shootout and an improved in most ways Yamaha? Nah. Bajaj Auto sending Vital a nice size check for this one.

Tin foil alert.

8
1
ML512
Posts
16853
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
11/20/2025 8:49pm

One thing that cracked me up the most this year was our lap time day. Every rider set their fastest lap time on the bike they have personally ridden the most in the past 12 months.

Caskey, owned Hondas for about two decades now. Set his fastest time on it. (First bike he rode in his lap time test)

Tokarski, he put probably 70 hours on CRF450R in the past 8 months, sets his fastest time on it. (It was his fourth bike in the lap time test)

I never ride any bike more than two or three times in a row before I switch to something else, but I have spent the most time on a KX450 in the past year or two…it was my fastest lap time bike. (Fourth bike in my lap time rotation).

Santos owns a fleet of Austrian bikes for his rental business, rides a bit of everything but is on Austrian the most often…the KTM and GasGas were his two best bikes on averages. (One was his first bike of the rotation, the other was his seventh…so about an hour between when each one took place)

Carlino owns a YZ450F, sets his fastest lap time on one when it was his final bike of the times rotation…

Even data can be quite subjective when it comes to Dirtbikes…

15
11/20/2025 11:40pm

No Suzuki, No TM, No Kove.   Not really a full test.   Can't say the Suzuki is a bad bike, still fully capable of winning... biased testers just stuck with the negativity.   

1
27
tek14
Posts
4890
Joined
1/26/2014
Location
Vantaa FI
11/21/2025 12:36am

Thanks for written article! 

Second note it doens look good for Triumph and leaves questions about Ducatis test team as well. Triumph been most hyped bikes but seems to have most problems and durability problems not mentioned by moto media. 

sandman768
Posts
7916
Joined
3/21/2014
Location
Saratoga Springs, NY US
11/21/2025 3:39am

maybe I missed it but…was the Stark ever considered for this shootout? 

2
5
Motofinne
Posts
11353
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
FI
11/21/2025 3:54am
Joshracing wrote:
No Suzuki, No TM, No Kove.   Not really a full test.   Can't say the Suzuki is a bad bike, still fully capable of winning...

No Suzuki, No TM, No Kove.   Not really a full test.   Can't say the Suzuki is a bad bike, still fully capable of winning... biased testers just stuck with the negativity.   

Everybody with eyes and reading capability knows exactly where the Suzuki stands. I 100% understand why some outletts choose to not include the bike. It doesn't add any significant value to the test.

As for the TM, well it's i think ML:s explanation of why it wasn't included was valid. 

As for the Kove, i do think that it's time to include it. They are the most capable Chinese brand on the market and will continue to push forward.

2
AH387
Posts
1613
Joined
8/29/2019
Location
Bridgeville, PA US
11/21/2025 4:07am

1 question I have about the Yamaha, is the fork. It sounds out of balance with the shock. Is this due to them trying to negate the added engine braking? It almost sounds like they stiffened it up to try and keep the chassis level when off-throttle. Or is it more related to the change to the frame itself?

3
3strokemx
Posts
2305
Joined
9/2/2010
Location
US
11/21/2025 5:14am
28hall wrote:
A technically unchanged KTM leap frogs from third to first over an unchanged CRF450R and a technically improved YZ450F. So was last years shootout incorrect or...

A technically unchanged KTM leap frogs from third to first over an unchanged CRF450R and a technically improved YZ450F. So was last years shootout incorrect or this one? Or did ktm pony up with some extra advertising dollars to try and repair some image… 

If you run a scientific study over and over again you can get different results because there is chance involved. While Vital adheres to procedures like...

If you run a scientific study over and over again you can get different results because there is chance involved. While Vital adheres to procedures like they state in their content a dirt bike shootout is less than scientific. Thats not to say it is invalid, it's useful in many ways. Said simply this years shootout has different results from last years shootout because it was a different shootout. Also their results from the 2026 shootout largely correlate with 2025 shootout results. If the Suzuki was winning in current form you'd have a point but a podium position shuffle is hardly a conspiracy or cause for concern for Vitals shootout testing quality.

If a scientific study produces different results when repeated then the hypothesis is invalid. 

7
11/21/2025 5:25am
Joshracing wrote:
No Suzuki, No TM, No Kove.   Not really a full test.   Can't say the Suzuki is a bad bike, still fully capable of winning...

No Suzuki, No TM, No Kove.   Not really a full test.   Can't say the Suzuki is a bad bike, still fully capable of winning... biased testers just stuck with the negativity.   

Last, last, anddddd, dead last.

5
2
Mr. Plump
Posts
87
Joined
3/6/2025
Location
Lewistown, PA US
11/21/2025 5:33am

This has to be the best, most comprehensive shootout I've seen, maybe ever. It's very difficult to make a shootout "fair" and balanced, but this is about as good as it can get, IMO. There's enough information and data here to occupy my mind for quite some time 😁. Well done, Vital.

2
11/21/2025 5:47am
28hall wrote:
A technically unchanged KTM leap frogs from third to first over an unchanged CRF450R and a technically improved YZ450F. So was last years shootout incorrect or...

A technically unchanged KTM leap frogs from third to first over an unchanged CRF450R and a technically improved YZ450F. So was last years shootout incorrect or this one? Or did ktm pony up with some extra advertising dollars to try and repair some image… 

If you run a scientific study over and over again you can get different results because there is chance involved. While Vital adheres to procedures like...

If you run a scientific study over and over again you can get different results because there is chance involved. While Vital adheres to procedures like they state in their content a dirt bike shootout is less than scientific. Thats not to say it is invalid, it's useful in many ways. Said simply this years shootout has different results from last years shootout because it was a different shootout. Also their results from the 2026 shootout largely correlate with 2025 shootout results. If the Suzuki was winning in current form you'd have a point but a podium position shuffle is hardly a conspiracy or cause for concern for Vitals shootout testing quality.

3strokemx wrote:

If a scientific study produces different results when repeated then the hypothesis is invalid. 

False. 

1
2
11/21/2025 5:49am
ML512 wrote:
One thing that cracked me up the most this year was our lap time day. Every rider set their fastest lap time on the bike they...

One thing that cracked me up the most this year was our lap time day. Every rider set their fastest lap time on the bike they have personally ridden the most in the past 12 months.

Caskey, owned Hondas for about two decades now. Set his fastest time on it. (First bike he rode in his lap time test)

Tokarski, he put probably 70 hours on CRF450R in the past 8 months, sets his fastest time on it. (It was his fourth bike in the lap time test)

I never ride any bike more than two or three times in a row before I switch to something else, but I have spent the most time on a KX450 in the past year or two…it was my fastest lap time bike. (Fourth bike in my lap time rotation).

Santos owns a fleet of Austrian bikes for his rental business, rides a bit of everything but is on Austrian the most often…the KTM and GasGas were his two best bikes on averages. (One was his first bike of the rotation, the other was his seventh…so about an hour between when each one took place)

Carlino owns a YZ450F, sets his fastest lap time on one when it was his final bike of the times rotation…

Even data can be quite subjective when it comes to Dirtbikes…

Something to be said about this. Maybe the best thing you can do to get faster is to...... ride your bike fellas. 

3
Flatliner
Posts
4060
Joined
11/3/2009
Location
CA
11/21/2025 6:03am
Joshracing wrote:
No Suzuki, No TM, No Kove.   Not really a full test.   Can't say the Suzuki is a bad bike, still fully capable of winning...

No Suzuki, No TM, No Kove.   Not really a full test.   Can't say the Suzuki is a bad bike, still fully capable of winning... biased testers just stuck with the negativity.   

I'd agree, except it was addressed. I'd like to see the TM, but it's more of a curiosity. Would LOVE to take that 300 for a spin that's been making the testing rounds given that I'm a 350 rider.

Also,  you're assuming at this point kove wants to be included...  I'd bet not.

PRM31
Posts
3461
Joined
8/7/2009
Location
Northern, VA US
Fantasy
11/21/2025 6:13am
28hall wrote:
A technically unchanged KTM leap frogs from third to first over an unchanged CRF450R and a technically improved YZ450F. So was last years shootout incorrect or...

A technically unchanged KTM leap frogs from third to first over an unchanged CRF450R and a technically improved YZ450F. So was last years shootout incorrect or this one? Or did ktm pony up with some extra advertising dollars to try and repair some image… 

If you run a scientific study over and over again you can get different results because there is chance involved. While Vital adheres to procedures like...

If you run a scientific study over and over again you can get different results because there is chance involved. While Vital adheres to procedures like they state in their content a dirt bike shootout is less than scientific. Thats not to say it is invalid, it's useful in many ways. Said simply this years shootout has different results from last years shootout because it was a different shootout. Also their results from the 2026 shootout largely correlate with 2025 shootout results. If the Suzuki was winning in current form you'd have a point but a podium position shuffle is hardly a conspiracy or cause for concern for Vitals shootout testing quality.

3strokemx wrote:

If a scientific study produces different results when repeated then the hypothesis is invalid. 

This is NOT a scientific study. The final result of this effort is the average of 5 riders opinions on riding these bikes on those three tracks. That is all. Period. 

If you change the riders, the number of riders, the tracks, the conditions, or the selection of bikes, you are changing the evaluation and can get different results without it being any kind of conspiracy or in any way making it less valid (whatever that even means). 

9
1
3strokemx
Posts
2305
Joined
9/2/2010
Location
US
11/21/2025 6:25am
If you run a scientific study over and over again you can get different results because there is chance involved. While Vital adheres to procedures like...

If you run a scientific study over and over again you can get different results because there is chance involved. While Vital adheres to procedures like they state in their content a dirt bike shootout is less than scientific. Thats not to say it is invalid, it's useful in many ways. Said simply this years shootout has different results from last years shootout because it was a different shootout. Also their results from the 2026 shootout largely correlate with 2025 shootout results. If the Suzuki was winning in current form you'd have a point but a podium position shuffle is hardly a conspiracy or cause for concern for Vitals shootout testing quality.

3strokemx wrote:

If a scientific study produces different results when repeated then the hypothesis is invalid. 

TriRacer27 wrote:

False. 

Then what does it mean if your results are inconsistent?

5
ace402
Posts
282
Joined
9/23/2019
Location
Loxley, AL US
11/21/2025 7:24am

Thank you for all of the effort you put into the shootout. Was really hoping the Triumph would have done better. If you get the chance to ride one that's been revalved well I would love to hear your opinion on it.

2
MPJC
Posts
2016
Joined
5/18/2017
Location
CA
Fantasy
11/21/2025 7:45am
3strokemx wrote:

If a scientific study produces different results when repeated then the hypothesis is invalid. 

TriRacer27 wrote:

False. 

3strokemx wrote:

Then what does it mean if your results are inconsistent?

Hypotheses aren’t tested for validity, they’re tested to see if they are correct/true. To do this effectively, you need an experimental method that produces repeatable results. It’s the experiment and research design that is valid or invalid. So if your results are inconsistent that means your experiment is flawed so the results are invalid. A flawed experiment has failed to actually test the hypothesis because it hasn’t produced reliable evidence. 

This shootout isn’t testing a hypothesis nor does it seem to be making any claims about being more than the opinions of the testers (with some objective data added for those interested in knowing such information). Some opinions are actually informative, valuable, and worth listening to and in my opinion this shootout contains such opinions. 

4
1
ML512
Posts
16853
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
11/21/2025 7:48am
ace402 wrote:
Thank you for all of the effort you put into the shootout. Was really hoping the Triumph would have done better. If you get the chance...

Thank you for all of the effort you put into the shootout. Was really hoping the Triumph would have done better. If you get the chance to ride one that's been revalved well I would love to hear your opinion on it.

Stevie and I did a day of testing with Ross Maeda / Enzo, like two months ago, with our RC edition Triumph 450. It was dramatically better; we still wanted to improve the fork a bit more, though.

Takeaways: Once the suspension actually had some comfort, we noticed the bike seems to be a bit more front-biased than we expected, lot of engine weight on the front. The balance between comfort and hold up under braking was still tricky to find, but the chassis really is stable.

Power is a mind trip. On the dyno chart, you can see it's a bit weaker from low to mid, and that is very obvious when you ride it. With only a 110 rear tire, it still doesn't spool up quickly and doesn't have great recovery character when the rpms drop low. The top end is good, but the rev limiter character sucks.

If you buy one, yes, get the suspension done asap, and maybe look into an ECU. There's a GET that works on it and either a Carrot or Aime ECU. Sadly, no Vortex option. I know the clutches are still a bit of a weak point as well.

6
mx1234
Posts
62
Joined
6/7/2012
Location
AD
11/21/2025 8:55am

Awesome! but missing:

- manufacturing quality
- durability
- reliability
- good/bad basic operation
- oem parts prices and availability

For exemple Triumph's transmission...

 

1
2
msp332
Posts
377
Joined
10/29/2014
Location
San Mateo, CA US
11/21/2025 9:14am

Statistical variance in test results is a reality of scientific process. Not understanding variance is not understanding how well you know what you know.

1
pelosi826
Posts
66
Joined
12/5/2013
Location
Johnstown, NY US
11/21/2025 10:02am

In the write up, for just about every bike, you mention characteristics to describe it as a "fun" bike.  which bike did you have the most fun on?

11/21/2025 10:34am Edited Date/Time 11/21/2025 11:33am
If you run a scientific study over and over again you can get different results because there is chance involved. While Vital adheres to procedures like...

If you run a scientific study over and over again you can get different results because there is chance involved. While Vital adheres to procedures like they state in their content a dirt bike shootout is less than scientific. Thats not to say it is invalid, it's useful in many ways. Said simply this years shootout has different results from last years shootout because it was a different shootout. Also their results from the 2026 shootout largely correlate with 2025 shootout results. If the Suzuki was winning in current form you'd have a point but a podium position shuffle is hardly a conspiracy or cause for concern for Vitals shootout testing quality.

The Zook finished last previously and is unchanged, but two very expensive new models came in last and second-to-last this year that were not tested last year.

Conceivable that the budget Zook, while not beating out the rest, could finish above those models, which could be very telling information to buyers.

2
ML512
Posts
16853
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
11/21/2025 10:52am
pelosi826 wrote:
In the write up, for just about every bike, you mention characteristics to describe it as a "fun" bike.  which bike did you have the most...

In the write up, for just about every bike, you mention characteristics to describe it as a "fun" bike.  which bike did you have the most fun on?

Kawasaki and Honda were the most "fun" for me.

6
GPrider
Posts
741
Joined
4/10/2014
Location
La Mesa, CA US
11/21/2025 10:59am

on the last day you had oem there. What changes did you do to the honda generally speaking to balance it out and how much of a difference did it make? 

Forty
Posts
3033
Joined
7/27/2009
Location
Saint Paul, MN US
11/21/2025 11:03am
pelosi826 wrote:
In the write up, for just about every bike, you mention characteristics to describe it as a "fun" bike.  which bike did you have the most...

In the write up, for just about every bike, you mention characteristics to describe it as a "fun" bike.  which bike did you have the most fun on?

ML512 wrote:

Kawasaki and Honda were the most "fun" for me.

This is the most important intangible to me.  Nice work and thanks for the info.

1
ML512
Posts
16853
Joined
12/28/2008
Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
11/21/2025 11:41am
GPrider wrote:
on the last day you had oem there. What changes did you do to the honda generally speaking to balance it out and how much of...

on the last day you had oem there. What changes did you do to the honda generally speaking to balance it out and how much of a difference did it make? 

Not a huge amount. We went from 5mm to 2mm fork height, stiffened fork slightly on compression, slowed fork compression a little, ran 106-107mm sag instead of 103-104 range. Took some weight off the front to get the front feeling stiffer, a little more stable.

It was better for a few riders, but a few wanted more balance and more hold up deeper in the stroke of the fork.

1

Post a reply to: Vital MX 450 Shootout - Feature and QNA

The Latest