If everyone knows these guys are overtraining why dont they change?

7/11/2025 7:19pm
ando wrote:
Sport science has evolved way beyond just doing “what you believe” is good enough.  Any pro taking that approach is going to be left in the...

Sport science has evolved way beyond just doing “what you believe” is good enough.  Any pro taking that approach is going to be left in the dust of the guys who are training in a specific and tailored way.

These days it’s not enough for an elite MX rider to just be good at twisting the throttle.  You need to arm yourself with the right knowledge about fitness, training, diet etc.

Tumic wrote:
Yet the best rider in the world seems to have a more relaxed view on it than the guys behind him and is still winning?.Real confidence...

Yet the best rider in the world seems to have a more relaxed view on it than the guys behind him and is still winning?.


Real confidence will always get you longer than fitness and no confidence. 

I am not saying that you should not train at all but if you do enough and believe in it, that will get you longer than doing more and don’t believing in it.

The riders who relax and enjoy the sport will have the longest careers...

100% Armega Jett Lawrence LE Donut Goggles - Cycle News

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1
7/11/2025 8:02pm

There’s no real off season. How many races are they doing a year between MX and SX? Add in the training and it is just too much. I will gladly sit down and watch the races and enjoy watching year round but they are overworking these guys. 

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Tumic
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7/11/2025 10:20pm
zippytech wrote:
Aldon gets way to much credit, everyone talks like he is a god. He just got a few riders that was going to win with or...

Aldon gets way to much credit, everyone talks like he is a god. He just got a few riders that was going to win with or with out him cause champs are champs.

True but then you got Zacho and Webb that i firmly believe that Aldon made in to 450 winners. 

I doubt that Zach would have taken that 450 outdoors title without him and i also doubt that Webb would have beaten Roczen for the SX title without Aldons program.

But i 100% agree with the guy that the chunkier guys seems to benefit the most from Aldons program. 

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Chain ChaTTer
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7/11/2025 10:50pm

Villapoto's last race...championship...they give him the new truck in the middle of the track.....The guy is fucking smoked ...done with it...depleted and over it.

Aldons first victim.

Sure he won lots...'Jett like' in the sense that some of us were sick of it...But it was a different Ryan...he was drained by training that I feel he lost the love for it in those years.

He retired soon after.

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Silliker269
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7/12/2025 12:06am

Its a fine balance , typically right before you overtrain your fitness reaches a new level so you want to do more volumn when then you start digging yourself in a hole without knowing it   

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truck
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7/12/2025 7:37am
Its a fine balance , typically right before you overtrain your fitness reaches a new level so you want to do more volumn when then you...

Its a fine balance , typically right before you overtrain your fitness reaches a new level so you want to do more volumn when then you start digging yourself in a hole without knowing it   

It's a balance but also have to have clear focus on what the goal is. If you're pushing for more fitness just because you think more is better then you've got the wrong goal. That's what we see with a lot of these guys. The goal should be to be the best motocross racer they can be, balancing fitness with, resilience, injury prevention and recovery, mental health, physical health, etc etc etc.... That's the kind of big picture focus serious sports have that this sport doesn't. Some guys develop a sense of needing this and try to figure it out themselves, but they end up falling for some crazy theories instead of evidence based practices half the time.

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APLMAN99
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7/12/2025 8:45am
aees wrote:
No pro should be doing 30min full speed motos in the middle of season. You will just break down the body.Exception is maybe if you coming...

No pro should be doing 30min full speed motos in the middle of season. You will just break down the body.

Exception is maybe if you coming of an injury.

Do some sprint laps, 10min heaters max, ride with one arm, ride only standing up at 70%, practise technique.

We get 1h zone 5 on race days. In other endurance sports at elite level 45min is max recommended, in total per week. Our nerve system gets hammered and it puts the body under constant drain.

Think it was DV12 who also said he never/rarely did 30s. Just practised technique during week. Endurance you get from other types of training.

Of course you will always have exceptions, guys that needs to be on the bike or they lose it. But they are not immune to wear out.

With all respect to DV, which approach would you take as most successful, his or Carmichael’s full on training camp type of program?  

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aees
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7/12/2025 9:13am
aees wrote:
No pro should be doing 30min full speed motos in the middle of season. You will just break down the body.Exception is maybe if you coming...

No pro should be doing 30min full speed motos in the middle of season. You will just break down the body.

Exception is maybe if you coming of an injury.

Do some sprint laps, 10min heaters max, ride with one arm, ride only standing up at 70%, practise technique.

We get 1h zone 5 on race days. In other endurance sports at elite level 45min is max recommended, in total per week. Our nerve system gets hammered and it puts the body under constant drain.

Think it was DV12 who also said he never/rarely did 30s. Just practised technique during week. Endurance you get from other types of training.

Of course you will always have exceptions, guys that needs to be on the bike or they lose it. But they are not immune to wear out.

APLMAN99 wrote:

With all respect to DV, which approach would you take as most successful, his or Carmichael’s full on training camp type of program?  

That's 20 years ago. Science and knowledge evolve. Carmichael won because he was fit, and the others weren't to the same level he has said himself. RC could have been overtrained and still beat the others.

That doesn't mean RC would have an edge today.

Everybody is fit today, so to the point they overtrain. And an overtrained person don't beat a well trained person but they will beat someone that isn't on a modern program.

Many riders would be winning races if the key was to do cardio, gym and 2h riding per day as RC did. 

Herlings has stated himself that when he was over in US, and around those years his training was unsustainable so he backed it off. And he is an animal when it comes to fitness.

 

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7/12/2025 9:17am

Sounds like it might be time for some of these guys to go back the 90s.  Hit the desert, do some free riding, drink a beer and smoke some weed to recover.  Who can argue against that?   

Well other than some over the hill Vitards 😁

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7/12/2025 9:36am

1: Every athlete is slightly different. So one programme certainly does not fit all. 
2: To learn what you can’t sustain, first you have to burnout. 

Im surprised though that at this stage of their career they’re getting it wrong. 

If TdF trainers and riders can get it right for 21 days straight, why can’t our riders & trainers get it right when they’ve got 7 days between race days? 

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Titan1
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7/12/2025 10:06am
AC, Broc Tickle, and Roczen have all talked about how depleted they felt at Baker's Factory.  Aldon got lucky with guys that were already champs, which...

AC, Broc Tickle, and Roczen have all talked about how depleted they felt at Baker's Factory.  Aldon got lucky with guys that were already champs, which gave him instant credibility.   I'd choose Peter Park any day of the week over that concentration camp if I was in their shoes...

Splat03 wrote:
Aldons program tends to do better with, no disrespect intended, chunkier riders. The dudes that have a little thicker build and can carry some weight equals...

Aldons program tends to do better with, no disrespect intended, chunkier riders. The dudes that have a little thicker build and can carry some weight equals having some reserves in the tank. The thinner riders like AC and AP are left with nothing at the end of the day and over the course of the incredibly long season their bodies break down more. Look at the guys that have run his program with multiple championships, RC, RV, RD and CW intermittently. They have thicker builds. He does tend to burn them out though. 

I’ve noticed this as well…chunkier riders seem to fair better with Aldon…thinner riders don’t.

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Pop Shmoke
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7/12/2025 10:08am
ando wrote:
Sport science has evolved way beyond just doing “what you believe” is good enough.  Any pro taking that approach is going to be left in the...

Sport science has evolved way beyond just doing “what you believe” is good enough.  Any pro taking that approach is going to be left in the dust of the guys who are training in a specific and tailored way.

These days it’s not enough for an elite MX rider to just be good at twisting the throttle.  You need to arm yourself with the right knowledge about fitness, training, diet etc.

Tumic wrote:
Yet the best rider in the world seems to have a more relaxed view on it than the guys behind him and is still winning?.Real confidence...

Yet the best rider in the world seems to have a more relaxed view on it than the guys behind him and is still winning?.


Real confidence will always get you longer than fitness and no confidence. 

I am not saying that you should not train at all but if you do enough and believe in it, that will get you longer than doing more and don’t believing in it.

The riders who relax and enjoy the sport will have the longest careers...

The riders who relax and enjoy the sport will have the longest careers...

100% Armega Jett Lawrence LE Donut Goggles - Cycle News

There definitely is something to this. We are in a new era of allowing guys personalities to show a looot more, but the previous “the ryans” era those guys were robots… and it definitely affected them. Both guys retired early. RV is right when he says dunge had it even harder because he had almost no injuries so he just kept going mx to sx to mx to sx over and over and over. RV missed quite a few outdoors due to injury and lost that sx season. 

Before AP overtrained himself and ran himself into the ground the 3 guys up front were Jett, Hunter, and Ap. All 3 guys are pretty chill, hunter is the most serious out of the group but AP and Jett are complete goof balls off the track. From the outside looking in those guys look like theyre having a blast. When is the last time a guy who is winning everything at Jetts level looked like he was having the time of his life? Never? 

Chase is known for being in his own head too much and he just had to take a few races off to get a mental break because he also rarely gets injured so hes at every race. Jett got time off with injuries, but he really seems like he is able to have fun. Its nice to see! Its no fun when the guys look like they hate their life in the post race interview. I think jett/dazzy/honda have genuinely found the secret to long term success and that is having fun and not being too serious off the bike and when youre on the bike only ride just as fast as it takes to win to minimize risk. Going faster than you need to to win just adds extra risk. Plus his style of trying to miss as much rough stuff as he can and be very efficient on the bike makes his riding way less sketchy or dangerous which should also add to his longevity.

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Hammer 663s
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7/12/2025 12:33pm

And AP is out. 

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captmoto
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7/12/2025 12:34pm

And AP is out. 

Predictable?

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Pop Shmoke
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7/12/2025 12:40pm

How many of these guys always have epstein barr, chronic fatigue and all this other stuff you dont hear of in other sports. Remember kennys few years of mystery illness? Also remember in sx when every single guy had that illness that was going around in january? These guys are running on the ragged edge and their bodies cant handle any illness theyre exposed to. 

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yak651
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7/12/2025 12:45pm Edited Date/Time 7/12/2025 12:45pm

So dumb to continue to train hard during the season. Yes do some work to maintain but your hard work should be done in the offseason. Like mentioned above some light cycling, some play riding to keep it fun and one day of motos should be plenty to maintain your base and not get burnt out 

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Hammer 663s
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7/12/2025 12:49pm

Bet AP doesn’t make washougal and tries to recover. If he can in 3 weeks. 

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Splat03
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7/12/2025 1:02pm

I remember when Marv left Aldons and started moving away from that program a little. It was probably after he retired or close to the end of his career but he said the Baker program didn’t work well for him. He wasn’t disrespectful about it but simply said the motos were a grind along with the gym and the road biking. He said he feels better on the bike if he has some opportunity to work on sections and technique along with occasional full motos instead of just hammering laps. I believe he had DV helping him as his trainer and or bike coach his last couple years. 
 
As Guywithabike said, I’ll watch all the races but the seasons are way too long. Most other pro sports have 6-8 month seasons with some off season camps and playoffs at the end so most teams are done with the exception of the contenders. SX/MX expects preseason camps to start late Oct/mid Nov with this year’s season ending on 9/20. No much time off, 5-7 weeks for the guys without injuries. 

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7/12/2025 1:56pm

Might be good to assess if they are physiologically overtraining or mentally overtraining, or both.

Jett has that balance figured out. He’s also naturally gifted and doesn’t need any extra advantages.

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aees
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7/12/2025 3:43pm
AC, Broc Tickle, and Roczen have all talked about how depleted they felt at Baker's Factory.  Aldon got lucky with guys that were already champs, which...

AC, Broc Tickle, and Roczen have all talked about how depleted they felt at Baker's Factory.  Aldon got lucky with guys that were already champs, which gave him instant credibility.   I'd choose Peter Park any day of the week over that concentration camp if I was in their shoes...

Splat03 wrote:
Aldons program tends to do better with, no disrespect intended, chunkier riders. The dudes that have a little thicker build and can carry some weight equals...

Aldons program tends to do better with, no disrespect intended, chunkier riders. The dudes that have a little thicker build and can carry some weight equals having some reserves in the tank. The thinner riders like AC and AP are left with nothing at the end of the day and over the course of the incredibly long season their bodies break down more. Look at the guys that have run his program with multiple championships, RC, RV, RD and CW intermittently. They have thicker builds. He does tend to burn them out though. 

Titan1 wrote:

I’ve noticed this as well…chunkier riders seem to fair better with Aldon…thinner riders don’t.

RC made it because if he sat still for 2min he gained a pound. No natural burning of energy in that temple 😄

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7/12/2025 3:57pm Edited Date/Time 7/12/2025 4:01pm

Today we saw the proof of concept to the idea that riders are overtraining.  Jeremy Martin put his soul into the ‘last career moto’ and beat everyone.  To me this shows winning truly does take confidence, willpower, and heart.  

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Splat03
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7/12/2025 4:30pm
Today we saw the proof of concept to the idea that riders are overtraining.  Jeremy Martin put his soul into the ‘last career moto’ and beat...

Today we saw the proof of concept to the idea that riders are overtraining.  Jeremy Martin put his soul into the ‘last career moto’ and beat everyone.  To me this shows winning truly does take confidence, willpower, and heart.  

Thanks for the spoiler alert

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7/12/2025 6:03pm

Just happy to hear the career-shortening name "Aldon" less and less each year. 

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7/12/2025 6:54pm
Tumic wrote:
Yet the best rider in the world seems to have a more relaxed view on it than the guys behind him and is still winning?.Real confidence...

Yet the best rider in the world seems to have a more relaxed view on it than the guys behind him and is still winning?.


Real confidence will always get you longer than fitness and no confidence. 

I am not saying that you should not train at all but if you do enough and believe in it, that will get you longer than doing more and don’t believing in it.

The riders who relax and enjoy the sport will have the longest careers...

The riders who relax and enjoy the sport will have the longest careers...

100% Armega Jett Lawrence LE Donut Goggles - Cycle News

Pop Shmoke wrote:
There definitely is something to this. We are in a new era of allowing guys personalities to show a looot more, but the previous “the ryans”...

There definitely is something to this. We are in a new era of allowing guys personalities to show a looot more, but the previous “the ryans” era those guys were robots… and it definitely affected them. Both guys retired early. RV is right when he says dunge had it even harder because he had almost no injuries so he just kept going mx to sx to mx to sx over and over and over. RV missed quite a few outdoors due to injury and lost that sx season. 

Before AP overtrained himself and ran himself into the ground the 3 guys up front were Jett, Hunter, and Ap. All 3 guys are pretty chill, hunter is the most serious out of the group but AP and Jett are complete goof balls off the track. From the outside looking in those guys look like theyre having a blast. When is the last time a guy who is winning everything at Jetts level looked like he was having the time of his life? Never? 

Chase is known for being in his own head too much and he just had to take a few races off to get a mental break because he also rarely gets injured so hes at every race. Jett got time off with injuries, but he really seems like he is able to have fun. Its nice to see! Its no fun when the guys look like they hate their life in the post race interview. I think jett/dazzy/honda have genuinely found the secret to long term success and that is having fun and not being too serious off the bike and when youre on the bike only ride just as fast as it takes to win to minimize risk. Going faster than you need to to win just adds extra risk. Plus his style of trying to miss as much rough stuff as he can and be very efficient on the bike makes his riding way less sketchy or dangerous which should also add to his longevity.

Don't downplay Hunter's contribution in Jett/Dazzy/Honda's success, he helps keep Jett grounded.

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Pop Shmoke
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7/12/2025 7:00pm
The riders who relax and enjoy the sport will have the longest careers...

The riders who relax and enjoy the sport will have the longest careers...

100% Armega Jett Lawrence LE Donut Goggles - Cycle News

Pop Shmoke wrote:
There definitely is something to this. We are in a new era of allowing guys personalities to show a looot more, but the previous “the ryans”...

There definitely is something to this. We are in a new era of allowing guys personalities to show a looot more, but the previous “the ryans” era those guys were robots… and it definitely affected them. Both guys retired early. RV is right when he says dunge had it even harder because he had almost no injuries so he just kept going mx to sx to mx to sx over and over and over. RV missed quite a few outdoors due to injury and lost that sx season. 

Before AP overtrained himself and ran himself into the ground the 3 guys up front were Jett, Hunter, and Ap. All 3 guys are pretty chill, hunter is the most serious out of the group but AP and Jett are complete goof balls off the track. From the outside looking in those guys look like theyre having a blast. When is the last time a guy who is winning everything at Jetts level looked like he was having the time of his life? Never? 

Chase is known for being in his own head too much and he just had to take a few races off to get a mental break because he also rarely gets injured so hes at every race. Jett got time off with injuries, but he really seems like he is able to have fun. Its nice to see! Its no fun when the guys look like they hate their life in the post race interview. I think jett/dazzy/honda have genuinely found the secret to long term success and that is having fun and not being too serious off the bike and when youre on the bike only ride just as fast as it takes to win to minimize risk. Going faster than you need to to win just adds extra risk. Plus his style of trying to miss as much rough stuff as he can and be very efficient on the bike makes his riding way less sketchy or dangerous which should also add to his longevity.

Don't downplay Hunter's contribution in Jett/Dazzy/Honda's success, he helps keep Jett grounded.

Youre right.

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soggy
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7/12/2025 7:04pm

We need 4 less SX races a year. Keep outdoors as is. 31 race weekends is way too much IMO. 

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Pop Shmoke
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7/12/2025 7:05pm
Might be good to assess if they are physiologically overtraining or mentally overtraining, or both.Jett has that balance figured out. He’s also naturally gifted and doesn’t...

Might be good to assess if they are physiologically overtraining or mentally overtraining, or both.

Jett has that balance figured out. He’s also naturally gifted and doesn’t need any extra advantages.

Yea on the pulpmx show Ive heard multiple different riders over the years mention that its not even the amount of races that burns them out, its the amount of weeks of hard core grinding they have to do in total, in order to do that many races, that burns them out. Then you add on top of it the anount of traveling, flying, staying at hotels, sleeping in motor homes, it adds up. Hell I dont even have to race and if I do a day of traveling and flying it beats me up for a couple days afterwards. Especially if you go across time zones. The amount of traveling they do alone would wipe a normal person out, but theyre spinning motos and road biking hundreds of miles on top of it. 

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Hank_Thrill
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7/12/2025 7:26pm Edited Date/Time 7/12/2025 7:27pm

The problem is they have no off season. These guys have to maintain a ridiculous high level of fitness year round. Aaron has been going on a multi year long streak. 

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7/12/2025 7:33pm
Today we saw the proof of concept to the idea that riders are overtraining.  Jeremy Martin put his soul into the ‘last career moto’ and beat...

Today we saw the proof of concept to the idea that riders are overtraining.  Jeremy Martin put his soul into the ‘last career moto’ and beat everyone.  To me this shows winning truly does take confidence, willpower, and heart.  

Splat03 wrote:

Thanks for the spoiler alert

Why would it surprise you to find out about an epic race result when scrolling around a motocross forum?  

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APLMAN99
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7/12/2025 7:42pm
aees wrote:
No pro should be doing 30min full speed motos in the middle of season. You will just break down the body.Exception is maybe if you coming...

No pro should be doing 30min full speed motos in the middle of season. You will just break down the body.

Exception is maybe if you coming of an injury.

Do some sprint laps, 10min heaters max, ride with one arm, ride only standing up at 70%, practise technique.

We get 1h zone 5 on race days. In other endurance sports at elite level 45min is max recommended, in total per week. Our nerve system gets hammered and it puts the body under constant drain.

Think it was DV12 who also said he never/rarely did 30s. Just practised technique during week. Endurance you get from other types of training.

Of course you will always have exceptions, guys that needs to be on the bike or they lose it. But they are not immune to wear out.

APLMAN99 wrote:

With all respect to DV, which approach would you take as most successful, his or Carmichael’s full on training camp type of program?  

aees wrote:
That's 20 years ago. Science and knowledge evolve. Carmichael won because he was fit, and the others weren't to the same level he has said himself...

That's 20 years ago. Science and knowledge evolve. Carmichael won because he was fit, and the others weren't to the same level he has said himself. RC could have been overtrained and still beat the others.

That doesn't mean RC would have an edge today.

Everybody is fit today, so to the point they overtrain. And an overtrained person don't beat a well trained person but they will beat someone that isn't on a modern program.

Many riders would be winning races if the key was to do cardio, gym and 2h riding per day as RC did. 

Herlings has stated himself that when he was over in US, and around those years his training was unsustainable so he backed it off. And he is an animal when it comes to fitness.

 

Villopoto, Dungey, Tomac, and Roczen were pretty big trainers for big portions of their successful seasons also, weren’t they?  

I’m not saying that DV is completely off base. He may not have been better if he’d have trained more, but the guys who’ve won the most titles sure seem to be pretty aggressive in their training programs. It’s obviously not a ‘one size fits all’ situation, though. 

I think that the difficult part is riding that razor’s edge between optimal performance and going overboard. A lot of times it seems that the only way that a rider finds that dividing line is because they’ve crossed it. 

Post a reply to: If everyone knows these guys are overtraining why dont they change?

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