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Drive(or Ride)-by-wire throttle systems. Jamie from Twisted Development has mentioned this in a few interviews. Ironically, The new Suzuki DRZ uses this technology.
Me too, a quality built carbed 2 stroke with new frame and suspension components..Id be happt till the day I die.
IDK about future developments, but why did dirt bike "Development" stagnate or stop, for all intents and purposes, in the late 90's-early 2000's???
You can't competitively race a 60's dirt bike against a 70's dirt bike.You can't competitively race a 70's dirt bike against an 80's dirt bike. You can't competitively race an 80's dirt bike against a 90's dirt bike....
"Development" used to leap frog forward in a way that made the previous generation's technology completely obsolete within a decade.
That stopped. Now we get tiny incremental improvements,, but no true "game changing" Development that really matters in a fundamental way....often, Development goes backwards (air forks) in terms of true performance these days...Dirt bike "Development" has basically become Bells and Whistles....
We have guys qualifying for SX races and Nationals on YZ 250 2-Strokes every year currently. That's 20-25 year old technology. Some will tell you that bike still has the best front suspension on the track.
In 2005, I thought we'd be on "magic carpets" in 20 years...
It’s like when you first started riding MX. At first you’re really bad so you make huge leaps but as you get better improvements in lap times get harder and harder until you get to the pro level where taking a second or two off your lap time takes a huge amount of work.
Those ‘60’s,‘70’s & ‘80’s bikes were easy to improve on but now we’re at the “ pro level “ as it were where legit improvements are hard to find and expensive to implement .
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I wouldn't bet on Polaris doing an Outlaw or Predator-type machine, 450 or otherwise. Their bread and butter are CVT 4x4 machines. In the big bore class, they more or less offer the Sportsman (utility) and Scrambler (sport) as 850/1000cc inline twins. The only real differentiator between the two are the plastics. This is pretty much mirrored by CanAm with the Outlander and Renegade.
The current Scrambler had factory backing in GNCC for many years and there are several still running the 4x4 class. Most frontrunners have moved onto Renegades though due to lack of factory support. Team UXC was reportedly running an "improved" Scrambler at some GNCC rounds last year but there hasn't been much about it.
As an aside, Yamaha has been working on a big bore 4x4 sport machine for awhile now: https://dirtwheelsmag.com/is-a-new-yamaha-atv-coming-soon/
Sadly, I don't see a revival for more traditional sport quads any time soon. Most of the market is trail riders and with how badly everything has been torn up by UTVs, riding a solid axle quad on a normal trail kind of sucks IMO. They still shine in dunes or on the track.
Should be interesting in corners...😉
Thats natural with all industriies. Look at computers, there were MASSIVE leaps in technology advancement in the early years. Today for most tasks a 10 year old computer can handle them just fine compared to a brand new cutting edge computer. Hell my macbook I still use if from 2011, its 14 years old.
Look at aviation, the wright brothers first flew in 1903. The boeing 707 flew in 1953. 50 years to go from planes made out of balsa wood and piano wire to jet powered aircraft carrying hundreds of people flying hundreds of miles an hour 30,000 feet above ground. The concord first flew in 1969 16 years later. Planes these days are not much different than the 707 and muuuch slower than the concord. Its natural that when something is new it moves extremely fast and then slows down as it gets perfected.
IMO if you check out the Honda's article on the new 2025 CBR 1000RR-R SP. Its huge and lists in detail all the changes they made and the reasonings behind every change. I think this is how dirt bike development should be. A lot of people are resistant to change in the dirt bike scene and compared to street bikes dirt bikes have barely progressed at all. Bottom line up front its going to cost more, no matter what, no matter when, bikes are going to get faster, they are going to have more technology in them.
A true traction control system, 6 axis IMUs, gyros, better data collection is the first step I see coming next.
variable cam timing would be cool. but maby to heavy on a small mx bike engine.
3-D printing technology should be working its way in soon. I see that, and more built-in chassis adjustments for sub frames, bars, pegs, head angle, leverage ratios, etc.
Suspension telemetry, I never change the map in my bike but suspension all the time
What do you feel would the advantage of that?
Perfectly matching the shape of the mousse inside the tire should help with more consistent handling characteristics and probably dissipate heat better.
It could also open the door for multi density foams which could reduce weight and improve/change the feel.
None of this makes any of the racing better, only more expensive. If everyone on the line had a 2006 2-stroke 250 the racing would as good, if not better than it is when everyone is on a fuel injected 450.
Lots of people want dirtbike development.
The same people complain about the cost of new bikes..
weird.
I want dirt bike development personally, its going to happen anyway. I dont understand the resistance to it, if you want to buy the same bike every single year at a new price with no changes by all means, do you. I'd rather see technology go forward and invest in that.
What if a 2006 250 2t was allowed in the 250 class? Just asking because who would be upset about 20-year-old technology? (as long as it passes tech) I guess what I'm saying is, if today's 250cc high dollar wonder technology is afraid of decades ago 250cc technology, what is the point?
Thats pretty interesting and Ill look into this bike.
I guess I should have said this in the first post, but I’m also asking what is coning down the pipeline from the motogp side. The finger followers, super high revving engines, high compression, downdraft, centerport…etc is all stuff that came over from motogp. A lot of stuff starts out over there and comes to mx later on. I’m not really up on motogp very much, but I know they use a holeshot device on the rear, maybe that could be something that comes over to mx? What are other things theyre doing that havent made it over yet? I know using the engine as a stressed member of the frame has been done over there, not sure if it still is. Carbon fiber subframes would make sense much earlier than a whole frame. What other secret sauce are they doing that should be making its way over to mx/sx?
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Throttle cam changes offer huge results in feel. Drive by wire would be next level to integrate into map changes.
Ah, this makes sense. I've never been connected much with the big bore 4x4 side of things, especially in GNCC. I paid a little attention through the WPS days in 2008. Man, those guys were crazy! All that weight and still hauling ass.
I had no idea that Polaris supported the Scrambler in GNCC. You are probably right. That "race quad" is likely a big bore-ish 4x4 that is easier to market to the public and the everyday rider. It's also able to be raced in GNCC.
I know this isn't a quad forum, so ill keep this brief, but i agree. The sport quads are dead. They aren't coming back. Its sad, but all good things come to an end. And yes, downvote away, sport quads in MX helped keep many tracks alive, even if the quads "molested" the track.
Polaris won't be coming out with any new quads in the near future. If they do, it'll be a moderate face lift on the big bore or an electric youth model. They've laid off hundreds of people in the last twelve months and shelved most programs that were anything more than BNG.
For sure the next hot ticket is Honda or some manufacturer will come out with dual mufflers in the back to add a few pounds.
Other than that, maybe electric start to add weight, a 4 stroke motor to add weight, and a gob of electronics to add more weight.
Beyond all that, probably electric is the next big change
Honestly, I'm hoping the next step are some steps backwards. Simplify them, reduce parts, more analog.
If the KTM 2 strokes stop development today- we will be perfectly happy with them for the rest of time.
This will be off the wall but what about a hybrid drive train? There was a company a while back that created a backpack sized generator using a small rotary engine. We all like the long run times of fuel and quick refill, but the electric guys like the instant torque and no shifting of electric power. Could we see the best of both worlds?
To be able to adjust your horsepower w/ the swipe of a finger. Oh, wait....
The dual muffler years (both periods) were so dumb. Was so nice when they finally got rid of them. The funny part is it was a built in way to drop weight too once they got rid of em.
Kawasaki just tried that. Interesting engineering exercise but heavy, bulky, expensive.
Might be worth a look at if you live in or near a low emission zone.
https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-reviews/kawasaki-ninja-7-hybrid-m…
Maybe it would be easier to install?
Agreed. Racing has never got “ better” . The GP’s in the ‘70’s were awesome ( and probably the ‘50’s & ‘60’s I was too young to witness those ). They maybe going faster today but it’s not better just different.
If everyone showed up at the first national this year on 1978 technology with a matched track the actual racing would be just as exciting as it is today.
Thank you Luxon for stepping up posting great information in this post. I too agree with you on the AI part. Use your brain.
Here is a question for you when it comes to flex. Is triple clamps flex a major part of a bikes handling? Some people have been complaining about a bikes suspension and handling being bad. Can adding more triple clamp flex give them what magic cure they are looking for? Another part is Fork tube fles could be a major part of this too.
Frames also use the motors for part of the frames bracing and strength and I see some are completely removing motor mounts so the frame actually flexes more. Is this transferring a load in one area of the frame that is now a place that will eventually fail and crack?
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