Eli out at Yamaha?

CPR
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4/23/2025 7:37pm
TbonesPop wrote:
You know what strikes me as odd.  I have never once in my life ever purchased a bike based on what pro rider was riding what...

You know what strikes me as odd.  I have never once in my life ever purchased a bike based on what pro rider was riding what bike at the time.  Never ever crosses my mind.  I have many times purchased products of sponsors who were sponsoring specific riders and still do to this day.  I have no explanation why that is.

CPR wrote:

Shhh don’t tell the manufacturers that 😂

dang472 wrote:
I will say that kids seem to be influenced by what the pros race (at least mine are a little). At 15, I started racing Suzukis...

I will say that kids seem to be influenced by what the pros race (at least mine are a little). At 15, I started racing Suzukis because of Pastrana and contingency and haven’t stopped since. My 14yr old wanted a Honda like Jett but they missed the boat to capture a customer because their mini bike sucks. My Illinois boys are riding KX minis and are excited about Chase going green. That might follow them until they’re buying their own bikes.

We’re going off topic but there’s definitely value in the junior market. KTM didn’t become a sales leader until it started dominating junior racing. Honda and Suzuki are missing the boat there.

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FreshTopEnd
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4/23/2025 7:51pm
TbonesPop wrote:
You know what strikes me as odd.  I have never once in my life ever purchased a bike based on what pro rider was riding what...

You know what strikes me as odd.  I have never once in my life ever purchased a bike based on what pro rider was riding what bike at the time.  Never ever crosses my mind.  I have many times purchased products of sponsors who were sponsoring specific riders and still do to this day.  I have no explanation why that is.

It's less the vibe that someone wants to ride what his favorite rider is on, to me anyway, but rather an elite 50+ SX win rider showing the bike performs well.  The reverse cylinder 450 had a spotty development record and Eli more than anybody (again, to me) established that it is a go-to bike, especially with his elevated performance after the dark years at Kawi where he had more bike failures than at any other time I can remember.  More than Dylan or the Coopers.  And I think whether you're a fan or not most people have a ton of respect for Eli, his talent and work ethic, and freezing him out doesn't seem like a ray of sunshine in terms of brand image.

But business is business.

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4/23/2025 8:05pm
I wasn't really getting into the discussion of which rider sells the most bikes but I agree with you. If anyone is buying bikes based on...

I wasn't really getting into the discussion of which rider sells the most bikes but I agree with you. If anyone is buying bikes based on a rider, it's the younger demographic. I'm 47. What my favorite rider rides is at the bottom of the list when I'm choosing which bike I buy. Is it arguable that Haiden is the most popular rider on either gate? And it's a younger fanbase that will probably want a Yamaha because of him. JMO

Only guessing but I'd doubt most of Haiden's followers don't even ride. 

I was once influenced by Pastrana to go with the RM250 2 stroke (18 years ago)  I was still shit, but that was a fun bike nonetheless. 

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2
Kkawi
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4/23/2025 8:16pm

RV made me want to buy the 2013 KX450F because of how he made the bike look, he was so fast on that thing. Especially during the 2012-2013 season and 2013-2014 season. Granted, I was 17 but it still made a huge impact

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1

The Shop

ktmwoods
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4/23/2025 9:31pm
Mavetism wrote:
Funny how people really bring up the argument that it wouldn't be good for Tomac to get on a "new bike" again. The last time he...

Funny how people really bring up the argument that it wouldn't be good for Tomac to get on a "new bike" again. The last time he went on a "new bike", he won SX, MX, MXON and looked like the FMOTP.

I completely understand the situation at Yamaha, they expected him to be retired by now and had other plans sadly.. I will be pissed though if Eli wants to continue and we don't get to see more of him because teams and the Eli camp can't figure out a new contract..

-MAVERICK- wrote:

To be fair, they had data for the Yamaha.

Ducati and Triumph will have none. 

Does Cairoli not count? 

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ohh_454
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4/23/2025 9:43pm
Mavetism wrote:
Funny how people really bring up the argument that it wouldn't be good for Tomac to get on a "new bike" again. The last time he...

Funny how people really bring up the argument that it wouldn't be good for Tomac to get on a "new bike" again. The last time he went on a "new bike", he won SX, MX, MXON and looked like the FMOTP.

I completely understand the situation at Yamaha, they expected him to be retired by now and had other plans sadly.. I will be pissed though if Eli wants to continue and we don't get to see more of him because teams and the Eli camp can't figure out a new contract..

-MAVERICK- wrote:

To be fair, they had data for the Yamaha.

Ducati and Triumph will have none. 

ktmwoods wrote:

Does Cairoli not count? 

Not for supercross with whoops 😬 

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JJO741
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tomlopez wrote:
I disagree. He was faster than Webb and Roczen by a decent margin to start 2025, and was on par with Jett and Chase's speed (if...

I disagree. He was faster than Webb and Roczen by a decent margin to start 2025, and was on par with Jett and Chase's speed (if not slightly faster). Several riders have stated that the level has gone up in the past few seasons, so if anything, I think current Tomac might be faster than prime Kawasaki Tomac.

CPR wrote:
Tomac was faster than Webb earlier this year, but Roczen? Kenny finished in front of and had faster lap times than Eli in two of the...

Tomac was faster than Webb earlier this year, but Roczen? Kenny finished in front of and had faster lap times than Eli in two of the first three rounds. The fourth round was a triple crown, again Roczen beat Tomac in two of the three races.

 

tomlopez wrote:
Tomac's finishing positions were less than impressive because of horrendous starts. In every race, he was moving through the field at a rate nobody else could...

Tomac's finishing positions were less than impressive because of horrendous starts. In every race, he was moving through the field at a rate nobody else could match. He went from last to 5th at A1, waxed the entire field (including beating Kenny by over 10 sec) at SD with Jett, and at Glendale, he had that insane Main Event 2 ride where he went from near last to 4th in like 10 minutes, and then destroyed the field in the final main. The only round where the speed wasn't blow-your-doors off impressive was A2. He started around like 15th I think, and only got up to 6th or 7th, and it took all moto for him to make up that ground. Still not a bad finishing position when taking into account his start.

Even then, his heat race at A2 he absolutely smoked everyone and I genuinely believe he would have won if he didn’t get major wheel spin on the start. It had just started to rain during the 250 main. 

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1
ando
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4/24/2025 1:43am
ando wrote:
Hypothetical for your factory team - Eli is asking double what Webb is.  Webb has been in the SX title hunt all the way in both...

Hypothetical for your factory team - Eli is asking double what Webb is.  Webb has been in the SX title hunt all the way in both 2024 and 2025.  Eli hadn’t finished a full championship in either SX or MX the last two years.  Do you still pay Eli whatever he’s asking?  

ACBraap wrote:
As race fans, we think of this question as whether the riders race results justify their salary.  The question to a brand has to be 'does...

As race fans, we think of this question as whether the riders race results justify their salary.  The question to a brand has to be 'does this rider on our bike, with the expected results they will achieve, increase our sales relative to what the rider cost'.  Yeah, I think Tomac sells more bikes than Webb..

TbonesPop wrote:
You know what strikes me as odd.  I have never once in my life ever purchased a bike based on what pro rider was riding what...

You know what strikes me as odd.  I have never once in my life ever purchased a bike based on what pro rider was riding what bike at the time.  Never ever crosses my mind.  I have many times purchased products of sponsors who were sponsoring specific riders and still do to this day.  I have no explanation why that is.

My opinion only but I don’t think the connection between winning and selling is what it used to be.

I think there is value in brand association from a rider’s younger years that is more likely to carry through.

I also believe the connection with racing is much more about the fact that the OEMs are out there competing vs actual results.  I mean these are race bikes and it’s case of having to do it because your competitors are doing it. 

burn1986
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4/24/2025 6:37am

Fwiw

2
4/24/2025 6:46am
I wasn't really getting into the discussion of which rider sells the most bikes but I agree with you. If anyone is buying bikes based on...

I wasn't really getting into the discussion of which rider sells the most bikes but I agree with you. If anyone is buying bikes based on a rider, it's the younger demographic. I'm 47. What my favorite rider rides is at the bottom of the list when I'm choosing which bike I buy. Is it arguable that Haiden is the most popular rider on either gate? And it's a younger fanbase that will probably want a Yamaha because of him. JMO

Only guessing but I'd doubt most of Haiden's followers don't even ride. I was once influenced by Pastrana to go with the RM250 2 stroke (18 years...

Only guessing but I'd doubt most of Haiden's followers don't even ride. 

I was once influenced by Pastrana to go with the RM250 2 stroke (18 years ago)  I was still shit, but that was a fun bike nonetheless. 

You doubt they don't ride? Or you doubt they ride? 

Tomac and Ferrandis winning titles have definitely made the YZ450 more popular than it was. You see more at the track now then you did in 2018.

7
Mossy940
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4/24/2025 6:47am
ACBraap wrote:
As race fans, we think of this question as whether the riders race results justify their salary.  The question to a brand has to be 'does...

As race fans, we think of this question as whether the riders race results justify their salary.  The question to a brand has to be 'does this rider on our bike, with the expected results they will achieve, increase our sales relative to what the rider cost'.  Yeah, I think Tomac sells more bikes than Webb..

TbonesPop wrote:
You know what strikes me as odd.  I have never once in my life ever purchased a bike based on what pro rider was riding what...

You know what strikes me as odd.  I have never once in my life ever purchased a bike based on what pro rider was riding what bike at the time.  Never ever crosses my mind.  I have many times purchased products of sponsors who were sponsoring specific riders and still do to this day.  I have no explanation why that is.

ohh_454 wrote:
Hey I wanted to ride Kawis as a kid cause my favorite rider was Emig. Maybe a kids favorite rider has some kind of influence in...

Hey I wanted to ride Kawis as a kid cause my favorite rider was Emig. Maybe a kids favorite rider has some kind of influence in the parents decision on what they buy? 

I 100% had to have an RM 85 because TP199 rode yellow. Had to have the handguards too!

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PRM31
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4/24/2025 7:27am

Having a great, and popular, rider on a bike certainly won't hurt sales or brand image. 

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Nairb#70
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4/24/2025 7:32am Edited Date/Time 4/24/2025 7:38am

Eli will make whatever decision is best for his needs and situation, which leads me to believe he'll stick with Yamaha for his last year if possible, no sense making change this late.

Gary Duck
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4/24/2025 7:40am
burn1986 wrote:

Fwiw

I just built my kid a Supermini to race this year, and now you're telling me Eli is going to KTM to cherry-pick the Supermini class??? 

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inflammable
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4/24/2025 7:53am
Gary Duck wrote:

I just built my kid a Supermini to race this year, and now you're telling me Eli is going to KTM to cherry-pick the Supermini class??? 

You may be on to something here. A change in triple crown format - 1st race is on 450s, 2nd race on 250/300 2-strokes, and 3rd race on superminis.....

17
JazzyJJ
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4/24/2025 8:22am
I wasn't really getting into the discussion of which rider sells the most bikes but I agree with you. If anyone is buying bikes based on...

I wasn't really getting into the discussion of which rider sells the most bikes but I agree with you. If anyone is buying bikes based on a rider, it's the younger demographic. I'm 47. What my favorite rider rides is at the bottom of the list when I'm choosing which bike I buy. Is it arguable that Haiden is the most popular rider on either gate? And it's a younger fanbase that will probably want a Yamaha because of him. JMO

Only guessing but I'd doubt most of Haiden's followers don't even ride. I was once influenced by Pastrana to go with the RM250 2 stroke (18 years...

Only guessing but I'd doubt most of Haiden's followers don't even ride. 

I was once influenced by Pastrana to go with the RM250 2 stroke (18 years ago)  I was still shit, but that was a fun bike nonetheless. 

You doubt they don't ride? Or you doubt they ride? Tomac and Ferrandis winning titles have definitely made the YZ450 more popular than it was. You see...

You doubt they don't ride? Or you doubt they ride? 

Tomac and Ferrandis winning titles have definitely made the YZ450 more popular than it was. You see more at the track now then you did in 2018.

I think all of the shootouts had as much or more to do with the yz450 selling so well

1
davistld01
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4/24/2025 8:36am
JazzyJJ wrote:

I think all of the shootouts had as much or more to do with the yz450 selling so well

Yep. I doubt many “normal” racers decide on what bike to spend their $12-15k on based on the results of pro riders on factory bikes any more. Maybe I’m wrong…

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1
PRM31
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4/24/2025 8:59am

In the US, I believe that what is successful in SX for a professional has almost zero relation to what might work for me. May as well be a MotoGP bike. At least for the Nationals I can sort of maybe make a stretch connection to something that might apply to me.

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1
decano51
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4/24/2025 9:00am
PRM31 wrote:
In the US, I believe that what is successful in SX for a professional has almost zero relation to what might work for me. May as...

In the US, I believe that what is successful in SX for a professional has almost zero relation to what might work for me. May as well be a MotoGP bike. At least for the Nationals I can sort of maybe make a stretch connection to something that might apply to me.

A lot of MXGP riders have an influence on development.

1
PRM31
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4/24/2025 9:08am
PRM31 wrote:
In the US, I believe that what is successful in SX for a professional has almost zero relation to what might work for me. May as...

In the US, I believe that what is successful in SX for a professional has almost zero relation to what might work for me. May as well be a MotoGP bike. At least for the Nationals I can sort of maybe make a stretch connection to something that might apply to me.

decano51 wrote:

A lot of MXGP riders have an influence on development.

I was actually going to add that. Because the MXGP riders focus on outdoors year round I tend to think what they use and how they setup bikes may apply to us normal folks the most. This is why I liked the MXGP Pit Bits so much (RIP). US based riders spend so much time on SX I assume their outdoor settings are influenced by SX. I don't know that for certain, just an assumption. 

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4/24/2025 10:01am
USA wrote:

Yeah and Jett only won a single race in his SX title defense, terrible numbers there as well

Jett’s got age on his side though. 

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soggy
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4/24/2025 10:24am
I wasn't really getting into the discussion of which rider sells the most bikes but I agree with you. If anyone is buying bikes based on...

I wasn't really getting into the discussion of which rider sells the most bikes but I agree with you. If anyone is buying bikes based on a rider, it's the younger demographic. I'm 47. What my favorite rider rides is at the bottom of the list when I'm choosing which bike I buy. Is it arguable that Haiden is the most popular rider on either gate? And it's a younger fanbase that will probably want a Yamaha because of him. JMO

Only guessing but I'd doubt most of Haiden's followers don't even ride. I was once influenced by Pastrana to go with the RM250 2 stroke (18 years...

Only guessing but I'd doubt most of Haiden's followers don't even ride. 

I was once influenced by Pastrana to go with the RM250 2 stroke (18 years ago)  I was still shit, but that was a fun bike nonetheless. 

You doubt they don't ride? Or you doubt they ride? Tomac and Ferrandis winning titles have definitely made the YZ450 more popular than it was. You see...

You doubt they don't ride? Or you doubt they ride? 

Tomac and Ferrandis winning titles have definitely made the YZ450 more popular than it was. You see more at the track now then you did in 2018.

Prior to 18 it was also a much worse bike. Then there are those that prefer the 18-22 gen to the current. 

4/24/2025 11:14am
You may be on to something here. A change in triple crown format - 1st race is on 450s, 2nd race on 250/300 2-strokes, and 3rd...

You may be on to something here. A change in triple crown format - 1st race is on 450s, 2nd race on 250/300 2-strokes, and 3rd race on superminis.....

I nominate Carson Brown. 

8
burn1986
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4/24/2025 11:33am Edited Date/Time 4/24/2025 11:37am
Gary Duck wrote:

I just built my kid a Supermini to race this year, and now you're telling me Eli is going to KTM to cherry-pick the Supermini class??? 

Ahh man, I posted this in the wrong thread Haha

1
4/24/2025 11:35am Edited Date/Time 4/24/2025 11:41am
Only guessing but I'd doubt most of Haiden's followers don't even ride. I was once influenced by Pastrana to go with the RM250 2 stroke (18 years...

Only guessing but I'd doubt most of Haiden's followers don't even ride. 

I was once influenced by Pastrana to go with the RM250 2 stroke (18 years ago)  I was still shit, but that was a fun bike nonetheless. 

You doubt they don't ride? Or you doubt they ride? Tomac and Ferrandis winning titles have definitely made the YZ450 more popular than it was. You see...

You doubt they don't ride? Or you doubt they ride? 

Tomac and Ferrandis winning titles have definitely made the YZ450 more popular than it was. You see more at the track now then you did in 2018.

soggy wrote:

Prior to 18 it was also a much worse bike. Then there are those that prefer the 18-22 gen to the current. 

They were often panned pretty badly still until '21, when Ferrandis proved it can win. This, despite decent reviews and owner satisfaction.

The 'blue pig' was alive and well as a moniker here for sure.

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1
4/24/2025 11:38am
Only guessing but I'd doubt most of Haiden's followers don't even ride. I was once influenced by Pastrana to go with the RM250 2 stroke (18 years...

Only guessing but I'd doubt most of Haiden's followers don't even ride. 

I was once influenced by Pastrana to go with the RM250 2 stroke (18 years ago)  I was still shit, but that was a fun bike nonetheless. 

You doubt they don't ride? Or you doubt they ride? Tomac and Ferrandis winning titles have definitely made the YZ450 more popular than it was. You see...

You doubt they don't ride? Or you doubt they ride? 

Tomac and Ferrandis winning titles have definitely made the YZ450 more popular than it was. You see more at the track now then you did in 2018.

JazzyJJ wrote:

I think all of the shootouts had as much or more to do with the yz450 selling so well

I agree the shootouts helped but watching the bike win titles is confirmation especially coming off a bad rep from 2009-2017. The two go hand in hand. 

1
kawasa84
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4/24/2025 1:03pm
smee113 wrote:
To be fair to Star, it seemed like Tomac was going to retire back in 2023, then in 2024, and then for sure in 2025. It...

To be fair to Star, it seemed like Tomac was going to retire back in 2023, then in 2024, and then for sure in 2025. It don't think it's fair to expect Star to keep a spot open year after year in case Tomac decides to extend it again.

AH387 wrote:
I agree. Remember back at the end of the '22 season there was talk that he was uncertain about plans for '23 but he needed to...

I agree. Remember back at the end of the '22 season there was talk that he was uncertain about plans for '23 but he needed to ride the new bike first and then decide. And every year it's been sort of up in the air if he's retiring, SX only or full year etc. I think that puts the team in a really tough spot. So from that perspective,  I can understand.  That being said, the Yamaha just seems like the bike for Eli. I would love for him to stay, as I think he is still a threat for wins and the title. And just to be clear, I don't fault Eli for taking his future year by year, at his age. He's earned that, at this point. But I also am not surprised that at some point the team may need to move on.

If I remember right on Eli's career so far, and its been a hell of a career, He's won on all 4 Japanese brands with ease. Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha. And has pro championships on at least Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha. So to say the Yamaha fits him? Is kinda silly. He could easily continuse to be great on Yamaha, or would do the same on at least Honda or Kawi. Possibly Suzuki as well. Possibly Triumph? Who knows, but it isn't just Yami

3
2
AH387
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4/24/2025 1:10pm
smee113 wrote:
To be fair to Star, it seemed like Tomac was going to retire back in 2023, then in 2024, and then for sure in 2025. It...

To be fair to Star, it seemed like Tomac was going to retire back in 2023, then in 2024, and then for sure in 2025. It don't think it's fair to expect Star to keep a spot open year after year in case Tomac decides to extend it again.

AH387 wrote:
I agree. Remember back at the end of the '22 season there was talk that he was uncertain about plans for '23 but he needed to...

I agree. Remember back at the end of the '22 season there was talk that he was uncertain about plans for '23 but he needed to ride the new bike first and then decide. And every year it's been sort of up in the air if he's retiring, SX only or full year etc. I think that puts the team in a really tough spot. So from that perspective,  I can understand.  That being said, the Yamaha just seems like the bike for Eli. I would love for him to stay, as I think he is still a threat for wins and the title. And just to be clear, I don't fault Eli for taking his future year by year, at his age. He's earned that, at this point. But I also am not surprised that at some point the team may need to move on.

kawasa84 wrote:
If I remember right on Eli's career so far, and its been a hell of a career, He's won on all 4 Japanese brands with ease...

If I remember right on Eli's career so far, and its been a hell of a career, He's won on all 4 Japanese brands with ease. Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha. And has pro championships on at least Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha. So to say the Yamaha fits him? Is kinda silly. He could easily continuse to be great on Yamaha, or would do the same on at least Honda or Kawi. Possibly Suzuki as well. Possibly Triumph? Who knows, but it isn't just Yami

Ok, I'm not sure why that 1 particular detail has you hung up. Clearly I realize he has won on other brands. But my point in saying that where he is at fits him is because 1) it has a cable clutch, which he prefers. 2) he is at the end of his career and would already be familiar with everything from the bike to the team dynamics, so there would be no adjustment period. 3) The Star team gives him a lot of freedom with parts and set-up that he didn't have at some other teams and may not have if he goes somewhere else. 

So is me saying that really all that controversial? I thought it was a reasonable statement given the points I just listed.

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Johnny Ringo
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4/24/2025 5:39pm

So we are really gonna go 4 years of Eli on a Yamaha and ZERO videos of him riding a YZ250. Fucked. 

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4/24/2025 5:41pm
So we are really gonna go 4 years of Eli on a Yamaha and ZERO videos of him riding a YZ250. Fucked. 

So we are really gonna go 4 years of Eli on a Yamaha and ZERO videos of him riding a YZ250. Fucked. 

If they build him a YZ250 they better harden those transmission parts 😂

3

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