Max Anstie in the 250 class

Herr Lich
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3/13/2025 1:43pm
sam hain wrote:
Sadly the sport and teams in general don't have a hundred 450 spots open, these vet 250 guys just don't have anywhere to go IMO. Most...

Sadly the sport and teams in general don't have a hundred 450 spots open, these vet 250 guys just don't have anywhere to go IMO. Most factory 450 teams only have one or two spots open so between like 9 teams (counting Triumph and Ducati) you're looking at like 18-20 spots max. And that doesn't include current 450 guys already on those teams. Right now the sport is just to saturated with pro's and theirs nowhere for them to go. I also think theirs a big talent gap in the sport as well, all the guys that make the night show are highly talented but the guys outside the top 10 aren't in the same league as those inside the top 10. Those guys just aren't factory material IMO.

As long as the financial incentives structure remains the same, sandbaggers like Old J Hampshire, Jordan Old, and Aged Anstie will keep doing what they're doing. There are 450 rides on second tier teams (Quadlock Honda etc) for these kinds of guys but they don't want to take a massive pay cut and never appear on TV again. 

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Herr Lich
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3/13/2025 1:48pm Edited Date/Time 3/13/2025 1:48pm
sam hain wrote:
I agree, I don't see any of these old head 250 guys taking the 450 class by storm or they would have already moved up and...

I agree, I don't see any of these old head 250 guys taking the 450 class by storm or they would have already moved up and done it.

Agreed. Look how many of the current 8th to 15th place 450 guys were either 250 regional champions or top race winning 250 riders. Apart from the LCQers at the back of the pack nearly everyone in the field were ono of these guys. People like Anstie would barely crack the top 10 (and we know this because he was in the 450 class). And don't go on about him not being on a factory team. Factory rides can't move someone from being a 14th place rider to 5th. 

8
Joey Bridges
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3/13/2025 3:13pm Edited Date/Time 3/13/2025 3:13pm

^^^^

The two posts above, I HAVE NOT BLOCKED, NOR THE POSTER,  so why does it state that I have  ???

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Spoonguy
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3/14/2025 4:35am

I think some riders could move up to 450s, Deegan, RJ did well at Daytona on a 450 once, most 250 front runners could maybe be in that Plessinger, Mookie, Barcia, Anderson area with time. One thing is certain if they never move out, they will never know. Makes one wonder if spending years and years on a 250 in SX makes it harder to adapt to a 450.

1

The Shop

aees
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3/14/2025 5:27am

Would be great to see Anderson, Barcia dropping down to 250.

Some other national series in Europe allows for this and everything becomes much more entertaining 

4
Spoonguy
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3/15/2025 10:23am

What is going to be interesting is if Vialle wins the championship again this year, he has to move up. RJ evidently is already signed to a 450 for next year. Deegan is talking of moving up next year. Any other 250 riders moving up? Which 450 riders are going to make room?

ATKpilot99
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3/15/2025 10:33am

^^^^

The two posts above, I HAVE NOT BLOCKED, NOR THE POSTER,  so why does it state that I have  ???

The new system works by telekinesis.  Subconsciously you want to block him . 

3
971_Fan
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3/15/2025 11:09am

Don't agree with op, but liked it just to keep title from being hidden. 

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2
Village Idiot
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3/15/2025 2:52pm
971_Fan wrote:

Don't agree with op, but liked it just to keep title from being hidden. 

And I upvoted you to help keep you from being hidden. 👍

Pay it forward - a new game on Vital? 

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mb60
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3/15/2025 3:48pm

Man it's the same thing every year Craig, J Marr, RJ , Jordan Smith or Anstie. Who cares they are all pros and me personally I enjoy watching 250 class over the 450 class most of the time. 

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971_Fan
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3/15/2025 4:04pm
mb60 wrote:
Man it's the same thing every year Craig, J Marr, RJ , Jordan Smith or Anstie. Who cares they are all pros and me personally I...

Man it's the same thing every year Craig, J Marr, RJ , Jordan Smith or Anstie. Who cares they are all pros and me personally I enjoy watching 250 class over the 450 class most of the time. 

Not only are they pros (can't sandbag the pro class, but young guns will always be aiming for them and like you said, the class is often more exciting to watch. 

2
yz133rider
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3/15/2025 5:19pm

Honest question anyone have the time or interest to figure this out?


How many years does antsie have in supercross? 3-4?

How many years do his competitors even the younger ones? I’m betting there’s 25 year olds he’s against with 8 years or so and he’s getting shit on for being 30 something and having less than 5 years of sx experience.

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3
3/15/2025 10:55pm

I can't remember if Zach Osborne was receiving the same criticism that Anstie is getting for essentially having the same career at this point in Max's career (before Zach moved up to 450s and won a title) 

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Jaymz
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3/16/2025 4:25am

250 class ain't the fully feeder class it was. The 250's run in the same event on the same night and on the same track. It's part of the professional sport of Supercross. If the best riders are on 450's then the next best are on 250's along with the young ones good enough to try and make it. The fans deserve the best there is in both classes.

Want a feeder series? Try Futures or AX.

4
Herr Lich
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3/17/2025 1:49pm
yz133rider wrote:
Honest question anyone have the time or interest to figure this out?How many years does antsie have in supercross? 3-4?How many years do his competitors even...

Honest question anyone have the time or interest to figure this out?


How many years does antsie have in supercross? 3-4?

How many years do his competitors even the younger ones? I’m betting there’s 25 year olds he’s against with 8 years or so and he’s getting shit on for being 30 something and having less than 5 years of sx experience.

He did one season of 250 SX in 2010, then started SX again in 2021 on 450s. So this is his sixth season all up. 

yz133rider
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3/17/2025 2:03pm
yz133rider wrote:
Honest question anyone have the time or interest to figure this out?How many years does antsie have in supercross? 3-4?How many years do his competitors even...

Honest question anyone have the time or interest to figure this out?


How many years does antsie have in supercross? 3-4?

How many years do his competitors even the younger ones? I’m betting there’s 25 year olds he’s against with 8 years or so and he’s getting shit on for being 30 something and having less than 5 years of sx experience.

Herr Lich wrote:

He did one season of 250 SX in 2010, then started SX again in 2021 on 450s. So this is his sixth season all up. 

That’s nothing compared to many he’s up against.

Press516
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Fantasy
3/17/2025 2:10pm

You ride the bike that your contract says you ride...  Or become a privateer and pay your own way.  

Which would you choose??

3/17/2025 3:15pm

In my opinion you can’t call anyone with an AMA pro license a “sandbagger”!

3
pummel
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3/17/2025 3:18pm
I'm watching 2022 outdoor races and I see Anstie was doing pretty well. Does anyone know why Max moved down to the 250 class? He's like 30...

I'm watching 2022 outdoor races and I see Anstie was doing pretty well. Does anyone know why Max moved down to the 250 class? 

He's like 30 and smoking all the kids. I'm not sure if I would call it sand bagging but it's not making sense to me.

steveloyer wrote:

Do you want him delivering packages for UPS?

There might be a bike shop in Rochester that needs a counter guy....

Herr Lich
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3/17/2025 7:19pm

In my opinion you can’t call anyone with an AMA pro license a “sandbagger”!

Here's one for you. Getting ready to see if he can wrangle a few more years against 17-year-olds.

Screenshot 20250318-151415~2%281%29%281%29
3
3/18/2025 6:02am

In my opinion you can’t call anyone with an AMA pro license a “sandbagger”!

Herr Lich wrote:
Here's one for you. Getting ready to see if he can wrangle a few more years against 17-year-olds.

Here's one for you. Getting ready to see if he can wrangle a few more years against 17-year-olds.

Screenshot 20250318-151415~2%281%29%281%29

Who on the East Coast is 17 years old?

3/18/2025 2:32pm
mxpappy711 wrote:
Problem is 250 was a feeder class for us for years. Ride a 125/250 couple years and move up. I believe we (AMA) had a max...

Problem is 250 was a feeder class for us for years. Ride a 125/250 couple years and move up. I believe we (AMA) had a max age? 
Now that rule changed? And some of my fellow old fucks are confused.

What he is doing is within the rules AMA has established. I liked the old way better but I thought Joe was sharp as a tack so might be wrong 

Kevin852 wrote:

As far as I remember the 125/250 class never had a max age. Just a points system for mandatory move up. 

And only for the Regional SX classes, not the Outdoor MX series.This is 4T era phenomenon - there used to be 125 specialists in the Nationals...

And only for the Regional SX classes, not the Outdoor MX series.

This is 4T era phenomenon - there used to be 125 specialists in the Nationals and GPs and no one accused them of cherry picking or sandbagging.

Actually they (He) did...........i am referring to roger de coster of course.....he called out mark barnett back in the day.............and stated clearly that the 125cc should be a development class   mind you the there was still a 250 and 500 class back then for the adults.

Village Idiot
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3/18/2025 3:11pm Edited Date/Time 3/18/2025 3:12pm
Kevin852 wrote:

As far as I remember the 125/250 class never had a max age. Just a points system for mandatory move up. 

And only for the Regional SX classes, not the Outdoor MX series.This is 4T era phenomenon - there used to be 125 specialists in the Nationals...

And only for the Regional SX classes, not the Outdoor MX series.

This is 4T era phenomenon - there used to be 125 specialists in the Nationals and GPs and no one accused them of cherry picking or sandbagging.

Actually they (He) did...........i am referring to roger de coster of course.....he called out mark barnett back in the day.............and stated clearly that the 125cc should...

Actually they (He) did...........i am referring to roger de coster of course.....he called out mark barnett back in the day.............and stated clearly that the 125cc should be a development class   mind you the there was still a 250 and 500 class back then for the adults.

I guess RD didn't think the 125 class was for adults? 😄

He was entitled to his opinion, but I would say to him that those were factory teams with factory riders Barnett was beating handily, not privateers or amateurs, they were same level competition and there were no age or point-limiting rules back then. And I don't remember hearing a lot of fans disparage him or Marty Smith or any of the other 125 champs as being sandbaggers. Conversely, I seem to remember Marty being a huge idol for a lot of people.

And let me rephrase - there wasn't this prevalent attitude that the lower cc classes champs were sandbagging. I don't remember hearing it when Everts won three consecutive 125 World titles. I can't remember loud calls (did RD criticize him?) for Robert to move to the 500 class while he was stacking 250 titiles when the 500 class was considered the Big Boy class by most. This seems to be a recent trend, perhaps rooted in the AMA having the Regional classes in SX and then the FIM age-limiting a class that has created this attitude in many?

And exactly how does one sandbag a Pro MX class? It's the top of the ladder - no dropping down to beat lesser skilled riders - a pro is a pro. Some better than others... and that's what they race to show. 👍

Anyway, I for one miss the three classes and the specialization by some riders - be they 125, 250 or 500 specialists. Those were some great days!

Herr Lich
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3/21/2025 9:20pm

In my opinion you can’t call anyone with an AMA pro license a “sandbagger”!

Herr Lich wrote:
Here's one for you. Getting ready to see if he can wrangle a few more years against 17-year-olds.

Here's one for you. Getting ready to see if he can wrangle a few more years against 17-year-olds.

Screenshot 20250318-151415~2%281%29%281%29

Haha, Old Anstie just referenced criticism that he was racing 'against 17-year-olds' in his latest interview with Lewis. Lurking Vital by any chance?

1
Herr Lich
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3/21/2025 9:32pm
And only for the Regional SX classes, not the Outdoor MX series.This is 4T era phenomenon - there used to be 125 specialists in the Nationals...

And only for the Regional SX classes, not the Outdoor MX series.

This is 4T era phenomenon - there used to be 125 specialists in the Nationals and GPs and no one accused them of cherry picking or sandbagging.

Actually they (He) did...........i am referring to roger de coster of course.....he called out mark barnett back in the day.............and stated clearly that the 125cc should...

Actually they (He) did...........i am referring to roger de coster of course.....he called out mark barnett back in the day.............and stated clearly that the 125cc should be a development class   mind you the there was still a 250 and 500 class back then for the adults.

I guess RD didn't think the 125 class was for adults? 😄He was entitled to his opinion, but I would say to him that those...

I guess RD didn't think the 125 class was for adults? 😄

He was entitled to his opinion, but I would say to him that those were factory teams with factory riders Barnett was beating handily, not privateers or amateurs, they were same level competition and there were no age or point-limiting rules back then. And I don't remember hearing a lot of fans disparage him or Marty Smith or any of the other 125 champs as being sandbaggers. Conversely, I seem to remember Marty being a huge idol for a lot of people.

And let me rephrase - there wasn't this prevalent attitude that the lower cc classes champs were sandbagging. I don't remember hearing it when Everts won three consecutive 125 World titles. I can't remember loud calls (did RD criticize him?) for Robert to move to the 500 class while he was stacking 250 titiles when the 500 class was considered the Big Boy class by most. This seems to be a recent trend, perhaps rooted in the AMA having the Regional classes in SX and then the FIM age-limiting a class that has created this attitude in many?

And exactly how does one sandbag a Pro MX class? It's the top of the ladder - no dropping down to beat lesser skilled riders - a pro is a pro. Some better than others... and that's what they race to show. 👍

Anyway, I for one miss the three classes and the specialization by some riders - be they 125, 250 or 500 specialists. Those were some great days!

Well, let's have a look...

There are various parts to the definition but the relevant one here is:

When a player (Max Anstie, RJ Hampshire, Jordan Smith) purposefully enters an event or tournament at a lower level with the intention to dominate.

To enter a lower-level competition and then have a better chance of winning. 
 
All three are in the 250 class because they can get more money and recognition by competing against riders they have more chance of beating. While there is a chance they could do well in the 450 class, the fact that better riders than them have slipped into relative obscurity after moving up (Dylan Ferrandis in SX comes to mind) means they have made the decision to stack large bags of sand for years on end. 
 
By the way, Everts won the 125 world championship once - in 1991 -  and was aged 19 when he did so. A better example of sandbagging in MXGP was Herlings - although of course he was also the best in the 450 class. 
1
Village Idiot
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3/21/2025 9:45pm Edited Date/Time 3/21/2025 9:46pm
Actually they (He) did...........i am referring to roger de coster of course.....he called out mark barnett back in the day.............and stated clearly that the 125cc should...

Actually they (He) did...........i am referring to roger de coster of course.....he called out mark barnett back in the day.............and stated clearly that the 125cc should be a development class   mind you the there was still a 250 and 500 class back then for the adults.

I guess RD didn't think the 125 class was for adults? 😄He was entitled to his opinion, but I would say to him that those...

I guess RD didn't think the 125 class was for adults? 😄

He was entitled to his opinion, but I would say to him that those were factory teams with factory riders Barnett was beating handily, not privateers or amateurs, they were same level competition and there were no age or point-limiting rules back then. And I don't remember hearing a lot of fans disparage him or Marty Smith or any of the other 125 champs as being sandbaggers. Conversely, I seem to remember Marty being a huge idol for a lot of people.

And let me rephrase - there wasn't this prevalent attitude that the lower cc classes champs were sandbagging. I don't remember hearing it when Everts won three consecutive 125 World titles. I can't remember loud calls (did RD criticize him?) for Robert to move to the 500 class while he was stacking 250 titiles when the 500 class was considered the Big Boy class by most. This seems to be a recent trend, perhaps rooted in the AMA having the Regional classes in SX and then the FIM age-limiting a class that has created this attitude in many?

And exactly how does one sandbag a Pro MX class? It's the top of the ladder - no dropping down to beat lesser skilled riders - a pro is a pro. Some better than others... and that's what they race to show. 👍

Anyway, I for one miss the three classes and the specialization by some riders - be they 125, 250 or 500 specialists. Those were some great days!

Herr Lich wrote:
Well, let's have a look...There are various parts to the definition but the relevant one here is:When a player (Max Anstie, RJ Hampshire, Jordan Smith)...

Well, let's have a look...

There are various parts to the definition but the relevant one here is:

When a player (Max Anstie, RJ Hampshire, Jordan Smith) purposefully enters an event or tournament at a lower level with the intention to dominate.

To enter a lower-level competition and then have a better chance of winning. 
 
All three are in the 250 class because they can get more money and recognition by competing against riders they have more chance of beating. While there is a chance they could do well in the 450 class, the fact that better riders than them have slipped into relative obscurity after moving up (Dylan Ferrandis in SX comes to mind) means they have made the decision to stack large bags of sand for years on end. 
 
By the way, Everts won the 125 world championship once - in 1991 -  and was aged 19 when he did so. A better example of sandbagging in MXGP was Herlings - although of course he was also the best in the 450 class. 

Again, they are Pro riders in a Pro class - not like they're showing up in a SX Futures race. That's just a fact, the other is opinion and personal preference.

And by the way, Everts did win the 125 World Championship THREE (3) years in a row: 1979-1981.

That's Harry Everts. Better known to Stefan Everts as, "Who's your daddy?".

Or does your moto history not go back that far? 🤪 😄

1
Herr Lich
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3/21/2025 11:19pm
I guess RD didn't think the 125 class was for adults? 😄He was entitled to his opinion, but I would say to him that those...

I guess RD didn't think the 125 class was for adults? 😄

He was entitled to his opinion, but I would say to him that those were factory teams with factory riders Barnett was beating handily, not privateers or amateurs, they were same level competition and there were no age or point-limiting rules back then. And I don't remember hearing a lot of fans disparage him or Marty Smith or any of the other 125 champs as being sandbaggers. Conversely, I seem to remember Marty being a huge idol for a lot of people.

And let me rephrase - there wasn't this prevalent attitude that the lower cc classes champs were sandbagging. I don't remember hearing it when Everts won three consecutive 125 World titles. I can't remember loud calls (did RD criticize him?) for Robert to move to the 500 class while he was stacking 250 titiles when the 500 class was considered the Big Boy class by most. This seems to be a recent trend, perhaps rooted in the AMA having the Regional classes in SX and then the FIM age-limiting a class that has created this attitude in many?

And exactly how does one sandbag a Pro MX class? It's the top of the ladder - no dropping down to beat lesser skilled riders - a pro is a pro. Some better than others... and that's what they race to show. 👍

Anyway, I for one miss the three classes and the specialization by some riders - be they 125, 250 or 500 specialists. Those were some great days!

Herr Lich wrote:
Well, let's have a look...There are various parts to the definition but the relevant one here is:When a player (Max Anstie, RJ Hampshire, Jordan Smith)...

Well, let's have a look...

There are various parts to the definition but the relevant one here is:

When a player (Max Anstie, RJ Hampshire, Jordan Smith) purposefully enters an event or tournament at a lower level with the intention to dominate.

To enter a lower-level competition and then have a better chance of winning. 
 
All three are in the 250 class because they can get more money and recognition by competing against riders they have more chance of beating. While there is a chance they could do well in the 450 class, the fact that better riders than them have slipped into relative obscurity after moving up (Dylan Ferrandis in SX comes to mind) means they have made the decision to stack large bags of sand for years on end. 
 
By the way, Everts won the 125 world championship once - in 1991 -  and was aged 19 when he did so. A better example of sandbagging in MXGP was Herlings - although of course he was also the best in the 450 class. 
Again, they are Pro riders in a Pro class - not like they're showing up in a SX Futures race. That's just a fact, the other...

Again, they are Pro riders in a Pro class - not like they're showing up in a SX Futures race. That's just a fact, the other is opinion and personal preference.

And by the way, Everts did win the 125 World Championship THREE (3) years in a row: 1979-1981.

That's Harry Everts. Better known to Stefan Everts as, "Who's your daddy?".

Or does your moto history not go back that far? 🤪 😄

I'd be willing to bet 99.9 per cent of moto fans would think Everts meant Stefan Everts. And yes, I do know who Harry Everts is. I also know that Stefan is by far the most successful of the Everts family. Hence, when people say just Everts, they usually mean Stefan. Max Anstie is still a sandbagger by the way. 

1
Village Idiot
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3/22/2025 7:27am
Herr Lich wrote:
I'd be willing to bet 99.9 per cent of moto fans would think Everts meant Stefan Everts. And yes, I do know who Harry Everts is...

I'd be willing to bet 99.9 per cent of moto fans would think Everts meant Stefan Everts. And yes, I do know who Harry Everts is. I also know that Stefan is by far the most successful of the Everts family. Hence, when people say just Everts, they usually mean Stefan. Max Anstie is still a sandbagger by the way. 

So, I mention Robert and DeCoster in the sentence right after referencing Everts winning 3 straight 125 World titles and Harry never entered your mind (since you didn't mention him and told me Everts only won ONE 125 title in '91)? And you along with 999 out of every 1000 moto fans would think that because Stefan didn't win 3 consecutive 125 titles and Harry did

Riiiiight....

You can take that logic and fill all of Max's sandbags with it. 😄 😛

3/22/2025 11:49am

Shit, he just broke his leg!!!😭😭😭

toomanykaws
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3/22/2025 11:59am
Many say the 250 class structure is broken. Should only be one 250 series all 17 rounds. No East and West. That leaves a whole lot riders out. Teams and personal. Many jobs. Seems like the current 450 and 250 classes are geared for TV. Fans in the stadium probably wouldn’t mind if there were two 450 classes. The track wouldn’t like it. Same for the 250s. The other argument is anyone that’s older in the 250 class needs to move up. Where? What teams? The whole funnel system to the top gets very small quickly. Unfortunately.

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