What oil, fuel for new 4 stroke?

Falcon
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Falcon 6/24/2022 8:30am
6/24/2022 8:30am
Falcon wrote:
I'm not sure I believe this, but several oil scientists and motorcycle engineers have told me to run a conventional oil for the break-in period, and...
I'm not sure I believe this, but several oil scientists and motorcycle engineers have told me to run a conventional oil for the break-in period, and then switch to synthetic. All of them say to change your oil more often, rather than buying more expensive oil. Of course, expensive oil AND changing it more often is the best combination.
wrc777 wrote:
The thinking is things don’t break in correctly with synthetic because it is so slick.
theraptur712 wrote:
Also, incorrect.
Right. This is what I'm thinking. The logic is that the parts don't mate as well when they are being "over-protected" by the synthetic oil, but synthetic isn't magic. There's still surface friction going on, just at a (slightly) slower rate.

The part I do agree with is to change your oil more often; that's better than any synthetic benefit. No matter how good your oil is, it still gets contaminated by particles and combustion byproducts.
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MX558
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MX558 6/25/2022 7:45am
6/25/2022 7:45am
After listening to the Keefer podcast with Jamie and the guy from xpr I might try Motul . They both said rotella ain't what it used to be . I've been running Mobil 1 4t oil in my kx450 and Motorex in my 350 . My Kx shifts great the KTM is just ok at best
wwdiii
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wwdiii 6/25/2022 8:38am
6/25/2022 8:38am
When I bought a YZ250f 3 years back I had to do a little research on oil and etc. I’d never had anything but two strokes. First thing I did was get a service manual, see what Yamaha had to say. Then read what the guys with experience on this site and others used had to say.

Ended up using the same Rotella as I run in my tractor.
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OrangeJuice158 6/25/2022 9:22am
6/25/2022 9:22am
Curious why you don’t want to run pump gas if it’s a stock engine package? No opinion either way, just curious.
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The Shop

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Broseph
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Broseph 6/25/2022 9:31am
6/25/2022 9:31am
MX558 wrote:
After listening to the Keefer podcast with Jamie and the guy from xpr I might try Motul . They both said rotella ain't what it used...
After listening to the Keefer podcast with Jamie and the guy from xpr I might try Motul . They both said rotella ain't what it used to be . I've been running Mobil 1 4t oil in my kx450 and Motorex in my 350 . My Kx shifts great the KTM is just ok at best
Did they say how Rotella changed?
-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 6/25/2022 9:35am
6/25/2022 9:35am
MX558 wrote:
After listening to the Keefer podcast with Jamie and the guy from xpr I might try Motul . They both said rotella ain't what it used...
After listening to the Keefer podcast with Jamie and the guy from xpr I might try Motul . They both said rotella ain't what it used to be . I've been running Mobil 1 4t oil in my kx450 and Motorex in my 350 . My Kx shifts great the KTM is just ok at best
We ran Motul for years. Great quality products.
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bvm111
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bvm111 6/25/2022 9:36am
6/25/2022 9:36am Edited Date/Time 6/25/2022 9:37am
MX558 wrote:
After listening to the Keefer podcast with Jamie and the guy from xpr I might try Motul . They both said rotella ain't what it used...
After listening to the Keefer podcast with Jamie and the guy from xpr I might try Motul . They both said rotella ain't what it used to be . I've been running Mobil 1 4t oil in my kx450 and Motorex in my 350 . My Kx shifts great the KTM is just ok at best
I switched to Maxima Pro Plus 10/50 due to the notchy shifting I was getting from the motorex on my KTMs, both on my 350 and 450 and the shifting vastly improved. It is good quality oil, maxima has never let me down on any of their products and more affordable than the Motorex.
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MX558
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MX558 6/25/2022 9:37am
6/25/2022 9:37am
MX558 wrote:
After listening to the Keefer podcast with Jamie and the guy from xpr I might try Motul . They both said rotella ain't what it used...
After listening to the Keefer podcast with Jamie and the guy from xpr I might try Motul . They both said rotella ain't what it used to be . I've been running Mobil 1 4t oil in my kx450 and Motorex in my 350 . My Kx shifts great the KTM is just ok at best
Broseph wrote:
Did they say how Rotella changed?
I guess they added too many purifiers I think. The podcast is a good listen for sure.
quadzrulebro 6/25/2022 9:41am
6/25/2022 9:41am
If it is a stock motor, whatever the manual says.
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JM825
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JM825 6/25/2022 2:19pm
6/25/2022 2:19pm
Falcon wrote:
I'm not sure I believe this, but several oil scientists and motorcycle engineers have told me to run a conventional oil for the break-in period, and...
I'm not sure I believe this, but several oil scientists and motorcycle engineers have told me to run a conventional oil for the break-in period, and then switch to synthetic. All of them say to change your oil more often, rather than buying more expensive oil. Of course, expensive oil AND changing it more often is the best combination.
This is correct. Conventional oil (mineral) has more friction which helps with the break in process. Think of it as a very fine grit sand paper. When it comes to how often to change your oil there is no perfect science because everyone’s riding style varies so differently. General rule of thumb is changing every 3 rides, but again that varies based on how the individual rides. The reason you would change your oil more with “cheaper” oil is due to those oils not having the same additives to handle repetitive heat cycles which could lead to the oil breaking down quicker. More expensive oils will have those “fancier” additives to handle the heat cycles and will usually leave the internals of your engine cleaner.

Hope that helps
kawasa84
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kawasa84 6/27/2022 4:40am
6/27/2022 4:40am
Luke_Richards wrote:
I run motul and 93 pump, I usually just get enough gas for the day, I’ll pump a couple gallons of 93 in my truck to...
I run motul and 93 pump, I usually just get enough gas for the day, I’ll pump a couple gallons of 93 in my truck to make sure I’m getting straight 93, not a hose full of 87 then 93. Some ethanol guard also.
Funny, I've alway's done this same thing to make sure I'm only getting premium and not the cheap stuff in the hose from the last person
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kawasa84
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kawasa84 6/27/2022 4:42am
6/27/2022 4:42am
Smith922 wrote:
Renegade MX4 or HR102 is good stuff and is usually cheaper than VP a litte.
Good to know on the Renegade fuel. I've looked at their website previously, but wasn't as familiar with their fuel selection as Sunoco, and VP race fuels. I'll check this out
bigk218
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bigk218 6/27/2022 4:43am
6/27/2022 4:43am
How dare you
kNewc
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kNewc 7/1/2022 7:42am
7/1/2022 7:42am Edited Date/Time 7/1/2022 7:43am
OrangeJuice158 wrote:
Curious why you don’t want to run pump gas if it’s a stock engine package? No opinion either way, just curious.
I only run T4 in my new bike, but the gas in our area sucks! It's hard to find a station that doesn't have ethanol-free fuel. If you use pump gas in our area you will end up cleaning the carb as often as changing oil. It just isn't worth it IMO.
fc202
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fc202 8/30/2024 3:34am
8/30/2024 3:34am
kawasa84 wrote:
Older vet rider, never owned a 4 stroke, but bought a new one yesterday. Can I run synthetic oil in the transmission? or stick with conventional...
Older vet rider, never owned a 4 stroke, but bought a new one yesterday.

Can I run synthetic oil in the transmission? or stick with conventional?

I currently run a leaded high octane fuel in my 2 strokes because of milled heads & porting work and jetted carbs.
What race fuel can I run in a new KX250? Do I have to run unleaded? Can I run Oxygenated without mapping issues?

What about break in? 3 heat cycles?

Thanks and I'll have more questions on this bike in the future

Based on your questions , first step is read the manual, secondly yes you’ll need mapping changes for those fuels , and yes synthetic is great in the modern 4. Strokes, I suggest blud lubricants of maxims but there’s lots of good oils out there , long as it’s a good quality synthetic your fine, and you run the same oil in the motor as the tranny, there’s no seperate system for the tranny it’s one oil change for it all 

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DJS721
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DJS721 8/30/2024 4:37am
8/30/2024 4:37am
kawasa84 wrote:
Older vet rider, never owned a 4 stroke, but bought a new one yesterday. Can I run synthetic oil in the transmission? or stick with conventional...
Older vet rider, never owned a 4 stroke, but bought a new one yesterday.

Can I run synthetic oil in the transmission? or stick with conventional?

I currently run a leaded high octane fuel in my 2 strokes because of milled heads & porting work and jetted carbs.
What race fuel can I run in a new KX250? Do I have to run unleaded? Can I run Oxygenated without mapping issues?

What about break in? 3 heat cycles?

Thanks and I'll have more questions on this bike in the future

Vet guy here also

For my new '24 KX250, I used only Kawasaki non synthetic 10W40 oil since new with OEM or ProX filters changed every ride (~2.5 hours per ride)

Break in was ~60 minutes heat cycle (warm it up, through the gears, cool down, repeat), then oil change after. First track ride was spent going easy, but through the gears up and down, no stready throttle, and also getting to know the bike overall, break in the suspension, etc. That first ride was about 1.5 hours on the meter.

I have used VP110 (this is leaded) pretty much in all my four strokes, just to have consistent fuel quality - I think it is Ok to mix this down with 93 pump. I have not used oxygenated fuel so I cannot speak to that as far as maps. For now I am on the stock coupler, but I will be trying the white coupler next.

Also, I use No Toil and service the filter every ride

Used this break in on my '19 KX450 also, and it served me well. I stayed with Kawasaki oil, and will probably do the same with this 250.

PRM31
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PRM31 8/30/2024 4:58am
8/30/2024 4:58am

The OP probably has it figured out by now. 

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40acres
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40acres 8/30/2024 5:54am
8/30/2024 5:54am
PRM31 wrote:

The OP probably has it figured out by now. 

Like, how do they even find these old posts to comment on? 

MotoTribology 8/30/2024 6:08am
8/30/2024 6:08am
PRM31 wrote:

The OP probably has it figured out by now. 

Probably almost done with the break-in by now.

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AMetts
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AMetts 8/30/2024 8:45am
8/30/2024 8:45am
PRM31 wrote:

The OP probably has it figured out by now. 

MotoTribology wrote:

Probably almost done with the break-in by now.

Not sure what is worse the people digging up these old question threads or the guys that thing they need to do any type of heat cycle break in on a new modern bike. 

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Timo
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Timo 8/30/2024 11:55am
8/30/2024 11:55am

If it's hot out 20W-50 Walmart oil, if it's cold 15w-40 Walmart oil, I don't even run the motorcycle specific stuff anymore. Pump 91 is all the fuel you'll need on a new bike.

kawasa84
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kawasa84 8/30/2024 1:05pm
8/30/2024 1:05pm
PRM31 wrote:

The OP probably has it figured out by now. 

That was worth a trophy right there.  Like I've been waiting for that answer......Now I can finally go ride!!

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