Suzuki developing electric MX bikes...

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Silas444
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6/6/2024 6:11am

Cycle World seems to be the best at sniffing out E-bike patent info, which is the best way to know what's going on behind the scenes, I think. They've had a few pics of the patent drawings on Yamaha's E-bike too. That bike, in the drawings anyway, is based on their YZ85. At the risk of repeating myself one too many times, I'll say once more that I think the 85cc equivalent "playbike" sector is the market most likely to explode, because it would be so easy to take a couple acres or even a large back yard and make a track suitable for them. 

Honda's CRF150R has hardly had any changes at all in well over a decade, nor have so many other OEM bikes in the 85 class, so a "revolution" would certainly make sense there. 2025 might be one helluva fascinating year, at least in terms of seeing what the future will hold. If one of them (or Stark) makes what I'm hoping they will, I will be speaking loudly with MY wallet, I'll say that.

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GrapeApe
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6/6/2024 6:16am Edited Date/Time 6/6/2024 6:17am

I don't understand what they are trying to protect with this patent. It's just an electric motor bolted to an existing RMZ frame and swing arm. Not much "development" happening.

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6/6/2024 6:17am

Wouldn’t it be the ultimate plot twist if it’s top of the class when it comes out, and the reason is they spent all their energy in the last 5 years on it

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The Shop

Spoonguy
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6/6/2024 6:31am
Wouldn’t it be the ultimate plot twist if it’s top of the class when it comes out, and the reason is they spent all their energy...

Wouldn’t it be the ultimate plot twist if it’s top of the class when it comes out, and the reason is they spent all their energy in the last 5 years on it

If ultimate plot twist means unlikely, then yes.

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dkurtd
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6/6/2024 6:33am

I believe the OEM that wins the electric bike wars will be the one that figures out how to make it weigh the least.  Nobody wants a 260lb dirt bike (Stark Varg weighs 263 and Alta MXR at 267lb).

Stark Varg - How much does it weigh? - YouTube

 

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Beeby
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6/6/2024 6:44am

Imagine if after the last decade of everyone criticising Suzuki for lack of innovation in the sport they are the ones that release the e-bike that completely revolutionises it haha. 

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6/6/2024 6:48am
dkurtd wrote:
I believe the OEM that wins the electric bike wars will be the one that figures out how to make it weigh the least.  Nobody wants...

I believe the OEM that wins the electric bike wars will be the one that figures out how to make it weigh the least.  Nobody wants a 260lb dirt bike (Stark Varg weighs 263 and Alta MXR at 267lb).

Stark Varg - How much does it weigh? - YouTube

 

Since the weight is in the center and low it’s not a big deal at all in the track. Actually handles great. Plus, you get stronger lifting it on and off the stand. Smile

Weight won’t be the issue for sales it will be a race to the bottom on pricing for eMX. 

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GrapeApe
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6/6/2024 6:52am
Beeby wrote:
Imagine if after the last decade of everyone criticising Suzuki for lack of innovation in the sport they are the ones that release the e-bike that...

Imagine if after the last decade of everyone criticising Suzuki for lack of innovation in the sport they are the ones that release the e-bike that completely revolutionises it haha. 

So they have spent the last 10 years trying to figure out how to bolt an electric motor to an existing RMZ frame? lol

 

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BoxcarWilly
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6/6/2024 6:53am
dkurtd wrote:
I believe the OEM that wins the electric bike wars will be the one that figures out how to make it weigh the least.  Nobody wants...

I believe the OEM that wins the electric bike wars will be the one that figures out how to make it weigh the least.  Nobody wants a 260lb dirt bike (Stark Varg weighs 263 and Alta MXR at 267lb).

Stark Varg - How much does it weigh? - YouTube

 

You need to ride one. They both feel like they weigh 200lbs. 

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bayodome
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6/6/2024 7:34am
dkurtd wrote:
I believe the OEM that wins the electric bike wars will be the one that figures out how to make it weigh the least.  Nobody wants...

I believe the OEM that wins the electric bike wars will be the one that figures out how to make it weigh the least.  Nobody wants a 260lb dirt bike (Stark Varg weighs 263 and Alta MXR at 267lb).

Stark Varg - How much does it weigh? - YouTube

 

Try riding one.

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mxtech1
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6/6/2024 8:07am Edited Date/Time 6/6/2024 8:09am
GrapeApe wrote:
I don't understand what they are trying to protect with this patent. It's just an electric motor bolted to an existing RMZ frame and swing arm...

I don't understand what they are trying to protect with this patent. It's just an electric motor bolted to an existing RMZ frame and swing arm. Not much "development" happening.

Did you read the article?

 

It clearly states the patent space is in regards to how they are proposing to develop the powertrain used to couple the electric motor without having to develop a completely new from for an electric specific model. It's definitely different than what we've seen so far from Alta, STARK etc as they clearly designed a frame around the powertrain package. This approach allows Suzuki to re-purpose the RMZ frame through a unique powertrain design.  

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Richy
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6/6/2024 8:21am Edited Date/Time 6/6/2024 9:03am
GrapeApe wrote:
I don't understand what they are trying to protect with this patent. It's just an electric motor bolted to an existing RMZ frame and swing arm...

I don't understand what they are trying to protect with this patent. It's just an electric motor bolted to an existing RMZ frame and swing arm. Not much "development" happening.

mxtech1 wrote:
Did you read the article?   It clearly states the patent space is in regards to how they are proposing to develop the powertrain used to...

Did you read the article?

 

It clearly states the patent space is in regards to how they are proposing to develop the powertrain used to couple the electric motor without having to develop a completely new from for an electric specific model. It's definitely different than what we've seen so far from Alta, STARK etc as they clearly designed a frame around the powertrain package. This approach allows Suzuki to re-purpose the RMZ frame through a unique powertrain design.  

You're both saying the same thing?

The question remains how would that take a long time or be worthy of a patent?

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1
6/6/2024 8:29am

Kick start E-Bike. No BNG. Interesting

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Falcon
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6/6/2024 8:36am

If true, this all lines up very neatly with my belief that Suzuki is letting their RM-Z stagnate because they have other plans for motocross. 

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Beagle
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6/6/2024 8:41am
Falcon wrote:

If true, this all lines up very neatly with my belief that Suzuki is letting their RM-Z stagnate because they have other plans for motocross. 

Honestly they've given up all major championships one after the other, be it road bikes or dirt bikes, their bike lineup isn't so fresh either...

I'm pretty sure they have other plans. Not sure it they involve bikes though.

That being said that'd be cool to see them come back and invest more in their motorcycle range. Just maybe don't hold your breath waiting for it.

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GrapeApe
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6/6/2024 8:42am Edited Date/Time 6/6/2024 11:29am
GrapeApe wrote:
I don't understand what they are trying to protect with this patent. It's just an electric motor bolted to an existing RMZ frame and swing arm...

I don't understand what they are trying to protect with this patent. It's just an electric motor bolted to an existing RMZ frame and swing arm. Not much "development" happening.

mxtech1 wrote:
Did you read the article?   It clearly states the patent space is in regards to how they are proposing to develop the powertrain used to...

Did you read the article?

 

It clearly states the patent space is in regards to how they are proposing to develop the powertrain used to couple the electric motor without having to develop a completely new from for an electric specific model. It's definitely different than what we've seen so far from Alta, STARK etc as they clearly designed a frame around the powertrain package. This approach allows Suzuki to re-purpose the RMZ frame through a unique powertrain design.  

Those are a lot of words to say they bolted an electric motor to the existing RMZ frame. That is not a novel technology or innovation, it's a way to save R&D time and money.

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6/6/2024 11:33am
GrapeApe wrote:
I don't understand what they are trying to protect with this patent. It's just an electric motor bolted to an existing RMZ frame and swing arm...

I don't understand what they are trying to protect with this patent. It's just an electric motor bolted to an existing RMZ frame and swing arm. Not much "development" happening.

mxtech1 wrote:
Did you read the article?   It clearly states the patent space is in regards to how they are proposing to develop the powertrain used to...

Did you read the article?

 

It clearly states the patent space is in regards to how they are proposing to develop the powertrain used to couple the electric motor without having to develop a completely new from for an electric specific model. It's definitely different than what we've seen so far from Alta, STARK etc as they clearly designed a frame around the powertrain package. This approach allows Suzuki to re-purpose the RMZ frame through a unique powertrain design.  

GrapeApe wrote:
Those are a lot of words to say they bolted an electric motor to the existing RMZ frame. That is not a novel technology or innovation...

Those are a lot of words to say they bolted an electric motor to the existing RMZ frame. That is not a novel technology or innovation, it's a way to save R&D time and money.

Maybe they're afraid of a different company(Chinese/Indian) using a suzuki frame, putting an electric motor and calling it their own. I think patents only last about 15 years and their technology must be coming up on that? Potentially road blocking the competition until they're ready. I've done 0 research. 

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Falcon
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6/6/2024 11:38am
Falcon wrote:

If true, this all lines up very neatly with my belief that Suzuki is letting their RM-Z stagnate because they have other plans for motocross. 

Beagle wrote:
Honestly they've given up all major championships one after the other, be it road bikes or dirt bikes, their bike lineup isn't so fresh either... I'm...

Honestly they've given up all major championships one after the other, be it road bikes or dirt bikes, their bike lineup isn't so fresh either...

I'm pretty sure they have other plans. Not sure it they involve bikes though.

That being said that'd be cool to see them come back and invest more in their motorcycle range. Just maybe don't hold your breath waiting for it.

You're probably right. I don't think they are giving up on motorcycles, but I don't know what they're waiting for. (Then again, I couldn't figure out the Japanese side even when I worked there.) I'm definitely not holding my breath. 

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OwenJakes
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sebree, KY US
6/6/2024 11:39am
mxtech1 wrote:
Did you read the article?   It clearly states the patent space is in regards to how they are proposing to develop the powertrain used to...

Did you read the article?

 

It clearly states the patent space is in regards to how they are proposing to develop the powertrain used to couple the electric motor without having to develop a completely new from for an electric specific model. It's definitely different than what we've seen so far from Alta, STARK etc as they clearly designed a frame around the powertrain package. This approach allows Suzuki to re-purpose the RMZ frame through a unique powertrain design.  

GrapeApe wrote:
Those are a lot of words to say they bolted an electric motor to the existing RMZ frame. That is not a novel technology or innovation...

Those are a lot of words to say they bolted an electric motor to the existing RMZ frame. That is not a novel technology or innovation, it's a way to save R&D time and money.

Maybe they're afraid of a different company(Chinese/Indian) using a suzuki frame, putting an electric motor and calling it their own. I think patents only last about...

Maybe they're afraid of a different company(Chinese/Indian) using a suzuki frame, putting an electric motor and calling it their own. I think patents only last about 15 years and their technology must be coming up on that? Potentially road blocking the competition until they're ready. I've done 0 research. 

current frame was developed in 2018 so patents maybe 2017. So, i do not think they are approaching 15 years..

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6/7/2024 11:15am

I've got a current generation RMZ sitting here that I would love to buy the parts to retrofit an electric powertrain.

It would probably be a bit expensive to do with OEM stuff.  I wonder if any of the big brands will ever offer something like a electric conversion kit for their gas bikes?  Maybe someday I'll do my own conversion. I think it would be fun. Not many RM-E's out there. 

Suzuki had the first production 450 with EFI.  They have been adventurous with being earlier to use inverted forks and then going back to standard for a few years. 

At this point I think I might be less surprised to see an RM-E come out than a new RMZ450.  I'm glad they are working on one. It gives some hope that Suzuki still wants to make MX bikes in the near future. 

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Village Idiot
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6/7/2024 11:57am
dkurtd wrote:
I believe the OEM that wins the electric bike wars will be the one that figures out how to make it weigh the least.  Nobody wants...

I believe the OEM that wins the electric bike wars will be the one that figures out how to make it weigh the least.  Nobody wants a 260lb dirt bike (Stark Varg weighs 263 and Alta MXR at 267lb).

Stark Varg - How much does it weigh? - YouTube

 

You obviously aren't aware that heavy is the new light.

Look at the new 2025 models that are proud of their weight gain (no doubt had "Baby Got Back" playing at the new bike intro day).

Not sure what they were thinking back in these days -

image-20240607145703-1

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devotid
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6/7/2024 12:19pm

I would leave the kick starter on it but make it into a lever to remove the battery. haha

8
6/7/2024 1:20pm
Silas444 wrote:
Cycle World seems to be the best at sniffing out E-bike patent info, which is the best way to know what's going on behind the scenes...

Cycle World seems to be the best at sniffing out E-bike patent info, which is the best way to know what's going on behind the scenes, I think. They've had a few pics of the patent drawings on Yamaha's E-bike too. That bike, in the drawings anyway, is based on their YZ85. At the risk of repeating myself one too many times, I'll say once more that I think the 85cc equivalent "playbike" sector is the market most likely to explode, because it would be so easy to take a couple acres or even a large back yard and make a track suitable for them. 

Honda's CRF150R has hardly had any changes at all in well over a decade, nor have so many other OEM bikes in the 85 class, so a "revolution" would certainly make sense there. 2025 might be one helluva fascinating year, at least in terms of seeing what the future will hold. If one of them (or Stark) makes what I'm hoping they will, I will be speaking loudly with MY wallet, I'll say that.

I got to ride a Varg in my backyard trails SXS track a couple weeks ago. And I have not ridden a MX bike for almost 20 years. I felt comfortable almost right away. Jumped some small jumps, and it was easy to ride on the super slow tight MTB single track sections. If I did not have my past injuries I would own one right now!  They were supposed to come back again so I was waiting to get more footage to put a video together of it. The mount I used was rattling and sounded like chain slap. And was louder than the bike. I rode for 15 minutes and Nobody knew I was riding. I'm still thinking about getting one. 

 A customer of mine that is friends with a lot of people in the industry,( shop owners ,AMA officials ,etc.)  was telling me that they heard Stark was working on a bike that would be called the pup.  Pup or cub in Swedish is Valp.I wonder if they will continue with the names like that?  It would make sense for them to build a bike in that class. I did not ask  them who they heard it from. I figured that it is speculation by somebody . But it really makes sense since as of right now there is nothing in that segment. And it could be so many different bikes all in one like You and I  have said before. 

 

1
6/7/2024 1:32pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2024 6:47pm
GrapeApe wrote:
I don't understand what they are trying to protect with this patent. It's just an electric motor bolted to an existing RMZ frame and swing arm...

I don't understand what they are trying to protect with this patent. It's just an electric motor bolted to an existing RMZ frame and swing arm. Not much "development" happening.

The Cycle World article referenced in the post says that this patent specifically covers the physical configuration of the gear reduction, which is stacked center-wards on the bike of the motor output shaft.

 

 

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Falcon
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6/7/2024 3:05pm
Silas444 wrote:
Cycle World seems to be the best at sniffing out E-bike patent info, which is the best way to know what's going on behind the scenes...

Cycle World seems to be the best at sniffing out E-bike patent info, which is the best way to know what's going on behind the scenes, I think. They've had a few pics of the patent drawings on Yamaha's E-bike too. That bike, in the drawings anyway, is based on their YZ85. At the risk of repeating myself one too many times, I'll say once more that I think the 85cc equivalent "playbike" sector is the market most likely to explode, because it would be so easy to take a couple acres or even a large back yard and make a track suitable for them. 

Honda's CRF150R has hardly had any changes at all in well over a decade, nor have so many other OEM bikes in the 85 class, so a "revolution" would certainly make sense there. 2025 might be one helluva fascinating year, at least in terms of seeing what the future will hold. If one of them (or Stark) makes what I'm hoping they will, I will be speaking loudly with MY wallet, I'll say that.

I got to ride a Varg in my backyard trails SXS track a couple weeks ago. And I have not ridden a MX bike for almost...

I got to ride a Varg in my backyard trails SXS track a couple weeks ago. And I have not ridden a MX bike for almost 20 years. I felt comfortable almost right away. Jumped some small jumps, and it was easy to ride on the super slow tight MTB single track sections. If I did not have my past injuries I would own one right now!  They were supposed to come back again so I was waiting to get more footage to put a video together of it. The mount I used was rattling and sounded like chain slap. And was louder than the bike. I rode for 15 minutes and Nobody knew I was riding. I'm still thinking about getting one. 

 A customer of mine that is friends with a lot of people in the industry,( shop owners ,AMA officials ,etc.)  was telling me that they heard Stark was working on a bike that would be called the pup.  Pup or cub in Swedish is Valp.I wonder if they will continue with the names like that?  It would make sense for them to build a bike in that class. I did not ask  them who they heard it from. I figured that it is speculation by somebody . But it really makes sense since as of right now there is nothing in that segment. And it could be so many different bikes all in one like You and I  have said before. 

 

KTM already has the 50cc equivalent... a 65 equivalent and/or an 85 equivalent are the next logical steps. Someone's going to do it. 

I'm also excited (as it seems you are,) about the possibility of de-tuned electric playbikes. I think those are a no-brainer, except for use by the "rides all day" kid. Gasoline seems superior for that aspect, at least for now. 

4
6/7/2024 3:56pm
Silas444 wrote:
Cycle World seems to be the best at sniffing out E-bike patent info, which is the best way to know what's going on behind the scenes...

Cycle World seems to be the best at sniffing out E-bike patent info, which is the best way to know what's going on behind the scenes, I think. They've had a few pics of the patent drawings on Yamaha's E-bike too. That bike, in the drawings anyway, is based on their YZ85. At the risk of repeating myself one too many times, I'll say once more that I think the 85cc equivalent "playbike" sector is the market most likely to explode, because it would be so easy to take a couple acres or even a large back yard and make a track suitable for them. 

Honda's CRF150R has hardly had any changes at all in well over a decade, nor have so many other OEM bikes in the 85 class, so a "revolution" would certainly make sense there. 2025 might be one helluva fascinating year, at least in terms of seeing what the future will hold. If one of them (or Stark) makes what I'm hoping they will, I will be speaking loudly with MY wallet, I'll say that.

I got to ride a Varg in my backyard trails SXS track a couple weeks ago. And I have not ridden a MX bike for almost...

I got to ride a Varg in my backyard trails SXS track a couple weeks ago. And I have not ridden a MX bike for almost 20 years. I felt comfortable almost right away. Jumped some small jumps, and it was easy to ride on the super slow tight MTB single track sections. If I did not have my past injuries I would own one right now!  They were supposed to come back again so I was waiting to get more footage to put a video together of it. The mount I used was rattling and sounded like chain slap. And was louder than the bike. I rode for 15 minutes and Nobody knew I was riding. I'm still thinking about getting one. 

 A customer of mine that is friends with a lot of people in the industry,( shop owners ,AMA officials ,etc.)  was telling me that they heard Stark was working on a bike that would be called the pup.  Pup or cub in Swedish is Valp.I wonder if they will continue with the names like that?  It would make sense for them to build a bike in that class. I did not ask  them who they heard it from. I figured that it is speculation by somebody . But it really makes sense since as of right now there is nothing in that segment. And it could be so many different bikes all in one like You and I  have said before. 

 

Falcon wrote:
KTM already has the 50cc equivalent... a 65 equivalent and/or an 85 equivalent are the next logical steps. Someone's going to do it.  I'm also excited...

KTM already has the 50cc equivalent... a 65 equivalent and/or an 85 equivalent are the next logical steps. Someone's going to do it. 

I'm also excited (as it seems you are,) about the possibility of de-tuned electric playbikes. I think those are a no-brainer, except for use by the "rides all day" kid. Gasoline seems superior for that aspect, at least for now. 

 I am very excited about them!  the adjustability of the power and relatively compact motors could really open up what can be done as far as designing a chassis. As batteries get smaller and lighter, things could be very interesting.

 

Magoofan
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6/7/2024 4:08pm

I'd say it's going to be funny when this comes to pass....but it's not. 

 

image-20240607160713-1

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OldTech
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6/7/2024 5:39pm

I would rather buy a new RM85L

4DAIVIPAI2K5
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6/7/2024 7:49pm
Silas444 wrote:
Cycle World seems to be the best at sniffing out E-bike patent info, which is the best way to know what's going on behind the scenes...

Cycle World seems to be the best at sniffing out E-bike patent info, which is the best way to know what's going on behind the scenes, I think. They've had a few pics of the patent drawings on Yamaha's E-bike too. That bike, in the drawings anyway, is based on their YZ85. At the risk of repeating myself one too many times, I'll say once more that I think the 85cc equivalent "playbike" sector is the market most likely to explode, because it would be so easy to take a couple acres or even a large back yard and make a track suitable for them. 

Honda's CRF150R has hardly had any changes at all in well over a decade, nor have so many other OEM bikes in the 85 class, so a "revolution" would certainly make sense there. 2025 might be one helluva fascinating year, at least in terms of seeing what the future will hold. If one of them (or Stark) makes what I'm hoping they will, I will be speaking loudly with MY wallet, I'll say that.

I got to ride a Varg in my backyard trails SXS track a couple weeks ago. And I have not ridden a MX bike for almost...

I got to ride a Varg in my backyard trails SXS track a couple weeks ago. And I have not ridden a MX bike for almost 20 years. I felt comfortable almost right away. Jumped some small jumps, and it was easy to ride on the super slow tight MTB single track sections. If I did not have my past injuries I would own one right now!  They were supposed to come back again so I was waiting to get more footage to put a video together of it. The mount I used was rattling and sounded like chain slap. And was louder than the bike. I rode for 15 minutes and Nobody knew I was riding. I'm still thinking about getting one. 

 A customer of mine that is friends with a lot of people in the industry,( shop owners ,AMA officials ,etc.)  was telling me that they heard Stark was working on a bike that would be called the pup.  Pup or cub in Swedish is Valp.I wonder if they will continue with the names like that?  It would make sense for them to build a bike in that class. I did not ask  them who they heard it from. I figured that it is speculation by somebody . But it really makes sense since as of right now there is nothing in that segment. And it could be so many different bikes all in one like You and I  have said before. 

 

Falcon wrote:
KTM already has the 50cc equivalent... a 65 equivalent and/or an 85 equivalent are the next logical steps. Someone's going to do it.  I'm also excited...

KTM already has the 50cc equivalent... a 65 equivalent and/or an 85 equivalent are the next logical steps. Someone's going to do it. 

I'm also excited (as it seems you are,) about the possibility of de-tuned electric playbikes. I think those are a no-brainer, except for use by the "rides all day" kid. Gasoline seems superior for that aspect, at least for now. 

Cobra made a electric 65.

 

They said it is a one off for the lynx boy.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C51amiUvimu/?igsh=aXZtcmhocTR0cWcx

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