Tomac Fitness?

4/21/2024 8:57pm
tomlopez wrote:
To me, it is pretty clear that Eli isn't at his 100% prime fitness level that we saw from him 2017-2020 & 2022. Historically, he's always...

To me, it is pretty clear that Eli isn't at his 100% prime fitness level that we saw from him 2017-2020 & 2022. Historically, he's always been able to match, if not better, his best times during the later stages of the race. In several full-length main events this season, he's slowed down pretty significantly around the halfway point. The only race that truly looked like old Eli was Arlington... he was charging harder than anyone else in the field until the final lap.

I think he was getting really tired, more than ever because he was going so fast in the beginning to keep away from jett that it took too much energy from him to be able to hang with jett in the second half of the race.

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4/21/2024 8:58pm
I think fans are taking Eli’s performance this year for granted and are being a bit too critical. That is a testament to what people expect...

I think fans are taking Eli’s performance this year for granted and are being a bit too critical. That is a testament to what people expect from Eli, which is a positive takeaway.

Speaking as a former elite level endurance athlete, after a 6 month injury layoff it would have taken me 1yr minimum post layoff to regain my losses. This is a realistic rule of thumb at any age under say 40yrs old. Eli would need until next SX season to be in the shape he was pre injury. The human body builds very slow. Oxygen and heart rate capacity increases are slow to come back. It’s up to Eli if he wants to climb that mountain again.

Thanks for giving that type of insight, If he does some outdoors and all three smx rounds, does that help him get his speed back for next supercross season or does that hurt him?

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dv12.com
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4/21/2024 9:05pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2024 9:09pm
kpiper wrote:
Not saying Eli isn't in good shape...but it appears he is not in Tomac 'beast mode' shape. He was flying for about half the race and...

Not saying Eli isn't in good shape...but it appears he is not in Tomac 'beast mode' shape. He was flying for about half the race and commented, 'I have to do better in the 2nd half of the race.'

So guess he is still not there yet...or maybe he won't ever be? Kind of makes me think he is not planning to do the Nationals. It is for sure much harder to be in great shape at 31 compared to 20.

I really think he's very fit. Watch his Dallas main event. My opinion is that his riding style is not sustainable. He's trying to compensate his tiny lack of speed compare to Jett by being overly aggressive & twisting the throttle. His first few laps in the heat and the main are insanely aggressive kinda like how he would ride a 125 for a few laps to have fun with. No one who has ever lived can last a 20 minute SX moto riding like this, not even the goat. We've seen him smoother and using his momentum in the past and being more efficient. It looks like he's trying hard to win & close the gap with Jett but I don't think he's doing it the proper way to get the maximum potential out of himself.

Also, I think his very soft forks take a lot of energy from his upper body...

Just my 2 cents...

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studworx
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4/21/2024 9:07pm
studworx wrote:

Or 6 months off the bike from a fully ruptured achilles maybe… smh stop acting like nothing happened and he just lost a step

captmoto wrote:

Sometimes that's how that step gets lost.

Well… yeah. That’s exactly what I said. “Stop acting like nothing happened and he just lost a step”. 
 

He’s a step behind and it’s due to the injury. If he comes back next year, I think he’ll be back to form. Look how good he is this year with the circumstances. That injury is not a small one. It affects day to day life, training, riding, etc. 

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The Shop

4/21/2024 9:09pm
kpiper wrote:
Not saying Eli isn't in good shape...but it appears he is not in Tomac 'beast mode' shape. He was flying for about half the race and...

Not saying Eli isn't in good shape...but it appears he is not in Tomac 'beast mode' shape. He was flying for about half the race and commented, 'I have to do better in the 2nd half of the race.'

So guess he is still not there yet...or maybe he won't ever be? Kind of makes me think he is not planning to do the Nationals. It is for sure much harder to be in great shape at 31 compared to 20.

dv12.com wrote:
I really think he's very fit. Watch his Dallas main event. My opinion is that his riding style is not sustainable. He's trying to compensate his...

I really think he's very fit. Watch his Dallas main event. My opinion is that his riding style is not sustainable. He's trying to compensate his tiny lack of speed compare to Jett by being overly aggressive & twisting the throttle. His first few laps in the heat and the main are insanely aggressive kinda like how he would ride a 125 for a few laps to have fun with. No one who has ever lived can last a 20 minute SX moto riding like this, not even the goat. We've seen him smoother and using his momentum in the past and being more efficient. It looks like he's trying hard to win & close the gap with Jett but I don't think he's doing it the proper way to get the maximum potential out of himself.

Also, I think his very soft forks take a lot of energy from his upper body...

Just my 2 cents...

Thanks for your insight DV. I will have to study this main and watch races in the past were he was smoother and more efficient. Do you know what races he has been more efficient in that I can watch on youtube? Thanks for the english version of you podcast man.

mb60
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4/21/2024 9:16pm

The guy is 30 racing a 20 year old. He would have won hands down last night if not for Jett . What do fans not understand about prodigy racers. RC , James RV to name a few. 

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4/21/2024 10:50pm
Thanks for giving that type of insight, If he does some outdoors and all three smx rounds, does that help him get his speed back for...

Thanks for giving that type of insight, If he does some outdoors and all three smx rounds, does that help him get his speed back for next supercross season or does that hurt him?

Coming back too hard without building up slowly can lead to burn out. 50/50 on whether outdoor hurts or improves his results. However, if he does a lighter load over the summer and gets extremely fit/healthy I think we could see something special for ‘25 SX. But, does he want it that bad at this stage? He’s accomplished so much already.

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4/21/2024 11:31pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2024 11:32pm
Thanks for giving that type of insight, If he does some outdoors and all three smx rounds, does that help him get his speed back for...

Thanks for giving that type of insight, If he does some outdoors and all three smx rounds, does that help him get his speed back for next supercross season or does that hurt him?

Coming back too hard without building up slowly can lead to burn out. 50/50 on whether outdoor hurts or improves his results. However, if he does...

Coming back too hard without building up slowly can lead to burn out. 50/50 on whether outdoor hurts or improves his results. However, if he does a lighter load over the summer and gets extremely fit/healthy I think we could see something special for ‘25 SX. But, does he want it that bad at this stage? He’s accomplished so much already.

I think he wants to prove to himself and everyone else that he can battle and beat Jett straight up. I want to see beastmode, even if its for a few races. i want to see Jett's body language when eli is riding that 450 like its a 125. I think we are in for something special this summer and next supercross season. Also he wants redemption from what happened last season, I think he wants to win one more supercross championship before he hangs up the boots.

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Tumic
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4/21/2024 11:44pm

This is a prime excample why Deegan is trying to smooth out his riding style now.

You can’t beat the best by being worse at something. You guys talk about fitness but nobody beside DV talk about how much energy Tomac waste on the bike, and he always has.

The difference is that now we have the most perfect rider ever on a bike up on top and Tomac’s style won’t cut it anymore.

 

Haiden is like a little Tomac on the bike and they know now that if he want to be a winner in the 450 class within a couple of years he need to clean up his riding. Even if RC think that’s wrong…

 

Like someone else said, remove Jett from last race and the talk in here would be ”BEAST MODE IS BACK!” Etc…

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Kiernan mx
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4/22/2024 12:00am
Tumic wrote:
This is a prime excample why Deegan is trying to smooth out his riding style now. You can’t beat the best by being worse at something...

This is a prime excample why Deegan is trying to smooth out his riding style now.

You can’t beat the best by being worse at something. You guys talk about fitness but nobody beside DV talk about how much energy Tomac waste on the bike, and he always has.

The difference is that now we have the most perfect rider ever on a bike up on top and Tomac’s style won’t cut it anymore.

 

Haiden is like a little Tomac on the bike and they know now that if he want to be a winner in the 450 class within a couple of years he need to clean up his riding. Even if RC think that’s wrong…

 

Like someone else said, remove Jett from last race and the talk in here would be ”BEAST MODE IS BACK!” Etc…

Exactly 👌👌👌

Chris_Buehler
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4/22/2024 7:01am
mb60 wrote:
The guy is 30 racing a 20 year old. He would have won hands down last night if not for Jett . What do fans not...

The guy is 30 racing a 20 year old. He would have won hands down last night if not for Jett . What do fans not understand about prodigy racers. RC , James RV to name a few. 

Right. Take Jett out of the equation and he wins that race Saturday by 7-8 seconds over Coop and we're all saying same ole Eli. What percentage does everyone think he's off fitness wise? And if he's at 100% does he then win? Jett is just younger and faster. I really love to know if he's doing outdoors. I see so many people talk so confidently that he's definitely doing them. 

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4/22/2024 7:41am

Eli and Kenny were hauling those opening laps and gapping Jett. Then the Ole Suzuki had to fail just like that '97 turd MC rode... Kenny was pretty much a blocker for Tomac. If he didn't crash I easily see Kenny holding off Jett until there's 5 mins left. And by then it would've been too late to catch Tomac. Jett was gifted the pass for the lead during a yellow flag. I still say that shouldn't be allowed.

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jpred
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4/22/2024 7:54am

Was Jett gifted the 7 second gap too?  He was passing Tomac regardless of the yellow flag.

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ATKpilot99
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4/22/2024 7:59am
HonDawg17 wrote:
Eli and Kenny were hauling those opening laps and gapping Jett. Then the Ole Suzuki had to fail just like that '97 turd MC rode... Kenny...

Eli and Kenny were hauling those opening laps and gapping Jett. Then the Ole Suzuki had to fail just like that '97 turd MC rode... Kenny was pretty much a blocker for Tomac. If he didn't crash I easily see Kenny holding off Jett until there's 5 mins left. And by then it would've been too late to catch Tomac. Jett was gifted the pass for the lead during a yellow flag. I still say that shouldn't be allowed.

What color is the sky in your world ?

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4/22/2024 8:01am
jpred wrote:

Was Jett gifted the 7 second gap too?  He was passing Tomac regardless of the yellow flag.

He could have pushed that gap to 15 or 20 seconds over Tomac too probably but started cruising when it got to 7-8 . 

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NotCore
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4/22/2024 8:03am

I thinks its Jett's pace is just superior to the field right now.  He passes easily once in position.  Tomac just read the tea leaves, not sure its a fitness issue right now, but a pace/risk issue.

4/22/2024 8:48am
jpred wrote:

Was Jett gifted the 7 second gap too?  He was passing Tomac regardless of the yellow flag.

How many times have you seen the faster guy catch the leader, but have no way to pass him once he gets there? A hell of a lot. Its happened to sexton quite a bit. Even last year it happened maybe 2-3 times. He was gifted the pass for the lead and got a gap instantly and Tomac couldn't latch on after that. He lost the carrot out front. Jett got to see all of Tomac's lines after Roczen went down. An actual pass for the lead never happened...

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twotwosix
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4/22/2024 8:50am Edited Date/Time 4/22/2024 8:51am
MxAddic wrote:

His lack of fitness has been handicapping him since the season opener.

I think those of you saying this are crazy.

 

Eli is in fantastic shape and always has been. He's not Webb or Reed where they put on lbs each winter and then always get into far better shape as the season progresses. I think the beginning of the season was the old pre-yamaha Eli again. Super good, but not great. Hot and cold.  You have to be great if you want to beat Jett. The speed level is higher in 2024 than it was in 2023. We want to act like Eli is goated like RC and MC and he is a legend, his stats are amazing, but the truth of the matter is that Eli's bad days have always been far worse than RC or MC's and during his Kawi days he missed out on MULTIPLE championships by not being good enough on his off days. I saw some of the old hot and cold kawi-Eli early on this season, especially when he was dealing with the ankle injury. (It's understandable considering the big injury he's coming back from in record time). But, to say Eli lost Nashville due to fitness is just simply not true. 

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4/22/2024 8:53am
jpred wrote:

Was Jett gifted the 7 second gap too?  He was passing Tomac regardless of the yellow flag.

HonDawg17 wrote:
How many times have you seen the faster guy catch the leader, but have no way to pass him once he gets there? A hell of...

How many times have you seen the faster guy catch the leader, but have no way to pass him once he gets there? A hell of a lot. Its happened to sexton quite a bit. Even last year it happened maybe 2-3 times. He was gifted the pass for the lead and got a gap instantly and Tomac couldn't latch on after that. He lost the carrot out front. Jett got to see all of Tomac's lines after Roczen went down. An actual pass for the lead never happened...

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soggy
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4/22/2024 8:54am
Thanks for giving that type of insight, If he does some outdoors and all three smx rounds, does that help him get his speed back for...

Thanks for giving that type of insight, If he does some outdoors and all three smx rounds, does that help him get his speed back for next supercross season or does that hurt him?

Coming back too hard without building up slowly can lead to burn out. 50/50 on whether outdoor hurts or improves his results. However, if he does...

Coming back too hard without building up slowly can lead to burn out. 50/50 on whether outdoor hurts or improves his results. However, if he does a lighter load over the summer and gets extremely fit/healthy I think we could see something special for ‘25 SX. But, does he want it that bad at this stage? He’s accomplished so much already.

I think he wants to prove to himself and everyone else that he can battle and beat Jett straight up. I want to see beastmode, even...

I think he wants to prove to himself and everyone else that he can battle and beat Jett straight up. I want to see beastmode, even if its for a few races. i want to see Jett's body language when eli is riding that 450 like its a 125. I think we are in for something special this summer and next supercross season. Also he wants redemption from what happened last season, I think he wants to win one more supercross championship before he hangs up the boots.

Beast mode won’t be a problem for Jett. Eli and sexton went all out in Outdoors 2022. They were so close in speed and Jett dog walked sexton the entire outdoor series last year. 

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lumpy790
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4/22/2024 8:58am

Fitness is not an issue for ET but his experience might stop him from the risk of going over the comfort zone.

Chris_Buehler
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4/22/2024 9:00am
jpred wrote:

Was Jett gifted the 7 second gap too?  He was passing Tomac regardless of the yellow flag.

HonDawg17 wrote:
How many times have you seen the faster guy catch the leader, but have no way to pass him once he gets there? A hell of...

How many times have you seen the faster guy catch the leader, but have no way to pass him once he gets there? A hell of a lot. Its happened to sexton quite a bit. Even last year it happened maybe 2-3 times. He was gifted the pass for the lead and got a gap instantly and Tomac couldn't latch on after that. He lost the carrot out front. Jett got to see all of Tomac's lines after Roczen went down. An actual pass for the lead never happened...

I've lost count how many times Jett has passed Eli this season. Saturday was going to be the night Eli held him off, I'm sure though. 

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Chris_Buehler
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Coming back too hard without building up slowly can lead to burn out. 50/50 on whether outdoor hurts or improves his results. However, if he does...

Coming back too hard without building up slowly can lead to burn out. 50/50 on whether outdoor hurts or improves his results. However, if he does a lighter load over the summer and gets extremely fit/healthy I think we could see something special for ‘25 SX. But, does he want it that bad at this stage? He’s accomplished so much already.

I think he wants to prove to himself and everyone else that he can battle and beat Jett straight up. I want to see beastmode, even...

I think he wants to prove to himself and everyone else that he can battle and beat Jett straight up. I want to see beastmode, even if its for a few races. i want to see Jett's body language when eli is riding that 450 like its a 125. I think we are in for something special this summer and next supercross season. Also he wants redemption from what happened last season, I think he wants to win one more supercross championship before he hangs up the boots.

soggy wrote:
Beast mode won’t be a problem for Jett. Eli and sexton went all out in Outdoors 2022. They were so close in speed and Jett dog...

Beast mode won’t be a problem for Jett. Eli and sexton went all out in Outdoors 2022. They were so close in speed and Jett dog walked sexton the entire outdoor series last year. 

I don't know how anyone watching sx thinks mx is going to be any different. In case they've forgotten, Jett is even better outdoors. It's probably a pipe dream but I'm holding out hope Sexton can step up

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gt757
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4/22/2024 12:01pm

I believe he did the same thing last year, he was leading that race on a fast pace then the track went away and started to slow down and got caught by Chase

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Sidewinder 1
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4/22/2024 1:01pm
westeast wrote:
I'd guess it's more just been a combo of not ever having that bike fully dialed in, being away from racing for 7 months and being...

I'd guess it's more just been a combo of not ever having that bike fully dialed in, being away from racing for 7 months and being unwilling to hang it out that last fraction of a percent.  Jett certainly is and it almost cost him a few times last night.  No matter what, I'm stoked he's out there.  As a Tomac fan the first few laps were awesome.

“unwilling to hang it out that last fraction of a percent” 

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cable
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4/22/2024 2:16pm

Noticed this last year as well.  Training by yourself may not be the best for results.  He’s lost that fire/intensity and rightfully slow at 30 yrs old and 25yrs of racing.   I’m a scream at the tv tomac fan.  Lol. 

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kpiper
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4/22/2024 2:59pm

DV is right that Tomac uses a lot of energy the way he rides. But that is not new. Beast mode is that way. Eli said, 'I have to do better in the 2nd half of the race' admitting that he slowed the pace. It could have been risk factor but I think it was he got tired.

Yes, he got tired riding 'all out'...in the past he was able to do that though. Maybe it is age. But I think it is the long period of time not racing due to the injury. Only Eli and his Dad know for sure though.

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kpiper
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4/22/2024 3:01pm
lumpy790 wrote:

Fitness is not an issue for ET but his experience might stop him from the risk of going over the comfort zone.

How do you know fitness is not an issue for ET right now? Tomac's own comments seem to say otherwise. Just because he used to be the 'fittest' guy out there does not mean he is now. 

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early
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4/22/2024 3:15pm

I'd say his fitness is fine, its those 50 second laps Jett reeled off in the middle of the main that hurt him.

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4/22/2024 3:49pm Edited Date/Time 4/22/2024 3:50pm
cable wrote:
Noticed this last year as well.  Training by yourself may not be the best for results.  He’s lost that fire/intensity and rightfully slow at 30 yrs...

Noticed this last year as well.  Training by yourself may not be the best for results.  He’s lost that fire/intensity and rightfully slow at 30 yrs old and 25yrs of racing.   I’m a scream at the tv tomac fan.  Lol. 

I tend to raise my voice at the tv too, I think having a strong passion for this sport and ADHD play a part in that.

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