Savatgy speaks on “the situation”

11/29/2023 10:24pm

What is he able to do for Triumph then? Obviously he could test the bike but if he isn't going to ride the 250 in the 450 class then well he just not be competing at all?

 

For the record I say let him race. Like somebody else said, there's only two that this impacts and it would never be an issue again. Also, considering he hasn't been dominant in the class in previous years, I don't think it's that big of an issue. I personally would like to see him in the mix considering how boring some of the races can get as the season progresses.

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smee113
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11/30/2023 12:15am

Isn't there a rule about riders finishing top 15 in 450SX points not being able to move down for several years? Wouldn't that apply to Savatgy?

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Goon645
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11/30/2023 2:51am

You're surprised the organization that denied the enforcement of a rule at an amateur event due to pressure from a manufacture balked under the pressure of a manufacture again to arbitrarily enforce a rule that makes no sense???? No ways...

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11/30/2023 4:02am
smee113 wrote:

Isn't there a rule about riders finishing top 15 in 450SX points not being able to move down for several years? Wouldn't that apply to Savatgy?

The rule applies for 2 years, he finished 10th in 450SX in 2021, so this rule doesn't stop him.

image-20231130230205-1

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The Shop

Mx391
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11/30/2023 4:22am

LetICPrace

SonofThor32
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11/30/2023 4:36am
cameron96 wrote:
90% of fans want to see Joey race 99% want to see a Triumph race   math is simple.  The racing will be better.  let him...

90% of fans want to see Joey race

99% want to see a Triumph race  

math is simple.  The racing will be better. 

let him race!

Triumph will be racing, without Joey

Here is the thing I do not get..  The AMA is pulling a douche move in a gray area scenario, that is a clear problem, and the AMA does not have many moto purist fans, problem #1.  Problem #2, you have a new factory MX team being assembled..  big money, and a whole lot of knowledgeable people around the whole deal, from factory riders, to agents, etc.  How is it not one of those people ever stopped before cracking out the pens for his contract to even stop and think about this?  Did they assume?  Did they contact the AMA for certainty?  I know we will never know, but I am baffled none of them (as professionals of the sport) appear to have stopped to think about it.

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64smoker
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11/30/2023 4:39am

It's  better for the sport for a talent like Joey to be racing , no disrespect to privateers but people aren't turning on the tv to see who's in 18th 

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64smoker
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11/30/2023 4:44am
cameron96 wrote:
90% of fans want to see Joey race 99% want to see a Triumph race   math is simple.  The racing will be better.  let him...

90% of fans want to see Joey race

99% want to see a Triumph race  

math is simple.  The racing will be better. 

let him race!

Triumph will be racing, without Joey

Here is the thing I do not get..  The AMA is pulling a douche move in a gray area scenario, that is a clear problem, and...

Here is the thing I do not get..  The AMA is pulling a douche move in a gray area scenario, that is a clear problem, and the AMA does not have many moto purist fans, problem #1.  Problem #2, you have a new factory MX team being assembled..  big money, and a whole lot of knowledgeable people around the whole deal, from factory riders, to agents, etc.  How is it not one of those people ever stopped before cracking out the pens for his contract to even stop and think about this?  Did they assume?  Did they contact the AMA for certainty?  I know we will never know, but I am baffled none of them (as professionals of the sport) appear to have stopped to think about it.

On the flip side you'd think the ama would be encouraging and helping someone with that talent on a new factory team as it grows the sport there governing and supercross as a whole , like I said above its a better sport with Joey involved 

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11/30/2023 4:48am
cameron96 wrote:
90% of fans want to see Joey race 99% want to see a Triumph race   math is simple.  The racing will be better.  let him...

90% of fans want to see Joey race

99% want to see a Triumph race  

math is simple.  The racing will be better. 

let him race!

Triumph will be racing, without Joey

Here is the thing I do not get..  The AMA is pulling a douche move in a gray area scenario, that is a clear problem, and...

Here is the thing I do not get..  The AMA is pulling a douche move in a gray area scenario, that is a clear problem, and the AMA does not have many moto purist fans, problem #1.  Problem #2, you have a new factory MX team being assembled..  big money, and a whole lot of knowledgeable people around the whole deal, from factory riders, to agents, etc.  How is it not one of those people ever stopped before cracking out the pens for his contract to even stop and think about this?  Did they assume?  Did they contact the AMA for certainty?  I know we will never know, but I am baffled none of them (as professionals of the sport) appear to have stopped to think about it.

The pointing out rule was removed...

image-20231130234403-1

But the rule about returning to the 250SX class after pointing out hasn't!

image-20231130234708-2

 

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Johnny Ringo
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11/30/2023 4:53am

Question for the “lawyers” here. If I break a law and go to jail, and that law is later changed, do I automatically get out of jail? I’m pretty sure the answer is no, as whatever I did was still illegal at the time I did it?
 

Joey pointed out of the class under the rules at the time. Were the rules dumb? Sure.

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Spoonguy
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11/30/2023 4:54am

Would be awful to see 18-year-old rookies race against somebody with as much experience as Savatgy, McElrath, Forkner, or J Mart. Wait a second....

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Zycki11
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11/30/2023 4:59am
cameron96 wrote:
90% of fans want to see Joey race 99% want to see a Triumph race   math is simple.  The racing will be better.  let him...

90% of fans want to see Joey race

99% want to see a Triumph race  

math is simple.  The racing will be better. 

let him race!

Triumph will be racing, without Joey

Here is the thing I do not get..  The AMA is pulling a douche move in a gray area scenario, that is a clear problem, and...

Here is the thing I do not get..  The AMA is pulling a douche move in a gray area scenario, that is a clear problem, and the AMA does not have many moto purist fans, problem #1.  Problem #2, you have a new factory MX team being assembled..  big money, and a whole lot of knowledgeable people around the whole deal, from factory riders, to agents, etc.  How is it not one of those people ever stopped before cracking out the pens for his contract to even stop and think about this?  Did they assume?  Did they contact the AMA for certainty?  I know we will never know, but I am baffled none of them (as professionals of the sport) appear to have stopped to think about it.

They weighed the options with the rule and signed Joey anywho.  If he can't race 250sx he will be on the bike shaking it down and getting quality test time for SX and also the outdoors. Then come May he is ready for outdoors and follow it up with 450 SX the following year.  

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11/30/2023 5:02am
Question for the “lawyers” here. If I break a law and go to jail, and that law is later changed, do I automatically get out of...

Question for the “lawyers” here. If I break a law and go to jail, and that law is later changed, do I automatically get out of jail? I’m pretty sure the answer is no, as whatever I did was still illegal at the time I did it?
 

Joey pointed out of the class under the rules at the time. Were the rules dumb? Sure.

If you are in jail you should be released, if you are in prison you shouldn't!

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Gravel
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11/30/2023 6:38am
Sully wrote:

That's fixable by doing what Pop said...beat him. 

So we should change the rules to let a factory rider that has made hundreds of thousands of dollars in this sport drop down and take...

So we should change the rules to let a factory rider that has made hundreds of thousands of dollars in this sport drop down and take money out of the pockets of the guys in their vans 3 months behind on rent just trying to make a dollar in the regional class. Fuck them privateers, am I right? 

Sully wrote:
They don't need to change the rule, they already did. Now they're just being selective about who it applies to. @Gravel do you think these riders...

They don't need to change the rule, they already did. Now they're just being selective about who it applies to.

@Gravel do you think these riders & mechanics are going to do roughly twice the amount of races for the same amount of money?

Sully, I assume all the riders and mechanics are currently full time employees, they just don’t go to all the races. I’m not aware of any shared (one wrench for two riders) mechanics but I could totally be wrong about that.. Whatever the rider or mechanic pay rate is, it could change, that’s between management and the employees, I’d expect a line of guys looking for a raise if they suddenly have to work more races but I’d also expect them to get raises that’d be less than double what they were paid before.. They’re already on the team, send them to all the races just like they do with the 450 team..

All of that would get worked out by the teams if the AMA decides to make a change. And it’s all irrelevant to me, I’m just a 50 year fan of all things moto, and I think the current regional champ thing is too complicated and dilutes the talent pool. Every time I see a runaway winner on the West Coast, and a runaway winner on the East Coast, I want to see them racing each other, week after week. 

And let Savatgy ride wherever he wants. The AMA should have shown some f/n backbone and simply made a decision that was fair for all involved. 
 

Crutcher
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11/30/2023 7:27am

I have riders that would have to race against Joey. I wasn’t contacted about the situation but….I vote him to be eligible. 
 

hope that helps

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disbanded
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11/30/2023 7:34am
Question for the “lawyers” here. If I break a law and go to jail, and that law is later changed, do I automatically get out of...

Question for the “lawyers” here. If I break a law and go to jail, and that law is later changed, do I automatically get out of jail? I’m pretty sure the answer is no, as whatever I did was still illegal at the time I did it?
 

Joey pointed out of the class under the rules at the time. Were the rules dumb? Sure.

They pardoned lots of people in Colorado when weed became legal.

11/30/2023 7:47am
Question for the “lawyers” here. If I break a law and go to jail, and that law is later changed, do I automatically get out of...

Question for the “lawyers” here. If I break a law and go to jail, and that law is later changed, do I automatically get out of jail? I’m pretty sure the answer is no, as whatever I did was still illegal at the time I did it?
 

Joey pointed out of the class under the rules at the time. Were the rules dumb? Sure.

It's not automatic, but you can file with the court and get out of jail. Was done en mass when CA legalized Mary Jane

Jeremy A.K.
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11/30/2023 8:10am

There's one guaranteed way to get in. If he were to transition there is no possible way they can deny entry.

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FreshTopEnd
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11/30/2023 8:18am
Here is the thing I do not get..  The AMA is pulling a douche move in a gray area scenario, that is a clear problem, and...

Here is the thing I do not get..  The AMA is pulling a douche move in a gray area scenario, that is a clear problem, and the AMA does not have many moto purist fans, problem #1.  Problem #2, you have a new factory MX team being assembled..  big money, and a whole lot of knowledgeable people around the whole deal, from factory riders, to agents, etc.  How is it not one of those people ever stopped before cracking out the pens for his contract to even stop and think about this?  Did they assume?  Did they contact the AMA for certainty?  I know we will never know, but I am baffled none of them (as professionals of the sport) appear to have stopped to think about it.

Here's what I don't get:  why teams with a lot on the line don't sort things out early on to resolve issues like this.  This is an area where teams too often get lost unless they have someone smart on rules details.

I also think it's dumb for a sanctioning body to hold this position as to a small number of guys when it has decided it doesn't need to protect up and coming riders from experienced racers who can't make a better living in the 450 class.

I also think it's dumb for the sanctioning body to forget that motocross and super cross are less sports and more vehicles for selling motorcycles, and that the OEMs more than any other party subsidize this sport, at least maybe for as long as it helps them sell motorcycles.

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MX Guy
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11/30/2023 8:26am
Boomslang wrote:
This is Joey's job, this is how he earns a living. A pro rider's window of opportunity to make money is very short, therefore they should...

This is Joey's job, this is how he earns a living. A pro rider's window of opportunity to make money is very short, therefore they should be allowed to race which ever class that suits their situation best.

Really a shit decision from up top. I hope they wake up.

Everybody is so willing to grab at the AMA’s neck with inconsistencies regarding rules. Then something like this comes up and the pitch forks are out. Fans of the sport need to pick a side. Should the AMA enforce rules or shouldn’t they?

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FreshTopEnd
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11/30/2023 8:33am Edited Date/Time 11/30/2023 8:36am
Question for the “lawyers” here. If I break a law and go to jail, and that law is later changed, do I automatically get out of...

Question for the “lawyers” here. If I break a law and go to jail, and that law is later changed, do I automatically get out of jail? I’m pretty sure the answer is no, as whatever I did was still illegal at the time I did it?
 

Joey pointed out of the class under the rules at the time. Were the rules dumb? Sure.

I don't think criminal law issues are a good comparison given the Constitutional due process issues.  The stakes of incarceration and losing one's liberty are so much higher.  

The usual analysis with existing liability in civil matters (i.e., not criminal law) turns on the stage of the dispute and whether the language provides for retroactive application of the changed law.  Some law changes are retroactive, some are not.  But if the matter has gone to judgment and that judgment has not been disturbed before the change in law, then usually the judgment holds.

In sports regulation (a quasi area of private law), as here, I think it really depends on the language of the rule change.  That's when this adjustment should have been made, but maybe they did not anticipate someone who was barred from dropping down when the rule was changed would want to.  

The status here is, by analogy, where your property is zoned and you want a variance.  Usually your neighbors who bought their lots not expecting that change in zoning in their neighborhood get a say, some input into the decision.  

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11/30/2023 10:34am
MX Guy wrote:
Everybody is so willing to grab at the AMA’s neck with inconsistencies regarding rules. Then something like this comes up and the pitch forks are out...

Everybody is so willing to grab at the AMA’s neck with inconsistencies regarding rules. Then something like this comes up and the pitch forks are out. Fans of the sport need to pick a side. Should the AMA enforce rules or shouldn’t they?

They should enforce relevant rules. If they see a conflict within the rules, they should make the common sense conclusion that THEY ARE NO LONGER PENALIZING riders for this situation.

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kxking
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11/30/2023 10:46am
MX Guy wrote:
Everybody is so willing to grab at the AMA’s neck with inconsistencies regarding rules. Then something like this comes up and the pitch forks are out...

Everybody is so willing to grab at the AMA’s neck with inconsistencies regarding rules. Then something like this comes up and the pitch forks are out. Fans of the sport need to pick a side. Should the AMA enforce rules or shouldn’t they?

ToolMaker wrote:
They should enforce relevant rules. If they see a conflict within the rules, they should make the common sense conclusion that THEY ARE NO LONGER PENALIZING...

They should enforce relevant rules. If they see a conflict within the rules, they should make the common sense conclusion that THEY ARE NO LONGER PENALIZING riders for this situation.

But they are!

The rule that says you can't drop back down if you have advanced through championships or points, is still in the book.

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MX Guy
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11/30/2023 10:51am
ToolMaker wrote:
They should enforce relevant rules. If they see a conflict within the rules, they should make the common sense conclusion that THEY ARE NO LONGER PENALIZING...

They should enforce relevant rules. If they see a conflict within the rules, they should make the common sense conclusion that THEY ARE NO LONGER PENALIZING riders for this situation.

Your opinion of what rules are relevant remains more irrelevant than any rule in which you opine about. 

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11/30/2023 11:58am
ToolMaker wrote:
They should enforce relevant rules. If they see a conflict within the rules, they should make the common sense conclusion that THEY ARE NO LONGER PENALIZING...

They should enforce relevant rules. If they see a conflict within the rules, they should make the common sense conclusion that THEY ARE NO LONGER PENALIZING riders for this situation.

MX Guy wrote:

Your opinion of what rules are relevant remains more irrelevant than any rule in which you opine about. 

Because I want to see the fastest guys on the start line? As opposed to 13 guys that are a lap down by the end of the race? Yea, that'll get people excited.

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Herr Lich
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11/30/2023 11:59am
Pop Shmoke wrote:
Lets be serious here, 99% of the time the riders who are staying in the class for a decade are not winning a championship and arent...

Lets be serious here, 99% of the time the riders who are staying in the class for a decade are not winning a championship and arent “blocking” any of the young guns from winning one. If they were that good they would have already won or got a 450 ride. Every once in a while a christain craig happens, but even then so what? James Stewart was wooping grown mens asses on a 125 at 16, the cream always rises to the top. This issue literally only affects 2 riders right now and then will never affect any riders ever again. There arent any other ppl grandfathered in under the old rule. Just let those 2 race and then its never an issue ever again.

Spot on Pop Shmoke. 

Herr Lich
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11/30/2023 12:01pm
Gravel wrote:
The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders. I don’t think it’d instantly cut...

The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders. I don’t think it’d instantly cut the rides by half, it’d just be a question of how many riders could a team support full time vs number of part time riders for the same pile of $.

And pro sports shouldn’t be a jobs program anyway. Should we have 3, 4, maybe 5 regional 250 champions? Then everyone could have a factory ride! I can hear it now: “I’m the upper Midwest national SX 250 national champion!

That’s kinda what an East or West coast regional championship looks like now.. it dilutes the meaning of a championship.. 

 

-MAVERICK- wrote:
"The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders." Okay, so why aren't the 450...

"The budgets would probably be the same as now, so it’d probably support close to the same number of riders."

Okay, so why aren't the 450 teams running 3-4 factory riders under their tents? 

 

Because the salaries for the factory 450 riders are much higher. 

RACING
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11/30/2023 12:05pm

The right moment to sell silly SAVE ATGY T-shirts.

 

RichieW13
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11/30/2023 12:13pm Edited Date/Time 11/30/2023 12:28pm
Would love to keep the 450 as the "premier class" and have some sort of age and championship limit. Just doesn't seem right guys coming into...

Would love to keep the 450 as the "premier class" and have some sort of age and championship limit. Just doesn't seem right guys coming into the class at 17 years old battling with guys 28+, nearly 10 years experience. 

Under current rules though he should be allowed back. 

Instead of East/West, the 250 class could be divided into Junior (up to 21 years old) and Senior (over 21 years old).  There would be no other rules about pointing out or championshipping out.  Each division would race 7 rounds plus 2 showdown rounds.

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bigk218
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11/30/2023 12:23pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:

I think it's ridiculous it's still a regional class with any restrictions.  

THIS.  It should be the same as outdoors where it holds the same rules as 450's.  They already get the same TV coverage and in some...

THIS.  It should be the same as outdoors where it holds the same rules as 450's.  They already get the same TV coverage and in some cases the racing is better.  make it 17 rounds and open for any pro to qualify.  Don't give the BS about job creation or privateers.  This is the highest level of racing in the world and the Teams would still hire the riders who produce results.  

Seriously I’ve never understood how all the same racers can point out of supercross but anything goes in MX.  There’s no consistency. How cool would it be to see a guy like Bam extend his career two years and drop down to race deegan.  We can have Marv race a 250 outdoors but when it come to sx nope….  We don’t want our guys to race WSX but the sport leaves all these dudes high and dry. Like it’s simple.  Whatever it takes to have all our racers line up, regardless of what class they’re in should be the thought process. I could go on for days 

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