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Important people are getting them first no matter when you secured yours. Sit there, shut up and wait peasant
I think what I don't get here, knowing traditional OEMs are building electric bikes right behind Stark, why is everyone here acting like Stark is the only one and the holy grail? Do folks not think Honda or KTM are not going to be taking notes for what Stark has done and improving on it for what they have in the works? That is all going to happen sooner than later. I just don't get dropping $12K+ not knowing what parts (availability) and service is actually going to be like, what the long-term plans are for the company and how truly viable they will be as a company (ask Alta owners).
Maybe just 'being first' means more than anything to some people (including money). I am as intrigued as the next guy, but I will wait for something from an OEM I know I can trust, and knowing I won't ever have to worry about service and parts long-term, and I won't have a 12K paper weight sitting in my garage that was cool for a spell.
KTM owners waiting on backordered parts while new bikes are shipping may want to talk to you.....
10-4.
I'm sure you realize how fast 70mph is off-road. I'd be tapped wide in 5th gear on my TC250 on pavement to even get close to that. Let alone carry that much speed off-road. That's truly professional level riding.
Then you have some out of nowhere forum pro-am claiming he hit 108mph or 70mph on "rough" off-road, going up-hill and the bike is still pulling. Nothing in that comment was factual.
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Will do a video especially for you, my Omega spec 701 rally build and my modified T7 both clock max just over 120 on the gps on the same track. It’s my driveway so I know the surface like the back of my hand and I like to go fast, slow technical stuff and I just fall over 🤪🤣👍👍
That’s separate GPS I use, I am one of the Beta testers and I gave up trusting the stark phone as soon as I did one lap round my own track 🤣 I have over 200 hrs on my bike !! And the ECU is registering just over 4 🤷🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Not got a dog in this fight. So just how long do you think the EOM’s are going to take to get a bike to market? I fully expect them to wait for batteries to develop to give a decent run time. I also expect them all to have a Stark soon if not already.
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" I also expect them all to have a Stark soon if not already"
I don't think any of the OEMs would learn anything they don't already know by looking at a Stark, as there doesn't appear to be any new ground breaking technology in them, if there was they could just look up the patent applications, no need to get a bike.
The big 4 Japanese manufacturers & KTM group have all had electric prototypes or even some production models for a few years now, but have probably concluded rightly or wrongly that the market isn't quite ready yet for electric with the current technology.
It is early days yet , and IF this stark does become very popular it won't take the big factories long to release there own electric bikes.
Somewhere buried in one of the Varg threads someone already refered to the diffusion of innovation theory, depending on your risk tolerance, skepticism and aversion to change, you'd fall into one of these 5 categories: innovator, early adopter, early majority, late majority, laggard.
Depending on your age when did you get your first microwave / VCR / DVD player / cellphone / smartphone ?
Or more to the point: aren't you curious to try a Stark Varg?
By definition, not everyone is an early adopter, and there's no problem with that.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_innovations
Now if you're risk averse you'll probably wait for one of the established OEMs to offer their own Varg-killer. Just know that you may be possibly waiting for more than a couple of years.
Let's take a look at the full size electric bikes by big OEMs and compare them with the Varg.
KTM Freeride E-XC
24 hp / 18 kW, 42 Nm, 111 kg, 13 000 €
swappable battery, 260 V, 3.9 kWh, 27 kg, 1h30 charging time
Stark Varg
80 hp / 60 kW, 938 Nm, 118 kg, 14 000 €
non swappable battery, 360 V, 6.5 kWh, 32 kg, 1h charging time
The only actual somewhat comparable electric dirt bike from a big OEM is the KTM Freeride although it may be unfair to KTM because the Freeride has been out for almost 10 years. But it also shows that in 10 years KTM has barely updated their first electric full size dirtbike. If they were able to offer 60 hp or 80 hp instead of 24 hp, for the same weight and same price, you bet they 'd do it.
In short the KTM Freeride costs as much as the 60 hp Varg, is a tiny bit lighter (7 kg) for 40% less battery capacity and about 3 times less power.
Kawasaki Z e-1
7 hp / 5 kW (12 hp / 9 kW for 15 s boost), 41 Nm, 135 kg, 8 000 €
2 swappable 50 V batteries, total 3 kWh, 23 kg, 3h45min charging time
Comparing Kawasaki first electric bike (an entry level road bike) with the Varg they are obviously not intended to compete head-to-head, serving different purpose for a different market. But this shows that right now these brands are in a different league from each other, the technology level displayed cannot be compared, right now Kawasaki are merely tipping their toes, taking baby steps in the electric world.
The Varg is almost twice more expensive than the Z e-1 but for this price you get twice the battery capacity packaged in a lighter bike with about 10 times more power.
I would love to compare with bikes closer to what the Varg is but that's the current state of full size electric bikes by big manufacturers. I believe this puts Stark's performance into perspective.
Now I don't know how high on the priority list are electric dirtbikes for Kawasaki, KTM and others. For instance in 2019 Honda had been showing an electric CRF prototype (based on the CRF250 and Mugen E.REX prototype) but no one has ever seen it moving a wheel and Honda never even released any specs.
Who knows if Honda or others are actually working on this? I'm curious to see what electric bikes the big OEMs will have to offer, no doubt that in time they will develop amazing bikes, but they have quite some catching up to do before they release a Varg killer, and Stark won't stand still.
I would be delighted to be wrong, bring it on Honda !
Honda (Mugen) bikes rode couple laps between Japan championship mains, maybe you could find it from youtube still. That was maybe 3? years ago they did look decent like Alta at time but nothing like Stark even test riders werent (allowed?) pushing fast pace.
I'm not so sure about that. The prototype we saw from Honda and Yamaha (which I believe was some sort of partnership with another company) was just an existing chassis from a gas bike, with an electric motor shoved in there. Stark at least appears to have designed the bike ground-up around the battery and motor. And it seems like so far the reviews claim that they nailed the handling and ergos. I think that is super impressive. I'm not saying the traditional brands can't do something similar but we don't know. The Stark seems way ahead of what we've seen so far from Honda, which was just a CRF450R with a different power source. For all we know, the Stark may have sent them back to the drawing board.
Thanks for that, I had no idea it had really spun wheels on a track !
Found a vid of the Honda from 2019.
Another vid I think is from 2021 Sugo round for japanese championship, the Mugen was running laps during lunch break.
Then apparently the Honda was still on display for some event at Suzuka in 2022.
https://fr.motocrossmag.be/index.php/2022/11/une-honda-cr-electrique-ap…
Honestly it's not very confidence-inspiring, Mugen unveiled their prototype in 2017, Honda proudly introduced its rebadged prototype to the world at the 2019 Tokyo motor show, presumably 6 years later they're still working on it... still no specs, no commercialization in sight, no racing...
You would have to think the OEMs are well into the eMX testing stage.
Perhaps Honda have done market research that shows that most customers still want ICE bikes ?
For the time being at least
It could be as simple as that ?
I certainly don't think the big OEMs would have any problems building an electric bike today as good as a Stark, I just think they don't believe the majority of customers want them yet.
They could be wrong about this, but it's too early to say either way.
Looking forward to this video.... fully built and geared for the desert KX500s can barely get 108mph on a dry lake bed.
You do understand the difference between KMH and MPH right?
Ok I'm trying to follow you here, so you're thinking KTM could easily build a Freeride E with three times more power and 70% more battery capacity for the same weight and price tag as the one they are selling right now?
And they chose not to because... the world is not ready for electric dirt bikes more powerful than 24 hp with more range?
HRC developed the CR electric in 2017/2018, they applied for 4 patents in Japan, in 2020 they applied for the same patents in the US...
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20200101833A1/en
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20200130498A1/en
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20200130515A1/en
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20200204043A1/en
The team that developed the bike, the inventors...
have been disbanded, team members have recently been listed in patents for other projects applied for by Honda.
If Honda follows historical form, they will apply for other patents in Japan before they release a production model.
Pit Row
Just the bare rolling chassis of the Varg is on another level compared to what is offered by other OEMs.
No way KTM will build a bigger bike than the Freeride...
https://www.rideapart.com/news/658137/ktm-ceo-pierer-electric-motorcycles/
Not until they receive their Stark Varg and can reverse engineer it!
I wouldn't be surprised if we see a Ducati e-mx bike before a Japanese one.
If I were another manufacturer I would 100%buy a varg and study it, since it seems to be a very competitive platform chassis and drive wise right out of the gate.
Mugan HOnda made a road race bike that averaged 121mph around the isle of mann (total time 18min 35 sec ), similar to a 650cc twins that are rumoured to be around 100hp, id be interested to see what a motard spec Stark would do around there,
the TT zero was only ever one lap, where most bikes do 2 laps before a refuel there,
Was the Mugen a development of Honda's RC-E concept?
Husky just released a PW50 electric version today. The big manufactures will release there versions if and when theyre ready.
LOL, 2.4hp, some real competition for the Varg's 80hp!
Please explain, I can't see anything "on another level" , unless you mean the- easy-puncture lightweight inner tubes
momus is that you?
I have been involved with this 'side project' from Yamaha.
Based on an excisting YZ frame, a (battery technology) startup company developed this electric bike:
https://www.emx-powertrain.com/
This project in already running for over 3 years, and I think it looks pretty cool.
But looking at the specs, the Varg is already outperforming and the EMX XF30 is not even on the market.
Yep fully understand the difference 👍 we don’t use kmh here in the UK and I use my GPS data logger for accuracy. Will do a video when I get a chance.
Cool, I did not know this one.
Seems like a nice bike but yeah, not released yet and already rendered obsolete by the Varg (the Varg is 3 kg heavier with 40% more battery and twice the power for 500€ less), that must be tough for them.
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