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Agreed. I can’t stand when a bike gets down voted based on stock grips. Like who’s buying a brand new 450 and not putting bars, grips, and pegs on it at a minimum?
I just hate the complaints about grips.
The Honda 250/450 doesn’t do great in the shootouts, but you can get the suspension dialed, a vortex, and run T4, for the same price as buying an Austrian bike, and you’re likely going to like it more than an Austrian bike.
Maybe if someone could pay the manufacturers to ship the bikes to the east coast or midwest, along with the support crews that are at the shootouts for technical assistance, it could happen.
Where do you get highway like comditions?
I like to read the shootouts. I think there is so good information to be had. With that said information needs to be checked against other tests etc and normalize in your mind. For instance, info I gleaned in the 23 250 shoot seemed accurate for the 23 CRF250R I bought. But I didn’t buy a Honda cause I thought it was the best for me. I bought it cause I couldn’t find a 23 Yamaha on a dealer floor. I think shootouts in this day and time are not the end all be all, but still good info and better than none at all.
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Shootouts exist to sell ads, writers get fed by capturing eyeballs.
Agreed. Reliability and comfort. If I feel confident and the bike won't give me headaches as it ages, I'm in.
Unfortunately you will never get shoot outs like that because it takes too long.
People like to shit on MXA but their shootouts usually come after everybody elses for a reason. They actually race their bikes with multiple riders. That should count for something as far as durability testing. Most of these bikes are pretty bulletproof though.
Has anybody ever created a business where you can go and test ride all the bikes in a single day? If I was looking to buy a bike, I'd love to have the chance to spend like $200 and get to ride all of the bikes I am considering buying.
Shootouts are just for entertainment, for me. But the best content lately has been Vital and Swap. Reason being, they give a very good breakdown of each rider and their impression on each bike, to the best of their abilities. I like that better than the actual rankings. I think that stuff can be helpful in deciding on what works best for you. Like how the Husky is a bit mellow and it hurts the shootouts results in most shootouts, but that might be perfect for many consumers (especially with how fast 450s are.)
MXA I hate to say but I think they are actually kind of bad. To me, I read it and watch the videos and even if it's Josh or whoever talking, it just sounds like they are repeating the same speak that Jodie has been saying forever. Almost like it's his opinion, at the end of the day. I never really hear opinions of the actually testers or see any real data. They just give their winners. And their results are usually quite a bit different from other media or even my own opinions. It's pretty hard to take them serious when they haven't given the YZ250F a win since '14 when it has won head and shoulders at every other media outlet (that's just 1 example.) Basically I think they pick and choose how to angle their winners and it is annoying.
Anyways, I think where you live, the terrain etc all plays a role. Also, some bikes like the Honda seem to be really on when you get the set-up right but then can be pretty off when you dont. And other bikes aren't as sensitive. So think of how many variables are just in that, for a consumer. Are you a set-it and forget it guy? Do you ride multiple tracks with different dirt, layouts etc or mainly ride at the same few spots. It would be very hard for a shootout to replicate that stuff for every person's situation.
Bingo!
I crunched the numbers once and it never really penciled out to be worth the time, unless parts were free and/or bikes were at dealer cost. But even after everything, it was questionable as a business.
From a stand point of testing bikes it would be amazing. Personally I can tell which bike I’m most comfortable on right away.
the best bet is doing a day with one of the MX vacation crews in So Cal that have a stable of different bikes.
What's nice about belonging to the Old Timers club we develop so much close friendship and camaraderie with each other over the yrs and when play days etc come along we get to test each other bikes and suspension set-ups etc. Heck I've ridden two strokes, four strokes about every brand in a single day. Bike breaks at a race there is always a bike to ride. best group of guys you could ever meet.
Michael tried that once and got accused of being on drugs by his peers
Fwiw, No shootouts from any main MX publication have ever included a full 250 shootout, with 2-strokes and 4-strokes.
Even so, I agree with the OP on the lap time test
Like a fitting for golf clubs. Not gonna lie, I have thought about this a lot. This would be an amazing business.
I think it is more than just “tuning to suit.”
The manufacturer gives you a product, usually built to a price point, that usually equals the base acceptable product that you will accept, to maximize their and the dealer’s profit.
An owner that wants something more will have to improve all aspects of the bikes performance, and then tune to their needs, at the owners expense.
I think it would be useful to know which bikes offer the best starting position to do that and what should be addressed on that bike either by improving immediately or by the biggest impact to performance.
Pit Row
Imo the biggest thing is how you like the weight balance of the bike . If you like a lighter front wheel more balanced bike . Or if you like a heavy front end feel . You can fix so much of everything else . But if u hate a quick steering heavy front wheel feel ,eg, Suzuki/honda it's very hard to fix it . You can change clamps , linkage and still not be happy. On the other hand if u love that feel . You might be better off on a Suzuki than the latest and greatest. It's easy fix power and suspension . Frame balance is the most important thing imo
Spot on
I wonder if it is a liability issue. Test a 2 stroke and swap to a 4 stroke. Make a mistake thinking the 4 stroke will track like a 2 stroke and… crash.
...until you have to remove the stock KX grips. For each hour spent, it loses a spot in the standings. It's the only way to get them to stop.
Lap time thing is BS. I feel the most comfy on a Honda or Suzuki. I feel like shit on a Yamaha. Never ridden a kawi..absolutely hate the KTMs. I really only listen to Keefer when it comes to bike testing. Not that I do anything to my bikes to begin with. I’ll be red til I die. But keefer seems like the most knowledgeable
Just referring to test I have seen in the past at milestone or possibly Pala where the track appeared to be really hard packed and smooth in comparison. Watching the Pala test from a few weeks back with Anderson made me think, what are they testing? The track I personally rode that weekend was much rougher. Just made me scratch my head a little??
Shootouts are subjective by nature... That's why in our mag/wesite in France, there are no rankings. We try our best to really give the proper and own feel of each bike, and then it's up to the readers to figure out what they want. Ranking the bikes is stupid, if you ask me. It'a a one (or two, let's say) day truth, by maybe five people with different styles, weight and so on. This year, French rider Romain Pape was there to help us, and you know what ? We did not agree on everything, far from that. Jus because he's a lot slimer than but taller than i am, and 10 seconds a lap faster. We need to give readers infos on what the bikes do good or bad, not telling them what to buy.
What about a shootout where all of the bikes are modded out to be the same price as the highest price stock bike
Husqvarna | MSRP $11,649 - no mods
KTM | MSRP $10,899 +$750 Mods
Gas Gas | MSRP $10,199 +$1,450 Mods
Honda | MSRP $9,999 +$1,650 Mods
Yamaha | MSRP $9,899 +$1,750 Mods
Kawasaki | MSRP $9,599 +$2,050 Mods
Suzuki | MSRP $8,999 +$2,650 Mods
Keefer was thinking about doing this.
I only care about bold new graphics.
Nowadays it’s not what the best bike is, it’s what’s best for you… maybe 1 tird in the punchbowl, but they’re all so good. And yeah throw mods in there, boom, new equation.
Also MXA goes to many tracks and they race these bikes. Jumping on a bike one day at one track doesn’t give the whole picture.
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