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Good Lord, this is getting tedious. Do you really think a potential buyer would have seen those hundred dollar down-payments as guaranteed sales and thus bought them on spec? You can't be that ( ), can you? I mean, you're a BUSINESSMAN, for Pete's sakes. To be clear: Stark took on Eicher as an investor, with Eicher giving them 50 mil to get a 10% stake. Stark didn't put that 50 mil in their pocket, they used it to build out their manufacturing capability; a necessity due to the overwhelming interest (interest, not guaranteed sales) the bike generated. Had Stark had any desire to be bought out, they could just as easily have offered Eicher a 51% share (on paper) and then had Eicher take that same 50 mil to build out the manufacturing side themselves while the Stark boys sipped Pina Coladas on a beach somewhere. None of this is complicated.
Further, the best thing that could happen to Stark would be for a large percentage of those initial orders NOT to turn into actual sales. If this happened, they could take those promised bikes and offer them to their growing dealer network instead, as they risk those entities becoming quite restless if they have to wait until mid-2024 to get their first bikes to sell.
Lastly, the first rule of business is that you create a plan for every way you can think of that will allow you to avoid failure, and no plan whatsoever for what you'll do if you experience over-the-top initial success - because irony. And this is exactly, precisely, what happened to Stark.
Again - none of this is complicated.
You're right 400 x 5000mAh cells would give 7.2kWh, most are only rated for 9.8A continuous discharge, say goodbye to 60hp, it would be 12hp continuous output!
Samsung's INR21700-50S does have 5000mAh capacity and is capable of 45A output, but it susceptible to temperature cutout at that current, it's continuous output is 25A, so 33hp continuous output.
Battery capacity and output current will keep improving.
I understand that Stark is providing dealerships with SOME bikes ahead of SOME customers.
Perhaps from cancelled orders from folks tired of waiting, facing budget woes, reading this thread or whatever.
It will be interesting in what happens in the next 90 days or so with orders, shipping, dealers and direct buy customers.
I am also interested in how things go when MXA get their hands on one, if they even choose to touch it.
Why would MXA not want to test/review it? The other media outlets did.
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I just see MXA as kind of flaky about E bikes; specifically Alta and Stark.
I enjoy the rag and I've been subscribed for years
I wouldn't doubt that the $100 deposit was a strategy to drum up a high number of pre-orders to use to secure financing, whether that was financing to get the company off the ground or, like some here are suggesting, to sell the whole venture for a big profit remains to be seen.
What we do know is that they have developed a bike that is a finished product and seems to deliver basically what they promised. The Stark Varg is not complete vaporware despite what some may think.
The truth is, since Alta closed up, there has been a hole in the market for a full size electric motocross bike. This market may be niche but it's there. If anyone has ever dreamed of starting their own motorcycle company to build dirtbikes, this is the logical place to go since you know you won't have to compete with the big Japanese brands for a while. Even if the bike isn't perfect it will suit the needs of many people. They arent selling tech that is fantasy like theranos.
Just curious as to why this is not in the correct section on Vital:
"Bring your extension cord. This is the place to chat about this small (but growing) segment."
Maybe because this is “moto-related” and it’s the top thread on the site right now.
"Stark, and support for the Varg, will be around for a very long time."
Bryan, I understand you're a believer, and you absolutely have that right. It's kind of touching, actually.
However, you have absoluely no way of knowing if your assertion is right -like so many things you wrote.
Is there no one here posting on this thread, not even ONE of you (besides me, that is) whose work gives them a profound sense of purpose? Whose work is something they'd continue to do even if they took away all the money and tortured you for doing it instead? Is there no one here whose work gives them a chance at making history?
If it did, then you'd understand, with exacting precision, what Anton Wass is doing with the Stark Varg and why he's doing it. And if you don't, then you never will. Every day when I rise out of bed, I probably look like just another aging shit-kicker, but I'm not. The dent I've been able to make in the history of the excruciatingly unforgiving industry I'm in gets a little bigger, and man oh man, what fun that is. It's why I haven't taken a vacation in 30 years, why I work late every night and at least part of every weekend, why I see wealth as merely a useful byproduct of what I do, and why I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, accept a buyout.
By their own admission, Stark's intention is to make the greatest dirt bike in history. They have no intention of playing nicely with the other kids in the OEM sandbox. THEY. WANT. A. WAR. This confounds you, I know - but it makes perfect sense to a guy like me.
Go back and look at the myriad postings I've made regarding Stark and the Varg. They go back years now. There's not ONE that doesn't still hold water. Can any of you say that? I know what is motivating this guy to do what he's doing, kiddies, BECAUSE I'VE LIVED IT.
The other recurring theme is a hypersimple consumer level understanding of product timelines and evolution. What releases today was planned 3 - 5 years ago, and what is being developed today releases in 2026+.
Also, people who are losing their minds about the Stark can't figure out that range is not fixed and will be exponentially different in 5 years.
BP
If cells are same weight what explains higher weight Stark told about?
Only because of dicks like me arguing with dicks like you.
Incorrect use of the word assertion my man. Brian is not forcing anything on you and he has every right to believe and share his opinion. What’s touching are the folks that dissect anything he says with such precision to disprove something that is coming and coming fast and may disrupt your little safe space.
This Same Company has made some Converted YZ85's that look great, Pretty much a bigger pit bike that even adults could race that's also good quality. A class for these would be epic.
Similar to Langtown but with electric!
If you know what Langtown was or Google Langtown Supercross!
I think if people look back to the way the Alta was developed and brought to market, that to me seemed more like a plan to develop a technology to sell than Stark. With Alta putting out renderings way before a working prototype was shown. I remember following it for years. And then just when they seemed to get going , they were working on selling to Harley. Going back and looking at the place that Alta had for building bikes, seems very different to what Stark has.
When I listened to the gypsy tales with Anton, I felt like he has a lot more that he wants to do. That can be done with Stark. If you listen to what his long term fantasy or goals were. To me it sounds like something that is being planned to be around for a longtime. It sounds like maybe at first they thought they may just pick up where Alta left off. I think he had said they were thinking that 5000 bikes would have been amazing. And then when they saw the interest was much more than they anticipated they scaled up. To me, they must believe that the Varg is everything they say it is. And are banking on that when people see that it really is that good, that those pre orders will translate to sales. Otherwise why build the much bigger factory than they had planned at first. To me it shows that they believe that when they deliver the Vargs that have been ordered that the interest will increase and demand will keep increasing as more myths are put to rest. I hope that Stark is around for a long time , I see many signs they will be. But who knows.
Anton also said he believes there is a market for #20K machines.
I agree as people will pay for performance and today, $20K isn't squat.
Pit Row
My idea of an electric bike:
Are you going to raise your pitchfork towards Triumph when they enter the market, as well, or is it just because the Varg is electric? Your logic would apply to literally any "new" manufacturer entering premiere motocross competition to compete against the current crop of motocross bikes.
I wish Triumph well, I've been a fan of them since Gene Romero and and have owned their bikes - but - their bike stands very little chance at making history, so there's a big difference there for me.
Bryan, take the high road. The responses from those who are hell-bent on discrediting Stark and yourself are petty and predictable. Your video is a first-person perspective of a new product, and you’re under no obligation to defend your opinion.
An Internet war of words produces no victors. Besides, you spent time on a MX track riding with Sebastian Tortelli. You already won.
"That's nice, Honey." Wow. I want to thank you, sincerely thank you, for finding way to illustrate so vividly, so unmistakably, what a colossal waste of my precious time this exercise in an online "discussion" has been for me.
A while back, someone posted a quick clip from the movie Tombstone of Curly Bill saying, "Well......... bye." Not exactly sure who it was that posted it, but whoever you are, if you'd be so kind as to re-post that on my behalf, I'd appreciate it.
Yup, look at the Mountain bike market. Like was said on Gypsy tales. SXS's do hold more than 1 person, so its a little different. But people regularly are buying 30K 2 seaters and putting 40% of the purchase price more into aftermarket stuff according to some dealer surveys.
Anton has said that the see the 450 Motocross bike the most difficult bike to make a competitive Electric option for. And that is why they wanted to START out with it. And offering play bikes, streetbikes, Dualsport, etc. after would be easier to do after proving themselves with the Varg. With streetbikes the weight would not be as big of an issue . Offering a simple commuter bike should be easy to do compared to what they are doing with the Varg.Of course they need to get the Vargs delivered first.
I am optimistic of Starks future, the only reason I have a thought that he would entertain selling is that he has sold his other companies he built. So will Stark allow him to be able to reach his ultimate goals? Or will it be another rung on his ladder to climb towards whatever his ultimate goal is?
💥💥💥 B A M ❗️💥💥💥
••• ONE HUNDRED % •••
It sounds like you've found a ladder just the right height to latch onto his grundle.
Hey there is a Supercross racing on TV in 10 minutes.
Let's all take a SX "Time Out" and reconvene tomorrow!
I'm sorry You feel that way, and have misinterpreted my post. It was not meant to praise him. I was outlining what he had said in the interview to setup my reasons for why I thought he may be open to selling at some point. I was wondering if his end goals would be bigger than Stark. And if Stark is a success was it just going to be a step towards something else. Meaning that he would sell. Or if he would stay interested in building the Stark brand longer than the others he has built.
Wondering if he has a grand objective bigger than what he has stated , or is moving the goal post as he goes. And that he will keep building bigger dreams until he fails SInce all of that could impact the lifespan of Stark and there has been posts pointing out reasons people think he was building to sell , or building toward legacy He had said he would not risk Stark to build the flying car. So would that mean he has a plan to start another company? or that he wants to build Stark big enough that it could handle the risk of developing the flying car without risking Starks Future? .
@theycallmeebryan - Saw a video where they are starting delivery. Is yours still scheduled for the end of April or May? Any new updates?
Only Stark would know.
I'd guess changes to battery cell packaging, electronics, larger fins on the sides of the battery case, is the case still magnesium or is the production case aluminum?
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