Stark Varg - First Customer Review

Zoom wrote:

Production has started, but its a trickle for now. The first few customer bikes will be likely air shipped. 

Goldmember wrote:

You know this how? An acquaintance of mine place his order the day they opened the book. The last time I spoke to him, 7 months...

You know this how?

An acquaintance of mine place his order the day they opened the book.

The last time I spoke to him, 7 months ago, Stark had advised that his order was scheduled for delivery in December 2023.

Zoom wrote:

There were almost 1000 ordered within the first 24 hours. More than likely your acquaintance is further down the list than the first few.

vdrsnk04 wrote:

Goldmember, semifreeguy, skull island. it’s crazy why they continue to destroy threads about Stark and electric Mx.  1. they don’t have one ordered. So deliveries etc...

Goldmember, semifreeguy, skull island. it’s crazy why they continue to destroy threads about Stark and electric Mx. 

1. they don’t have one ordered. So deliveries etc shouldn’t matter to them.

2. they only post opinions not facts, or complete different subjects.

3. They are anti electric in general. So why even talk in a pro electric thread.

 

I think they could and should make an anti Stark/electric mx thread to post in for themselves and quit ruining countless other threads. The people people making the threads want electric mx, so those guys need to make their own thread to discuss why they don’t want it.

SKULL ISLAND wrote:

Funny how you believe the point of a forum is talking only with people who think what you think -while never answering a single serious question...

Funny how you believe the point of a forum is talking only with people who think what you think -while never answering a single serious question asked.

Goldmember wrote:

How do you 'know'' production has started?  How do you 'know' 1000 were ordered?

 

Huevos wrote:

You think people want to willingly engage in conversation with people that are completely negative and pessimistic all the time for no reason?   Theres a small...

You think people want to willingly engage in conversation with people that are completely negative and pessimistic all the time for no reason?  

Theres a small group of you that love to talk shit on everything posted about Stark as if the company itself ripped you off of part ownership or something, and then a few of you just harass Bryan about everything he posts as if its the worst thing in the world if he's a company insider.  Most videos on bike reviews and intros are completely sponsored and controlled by the manufacturers themselves, but when it comes to an e-bike ya'll lose your damn minds.  Just chill. 

HonDawg17 wrote:

Clearly Triumph is a more popular future bike to be introduced to the sport of motocross. A day later post, but with nearly twice the views...

Clearly Triumph is a more popular future bike to be introduced to the sport of motocross. A day later post, but with nearly twice the views. Varg with nearly twice the replies, mainly the Varg boys talking back to the opposition..

 

Zoom wrote:

Definitely more interest in Stark. Your screen shot proves that. So does the fact that there are 18,000 pre-ordered. The Stark will change the industry while...

Definitely more interest in Stark. Your screen shot proves that. So does the fact that there are 18,000 pre-ordered. The Stark will change the industry while Triumph is a very similar version of what is already offered. 

HonDawg17 wrote:

Clearly Triumph is a more popular future bike to be introduced to the sport of motocross. A day later post, but with nearly twice the views...

Clearly Triumph is a more popular future bike to be introduced to the sport of motocross. A day later post, but with nearly twice the views. Varg with nearly twice the replies, mainly the Varg boys talking back to the opposition..

 

#434 wrote:

 Let’s see what he has to say. 

 Let’s see what he has to say. 

Sandusky26 wrote:

How come the guys that ride the quiet bikes feel the need to make the most noise about their bikes.

SKULL ISLAND wrote:

Well I try and have exchanges with naive zealots who never answer anything and worship St Anton of the divine electricity, so I guess anything's possible.

Well I try and have exchanges with naive zealots who never answer anything and worship St Anton of the divine electricity, so I guess anything's possible.

Sandusky26 wrote:

How come the guys that ride the quiet bikes feel the need to make the most noise about their bikes.

The real Sasquatch wrote:

Why are you so miserable that you have to come here and talk shit and do nothing to contribute to the threads? Why not start your...

Why are you so miserable that you have to come here and talk shit and do nothing to contribute to the threads? Why not start your own Why I hate the Varg thread? And post the dumb stuff in there, and try and not derail the other threads on Electric. 

Everytime you post , it brings more attention to the bike you hate/are afraid or/ or want and can not have. Bumping the thread back to the top of the main page, giving the Company more promotion. Getting the people who are excited about the bike for whatever reasons they are , to come and respond to your silly comments. And having more Pro Varg info put out by 3rd party's,  Doing more to help this thread and the Varg show up in Google searches. The more I think about it ,I think that You guys must work for Stark ,You must be a part of that secret propaganda division.    I really would like to see some legit reasons , with the proof you ask others to post, showing some downsides to the Varg and electric in general. Not just the same old , the battery will not last long enough and how will it be charged questions. If it 's range is not enough for you, do not buy one. If you can not figure out how to buy a generator and charge it, then do not buy one. 

 

For me, its not about Not using gas. So charging with a gas generator is not a problem.  Harbor Freight has an invertor style generator for $2500 or less depending on when you buy it, that puts out 67DB  about half as man DB as a 450 that passes sound check at a pro race. Each DB is 2 times as loud as the previous db. 67db is about the sound level of an average conversation. I have a Honda that is similar in sound, and You can put it 15 feet away and hardly notice its running. So the overall sound levels could be reduced dramatically with a fleet of HF generators.  I was chatting with a friend who is a Lineman and has made some of his own EV's and he said it would take about 20 or so average sized panels to put out the power needed to charge a Varg. But said it wouldn't matter anyway because you could pull the power you needed from the grid anyway.  So it sounds like about the average sized RV parking spot that you might take up at a race would be the amount of space needed to charge a single Varg off of 100% solar.  Someday we might throw a Youtube video together to have an Ebike episode. Sponsored by My love for the sport. 

 

Zoom wrote:

Production has started, but its a trickle for now. The first few customer bikes will be likely air shipped. 

Goldmember wrote:

More unsubstantiated Starker guff.  Now edited to spare feelies and acknowledge the 35 Kg cargo only limit. It's highly unlikely any Li-ion fueled bikes are being...

More unsubstantiated Starker guff.  Now edited to spare feelies and acknowledge the 35 Kg cargo only limit.

It's highly unlikely any Li-ion fueled bikes are being air freighted.

There is a 5 Kg per package limit- ie battery- with a maze of test requirements and paperwork before they will fly.  35Kg is cargo only air which is a lot less than the speculated weight of a partly metal encased 6.2 AH battery.

Zoom wrote:

Production has started, but its a trickle for now. The first few customer bikes will be likely air shipped. 

Goldmember wrote:

More unsubstantiated Starker guff.  Now edited to spare feelies and acknowledge the 35 Kg cargo only limit. It's highly unlikely any Li-ion fueled bikes are being...

More unsubstantiated Starker guff.  Now edited to spare feelies and acknowledge the 35 Kg cargo only limit.

It's highly unlikely any Li-ion fueled bikes are being air freighted.

There is a 5 Kg per package limit- ie battery- with a maze of test requirements and paperwork before they will fly.  35Kg is cargo only air which is a lot less than the speculated weight of a partly metal encased 6.2 AH battery.

theycallmeebryan wrote:

Someone asked me in another forum if i had tested out simulated flywheel settings. Honestly, I didn't really think about testing various flywheel settings but it...

Someone asked me in another forum if i had tested out simulated flywheel settings. Honestly, I didn't really think about testing various flywheel settings but it got me thinking. In the 2 ride days i really just wanted to feel out the bike and adjust power and engine braking to see how quickly i could find a comfortable "feel" in the bike. It took me only about 5-6 laps to figure out whether i liked more or less engine braking. Its such a rad experience going through that on a dirtbike. You feel like your own race team, testing and tweaking the bike for YOU. Show me a gas bike that does that! With electric, you can make rapid motor characteristic changes in order to get a feel you personally like. No longer do you have to adjust to a bike's powerplant, instead you tailor the powerplant how you feel most comfortable. Its game changing in our sport, frankly. It takes a LOT longer to test various power parts and make modifications to internal combustion engines. With electric, all you need is your thumbs and a couple seconds. And, best of all, your thumbs stay clean.

Once we get motocross bikes with 500wh/kg cells (double energy density of today), it will be an absolute no brainier for pretty much every dirtbike rider out there to own an electric bike. For me, who rides 95% motocross tracks, 250wh/kg cells are plenty enough for the bike to outlast my fitness level over the length of a moto. And every single one of my motos are so much fun. My Alta still to this day, 5 years later, puts a smile on my face.

theycallmeebryan wrote:

Someone asked me in another forum if i had tested out simulated flywheel settings. Honestly, I didn't really think about testing various flywheel settings but it...

Someone asked me in another forum if i had tested out simulated flywheel settings. Honestly, I didn't really think about testing various flywheel settings but it got me thinking. In the 2 ride days i really just wanted to feel out the bike and adjust power and engine braking to see how quickly i could find a comfortable "feel" in the bike. It took me only about 5-6 laps to figure out whether i liked more or less engine braking. Its such a rad experience going through that on a dirtbike. You feel like your own race team, testing and tweaking the bike for YOU. Show me a gas bike that does that! With electric, you can make rapid motor characteristic changes in order to get a feel you personally like. No longer do you have to adjust to a bike's powerplant, instead you tailor the powerplant how you feel most comfortable. Its game changing in our sport, frankly. It takes a LOT longer to test various power parts and make modifications to internal combustion engines. With electric, all you need is your thumbs and a couple seconds. And, best of all, your thumbs stay clean.

Once we get motocross bikes with 500wh/kg cells (double energy density of today), it will be an absolute no brainier for pretty much every dirtbike rider out there to own an electric bike. For me, who rides 95% motocross tracks, 250wh/kg cells are plenty enough for the bike to outlast my fitness level over the length of a moto. And every single one of my motos are so much fun. My Alta still to this day, 5 years later, puts a smile on my face.

sandtrack315 wrote:

Given that 500wh/kg batteries are just now being engineered and made but not mass produced, will be interesting to see how long it takes to get...

Given that 500wh/kg batteries are just now being engineered and made but not mass produced, will be interesting to see how long it takes to get into a dirt bike. I think you’re right that’s the breaking point. You could add 50 percent battery life to the bike, but decrease the weight, or just double the battery life. With those numbers, hard to see an ICE bike comparing. And batteries will continue to get denser… 

wwdiii wrote:

Simple question………anybody got one.

Titanium wrote:

Simple answer, watch the video for 8 minutes and find out.

Simple answer, watch the video for 8 minutes and find out.

HonDawg17 wrote:

I think the world of EV's is nothing more than a political money grab for the GOV to push higher priced products to collect more taxes...

I think the world of EV's is nothing more than a political money grab for the GOV to push higher priced products to collect more taxes. With that said..I launched myself into a giant rabbit hole to figure out how much more expensive and "green" the Stark is. Heres all the data I could research and come up with. Some numbers are based off Tesla production CO2, motor and battery prices. Then I reduced to percentage of how much smaller a dirtbike is than a car. 

Every negative number on this chart is a loss in that category from Stark's perspective.

Key points: (In Minnesota climate)

Stark is more expensive than any bike on the market, by far.

Stark could potentially cut CO2 emissions by 10lbs per ride day, theoretically.

Stark would have to be ridden for 300 days minimum, by my moto durations, just to break EVEN on emissions. Minnesota only gets 6 months of riding. So that's 3 summers, 3 years to break even.

Contingency money usually lasts 2 model years. So the first owner will sell before its even paid for itself in CO2 emissions.

The motor and battery swap are guaranteed to cost over half the price of the bike in the event of a failure.

TIME. The most valuable thing we have. The amount of time wasted at the track to charge this bike is insane. You can't get time back. Your ride days WILL BE SHORTER. No one will spend 10 hours at a practice track just to run 5 motos.

You CANNOT recycle a lithium battery.

You CAN recycle an entire gas bike.

You will most likely go thru more rear tires with a Stark because that's way more power than was intended for those tires. Knobs will be ripping off more often. $$$

Lithium mining is awful for the planet. Just look at the ridiculous size and void it creates.

Price just to get to the track ready to ride:

Stark; Bike + generator + full tank + charger = $15,215.75

YZ450f; Bike + fuel + gas can + oil = $9,999.40

Stark is $ 5,216.35 more expensive, just to get to the track.

 

HonDawg17 wrote:

I think the world of EV's is nothing more than a political money grab for the GOV to push higher priced products to collect more taxes...

I think the world of EV's is nothing more than a political money grab for the GOV to push higher priced products to collect more taxes. With that said..I launched myself into a giant rabbit hole to figure out how much more expensive and "green" the Stark is. Heres all the data I could research and come up with. Some numbers are based off Tesla production CO2, motor and battery prices. Then I reduced to percentage of how much smaller a dirtbike is than a car. 

Every negative number on this chart is a loss in that category from Stark's perspective.

Key points: (In Minnesota climate)

Stark is more expensive than any bike on the market, by far.

Stark could potentially cut CO2 emissions by 10lbs per ride day, theoretically.

Stark would have to be ridden for 300 days minimum, by my moto durations, just to break EVEN on emissions. Minnesota only gets 6 months of riding. So that's 3 summers, 3 years to break even.

Contingency money usually lasts 2 model years. So the first owner will sell before its even paid for itself in CO2 emissions.

The motor and battery swap are guaranteed to cost over half the price of the bike in the event of a failure.

TIME. The most valuable thing we have. The amount of time wasted at the track to charge this bike is insane. You can't get time back. Your ride days WILL BE SHORTER. No one will spend 10 hours at a practice track just to run 5 motos.

You CANNOT recycle a lithium battery.

You CAN recycle an entire gas bike.

You will most likely go thru more rear tires with a Stark because that's way more power than was intended for those tires. Knobs will be ripping off more often. $$$

Lithium mining is awful for the planet. Just look at the ridiculous size and void it creates.

Price just to get to the track ready to ride:

Stark; Bike + generator + full tank + charger = $15,215.75

YZ450f; Bike + fuel + gas can + oil = $9,999.40

Stark is $ 5,216.35 more expensive, just to get to the track.

 

HonDawg17 wrote:

I think the world of EV's is nothing more than a political money grab for the GOV to push higher priced products to collect more taxes...

I think the world of EV's is nothing more than a political money grab for the GOV to push higher priced products to collect more taxes. With that said..I launched myself into a giant rabbit hole to figure out how much more expensive and "green" the Stark is. Heres all the data I could research and come up with. Some numbers are based off Tesla production CO2, motor and battery prices. Then I reduced to percentage of how much smaller a dirtbike is than a car. 

Every negative number on this chart is a loss in that category from Stark's perspective.

Key points: (In Minnesota climate)

Stark is more expensive than any bike on the market, by far.

Stark could potentially cut CO2 emissions by 10lbs per ride day, theoretically.

Stark would have to be ridden for 300 days minimum, by my moto durations, just to break EVEN on emissions. Minnesota only gets 6 months of riding. So that's 3 summers, 3 years to break even.

Contingency money usually lasts 2 model years. So the first owner will sell before its even paid for itself in CO2 emissions.

The motor and battery swap are guaranteed to cost over half the price of the bike in the event of a failure.

TIME. The most valuable thing we have. The amount of time wasted at the track to charge this bike is insane. You can't get time back. Your ride days WILL BE SHORTER. No one will spend 10 hours at a practice track just to run 5 motos.

You CANNOT recycle a lithium battery.

You CAN recycle an entire gas bike.

You will most likely go thru more rear tires with a Stark because that's way more power than was intended for those tires. Knobs will be ripping off more often. $$$

Lithium mining is awful for the planet. Just look at the ridiculous size and void it creates.

Price just to get to the track ready to ride:

Stark; Bike + generator + full tank + charger = $15,215.75

YZ450f; Bike + fuel + gas can + oil = $9,999.40

Stark is $ 5,216.35 more expensive, just to get to the track.

 

davis224 wrote:

A couple things: I'll give you this, nobody knows for certain how reliable a production Varg is yet because nobody has one, but to factor in...

A couple things: I'll give you this, nobody knows for certain how reliable a production Varg is yet because nobody has one, but to factor in a motor swap is ridiculous IMO. You should be able to get thousands and thousands of hours on an electric motor, at which point the frame would be shot anyway.

Lithium for batteries is not a hole in the ground. Copper is, aluminum is, but not lithium. It's not environmentally perfect how they source it either, but if you're going to be against it, use real reasons.

sumdood wrote:

Electric dirt bikes are always going to be met with opposition as long as the gov't is telling us "By such and such a date you...

Electric dirt bikes are always going to be met with opposition as long as the gov't is telling us "By such and such a date you HAVE to ride these, or nothing at all"  For now they're being offered as an option, but the threat of them being the ONLY option is what puts people in the fuck electric bikes camp. (IMO) No one wants to be told what we can and can't buy, doesn't matter if they say we all have to ride electric bikes or KX500's.  When you take away peoples freedom to choose you're going to get pushback. It's not Starks fault, that bike looks awesome and fun, but I don't want it to be my only option. Sorry if this is just pointing out the obvious reason (to me) that the haters hate electric dirt bikes and they don't get the fair shake they deserve. It's not the bike, it's the threat of losing our freedom to choose.  Sorry for the useless post pointing out what everyone already knows anyway.