Death of the Full Floater (court docs)

nskerb
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Kelso, WA, USA
1/31/2022 9:33pm
Just ordered the book on Amazon because of this thread revival lol.
1
2/1/2022 1:39am Edited Date/Time 2/1/2022 1:40am
NOOOOOOO! Silly

Guess I'm going to have to read that book aren't I?
ktm 125
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GR
2/1/2022 3:08am
Also.... Suzuki stole the 2 stroke expansion chamber from CZ.

Read this book.... Stealing Speed by Mat Oxley. A very good read for any motorcycle enthusiast.
not cz but mz
and not actually stealing but buying from the man who stole it, the mz gp rider. not only did he stole the blueprints but also lost the 125 championship too in questionable reasons
MZ the bike company that made 2 strokes awesome
3

The Shop

PRM31
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2/1/2022 5:20am
I’d be curious who owns what patents for suspension design. In 1981, Suzuki came out with the Full Floater, Kawi the Uni Trak, Honda the Pro Link, and Yamaha continued with the Monocross. What a year for advancement. Easily the single biggest year of advancement in production Mx bikes.
I know the Full Floater was incredible, I didn’t ride a Pro Link until ‘83, but I didn’t think it was an improvement on the Full Floater, though no complaints either. Never rode a Uni Trak.
Fast forward 30 years, and every manufacturer uses a variation of the Pro Link Honda came out with in ‘81.
3
G-man
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2/1/2022 7:48pm
Yep Don Richardson and the Full Floater was way ahead of its time.

He went to Pasadena college in the next town of my Hometown Eagle Rock. I thought I remember something about it was a college project when he started the design on the Full Floater.

At one time or another I owned every one of the models 125, 250 and 465.
The 465 was the easiest open bike I ever rode. I put a pro circuit pipe on it and it really opened up its potential.
It had so much low and midrange grunt you could just float around on the track lofting the front wheel at will.



The 125 was quite the opposite it was a screamer and you could just hold it wide freaken open!
You could do no wrong on that bike, if you crashed it was entirely rider error.

The Full Floater design was the best rear suspension to come from any of the manufacturers.
Suzuki really fucked up when they stopped making it I believe their excuse was it was too expensive and the maintenance of it.
Or maybe they got tired of paying Don royalties hahahaLaughing

5
1
2/1/2022 8:06pm
The whole floating thing is given way too much credit. Its still bolted on.
1
11
Forty
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2/1/2022 8:21pm
The whole floating thing is given way too much credit. Its still bolted on.
jeez
1
Madmax31
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2/2/2022 5:27am
G-man wrote:
Yep Don Richardson and the Full Floater was way ahead of its time. He went to Pasadena college in the next town of my Hometown Eagle...
Yep Don Richardson and the Full Floater was way ahead of its time.

He went to Pasadena college in the next town of my Hometown Eagle Rock. I thought I remember something about it was a college project when he started the design on the Full Floater.

At one time or another I owned every one of the models 125, 250 and 465.
The 465 was the easiest open bike I ever rode. I put a pro circuit pipe on it and it really opened up its potential.
It had so much low and midrange grunt you could just float around on the track lofting the front wheel at will.



The 125 was quite the opposite it was a screamer and you could just hold it wide freaken open!
You could do no wrong on that bike, if you crashed it was entirely rider error.

The Full Floater design was the best rear suspension to come from any of the manufacturers.
Suzuki really fucked up when they stopped making it I believe their excuse was it was too expensive and the maintenance of it.
Or maybe they got tired of paying Don royalties hahahaLaughing

Is he still around moto at all? Anyone know anything about his life after the settlement? Definately doing to order the book.
1
Press516
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2/2/2022 6:13am
Younger guys that didn't experience the MASSIVE step forward in suspension don't understand why this is so significant. The 1980 Unitrak was good, but the rest of the bike sucked. The RM125X lopped seconds off of your lap time... But it wasn't just the suspension, that bike turned and it didn't take much motor work to make it rip. Too bad there had to be drama attached to it....


4
Bearuno
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AU
2/2/2022 7:33am
Also.... Suzuki stole the 2 stroke expansion chamber from CZ.

Read this book.... Stealing Speed by Mat Oxley. A very good read for any motorcycle enthusiast.
ktm 125 wrote:
not cz but mz and not actually stealing but buying from the man who stole it, the mz gp rider. not only did he stole the...
not cz but mz
and not actually stealing but buying from the man who stole it, the mz gp rider. not only did he stole the blueprints but also lost the 125 championship too in questionable reasons
MZ the bike company that made 2 strokes awesome
Stealing Speed, by Mat Oxley, certainly is a Great read.

Ernst Degner was the rider / engineer that it was about .

Taking Walter Kaadens 'secrets' to Suzuki / the Western World .

Degner got Suzuki's' 1st World Championships, in the 50cc class, in 1962, the year after he defected, and, by that defection, costing MZ (and himself) the 1961 125 World Championship.

He took Knowledge ( as I said, he was an Engineer himself, very involved with Kaadens projects) and Parts to Suzuki, then later, Yamaha. What he did was an Absolute Bastard Act, certainly, towards Kaaden and MZ . It got him, and his family (separately) out of Communist East Germany. But, he paid for the bastardry, with his 'suicide' by slitting his throat, many years after his defection, though that is thought by many to be a much delayed 'pay back' by certain nefarious individuals / departments.
Steve125
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2/2/2022 7:46am
G-man wrote:
Yep Don Richardson and the Full Floater was way ahead of its time. He went to Pasadena college in the next town of my Hometown Eagle...
Yep Don Richardson and the Full Floater was way ahead of its time.

He went to Pasadena college in the next town of my Hometown Eagle Rock. I thought I remember something about it was a college project when he started the design on the Full Floater.

At one time or another I owned every one of the models 125, 250 and 465.
The 465 was the easiest open bike I ever rode. I put a pro circuit pipe on it and it really opened up its potential.
It had so much low and midrange grunt you could just float around on the track lofting the front wheel at will.



The 125 was quite the opposite it was a screamer and you could just hold it wide freaken open!
You could do no wrong on that bike, if you crashed it was entirely rider error.

The Full Floater design was the best rear suspension to come from any of the manufacturers.
Suzuki really fucked up when they stopped making it I believe their excuse was it was too expensive and the maintenance of it.
Or maybe they got tired of paying Don royalties hahahaLaughing

Madmax31 wrote:
Is he still around moto at all? Anyone know anything about his life after the settlement? Definately doing to order the book.
He's currently building big power Pontiac Motors for customers.
ryanlester
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Orangevale, CA, USA
3/15/2023 12:23pm
G-man wrote:
Yep Don Richardson and the Full Floater was way ahead of its time. He went to Pasadena college in the next town of my Hometown Eagle...
Yep Don Richardson and the Full Floater was way ahead of its time.

He went to Pasadena college in the next town of my Hometown Eagle Rock. I thought I remember something about it was a college project when he started the design on the Full Floater.

At one time or another I owned every one of the models 125, 250 and 465.
The 465 was the easiest open bike I ever rode. I put a pro circuit pipe on it and it really opened up its potential.
It had so much low and midrange grunt you could just float around on the track lofting the front wheel at will.



The 125 was quite the opposite it was a screamer and you could just hold it wide freaken open!
You could do no wrong on that bike, if you crashed it was entirely rider error.

The Full Floater design was the best rear suspension to come from any of the manufacturers.
Suzuki really fucked up when they stopped making it I believe their excuse was it was too expensive and the maintenance of it.
Or maybe they got tired of paying Don royalties hahahaLaughing

Madmax31 wrote:
Is he still around moto at all? Anyone know anything about his life after the settlement? Definately doing to order the book.

He just did a podcast with Steve Matthes... 

http://pulpmx.com/podcast/guest-don-richardson/ 

7
Tim507
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Oregon City, OR, USA
3/15/2023 12:43pm
G-man wrote:
Yep Don Richardson and the Full Floater was way ahead of its time. He went to Pasadena college in the next town of my Hometown Eagle...
Yep Don Richardson and the Full Floater was way ahead of its time.

He went to Pasadena college in the next town of my Hometown Eagle Rock. I thought I remember something about it was a college project when he started the design on the Full Floater.

At one time or another I owned every one of the models 125, 250 and 465.
The 465 was the easiest open bike I ever rode. I put a pro circuit pipe on it and it really opened up its potential.
It had so much low and midrange grunt you could just float around on the track lofting the front wheel at will.



The 125 was quite the opposite it was a screamer and you could just hold it wide freaken open!
You could do no wrong on that bike, if you crashed it was entirely rider error.

The Full Floater design was the best rear suspension to come from any of the manufacturers.
Suzuki really fucked up when they stopped making it I believe their excuse was it was too expensive and the maintenance of it.
Or maybe they got tired of paying Don royalties hahahaLaughing

Madmax31 wrote:
Is he still around moto at all? Anyone know anything about his life after the settlement? Definately doing to order the book.
ryanlester wrote:

He just did a podcast with Steve Matthes... 

http://pulpmx.com/podcast/guest-don-richardson/ 

I met Don a few years ago in Vegas when I was there for SX. Don was working on fork mods for CZ's and he had some parts for me. Prior to that we were comminucating via phone and email.

He shared the whole story with me and what he was up to then. From what he indicated the "Royalties" were not a lot  write about.

 

1
boybuc
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Murrieta, CA, USA
3/15/2023 1:33pm

IMG 6845.PNG?VersionId=OXOW7BVp.EWyQPVmsBAIe1ZOhCV

 The 81 RM125 was so good

4
bigsal
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USA
3/15/2023 1:41pm

 I could do no wrong (125 pro) on the 1981 RM125X point it hold it wide open and start grabbing gears, a pure joy to ride. Doug Dubach made his repitation as a bad ass in So Cal racing full floater RM125's until the clean used ones dried up and factory Yamaha came calling.

KurtJ99
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USA
3/15/2023 1:44pm

I remember racing in the early 80s and the full floater (and Suzuki) was so head and tails better than everything else from 81-83 that I really can't draw a parallel to anything today. Perhaps the first YZ250F competing against 125's is close, but that was just superior in power not handling. 

1
FeetUp
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Santa Maria, CA, USA
3/15/2023 2:41pm

I’ve read the book and listened to Steve’s podcast…… Both of them were hard to get through, to much info spanning lots of years and many different people/businesses. However recommend both 👍

1
early
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3/15/2023 3:31pm

What a story, highly recommend listening to this, I'm going to buy his book.

2
TK40_FC
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Canton, OH, USA
3/15/2023 5:20pm

Don is an interesting guy who's got a very unique story and an equally unique engineering mind.  Enjoyed the podcast because its a story I was not familiar with.  Looking forward to reading the book.

 

2
DaveB771
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Minneapolis, MN, USA
3/15/2023 6:11pm
Press516 wrote:
Younger guys that didn't experience the MASSIVE step forward in suspension don't understand why this is so significant. The 1980 Unitrak was good, but the rest...
Younger guys that didn't experience the MASSIVE step forward in suspension don't understand why this is so significant. The 1980 Unitrak was good, but the rest of the bike sucked. The RM125X lopped seconds off of your lap time... But it wasn't just the suspension, that bike turned and it didn't take much motor work to make it rip. Too bad there had to be drama attached to it....


The rear suspension on the first Floater RM250 was magic. It could soak up anything, as long as you kept the front end off the ground.

1
pelted
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., USA
3/15/2023 6:52pm

Yeah, the floater was special. I had an '83 RM 250. Rear was magic. All else, not so much, but it was a lot of fun to ride.

3/15/2023 6:57pm
pelted wrote:
Yeah, the floater was special. I had an '83 RM 250. Rear was magic. All else, not so much, but it was a lot of fun...

Yeah, the floater was special. I had an '83 RM 250. Rear was magic. All else, not so much, but it was a lot of fun to ride.

Yeah it was a step backward from the 1982 go figure. 

1911
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3/15/2023 8:13pm
pelted wrote:
Yeah, the floater was special. I had an '83 RM 250. Rear was magic. All else, not so much, but it was a lot of fun...

Yeah, the floater was special. I had an '83 RM 250. Rear was magic. All else, not so much, but it was a lot of fun to ride.

Yeah it was a step backward from the 1982 go figure. 

I made a poor decision in 1983, I sold my 82 RM 250 for a 1983 Rm 250. I think the 83 had bigger forks and a better front brake. Unfortunately it had a detuned engine. 🤦‍♂️

 

olds cool
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3/15/2023 8:43pm

Had an ‘82 RM 250 with Fox Factory forks.  Such an awesome bike.  Wish I still had it for vintage racing.

Cancerman
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In Hell, FL, USA
3/15/2023 11:17pm
pelted wrote:
Yeah, the floater was special. I had an '83 RM 250. Rear was magic. All else, not so much, but it was a lot of fun...

Yeah, the floater was special. I had an '83 RM 250. Rear was magic. All else, not so much, but it was a lot of fun to ride.

Yeah it was a step backward from the 1982 go figure. 

1911 wrote:
I made a poor decision in 1983, I sold my 82 RM 250 for a 1983 Rm 250. I think the 83 had bigger forks and...

I made a poor decision in 1983, I sold my 82 RM 250 for a 1983 Rm 250. I think the 83 had bigger forks and a better front brake. Unfortunately it had a detuned engine. 🤦‍♂️

 

All you needed to do was put the 82 head on it and rejet it. Most guys knew this by mid 1983. MXA and Dirt Bike both did articles on it. Yeah, I know, "Back in my day...".

2
evomx244
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Morrow, OH, USA
3/16/2023 4:33am

Steve Matthes just did an interview with Don that drop this week-it's pretty interesting. 

endurox
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Garden City, ID, USA
3/16/2023 6:45am

Same type of thing with Specialized  bicycles stealing Stans No tubes design. Specialized thought they could crush the little guy with having more deep pocket lawyer money. Stans won. I will never buy a Specialized bike. 

Stan’s NoTubes of New York has prevailed at the United States Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in an eight-year battle against Specialized of California.

The Federal Circuit decision upholds a previous ruling by the Patent Trial and Appeal Board (PTACool , which had declared the rim, wheel and tubeless manufacturer ‘s U.S. Patent Number 7,334,846 to be valid

3
Bearuno
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AU
3/16/2023 6:59am Edited Date/Time 3/16/2023 8:00am
Tim507 wrote:
I met Don a few years ago in Vegas when I was there for SX. Don was working on fork mods for CZ's and he had...

I met Don a few years ago in Vegas when I was there for SX. Don was working on fork mods for CZ's and he had some parts for me. Prior to that we were comminucating via phone and email.

He shared the whole story with me and what he was up to then. From what he indicated the "Royalties" were not a lot  write about.

 

Listen to the Podcast, Tim507.

You might be right with respect to Royalties ( here in OZ, our 2 Bi Weekly MC mags / newspapers covered the case pretty well, and we'd read about 'royalties to be paid per each model Suzuki sold, with the Full Floater, or even just the name Full Floater on the swingarm), as they seemed to be challenged and changed / deleted every now and then.

But Don, deservedly, got a Lot of money from Suzuki.   Through Settlement / Awardings, it seems? Steve mentioned 19 million $, Don inferred a lot more, in that interview, but would not say the amount - fair enough. So, I'd say his low royalties, may have been correct, or, just a way of not getting into money matters. I sure as hell won't tell Anyone the monies I've got (buggerall compared to Don - but I've beaten two companies who tried to rip me off) that I've had as settlements.

Before I got the book, I had no idea of the Specialized 'Brain' issue. But, working with Fox, some years ago, I had to deal with the Inertia Valve shocks and forks. What a pain in the arse they were - but, anything with what could be labelled as a "Lock Out" was a pain in the arse. That term, I curse the application of it. Wankers (some, and there's a Lot of Wankers in MTB - and I still make a substantial part of my  living through MTBs) just latch onto that the suspension "should be completely locked out", when it's the engagement / disengagement of a (much) heavier compression circuit.  Fox made the shocks, but it was a "Specialized Thing", so, I think Fox weren't involved with the Richardson / Specialized fight.

I quite liked the shock and what it did - I still have one of my own frames with the remote reservoir Brain shock on it - I just hated the said dramas with people who expected a totally rigid rear end. 

Don is such an interesting man, who's done so much, and come across some nasty f**kers that tried to use him. That he beat them, and, has made such innovative designs, and is still doing so, is just wonderful.  I can also relate to his health matters, having had my own "Dances with Jimmy * ".

* Jimmy Dancer is an old school ('Strine')  Aussie name for Cancer.

Here's a picture of one of his Earlier rear ends on a Husky, prior to the shock going onto the swingarm (circa '74 in my labelling) : 

Monoshock 1974 Huskyby Don Richardson - inventor of the Full Floater - semi close up RH side  %282%29

 

4

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