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Regarding the entertainment factor, you literally could say the same for 90% of the classes at local events. The only classes people go up to watch, outside of the ones they know people in, are 250A and 450A. People don't go to the track for entertainment; they go because they want to race. Apparently everyone who isn't racing 250A and 450A should just stick to the practice track sharpening their skills.
While you are correct that I wasn't racing 125A in the 90s (because I was born in 91), I was still racing at Aztalan and all of the other Wisconsin tracks in the 90s since I grew up in Madison. I don't remember seeing packed hillsides with news stations so you're probably "remembering" through some rose colored glasses. I will agree that gates were more full back then, but they still had the youth classes so I'm not seeing the connection.
Example A...
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I moved to NC 16 yrs ago and immediately found that the tracks in the western part of the state were like 2/3 scale tracks, narrow, short, not at all interesting, and turnout was pretty bad. I ended up gravitating toward GNCC and local hare scrambles for that reason.
For a while I would go to "practice " days...but I stopped that a few years ago, after watching two PW50's putt around the track for twenty min, then two quad riders for twenty min, a few 65cc for twenty min, 85cc for twenty min, B and C riders for twenty min. ...Getting to ride for twenty min myself every couple hours is a complete waste of a day in my opinion and I am done with it.
I miss motocross. I really enjoy it when I occasionally get some seat time on a private track here and there....but I am done with the local moto scene. Not interested in standing around all day
50cc demo - youngsters learning to ride
50cc division 2
65cc 7-u10 years
65cc 10-u12 years
85cc 9-11
85cc 12-15
Junior lites - 125/150 2 stroke, 250f
Senior 250
Senior 450
Vets
Open
Each class gets a 4 lap practice and 3 motos. Seniors get more laps than juniors. If classes are graded they are run together and scored separately. Sometimes junior age groups will be combined if possible.
To the guys promoting. You say you have to run multiple classes to get more entry fees to make money however, you have multiple people here saying they don't turn up because of the multiple classes, long days and lack of ride time. Have you tried running a condensed program as above to entice more riders? Advertise the class list prior so people know what they are signing up for and see how it goes.
In the example above the juniors usually ride 2 classes or 65 and 85, the seniors run their bike size class and open or vet and bike size class. This gives people a chance to run 2 classes and a reduced schedule. This is how tracks have run since I started racing in the late 90's
The way those classes are set up it would be hard for many kids to run 2 classes without having 2 bikes. Most kids are on a 50 or 65 because it's the correct size for them. Forcing them to get a bigger bike just to run another class isn't a good idea imo. Many kids here want to run 2 and sometimes 3 classes. But most want 1 bike to race a second class.
I'm 64 and would have no business running a Vet class thats 40 and up. That doesn't sound furn to me.
And you're running 3 motos per class, so I'm not sure how much time that you're saving.
But if a promoter wants to try a radical class change like that, give it a shot, maybe it'll work.
The trick would be adding enough new riders to make up for the loss of entries. As I've said there's just no easy answer.
A/B
85/65
C/D
50cc/Playbike
Vet plus 40
And never Quads. Quad MX is almost dead anyway.
I feel bad for you guys up there because there arent many options other than that. well i guess you guys have that new moto 40 place but other than that seems pretty scarce. Thankfully I live near the shoals and can ride there at least 4 days a week if I want to.
As for kids riding 2 different size bikes we usually find a kid will start on a 50 then when they are big enough will add the 65. Eventually they outgrow the 50 and by that stage can handle an 85, even if it needs the suspension lowered for a bit too help them touch. Eventually they out grow the 65 and so on.
I don't get the reasoning behind having no place in a 40+ class for yourself. My wife races and is slow. We run vets and ladies together and she'll usually get lapped in a 5 lap race. She holds her line and the fast guys go round her. I usually give her a "wooo" as I'm going past just to be a smart ass. Other older guys are in the same boat, they might get lapped by the front runners but have their own race going on in the back of the pack.
I guess you gotta decide if you want 2 motos per day racing against 5 people or 3 gate drops with a full grid
Pit Row
Haven't raced much recently due to Corona, but the last 2 races this was how it was done:
Intention is to have races with a lot of riders in it, but only if it is ok in terms of speed gap.
If there is a low turnout in a certain class they will be combined with a similar group in terms of speed. If that cannot be found they will have their own class.
Local:
50cc: 5 riders
65+85: 18 riders
Hobby: 37 riders
125cc: 20 riders
250cc: 15 riders
MX1 & 40+: 16 riders
Regional:
50cc: 7 riders
85cc + woman: 24 riders
125cc: 50 riders
250cc: 44 riders
450cc: 32 riders
45+: 47 riders
If there are 2 groups mentioned in one race, it means both groups ride for their own classification together.
If there are more then 50 riders or a big performance gap the class is split. Depending on how big the groups are some different combo's are made. For example now it was 85+woman, but often it is 45+ and woman together. Not this time since there were 47 allready in that class.
Normally there is also a super class at the regional races, this is for riders who have a license for the national races, but they didnt race at this regional since there was a national that day.
I think it comes down to your last sentence. There have been a few people in this thread state they don’t want to race lots of people and not do well they’d rather race fewer and do well. Society in a nutshell I guess.
Even in my younger days I always preferred finishing mid pack and battling the whole Moto than coming in top 3 in a class of 5-6 guys.
Also, the point was sort of missed that your schedule allows for 4 laps of practice and 3 Motos per class, 3 motos sounds awesome.
And as a promoter I can tell you the youth classes pay the bills more than any. They bring the whole family.
As far as the Vet class, I ride plus 60. There's usually about 5 or 6 guys in my class but we always run with another class. Most promoters are very good about combining classes. So we have pretty full gates as well.
I don't mind running with younger guys, it's fun and I do it all the time on practice days. I just don't want to be scored against them. Same thing when I run a 5K. They also class by age, as most amateur sports do.
All you're doing is just moving the chess pieces around.
As I've said, making the race day shorter is something we all want. But getting that done requires tradeoffs, there's no magic bullet here.
Also it varies by area. Our local track, LTM in Casey IL gets over 400 entries every race. Many times 500 plus. The track is awesome and the promoter is a good dude. He's always working to improve the product. Which I feel is the key to his success.
Bh, you keep mentioning the strength of cross country race numbers, and credit that to longer races and shorter days.
I would agree those points are a small part of the reason, and at the same time state that more of the people making the transition are doing so because they don't have to worry about ridiculous jumps designed to "separate the men from the boys" and the fact that they don't have to have the latest bells and whistles to compete, but can depend more on experience and proper prep to do well.
Where I disagree with a few of you is that the big reason that local races have dropped off is short motos and long days and that a large number of the defectors would come back to local mx racing with the changes you suggest.
you want promoters to completely rip up what they have found works so a few people can have longer moto and race against bigger classes while the promoter risks damage to his bottom line and having to listen to complaints that they are price gouging because they raised prices and cut classes?
While it is nice to wax nostalgic about the good ol' days of full gates in a and b classes and running 15 minute motos on beat out tracks, those days are gone, and they aren't coming back. The sport has changed a lot. Factory contengencies, growing focus on LL's, amateur ponts advancement, and training facilities have changed how developing riders advance to the point that it even affects fast C riders.
That group doesn't race local anymore, and longer motos and fewer gate drops are not going to change that.
The majority of riders that show up at "local" races are recreational. They don't train 5 days a week for mx. A 15.minute moto would wipe them out. They like running multiple classes to get breaks and they like to have more gate drops.
if you look at the races that are doing well in nc/sc and east tn, east bend, Carolina outlaw, and victory sports hot summer nights series, they all cater to that crowd and are the only races doing really well.
Now, with those points said, there is room for promoters to tighten things up a bit. An example would be schoolboy 1 and schoolboy 2 classes both being offered at local races. It is redundant. There are plenty of displacement and unlimited classes offered that those riders still have at least 3 or 4 classes they can race and be competitive in.
The big difference in the tracks that do really well is running a tight program. Start on time, minimize breaks, dial in track prep so track work is minimized, and combine classes in staggered starts when reasonable.
It would be amazing if there was a single track operator out there who still rode!
It is hard to even find tracks that allow us to line up and when they do they like to drop us all on the same gate Aged 16-50 of all skill levels.
Its still worth it though because I keep going back for more.
And imo the training thing is not a factor. If you saw the starting line for the pm Gncc race you would be shocked that some of those guys make it 2 hours much less 3 hours. Really my end goal for my ideal race format would be to make it more like real pro motocross where there is multi dimensional. You have to have to set your pace and not explode, ride consistent, get a decent start, and have real race craft. The local races I see there are only 2 dimensions. Get a good start and ride fast.
I feel like a longer motos would really make the racing better and promote different riding styles. Whereas now it’s just get a start and go. And really I feel like there is a large crowd that really wants long motos and someone needs to go out on a limb and try it out. I really don’t think it could hurt a series like Carolina outlaw where they are maybe at around 50-100 entries. Now if you are a local series that is getting 250-400 you really have no reason to change. But some of these series are really struggling and doing the same old thing year after year.
Post a reply to: Local Racing... What really grinds my gears. (South Carolina)