A Ray got the Rona :(

Tim507
Posts
3481
Joined
6/8/2010
Location
Oregon City, OR, USA
2/12/2021 4:56am
Interesting perspective!
Numbers do not lie


As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change from the previous year
Year 2017 2,818,503 Americans died
Year 2018: 2,839,205 deaths (20,702 more than the previous year 2017)
Year 2019: 2,855,000 deaths (16,300 more than the previous year 2018)
The year of the pandemic …
Year 2020: 2,913,144 deaths (57,641 more than the previous year 2019)

BUT WAIT: There were zero deaths from Covid-19 during 2018, and 2019 and the jump from 2019 was only 57,641 ???

I've been told that COVID is responsible for now 400,000 + deaths. Shouldn't the 2020 number be a hell of a lot higher?

So the question becomes: How many people died OF COVID and How many died (of other causes) WITH COVID?
12
13
EngIceDave
Posts
2431
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Merritt Island, FL, USA
2/12/2021 5:07am
Why is it so important for people to dismiss this virus?

Does anyone know?
13
12
Tim507
Posts
3481
Joined
6/8/2010
Location
Oregon City, OR, USA
2/12/2021 5:20am
The Virus should not be dismissed, rather it should be recognized for what it is and not promoted for what it is not.
12
5
Timo
Posts
1442
Joined
1/9/2021
Location
Wichita, KS, USA
2/12/2021 5:30am
Tim507 wrote:
Interesting perspective! Numbers do not lie As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change from the previous year...
Interesting perspective!
Numbers do not lie


As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change from the previous year
Year 2017 2,818,503 Americans died
Year 2018: 2,839,205 deaths (20,702 more than the previous year 2017)
Year 2019: 2,855,000 deaths (16,300 more than the previous year 2018)
The year of the pandemic …
Year 2020: 2,913,144 deaths (57,641 more than the previous year 2019)

BUT WAIT: There were zero deaths from Covid-19 during 2018, and 2019 and the jump from 2019 was only 57,641 ???

I've been told that COVID is responsible for now 400,000 + deaths. Shouldn't the 2020 number be a hell of a lot higher?

So the question becomes: How many people died OF COVID and How many died (of other causes) WITH COVID?
"Due to lag time in reporting, official data on 2020 deaths will likely not be released until late 2021 or early 2022. However, preliminary weekly data can provide estimates of how the pandemic affected deaths in the US this year."

Basically October through December isn't completely finalized yet. When my sister in-law died in Nov 2018, we didn't get the death certificate until March 2019. So your facts are full of holes...

Also total deaths in:
2019 was 2,854,838 your number has been rounded up, which definitely didn't come from the cdc.
2020 preliminary: 3,187,086 no official number has been posted because it's not official...
5
3

The Shop

sporkfpoon
Posts
63
Joined
1/21/2021
Location
Virginia Beach, VA, USA
2/12/2021 5:39am
Tim507 wrote:
The Virus should not be dismissed, rather it should be recognized for what it is and not promoted for what it is not.
It just seems to me that the deniers and down-players ignore that the infection and death rate is what it is despite the social distance and mask measures taken. They say the efforts are for nothing because people still get sick, and then they say it’s not a big deal to get sick because most people survive.

If the quarantine steps had not been taken, many, many more would be sick and dead. The chance of both catching and dying from Covid is significantly higher than things like the flu, even if the percentages appear to be in your favor. A 99% survival rate means 3.5 million Americans die if we all catch it, and that 76 million people would die from it worldwide. If you want to use 98% survival rate then double these numbers.

If quarantine steps had been followed more rigorously there’s a chance we’d be out of this mess instead of still arguing about why we’re in it.
12
9
sporkfpoon
Posts
63
Joined
1/21/2021
Location
Virginia Beach, VA, USA
2/12/2021 5:46am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2021 5:47am
Tim507 wrote:
Interesting perspective! Numbers do not lie As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change from the previous year...
Interesting perspective!
Numbers do not lie


As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change from the previous year
Year 2017 2,818,503 Americans died
Year 2018: 2,839,205 deaths (20,702 more than the previous year 2017)
Year 2019: 2,855,000 deaths (16,300 more than the previous year 2018)
The year of the pandemic …
Year 2020: 2,913,144 deaths (57,641 more than the previous year 2019)

BUT WAIT: There were zero deaths from Covid-19 during 2018, and 2019 and the jump from 2019 was only 57,641 ???

I've been told that COVID is responsible for now 400,000 + deaths. Shouldn't the 2020 number be a hell of a lot higher?

So the question becomes: How many people died OF COVID and How many died (of other causes) WITH COVID?
When you say ONLY 57,000, you’re talking about an increase that is 3-4x the increase of the previous two years. It’s nearly double those two years combined.

And yes there are people who died while sick with Covid who had other health problems. They may have died anyway, but they may have lived longer. Whether that’s 1 day longer or 10 years longer nobody can say, but it contributed to their death.
7
5
EngIceDave
Posts
2431
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Merritt Island, FL, USA
2/12/2021 5:49am
My Dad was 84, he would've physically made it to this year.
9
5
APLMAN99
Posts
12510
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
2/12/2021 7:00am
Tim507 wrote:
Interesting perspective! Numbers do not lie As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change from the previous year...
Interesting perspective!
Numbers do not lie


As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change from the previous year
Year 2017 2,818,503 Americans died
Year 2018: 2,839,205 deaths (20,702 more than the previous year 2017)
Year 2019: 2,855,000 deaths (16,300 more than the previous year 2018)
The year of the pandemic …
Year 2020: 2,913,144 deaths (57,641 more than the previous year 2019)

BUT WAIT: There were zero deaths from Covid-19 during 2018, and 2019 and the jump from 2019 was only 57,641 ???

I've been told that COVID is responsible for now 400,000 + deaths. Shouldn't the 2020 number be a hell of a lot higher?

So the question becomes: How many people died OF COVID and How many died (of other causes) WITH COVID?
Tim, this should be the time when I chastise you for not doing that research that you have been crowing about......

Chances are that you have been parroting those numbers from another source rather than looking them up yourself, because if you HAD looked them up you would realize that the CDC makes it clear that the the numbers generally take a full 12 weeks to finalize for any particular week. The numbers you appear to be using were from several weeks ago at best, because the CDC website now lists the total deaths for 2020 at 3,384,721. Now compare that to the 2019 number and you will see that applying your same logic, it is apparent that there were greater than 530K more deaths in 2020 than in 2019.

Did you forget to actually do that research you were talking about and just repeat numbers that seemed to be supportive of your view?!?!?!?!?

Here's a good spot to start doing that alleged research of yours.



8
1
Tim507
Posts
3481
Joined
6/8/2010
Location
Oregon City, OR, USA
2/12/2021 7:07am
Tim507 wrote:
Interesting perspective! Numbers do not lie As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change from the previous year...
Interesting perspective!
Numbers do not lie


As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change from the previous year
Year 2017 2,818,503 Americans died
Year 2018: 2,839,205 deaths (20,702 more than the previous year 2017)
Year 2019: 2,855,000 deaths (16,300 more than the previous year 2018)
The year of the pandemic …
Year 2020: 2,913,144 deaths (57,641 more than the previous year 2019)

BUT WAIT: There were zero deaths from Covid-19 during 2018, and 2019 and the jump from 2019 was only 57,641 ???

I've been told that COVID is responsible for now 400,000 + deaths. Shouldn't the 2020 number be a hell of a lot higher?

So the question becomes: How many people died OF COVID and How many died (of other causes) WITH COVID?
APLMAN99 wrote:
Tim, this should be the time when I chastise you for not doing that research that you have been crowing about...... Chances are that you have...
Tim, this should be the time when I chastise you for not doing that research that you have been crowing about......

Chances are that you have been parroting those numbers from another source rather than looking them up yourself, because if you HAD looked them up you would realize that the CDC makes it clear that the the numbers generally take a full 12 weeks to finalize for any particular week. The numbers you appear to be using were from several weeks ago at best, because the CDC website now lists the total deaths for 2020 at 3,384,721. Now compare that to the 2019 number and you will see that applying your same logic, it is apparent that there were greater than 530K more deaths in 2020 than in 2019.

Did you forget to actually do that research you were talking about and just repeat numbers that seemed to be supportive of your view?!?!?!?!?

Here's a good spot to start doing that alleged research of yours.



Your source if you please....
1
6
APLMAN99
Posts
12510
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
2/12/2021 7:11am
Tim507 wrote:
Interesting perspective! Numbers do not lie As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change from the previous year...
Interesting perspective!
Numbers do not lie


As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change from the previous year
Year 2017 2,818,503 Americans died
Year 2018: 2,839,205 deaths (20,702 more than the previous year 2017)
Year 2019: 2,855,000 deaths (16,300 more than the previous year 2018)
The year of the pandemic …
Year 2020: 2,913,144 deaths (57,641 more than the previous year 2019)

BUT WAIT: There were zero deaths from Covid-19 during 2018, and 2019 and the jump from 2019 was only 57,641 ???

I've been told that COVID is responsible for now 400,000 + deaths. Shouldn't the 2020 number be a hell of a lot higher?

So the question becomes: How many people died OF COVID and How many died (of other causes) WITH COVID?
APLMAN99 wrote:
Tim, this should be the time when I chastise you for not doing that research that you have been crowing about...... Chances are that you have...
Tim, this should be the time when I chastise you for not doing that research that you have been crowing about......

Chances are that you have been parroting those numbers from another source rather than looking them up yourself, because if you HAD looked them up you would realize that the CDC makes it clear that the the numbers generally take a full 12 weeks to finalize for any particular week. The numbers you appear to be using were from several weeks ago at best, because the CDC website now lists the total deaths for 2020 at 3,384,721. Now compare that to the 2019 number and you will see that applying your same logic, it is apparent that there were greater than 530K more deaths in 2020 than in 2019.

Did you forget to actually do that research you were talking about and just repeat numbers that seemed to be supportive of your view?!?!?!?!?

Here's a good spot to start doing that alleged research of yours.



Tim507 wrote:
Your source if you please....
Ooops, forgot to put the link in. You should already have this source if your claim of doing research had half a spec of merit to it. You do need to download and sort the spreadsheets, and that isn't quite as easy as doing the research by repeating memes or blurbs from your favorite echo chamber but it really is worth it to do........

https://data.cdc.gov/browse?q=Weekly%20Counts%20of%20Deaths%20by%20Stat…

14
2
Tim507
Posts
3481
Joined
6/8/2010
Location
Oregon City, OR, USA
2/12/2021 7:26am
IMHO all sources are questionable and each of use get to choose what we want to present to any debate. I agree that “it may appear” that I’m parroting data that I choose to believe, never the less that agreement honestly applies to everyone.
Thus, this is where we find ourselves, face to face at the demilitarized zone as both sides are ultimately “Deniers” of facts controlled by the controllers who are not us.
I’ve come to the determination years ago that the manipulators are driving the dialogue and we are their targets.
Power and control are the goal, all for selfish reasons.
The debate which is programed to divide us, has been successful for decades.
We all know the divisive topics promoted that are used for this purpose. COVID is just another useful tool.
Ultimately Ray is a victim of this charade. Again, this is my belief.

On that note I choose to exit this debate and go riding and watch SX and other racing events.
6
27
APLMAN99
Posts
12510
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
2/12/2021 7:26am
Tim507 wrote:
Interesting perspective! Numbers do not lie As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change from the previous year...
Interesting perspective!
Numbers do not lie


As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change from the previous year
Year 2017 2,818,503 Americans died
Year 2018: 2,839,205 deaths (20,702 more than the previous year 2017)
Year 2019: 2,855,000 deaths (16,300 more than the previous year 2018)
The year of the pandemic …
Year 2020: 2,913,144 deaths (57,641 more than the previous year 2019)

BUT WAIT: There were zero deaths from Covid-19 during 2018, and 2019 and the jump from 2019 was only 57,641 ???

I've been told that COVID is responsible for now 400,000 + deaths. Shouldn't the 2020 number be a hell of a lot higher?

So the question becomes: How many people died OF COVID and How many died (of other causes) WITH COVID?
APLMAN99 wrote:
Tim, this should be the time when I chastise you for not doing that research that you have been crowing about...... Chances are that you have...
Tim, this should be the time when I chastise you for not doing that research that you have been crowing about......

Chances are that you have been parroting those numbers from another source rather than looking them up yourself, because if you HAD looked them up you would realize that the CDC makes it clear that the the numbers generally take a full 12 weeks to finalize for any particular week. The numbers you appear to be using were from several weeks ago at best, because the CDC website now lists the total deaths for 2020 at 3,384,721. Now compare that to the 2019 number and you will see that applying your same logic, it is apparent that there were greater than 530K more deaths in 2020 than in 2019.

Did you forget to actually do that research you were talking about and just repeat numbers that seemed to be supportive of your view?!?!?!?!?

Here's a good spot to start doing that alleged research of yours.



Tim507 wrote:
Your source if you please....
On a side note, can you please turn the thermostat up down there? I am heading out for Portland in a few minutes and I was hoping to get a bit warmer weather than we are having here but it doesn't look too promising!!!!!
1
mac3-d
Posts
1334
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
IE
2/12/2021 7:28am
so anyway how's A-Ray doing ?
8
APLMAN99
Posts
12510
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
2/12/2021 7:34am
Tim507 wrote:
IMHO all sources are questionable and each of use get to choose what we want to present to any debate. I agree that “it may appear”...
IMHO all sources are questionable and each of use get to choose what we want to present to any debate. I agree that “it may appear” that I’m parroting data that I choose to believe, never the less that agreement honestly applies to everyone.
Thus, this is where we find ourselves, face to face at the demilitarized zone as both sides are ultimately “Deniers” of facts controlled by the controllers who are not us.
I’ve come to the determination years ago that the manipulators are driving the dialogue and we are their targets.
Power and control are the goal, all for selfish reasons.
The debate which is programed to divide us, has been successful for decades.
We all know the divisive topics promoted that are used for this purpose. COVID is just another useful tool.
Ultimately Ray is a victim of this charade. Again, this is my belief.

On that note I choose to exit this debate and go riding and watch SX and other racing events.
So wait, you go from "numbers don't lie" when you think that the numbers back up your view, to "choose what we want to present" when shown the actual data?

You have always seemed to be a reasonable dude, but this is beyond hilarious.

The "data" you claimed had no shown source, yet you were presenting it as factual. I showed you the actual data, from THE actual source, and you sidestep like Ginger Rogers. Really?

You are somewhat correct in your belief that this leaves both "sides" face to face, but at least have the nuts to admit that in this instance that the side you are standing on is the one that is ignoring data, inventing false data, or denying data that doesn't fit your agenda.

And the ultimate irony is your fraudulent sermons on doing "research", as if none of us ever do that and you were sowing heaps of knowledge on the unwashed masses........

When shown some VERY basic research tactics (verifying numbers at the source before parroting false ones) you certainly changed your tactic in a hurry.
16
9
mx317
Posts
5332
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
2/12/2021 7:34am
mac3-d wrote:
so anyway how's A-Ray doing ?
I talked to his dad Ronnie and Alex is doing ok.
3
JM485
Posts
5804
Joined
10/1/2013
Location
Davis, CA, USA
2/12/2021 7:44am
Tim507 wrote:
Interesting perspective! Numbers do not lie As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change from the previous year...
Interesting perspective!
Numbers do not lie


As reported by the CDC ... Here are the US deaths by year and the change from the previous year
Year 2017 2,818,503 Americans died
Year 2018: 2,839,205 deaths (20,702 more than the previous year 2017)
Year 2019: 2,855,000 deaths (16,300 more than the previous year 2018)
The year of the pandemic …
Year 2020: 2,913,144 deaths (57,641 more than the previous year 2019)

BUT WAIT: There were zero deaths from Covid-19 during 2018, and 2019 and the jump from 2019 was only 57,641 ???

I've been told that COVID is responsible for now 400,000 + deaths. Shouldn't the 2020 number be a hell of a lot higher?

So the question becomes: How many people died OF COVID and How many died (of other causes) WITH COVID?
Regardless of what the true numbers are or how severe each of us believe this virus is, one thing that is irrefutable is the fact that the "deaths due to covid" tally is much better described as "positive tests at time of death".

This is something I have seen first hand. My grandfathers brother unfortunately passed away late last year after a long battle with Dimensia (I seriously don't wish that on anyone, it's horrific). After his passing a Covid test was administered and it came back positive, so his death was attributed to Covid. Now, to be sure there's plenty of people dying outside of hospitals and not having their deaths recorded at the same time, so maybe that balances the number out, but the take away here is that you have to take the total death number for what it is and realize that it likely isn't all that accurate.

Whether it's too low or too high is anyone's guess, but anyone throwing that number around as absolute truth is wasting their time.
12
6
Tim507
Posts
3481
Joined
6/8/2010
Location
Oregon City, OR, USA
2/12/2021 8:10am
Tim507 wrote:
IMHO all sources are questionable and each of use get to choose what we want to present to any debate. I agree that “it may appear”...
IMHO all sources are questionable and each of use get to choose what we want to present to any debate. I agree that “it may appear” that I’m parroting data that I choose to believe, never the less that agreement honestly applies to everyone.
Thus, this is where we find ourselves, face to face at the demilitarized zone as both sides are ultimately “Deniers” of facts controlled by the controllers who are not us.
I’ve come to the determination years ago that the manipulators are driving the dialogue and we are their targets.
Power and control are the goal, all for selfish reasons.
The debate which is programed to divide us, has been successful for decades.
We all know the divisive topics promoted that are used for this purpose. COVID is just another useful tool.
Ultimately Ray is a victim of this charade. Again, this is my belief.

On that note I choose to exit this debate and go riding and watch SX and other racing events.
APLMAN99 wrote:
So wait, you go from "numbers don't lie" when you think that the numbers back up your view, to "choose what we want to present" when...
So wait, you go from "numbers don't lie" when you think that the numbers back up your view, to "choose what we want to present" when shown the actual data?

You have always seemed to be a reasonable dude, but this is beyond hilarious.

The "data" you claimed had no shown source, yet you were presenting it as factual. I showed you the actual data, from THE actual source, and you sidestep like Ginger Rogers. Really?

You are somewhat correct in your belief that this leaves both "sides" face to face, but at least have the nuts to admit that in this instance that the side you are standing on is the one that is ignoring data, inventing false data, or denying data that doesn't fit your agenda.

And the ultimate irony is your fraudulent sermons on doing "research", as if none of us ever do that and you were sowing heaps of knowledge on the unwashed masses........

When shown some VERY basic research tactics (verifying numbers at the source before parroting false ones) you certainly changed your tactic in a hurry.
My tactics have never changed as I see the bigger picture and that is not COVID. I recognize when a debate is useless.
My last comment speaks my thoughts clearly.

Until we decide not to debate the "questionable facts" that are available to us and decide to work together, those who control us maintain control.

Cheers to all and happy motoWink Cool
5
14
TeamGreen
Posts
37065
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA, USA
2/12/2021 8:33am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2021 8:34am
mac3-d wrote:
so anyway how's A-Ray doing ?
mx317 wrote:
I talked to his dad Ronnie and Alex is doing ok.
Hey, look here!

Someone is commenting on what the thread IS ACTUALLY ABOUT!

Stoked for A-Ray.

Now, the rest of you can go back to arguing the implied merits of “your COVID position” Grinning
7
1
APLMAN99
Posts
12510
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
2/12/2021 8:37am
Tim507 wrote:
IMHO all sources are questionable and each of use get to choose what we want to present to any debate. I agree that “it may appear”...
IMHO all sources are questionable and each of use get to choose what we want to present to any debate. I agree that “it may appear” that I’m parroting data that I choose to believe, never the less that agreement honestly applies to everyone.
Thus, this is where we find ourselves, face to face at the demilitarized zone as both sides are ultimately “Deniers” of facts controlled by the controllers who are not us.
I’ve come to the determination years ago that the manipulators are driving the dialogue and we are their targets.
Power and control are the goal, all for selfish reasons.
The debate which is programed to divide us, has been successful for decades.
We all know the divisive topics promoted that are used for this purpose. COVID is just another useful tool.
Ultimately Ray is a victim of this charade. Again, this is my belief.

On that note I choose to exit this debate and go riding and watch SX and other racing events.
APLMAN99 wrote:
So wait, you go from "numbers don't lie" when you think that the numbers back up your view, to "choose what we want to present" when...
So wait, you go from "numbers don't lie" when you think that the numbers back up your view, to "choose what we want to present" when shown the actual data?

You have always seemed to be a reasonable dude, but this is beyond hilarious.

The "data" you claimed had no shown source, yet you were presenting it as factual. I showed you the actual data, from THE actual source, and you sidestep like Ginger Rogers. Really?

You are somewhat correct in your belief that this leaves both "sides" face to face, but at least have the nuts to admit that in this instance that the side you are standing on is the one that is ignoring data, inventing false data, or denying data that doesn't fit your agenda.

And the ultimate irony is your fraudulent sermons on doing "research", as if none of us ever do that and you were sowing heaps of knowledge on the unwashed masses........

When shown some VERY basic research tactics (verifying numbers at the source before parroting false ones) you certainly changed your tactic in a hurry.
Tim507 wrote:
My tactics have never changed as I see the bigger picture and that is not COVID. I recognize when a debate is useless. My last comment...
My tactics have never changed as I see the bigger picture and that is not COVID. I recognize when a debate is useless.
My last comment speaks my thoughts clearly.

Until we decide not to debate the "questionable facts" that are available to us and decide to work together, those who control us maintain control.

Cheers to all and happy motoWink Cool
"numbers don't lie"

translation- "actual numbers that don't match up with my predetermined view lie, others that are just made up are good......."
8
6
Spagina767
Posts
912
Joined
8/27/2013
Location
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
2/12/2021 8:52am
mxmedic wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/02/11/478087/s1200_Eqn5iEfXIAcCExF.jpg[/img]

Funny, considering COVID has proven to be airborne, not just respiratory. Nobody wants to talk about that, though. Which means the partials are smaller than 7 micron, which your mask does NOTHING for, and can travel way further than 6’ (think douchy vape cloud).
4
16
Spurdo
Posts
430
Joined
12/26/2016
Location
FI
2/12/2021 9:06am
EngIceDave wrote:
Being careful doesn't make you afraid, it makes you smart. Stupid soldiers don't survive battles. You don't ride without a helmet, goggles or your other gear....because...
Being careful doesn't make you afraid, it makes you smart. Stupid soldiers don't survive battles. You don't ride without a helmet, goggles or your other gear....because it protects you....wear a stupid mask and STFU.
I think I'll be sticking to O.E. coolant from now on, thanks. Hoping the best for Alex, his family and team.
7
9
hamncheeze
Posts
2427
Joined
1/13/2018
Location
British Columbia, CA
2/12/2021 9:12am
brlatm wrote:
Doctors, Big Corporations, the CDC, and NIH are piles of shit, and I agree with it. All the education in the world won't help you to...
Doctors, Big Corporations, the CDC, and NIH are piles of shit, and I agree with it.

All the education in the world won't help you to not chase a dollar at the cost of another persons life.
I can't wait to reference this post and tell my wife she is shit. Oh and I'm a medical scientist so I'm probably shit too. Got it.
2
7
davistld01
Posts
9285
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Springfield, MO, USA
2/12/2021 9:20am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2021 9:21am
Totally off the OP's subject line...but, since there are real medical people here, I have a question:

If masks are supposed to work...why aren't they working?

Asking for a friend.

And...best of luck to A Ray.
3
12
byke
Posts
3040
Joined
8/12/2015
Location
Auburn, CA, USA
2/12/2021 9:27am Edited Date/Time 2/12/2021 9:28am
We don't know because it's not binary and people don't actually wear them. To someone that doesn't know where "outside" is, I can see how people would think California is the pinnacle of crazy restrictions and thus "proof" that restrictions don't work, but when one actually visits this mysterious "outside" region, they would quickly see that the perception of these restrictions do not meet with reality.
3
dang472
Posts
612
Joined
6/26/2014
Location
Kingston, IL, USA
Fantasy
2/12/2021 9:28am
Well the flu is nonexistent because everyone is wearing masks and social distancing.....Covid is rampant in states with mask mandates for a year because no one is wearing masks or social distancing. Please follow along.
8
7
APLMAN99
Posts
12510
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
2/12/2021 9:37am
davistld01 wrote:
Totally off the OP's subject line...but, since there are real medical people here, I have a question: [b]If masks are supposed to work...why aren't they working?[/b]...
Totally off the OP's subject line...but, since there are real medical people here, I have a question:

If masks are supposed to work...why aren't they working?

Asking for a friend.

And...best of luck to A Ray.
I would suppose that it hinges upon your definition of “work”.

If you define it as completely eliminating any and all transmission, then they obviously don’t (and won’t) “work”.

Most people understand that there gradients in between 100% effective and 0% effective, and whether or not something “works” isn’t dependent upon it being one of those 2 extremes.
7
1
EngIceDave
Posts
2431
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Merritt Island, FL, USA
2/12/2021 9:39am
EngIceDave wrote:
Being careful doesn't make you afraid, it makes you smart. Stupid soldiers don't survive battles. You don't ride without a helmet, goggles or your other gear....because...
Being careful doesn't make you afraid, it makes you smart. Stupid soldiers don't survive battles. You don't ride without a helmet, goggles or your other gear....because it protects you....wear a stupid mask and STFU.
Spurdo wrote:
I think I'll be sticking to O.E. coolant from now on, thanks. Hoping the best for Alex, his family and team.
Really?

You're offended because I told people to be careful?
To suggest using and wearing protective gear and to view a mask the same way makes me a bad guy?


Not wanting anyone to have to go through what my family has had to endure makes me wrong?

Then so be it
14
13
RichieW13
Posts
2468
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
2/12/2021 9:54am
JM485 wrote:
Regardless of what the true numbers are or how severe each of us believe this virus is, one thing that is irrefutable is the fact that...
Regardless of what the true numbers are or how severe each of us believe this virus is, one thing that is irrefutable is the fact that the "deaths due to covid" tally is much better described as "positive tests at time of death".

This is something I have seen first hand. My grandfathers brother unfortunately passed away late last year after a long battle with Dimensia (I seriously don't wish that on anyone, it's horrific). After his passing a Covid test was administered and it came back positive, so his death was attributed to Covid. Now, to be sure there's plenty of people dying outside of hospitals and not having their deaths recorded at the same time, so maybe that balances the number out, but the take away here is that you have to take the total death number for what it is and realize that it likely isn't all that accurate.

Whether it's too low or too high is anyone's guess, but anyone throwing that number around as absolute truth is wasting their time.
I know we hear about sketchy cases of COVID death attributions. There will always be exceptions.

But, generally, physicians are supposed to consider COVID the cause of death only when the COVID likely caused the the respiratory distress that led to death.

"Most of the cases are pretty straightforward," Fowkes told Live Science. "The lungs are usually so severely involved with pathology, so they are two to three times or more the normal weight of a normal lung."

https://www.livescience.com/how-covid-19-deaths-are-counted.html
4
1
RichieW13
Posts
2468
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA, USA
2/12/2021 9:58am
dang472 wrote:
Well the flu is nonexistent because everyone is wearing masks and social distancing.....Covid is rampant in states with mask mandates for a year because no one...
Well the flu is nonexistent because everyone is wearing masks and social distancing.....Covid is rampant in states with mask mandates for a year because no one is wearing masks or social distancing. Please follow along.
COVID is more contagious than the flu. Partly this is because COVID is new, and nobody has antibodies for it. Partly this is because the flu has a shorter incubation period than COVID.

The flu has been around for all of our lives, so we have antibodies, and it is more difficult to catch it. So our social distancing and masking is limiting the spread of the flu.
8
2

Post a reply to: A Ray got the Rona :(

The Latest