Are dealer “freight” fees legit?

three9zero
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Kamloops B.C, CA
2/3/2021 9:59am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
I have to laugh at the prep charge to “build” the bike. You uncrate the bike with a drill and that takes 5 minutes maximum if...
I have to laugh at the prep charge to “build” the bike. You uncrate the bike with a drill and that takes 5 minutes maximum if you take your time. Then you throw on the bars, front fender and front wheel, check coolant and oil and finish off with checking some nuts and bolts. Two hours max(if the mechanic is slow) and shops charge $400-$1000 for this “prep” for each bike. That’s outrageous. Most shops charge $95 per hour and only pay the mechanic $15-$20 per hour.
three9zero wrote:
A good shop's service department is always booked a week or 2 in advance, so their techs time is worth what ever their door rate is...
A good shop's service department is always booked a week or 2 in advance, so their techs time is worth what ever their door rate is, not what their wage is. Well run dealerships charge their sales departments the same rate as customer door rate.
mattyhamz2 wrote:
A few shops around my area have a specific tech that handles only new bike setups.
That employee is still employed by the service department(back of the shop) and taking up a spot where a tech can work($110hr). Pdi techs install accessories, change tires, and do minor services(oil, chain/sprockets) They are an apprentice/first year tech. They don't just build dirt bikes, they build street, atv, side by side, snowmobiles, watercraft and boats. It actually a harder job than you think. Their work is a customers first impression of a dealerships service department, and if their work is poor, it will be the last time a customer walks through your door.
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skeef
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Fantasy
2/3/2021 10:02am
three9zero wrote:
A good shop's service department is always booked a week or 2 in advance, so their techs time is worth what ever their door rate is...
A good shop's service department is always booked a week or 2 in advance, so their techs time is worth what ever their door rate is, not what their wage is. Well run dealerships charge their sales departments the same rate as customer door rate.
mattyhamz2 wrote:
A few shops around my area have a specific tech that handles only new bike setups.
three9zero wrote:
That employee is still employed by the service department(back of the shop) and taking up a spot where a tech can work($110hr). Pdi techs install accessories...
That employee is still employed by the service department(back of the shop) and taking up a spot where a tech can work($110hr). Pdi techs install accessories, change tires, and do minor services(oil, chain/sprockets) They are an apprentice/first year tech. They don't just build dirt bikes, they build street, atv, side by side, snowmobiles, watercraft and boats. It actually a harder job than you think. Their work is a customers first impression of a dealerships service department, and if their work is poor, it will be the last time a customer walks through your door.
Well said. Although new bike set up and pdi is different. Handled by different people, builders aren't techs.
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2/3/2021 10:16am
Titan1. wrote:
Here is where I’m coming from on this, the ONLY reason I will ever use a dealer is to buy a bike, that’s it, I won’t...
Here is where I’m coming from on this, the ONLY reason I will ever use a dealer is to buy a bike, that’s it, I won’t step foot in a dealer until Im ready to buy another bike (and I honestly look forward to the day I can just buy a bike online directly from the manufacturer and have it delivered to my house) so all other “value” dealers can claim to provide aren’t factors in my decision....so buying a bike is all about price to me....because that is literally all I need the dealer for (selling the bike).

So I’m not going to pay more than I have to, just because dealers have low margins (and they might) and are good guys (and they probably are)...if you all want to pay extra to the dealer for those reasons, go for it...but I shop around, find the dealer willing to sell me a bike for the lowest OTD price and that is where I buy the bike from.
So what you are saying is, you'd rather pay MSRP plus whatever freight and other fees buying directly from the manufacturer?

'I shop around, find the dealer willing to sell me a bike for the lowest OTD price' You do understand with your train of thought that would no longer be an option right?

8tensolutions
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Salt Lake City, UT, USA
2/3/2021 10:26am Edited Date/Time 2/3/2021 10:27am
Great example. What margin do you make in hot water heaters and AC units? I would imagine far better than 10-20% regardless of what you call...
Great example. What margin do you make in hot water heaters and AC units? I would imagine far better than 10-20% regardless of what you call it. Fee or whatever. Doc fees are completely different, but freight and setup is not unfair. It just amazes me how many people don’t want dealers to be profitable, but are fine with their industry operating on a 50-100% GP. Half the time, they don’t even know their industry business model which is even more concerning. Don’t turn this around on parts either, as dealers are lucky to make 40% on parts and accessories as an average.
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Our margins on equipment is not much higher than 20%. In my opinion you can't really compare HVAC equipment to bikes anyways based on the fact...
Our margins on equipment is not much higher than 20%. In my opinion you can't really compare HVAC equipment to bikes anyways based on the fact that HVAC is much more of a need than a luxury like bikes. Do I want my dealer to be around and profitable? Absolutely! Do I think it's bullshit and unacceptable that a charges $1000 for putting on a front fender, front wheel and bars? Yup! At $1000 setup fee, they are making an easy $900 on 2 hours max of work from a guy they probably only pay $15 per hour. Most dealers aren't doing anything to help this sport to be more affordable for the average Joe.
But honestly the sport is headed no where so why would they give a shit! They sell far more utv’s and rzrs and offroad redneck go...
But honestly the sport is headed no where so why would they give a shit!

They sell far more utv’s and rzrs and offroad redneck go karts every year than they do dirtbikes ill gaurentee you that, and those dudes dont bitch at all they sre just happy to get there get in there 4wd go kart and lose 10k on the unit as soon as they roll it onto their gooseneck!

Thats no shit, every dealer ive ever dealt with i always ask what their besg selling units are and its either utvs or boat related or jet skis.
Thats because you guys want them to make nothing on the sale and then complain anyway, have no loyalty if the next bike is $100 cheaper down the street, and buy your parts online. Then when you do have an issue you cannot resolve, you want them to drop everything and "work you in" for a repair because you have a race that weekend.

The UTV guys you are calling rednecks don't do that garbage and appreciate they have a retailer that helps them have a blast and get outside doing cool shit. Or maybe you are jealous of these "rednecks" that work their ass off during the week to afford 30K UTV's and goosenecks and they dont have to complain about $100.

Some of you desperately need to understand the value of relationships and how to build those. Team Greens example in this thread is a great example of that.

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2

The Shop

mb60
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GRAPEVINE, TX, USA
2/3/2021 10:37am
mb60 wrote:
Freight fees are about 250 normally. Anything over that dealer is making money.
philG wrote:
And we cant have dealers making money,can we.
No that's where they can make money. But like prep don't act like it's 700 dollars to ship a crate.
1
Austin_Rankin
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Georgetown, KY, USA
2/3/2021 10:37am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Our margins on equipment is not much higher than 20%. In my opinion you can't really compare HVAC equipment to bikes anyways based on the fact...
Our margins on equipment is not much higher than 20%. In my opinion you can't really compare HVAC equipment to bikes anyways based on the fact that HVAC is much more of a need than a luxury like bikes. Do I want my dealer to be around and profitable? Absolutely! Do I think it's bullshit and unacceptable that a charges $1000 for putting on a front fender, front wheel and bars? Yup! At $1000 setup fee, they are making an easy $900 on 2 hours max of work from a guy they probably only pay $15 per hour. Most dealers aren't doing anything to help this sport to be more affordable for the average Joe.
But honestly the sport is headed no where so why would they give a shit! They sell far more utv’s and rzrs and offroad redneck go...
But honestly the sport is headed no where so why would they give a shit!

They sell far more utv’s and rzrs and offroad redneck go karts every year than they do dirtbikes ill gaurentee you that, and those dudes dont bitch at all they sre just happy to get there get in there 4wd go kart and lose 10k on the unit as soon as they roll it onto their gooseneck!

Thats no shit, every dealer ive ever dealt with i always ask what their besg selling units are and its either utvs or boat related or jet skis.
Thats because you guys want them to make nothing on the sale and then complain anyway, have no loyalty if the next bike is $100 cheaper...
Thats because you guys want them to make nothing on the sale and then complain anyway, have no loyalty if the next bike is $100 cheaper down the street, and buy your parts online. Then when you do have an issue you cannot resolve, you want them to drop everything and "work you in" for a repair because you have a race that weekend.

The UTV guys you are calling rednecks don't do that garbage and appreciate they have a retailer that helps them have a blast and get outside doing cool shit. Or maybe you are jealous of these "rednecks" that work their ass off during the week to afford 30K UTV's and goosenecks and they dont have to complain about $100.

Some of you desperately need to understand the value of relationships and how to build those. Team Greens example in this thread is a great example of that.

Hell yea bro thats what im saying!!!
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Titan1.
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Lehi, UT, USA
2/3/2021 10:39am
skeef wrote:
Working for multiple dealers on the west coast. Yes, we get charged for shipping thus you get charged for shipping. I would say the single OEM...
Working for multiple dealers on the west coast. Yes, we get charged for shipping thus you get charged for shipping. I would say the single OEM specific stores normally can waive these costs because of their size and overhead.

I get you guys want the best deals on your bikes but why we have a thread every other week on "BS dealer fees" is beyond me. Expect to pay a thousand over sticker. Think about where you shop, who you're giving your money too. Is it a dealer that supports your local tracks and race series. This is an ecosystem, without dealers most of these tracks wouldn't have sponsorship money. Trust me they can not surive off tack fees alone... Without dealers you can't buy bikes. The cost of OEM licensing is worth more than the building and it's entire staff.
Without dealers we'd just buy straight from the manufacturer...sounds like a win to me.

And if threads about "BS dealer fees" are popping up on here every other week...then maybe the industry should take note, and stop charging them?
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GrapeApe
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Mc Kinney, TX, USA
2/3/2021 10:44am
It has been a while since I have bought new from a dealer, but I always simply negotiate the OTD price and tell them they can apply it however they want. Getting caught up in this fee or that fee would make me crazy. I don't even care if there's a prep fee in there even though I picked it up in the crate, as long as I'm happy with the final number.
6
Titan1.
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Lehi, UT, USA
2/3/2021 10:45am
Titan1. wrote:
Here is where I’m coming from on this, the ONLY reason I will ever use a dealer is to buy a bike, that’s it, I won’t...
Here is where I’m coming from on this, the ONLY reason I will ever use a dealer is to buy a bike, that’s it, I won’t step foot in a dealer until Im ready to buy another bike (and I honestly look forward to the day I can just buy a bike online directly from the manufacturer and have it delivered to my house) so all other “value” dealers can claim to provide aren’t factors in my decision....so buying a bike is all about price to me....because that is literally all I need the dealer for (selling the bike).

So I’m not going to pay more than I have to, just because dealers have low margins (and they might) and are good guys (and they probably are)...if you all want to pay extra to the dealer for those reasons, go for it...but I shop around, find the dealer willing to sell me a bike for the lowest OTD price and that is where I buy the bike from.
So what you are saying is, you'd rather pay MSRP plus whatever freight and other fees buying directly from the manufacturer? 'I shop around, find the...
So what you are saying is, you'd rather pay MSRP plus whatever freight and other fees buying directly from the manufacturer?

'I shop around, find the dealer willing to sell me a bike for the lowest OTD price' You do understand with your train of thought that would no longer be an option right?

And just cut out the middle man, yes. That would be preferred.
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philG
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GB
2/3/2021 10:45am
mb60 wrote:
Freight fees are about 250 normally. Anything over that dealer is making money.
philG wrote:
And we cant have dealers making money,can we.
mb60 wrote:
No that's where they can make money. But like prep don't act like it's 700 dollars to ship a crate.
The shipping fee is set by the manufacturer.. the dealer has no say in it, same as he has no say in having to spend $100,000 on a showroom refit to new 'corporate' standards even though there is nothing wrong with the old one, and then you have to buy the stuff off THEM even though you can buy the same thing for half the price direct.

When i used to work in the motor trade in the 90's , it was £435 to get a car to the dealer from the factory, and it was 8 miles as the crow flew. The same £435 would get it anywhere in the UK... and guess what ..even if we went to fetch one, which we did , we still had to pay the £435. .

Everyone who thinks its easy, and they are getting ripped off should go and work in a dealers for a week, just to see, then shut the fuck up. Its a mugs game.
10
2/3/2021 10:48am
skeef wrote:
Working for multiple dealers on the west coast. Yes, we get charged for shipping thus you get charged for shipping. I would say the single OEM...
Working for multiple dealers on the west coast. Yes, we get charged for shipping thus you get charged for shipping. I would say the single OEM specific stores normally can waive these costs because of their size and overhead.

I get you guys want the best deals on your bikes but why we have a thread every other week on "BS dealer fees" is beyond me. Expect to pay a thousand over sticker. Think about where you shop, who you're giving your money too. Is it a dealer that supports your local tracks and race series. This is an ecosystem, without dealers most of these tracks wouldn't have sponsorship money. Trust me they can not surive off tack fees alone... Without dealers you can't buy bikes. The cost of OEM licensing is worth more than the building and it's entire staff.
Titan1. wrote:
Without dealers we'd just buy straight from the manufacturer...sounds like a win to me. And if threads about "BS dealer fees" are popping up on here...
Without dealers we'd just buy straight from the manufacturer...sounds like a win to me.

And if threads about "BS dealer fees" are popping up on here every other week...then maybe the industry should take note, and stop charging them?
Do you think the shipping companies do it for free? The Rail companies do it for free? The trucking companies do it for free? The oems are simply just passing the cost along.

Or would you sleep better if a the MSRP wasnt 9399 for a new 450 and was a clean 10,000 but you didnt get charged the fee?

Shipping and transportation costs are in everything. Why is it that oems are transparent and your mad bro?

lol
8
1
Titan1.
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Lehi, UT, USA
2/3/2021 10:53am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Our margins on equipment is not much higher than 20%. In my opinion you can't really compare HVAC equipment to bikes anyways based on the fact...
Our margins on equipment is not much higher than 20%. In my opinion you can't really compare HVAC equipment to bikes anyways based on the fact that HVAC is much more of a need than a luxury like bikes. Do I want my dealer to be around and profitable? Absolutely! Do I think it's bullshit and unacceptable that a charges $1000 for putting on a front fender, front wheel and bars? Yup! At $1000 setup fee, they are making an easy $900 on 2 hours max of work from a guy they probably only pay $15 per hour. Most dealers aren't doing anything to help this sport to be more affordable for the average Joe.
But honestly the sport is headed no where so why would they give a shit! They sell far more utv’s and rzrs and offroad redneck go...
But honestly the sport is headed no where so why would they give a shit!

They sell far more utv’s and rzrs and offroad redneck go karts every year than they do dirtbikes ill gaurentee you that, and those dudes dont bitch at all they sre just happy to get there get in there 4wd go kart and lose 10k on the unit as soon as they roll it onto their gooseneck!

Thats no shit, every dealer ive ever dealt with i always ask what their besg selling units are and its either utvs or boat related or jet skis.
Thats because you guys want them to make nothing on the sale and then complain anyway, have no loyalty if the next bike is $100 cheaper...
Thats because you guys want them to make nothing on the sale and then complain anyway, have no loyalty if the next bike is $100 cheaper down the street, and buy your parts online. Then when you do have an issue you cannot resolve, you want them to drop everything and "work you in" for a repair because you have a race that weekend.

The UTV guys you are calling rednecks don't do that garbage and appreciate they have a retailer that helps them have a blast and get outside doing cool shit. Or maybe you are jealous of these "rednecks" that work their ass off during the week to afford 30K UTV's and goosenecks and they dont have to complain about $100.

Some of you desperately need to understand the value of relationships and how to build those. Team Greens example in this thread is a great example of that.

I don't want, or need, a relationship with a dealer that is more expensive, slower, and has nothing in stock...parts are cheaper online, and there are a number of shops around that do service faster and cheaper than a dealer.

Gone are the days when the only place to get parts and service was the local dealer...back then, it was important to have a good relationship with them so they'd take good care of you. Not any more! Dealers need to realize this and adjust their model...or keep complaining about their customers.
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7
RonJon
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386
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Location
Torquay, AU
2/3/2021 10:53am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Our margins on equipment is not much higher than 20%. In my opinion you can't really compare HVAC equipment to bikes anyways based on the fact...
Our margins on equipment is not much higher than 20%. In my opinion you can't really compare HVAC equipment to bikes anyways based on the fact that HVAC is much more of a need than a luxury like bikes. Do I want my dealer to be around and profitable? Absolutely! Do I think it's bullshit and unacceptable that a charges $1000 for putting on a front fender, front wheel and bars? Yup! At $1000 setup fee, they are making an easy $900 on 2 hours max of work from a guy they probably only pay $15 per hour. Most dealers aren't doing anything to help this sport to be more affordable for the average Joe.
But honestly the sport is headed no where so why would they give a shit! They sell far more utv’s and rzrs and offroad redneck go...
But honestly the sport is headed no where so why would they give a shit!

They sell far more utv’s and rzrs and offroad redneck go karts every year than they do dirtbikes ill gaurentee you that, and those dudes dont bitch at all they sre just happy to get there get in there 4wd go kart and lose 10k on the unit as soon as they roll it onto their gooseneck!

Thats no shit, every dealer ive ever dealt with i always ask what their besg selling units are and its either utvs or boat related or jet skis.
Thats because you guys want them to make nothing on the sale and then complain anyway, have no loyalty if the next bike is $100 cheaper...
Thats because you guys want them to make nothing on the sale and then complain anyway, have no loyalty if the next bike is $100 cheaper down the street, and buy your parts online. Then when you do have an issue you cannot resolve, you want them to drop everything and "work you in" for a repair because you have a race that weekend.

The UTV guys you are calling rednecks don't do that garbage and appreciate they have a retailer that helps them have a blast and get outside doing cool shit. Or maybe you are jealous of these "rednecks" that work their ass off during the week to afford 30K UTV's and goosenecks and they dont have to complain about $100.

Some of you desperately need to understand the value of relationships and how to build those. Team Greens example in this thread is a great example of that.

When you walk into a dealer and the guy trying to sell you a bike doesn't know dick about what he's trying to sell you, you're right I have no loyalty. Dealers home in florida are the worst. I literally had a guy try to sell me on a YZ250F because it had a monster claw on it.
skeef
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USA
Fantasy
2/3/2021 11:10am
skeef wrote:
Working for multiple dealers on the west coast. Yes, we get charged for shipping thus you get charged for shipping. I would say the single OEM...
Working for multiple dealers on the west coast. Yes, we get charged for shipping thus you get charged for shipping. I would say the single OEM specific stores normally can waive these costs because of their size and overhead.

I get you guys want the best deals on your bikes but why we have a thread every other week on "BS dealer fees" is beyond me. Expect to pay a thousand over sticker. Think about where you shop, who you're giving your money too. Is it a dealer that supports your local tracks and race series. This is an ecosystem, without dealers most of these tracks wouldn't have sponsorship money. Trust me they can not surive off tack fees alone... Without dealers you can't buy bikes. The cost of OEM licensing is worth more than the building and it's entire staff.
Titan1. wrote:
Without dealers we'd just buy straight from the manufacturer...sounds like a win to me. And if threads about "BS dealer fees" are popping up on here...
Without dealers we'd just buy straight from the manufacturer...sounds like a win to me.

And if threads about "BS dealer fees" are popping up on here every other week...then maybe the industry should take note, and stop charging them?
Read the rest of my post about what happens with out dealers. Did you read anything at all? OEM's won't ever sell to the public. It was be an absolute nightmare. Go ahead and file a complaint with your favorite OEM and ask them to stop charging destination charges, I'm sure they will listen. I'm sure they will happily pay for your bike to sit in a crate traveling on an Cargo ship then get plopped onto an 18 wheeler for hundreds of miles. All free of charge to you <3
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Austin_Rankin
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1119
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Georgetown, KY, USA
2/3/2021 11:16am
My pops said u used to have to order husqvarnas and they would be delivered to your doorstep and you would build them as a kit (kind of like rc buggys and truggys) and then you would ride them, maybe thats how it should be again since we have so many complainers in here,


Ahhh just f-n with ya, i think dealers are a good thing as long as they are bending the people over enough to where they dont notice!

Doesnt that make any cents? No okay well the will bend you over untill they do, cause they take their REAL EYES and Realize the sport is going no where fast! Except into people with good credit scores hands!

Not cash!

The sport wont accell this way. It hit its peak 15-20 years ago, good luck fellas!
5
philG
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GB
2/3/2021 11:17am
RonJon wrote:
When you walk into a dealer and the guy trying to sell you a bike doesn't know dick about what he's trying to sell you, you're...
When you walk into a dealer and the guy trying to sell you a bike doesn't know dick about what he's trying to sell you, you're right I have no loyalty. Dealers home in florida are the worst. I literally had a guy try to sell me on a YZ250F because it had a monster claw on it.
He will be in that period between the euphoria of selling his first bike, and the euphoria of selling his last and never having to do it again.

If there was money in it, you might get an enthusiastic and knowledgeable guy, but there isnt , so you are stuck with guys who think working in a bike dealers is cool, until it isnt.


Robbirob25
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Fort Wayne, IN, USA
2/3/2021 11:20am
Titan1. wrote:
Or are they just junk fees? Meaning, does the manufacturer really charge the dealer a set fee for every bike they get in the dealer...or is...
Or are they just junk fees?

Meaning, does the manufacturer really charge the dealer a set fee for every bike they get in the dealer...or is that just another fee (like a document prep fee) that dealers charge, because they can?
I had to pay fees as a dealer... A shipping company delivered the bikes. Not Honda. So someone had to pay them. Go buy a new truck. The trucking company is not owned by the manufacturer. The drivers, and everyone else needs paid.
Do some dealers add a percentage? Most likely. Because they know someone is going to want to negotiate that fee as well...
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resetjet
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Tampa, FL, USA
2/3/2021 11:30am
Freight is real. Its a way to advertise lower then add. Athough dealers want big money, they have nothing to sell and still must keep the lights on.
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Spooner
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Kansas City, MO, USA
2/3/2021 11:30am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
I have to laugh at the prep charge to “build” the bike. You uncrate the bike with a drill and that takes 5 minutes maximum if...
I have to laugh at the prep charge to “build” the bike. You uncrate the bike with a drill and that takes 5 minutes maximum if you take your time. Then you throw on the bars, front fender and front wheel, check coolant and oil and finish off with checking some nuts and bolts. Two hours max(if the mechanic is slow) and shops charge $400-$1000 for this “prep” for each bike. That’s outrageous. Most shops charge $95 per hour and only pay the mechanic $15-$20 per hour.
Do you think the crate magically appears in front of the tech? Most shops it would take at minimum 30 minutes to get the crate but many shops keep them in offsite storage. Then you have to deal with carting it all away. Just an example of how things are more complicated and time consuming then you think.
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APLMAN99
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Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
2/3/2021 11:41am
mattyhamz2 wrote:
In the case of KTM, it was posted in a thread a few days ago that the dealer makes $2k on a 2020 450SX at MSRP...
In the case of KTM, it was posted in a thread a few days ago that the dealer makes $2k on a 2020 450SX at MSRP before any fees were added on.

I manage an HVAC supply store.
Great example. What margin do you make in hot water heaters and AC units? I would imagine far better than 10-20% regardless of what you call...
Great example. What margin do you make in hot water heaters and AC units? I would imagine far better than 10-20% regardless of what you call it. Fee or whatever. Doc fees are completely different, but freight and setup is not unfair. It just amazes me how many people don’t want dealers to be profitable, but are fine with their industry operating on a 50-100% GP. Half the time, they don’t even know their industry business model which is even more concerning. Don’t turn this around on parts either, as dealers are lucky to make 40% on parts and accessories as an average.
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Our margins on equipment is not much higher than 20%. In my opinion you can't really compare HVAC equipment to bikes anyways based on the fact...
Our margins on equipment is not much higher than 20%. In my opinion you can't really compare HVAC equipment to bikes anyways based on the fact that HVAC is much more of a need than a luxury like bikes. Do I want my dealer to be around and profitable? Absolutely! Do I think it's bullshit and unacceptable that a charges $1000 for putting on a front fender, front wheel and bars? Yup! At $1000 setup fee, they are making an easy $900 on 2 hours max of work from a guy they probably only pay $15 per hour. Most dealers aren't doing anything to help this sport to be more affordable for the average Joe.
Food is a MUCH bigger need and grocery stores work on some of the lowest overall margins that you can imagine.....

So the "need" vs "want" isn't really a valid issue.

Let's just say that the dealer spends $8K for a bike that he hopes that he can sell for $10K. Call it 25% mark up, 20 % margin, whatever angle you choose.

As an HVAC guy, if you are buying $8K in parts you are probably going to charge about $12-$15K for those parts, correct? Maybe a little bit more or less depending on the product mix, obviously, but most hardware type of stuff I've seen from working as a manager at a Big Box hardware store is marked up at least 50%, sometimes MUCH more. Most actual HVAC companies sure seem to mark up more than the retail stores do, in my experience.

Personally I think that MOST dealers are a lot like a local HVAC supply store. Sure, you may be able to get some of your stuff cheaper through Home Depot or Lowe's, but there are specialty items that those places just don't carry and won't ever. When the local HVAC store goes out of business, that doesn't mean that Lowe's or Home Depot will carry those specialty items, it will mean that you will have to search harder to find it or order it from someone who may ship you everything wrong and then deal with shipping it back, etc.

Let's put it this way, if Walmart suddenly decided to start selling Alpinestars boots, Bell Helmets, and Hinson clutches in their stores for 10-20% less than a local dealer, it wouldn't make me want to rush out and get those things from Walmart because there are still TONS of things that Walmart just will never stock that the local dealer will.

But then again, even as bad as some dealers can be our 2 local ones that are left always seem to have the basics on hand, even if some model-specific parts can't really be stocked and sat on for years at a time.
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1
Two Stroke
Posts
51
Joined
7/5/2011
Location
Pine Bluff, AR, USA
2/3/2021 11:54am
Manufacturers charge freight on motorcycles, atv's and utvs. Freight is based on the weight and size of the unit. Full size dirt bikes are usually around $400-500, atv's are around $500-600 and utvs are around $750-1000. Each manufacturer charges the dealer. The dealer has to unload the unit, remove it from the crate and assemble it, put oil and gas in it and make sure everything works properly. If a tech/assembler is good he can do a mx bike in about an hour. The dealer has to pay that guy, buy the gas and oil to put in it, have a facility do work in, have insurance to protect the bikes, accessories, building, and buy liability insurance to protect him/herself in case one of his employees makes a mistake or some customer who got a great deal gets mad and sues because he didn't get his parts fast enough. Of course he has to pay for utilities like electricity, gas, phone and internet. All of those costs add up and with the low margins some manufactures put on their stuff, it's pretty had to make a profit. The in some state they have to put up with governments that make it hard to do business and tell them to lock it down during Covid. If a dealer does a good job, keeps his customers and manufacturers happy he can make a good living otherwise he's likely to be gone.

As to buying it directly from the manufacturer, who would take care of the problems that are in that new bike when it is uncrated? Who would do the repairs under warranty? Maybe there are a lot of people here that wouldn't care or could do the repairs but what about all the street bike, atv and utv customers? mx bikes are a very small part of most dealers sales and profits and usually there because the principal (owner) likes dirt bikes. They could make a lot more money using the space to sell other products. Every square foot of space is supposed to have a return on capital, if it's not measuring up, that space needs to be changed to some other product.

Have fun, if you can buy your dirt bike from someone that's there for you, give them a change when you needs parts or accessories. When your bike won't run right or it grenades you may wish they were there next year to help you out.

Enjoy the ride.
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yz133rider
Posts
5029
Joined
8/1/2013
Location
Avondale, PA, USA
2/3/2021 12:03pm
Imagine if Walmart advertised a loaf of bread for 1.99. And then when your at the register they add $1.00 bagging fee, $1.00 shopping cart wrangler fee, $1.00 receipt production fee, $1.00, plus 14 other fees.

That’s what buying bikes is like.

Advertised the bikes for $5999 then when it comes time to actually pay its $7877.

Just advertise the actual price - plus tax if applicable - nothing else.


I’ve found dealers who operate that way, and that’s who I do business with.

The retail plus anal lube fee, plus doc fee, plus prep fee, plus plus plus can suck a fat one.
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1
soggy
Posts
8754
Joined
12/3/2018
Location
USA
2/3/2021 12:11pm
mattyhamz2 wrote:
Our margins on equipment is not much higher than 20%. In my opinion you can't really compare HVAC equipment to bikes anyways based on the fact...
Our margins on equipment is not much higher than 20%. In my opinion you can't really compare HVAC equipment to bikes anyways based on the fact that HVAC is much more of a need than a luxury like bikes. Do I want my dealer to be around and profitable? Absolutely! Do I think it's bullshit and unacceptable that a charges $1000 for putting on a front fender, front wheel and bars? Yup! At $1000 setup fee, they are making an easy $900 on 2 hours max of work from a guy they probably only pay $15 per hour. Most dealers aren't doing anything to help this sport to be more affordable for the average Joe.
That setup fee covers more then just the tech’s time setting up your bike. It helps pay other employees as well. And it’s not like that guy is doing these setups all day everyday. He may do one a week and that fee helps cover the salaries when there aren’t bikes flying out the door
endurox
Posts
2092
Joined
3/22/2014
Location
Garden City, ID, USA
2/3/2021 12:11pm
I think my cars had a freight fee too lately.
1695$ freight fee on a Ford Transit.

endurox
Posts
2092
Joined
3/22/2014
Location
Garden City, ID, USA
2/3/2021 12:23pm
mxnick wrote:
Every oem charges freight to the dealer, it’s normally around $600 for a full size bike. Occasionally OEM will give free freight, but it’s not common...
Every oem charges freight to the dealer, it’s normally around $600 for a full size bike. Occasionally OEM will give free freight, but it’s not common. This is a real actual invoiced line item to the dealers. Most dealers will mark it up a little bit, but not much.

Common is also a prep fee, that’s the cost to take bike out of crate, build it and throw away the crate material. Takes an hour to three depending on the bike. But there is a real cost to this, usually just labor and the cost to dispose of the crate.

Doc fees are pure profit to the dealer, but usually the hardest to waive. There is a cost to having the girls in the back office handle that stuff, but again, it’s mostly just hourly wages or salary.
mattyhamz2 wrote:
I have to laugh at the prep charge to “build” the bike. You uncrate the bike with a drill and that takes 5 minutes maximum if...
I have to laugh at the prep charge to “build” the bike. You uncrate the bike with a drill and that takes 5 minutes maximum if you take your time. Then you throw on the bars, front fender and front wheel, check coolant and oil and finish off with checking some nuts and bolts. Two hours max(if the mechanic is slow) and shops charge $400-$1000 for this “prep” for each bike. That’s outrageous. Most shops charge $95 per hour and only pay the mechanic $15-$20 per hour.
Shop rates are alot higher than 95$. Costs a lot of money to run a motorcycle shop properly. Every racer wants parts at cost, bike at cost etc. I worked at a motorcycle dealer for well over 2 decades. Where a dealer makes money is having a good service shop. Especially if your clientele use their bikes everyday for transportation. A good PDI person will spend time looking over the bike for any shipping damage as well as other issues. Verifying the VIN, writing down DOT numbers from the tires just to name a few. So when a customer brings his high dollar Ducati for example, do you want the experienced mechanic that gets paid 35$ an hour or the new guy who gets 15$ an hours to change tires and balance?
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Titan1.
Posts
73
Joined
1/14/2021
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
2/3/2021 12:25pm
yz133rider wrote:
Imagine if Walmart advertised a loaf of bread for 1.99. And then when your at the register they add $1.00 bagging fee, $1.00 shopping cart wrangler...
Imagine if Walmart advertised a loaf of bread for 1.99. And then when your at the register they add $1.00 bagging fee, $1.00 shopping cart wrangler fee, $1.00 receipt production fee, $1.00, plus 14 other fees.

That’s what buying bikes is like.

Advertised the bikes for $5999 then when it comes time to actually pay its $7877.

Just advertise the actual price - plus tax if applicable - nothing else.


I’ve found dealers who operate that way, and that’s who I do business with.

The retail plus anal lube fee, plus doc fee, plus prep fee, plus plus plus can suck a fat one.
Amen to that!
EngIceDave
Posts
2431
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Merritt Island, FL, USA
2/3/2021 12:30pm
Support your local dealers

You nickel and dime dealer charges, on top of complaining about the price itself (or that you have to buy a four stroke), then you nickel and dime the parts and accessories, while you actually just order it off of the internet anyway

Then you complain when they go out of business
7
3
mxnick
Posts
1010
Joined
12/4/2007
Location
Nor Cal, CA, USA
2/3/2021 1:09pm
mb60 wrote:
Freight fees are about 250 normally. Anything over that dealer is making money.
All depends on the OEM. I have worked for one, and it was $550 when I left, and I think it went up. It also depends on the size of the bike, but $250 is very, very low.
APLMAN99
Posts
12499
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
2/3/2021 1:19pm
yz133rider wrote:
Imagine if Walmart advertised a loaf of bread for 1.99. And then when your at the register they add $1.00 bagging fee, $1.00 shopping cart wrangler...
Imagine if Walmart advertised a loaf of bread for 1.99. And then when your at the register they add $1.00 bagging fee, $1.00 shopping cart wrangler fee, $1.00 receipt production fee, $1.00, plus 14 other fees.

That’s what buying bikes is like.

Advertised the bikes for $5999 then when it comes time to actually pay its $7877.

Just advertise the actual price - plus tax if applicable - nothing else.


I’ve found dealers who operate that way, and that’s who I do business with.

The retail plus anal lube fee, plus doc fee, plus prep fee, plus plus plus can suck a fat one.
Walmart would likely start doing that if everyone brought their items to the cashier than started peppering them with the "What's your bottom dollar on this loaf of bread? I'm paying cash, can I get a discount? How much is your invoice on this load of bread? I'll pay you .5% over cost, nothing more!"...........

Most people say that they just want a set price on a car, but very few of them actually mean that. You may be one of the few, but you are very much in the minority.

New cars always have the price on them, but virtually no one ever offers to pay that listed price and be on their way.

And I'm not talking about "other fees", our stores here don't list the total cost of the item including tax, and neither do cars. Same with licensing fees, because those can vary depending on where the buyer lives not on where they actually purchase.

But the Monroney sticker lists the MSRP and the Freight charge, and most buyers absolutely ignore that even though 90% of new car dealers will be more than happy to accept that as the purchase price for a new vehicle.
3
5
skeef
Posts
1448
Joined
7/18/2018
Location
USA
Fantasy
2/3/2021 1:30pm
yz133rider wrote:
Imagine if Walmart advertised a loaf of bread for 1.99. And then when your at the register they add $1.00 bagging fee, $1.00 shopping cart wrangler...
Imagine if Walmart advertised a loaf of bread for 1.99. And then when your at the register they add $1.00 bagging fee, $1.00 shopping cart wrangler fee, $1.00 receipt production fee, $1.00, plus 14 other fees.

That’s what buying bikes is like.

Advertised the bikes for $5999 then when it comes time to actually pay its $7877.

Just advertise the actual price - plus tax if applicable - nothing else.


I’ve found dealers who operate that way, and that’s who I do business with.

The retail plus anal lube fee, plus doc fee, plus prep fee, plus plus plus can suck a fat one.
That's a rudimentary way to think look at it. If only that would work.. that would be great. The problem is large markets can't opperate that way.

If dealer A had a yz250f at $8500 OTD online and Dealer B saw that and changed it their price to $8499 OTD where is billy going to go buy the bike? Dealer B right. People will drop their pants for whomever they believe is giving them the best deal. The pricing is modeled to get people in the store. There is so much more that goes into it. It sucks that consumers think it is a way to "F" them in the "A" but really it's just cutting throats between competing dealers.
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