Moto Scaling Back

rohleder644
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I’ve often wondered, what does it look like if our already small sport is scaled back? Seems like every few months there’s a “energy drink company pulling out” thread. The discussion always goes to how the sport is SOL without energy drink dollars. There’d be a different landscape for sure, but would it really be the end of the world for you and I? No semis, no training facilities, even fewer paying rides, all these suck for the industry. Coverage changes for sure. But it’s 2021. We’re not going back to the days of calling the results hotline and waiting for the semi-annual Cycle News. But what does it mean for the average rider?
Obviously the high dollar amateur national life gets scaled way back to follow suit. But kids have been pulled out of public school to chase the elusive pro career since well before Monster and Red Bull.
Does bike technology revert to twin shocks and *gasp* 2-strokes? Do these local track owners making millions a year decide to close up shop? Do the flavor of the week goggle companies close up shop and we’re relegated to the few quality options that have always been around?

I don’t believe I enjoy anything about the industry more now than I did in 1993. I was 5 then, so that probably plays in to it some. I know I’m a short sighted dumbass. So I guess that’s the real question. What are the tangible negatives you and I will feel if/when the energy drink companies pull out and moto plummets back to the dark ages of box vans and working class heroes?
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BobPA
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1/3/2021 6:14am
Why in the world would twin shocks come back?
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rohleder644
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1/3/2021 6:21am Edited Date/Time 1/3/2021 6:23am
BobPA wrote:
Why in the world would twin shocks come back?
They wouldn’t, which was kind of my point. We’re not suddenly putting all these improvements back in the box if the big dollars scurry away from pro racing. All these killer advancements in bike technology that pro racing has driven, they’re not going away for you and I even if the pro racing dwindles. I really really enjoy riding my dirtbike in the woods and at local tracks. I even used to race once upon a time and plan to start back up once my kids get more in to it. What about the hobby I love am I going to be missing out on if the pro racing side of things takes a shit?

Just to add, I hope the sport grows and grows. The more people making an actual living from what I believe to be the coolest sport ever imagined, the better. Just some Sunday morning discussion while I watch my 7 year old struggle through trying to change a tire on her 50.
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FWYT
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1/3/2021 6:37am Edited Date/Time 1/3/2021 10:47pm
Track owners make millions?

But really, even if all the semis and training camps went away, you would still have massive turnouts for GNCC events and stuff like that. There would still be people that just absolutely haul ass and smoke everybody that everyone else would try and keep up with. And it would still be a shitload of fun.

There are soooo many people out there who ride dirt bikes that have no idea who Eli Tomac is and don't give a damn if their "kit" matches.
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endurox
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1/3/2021 7:00am
SX needs a new business plan. As stated, GNCC, extreme enduro and other racing is thriving. SX is holding on to a thread provided by the energy drinks. HRC is paying for it's own team. That gets very expensive in the advertising column.
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The Shop

kage173
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1/3/2021 7:17am
People need to make a distinction between professional mx/sx and amateur racing. They don't necessarily reflect one another. I always see threads asking how to grow the sport and everybody has recommendations for AMA, Feld and DC. Nobody talks about the local scene. Those things are very different and they have very different driving forces.

COVID aside, SX isn't in the dire straits everyone says it is. I don't think it disappears without the energy drinks. It didn't go away when cigarretes and beer left. And anyway, who says the energy drinks are going anywhere? Monster has more riders now than it ever has.
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kage173
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endurox wrote:
SX needs a new business plan. As stated, GNCC, extreme enduro and other racing is thriving. SX is holding on to a thread provided by the...
SX needs a new business plan. As stated, GNCC, extreme enduro and other racing is thriving. SX is holding on to a thread provided by the energy drinks. HRC is paying for it's own team. That gets very expensive in the advertising column.
SX is 100X bigger than GNCC. GNCC wishes it had the business plan that SX does.
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BikePilot
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1/3/2021 7:27am
Imo the spectator side is what's in jepordy and is a very minor aspect of the sport. The core of the sport is the weekend racer and families out camping and riding together. That's stronger than it's ever been. Moto was awesome before energy drinks were a thing, maybe more awesome actually. A bit of back to basics wouldn't hurt my feelings at all.
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rucka356
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1/3/2021 7:35am
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Larry450
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1/3/2021 7:43am Edited Date/Time 1/3/2021 7:44am
Scaled back sx race would be something like euro sx or arenacross race. Because that is what they are.
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walent215
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1/3/2021 7:51am
You know the interesting thing is the simple answer has always been right in front of all of us.

Re: AMA PRO SX/MX

Union needs to be formed
Racers then collectively boycott racing until the union and Feld/AMA come to an agreement to spread the wealth among the racers. Until that happens said Pros can race local events / overseas etc . Which would actually drive another element as many local or non-mainstream venues would see an increased economy in the meantime. Not just doom/ gloom because SX /MX wasn’t at the forefront. The top guys would still be rich and the “ Privateers “ would arguably make more $ not traveling and incurring the normal expenses from the SX /MX schedule . If the Pro crowd was headlining more of the Swapmoto, BIG 6 ( NGPC ) , Worcs, GNCC type events that would undoubtedly increase that particular economy . Obviously there’s a ton more involved than these “ opinions” of mine but this scenario wouldn’t be as traumatic as I’m sure many believe.

Re: Amateur Moto

There will always be plenty of enthusiasts driving our small , niche sport. Could we see the demise of industry companies etc? Of course, just as we’ve seen over the years through strong AND weak economical seasons!

C-19 didn’t kill AMA SX/MX
C-19 actually drove our local moto economy upwards

If our current economic climate is any indicator , C-19 driven , moto will survive just fine.
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LungButter
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1/3/2021 7:52am
kage173 wrote:
SX is 100X bigger than GNCC. GNCC wishes it had the business plan that SX does.
I bet GNCC made a bigger profit this year....
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DC
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1/3/2021 7:58am
endurox wrote:
SX needs a new business plan. As stated, GNCC, extreme enduro and other racing is thriving. SX is holding on to a thread provided by the...
SX needs a new business plan. As stated, GNCC, extreme enduro and other racing is thriving. SX is holding on to a thread provided by the energy drinks. HRC is paying for it's own team. That gets very expensive in the advertising column.
kage173 wrote:
SX is 100X bigger than GNCC. GNCC wishes it had the business plan that SX does.
GNCC just had a record year for rider attendance, despite COVID-19. I think they're doing okay with their business plan.

DC
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mx510
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1/3/2021 8:26am
DC wrote:
GNCC just had a record year for rider attendance, despite COVID-19. I think they're doing okay with their business plan.

DC
Racer X
GNCC needs to go west. How. can anything be called a national title if it doesn't cover the country, that goes for WORCS and BIG 6 etc as well.
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DC
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1/3/2021 8:30am
DC wrote:
GNCC just had a record year for rider attendance, despite COVID-19. I think they're doing okay with their business plan.

DC
Racer X
mx510 wrote:
GNCC needs to go west. How. can anything be called a national title if it doesn't cover the country, that goes for WORCS and BIG 6...
GNCC needs to go west. How. can anything be called a national title if it doesn't cover the country, that goes for WORCS and BIG 6 etc as well.
Off-road racing doesn't have the same support as SX/MX so a nationwide series for almost entirely amateur participants doesn't work as well as people might think, as National Enduro and National Hare Scrambles have found out over the years.

DC
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mxb2
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1/3/2021 8:37am
walent215 wrote:
You know the interesting thing is the simple answer has always been right in front of all of us. Re: AMA PRO SX/MX Union needs to...
You know the interesting thing is the simple answer has always been right in front of all of us.

Re: AMA PRO SX/MX

Union needs to be formed
Racers then collectively boycott racing until the union and Feld/AMA come to an agreement to spread the wealth among the racers. Until that happens said Pros can race local events / overseas etc . Which would actually drive another element as many local or non-mainstream venues would see an increased economy in the meantime. Not just doom/ gloom because SX /MX wasn’t at the forefront. The top guys would still be rich and the “ Privateers “ would arguably make more $ not traveling and incurring the normal expenses from the SX /MX schedule . If the Pro crowd was headlining more of the Swapmoto, BIG 6 ( NGPC ) , Worcs, GNCC type events that would undoubtedly increase that particular economy . Obviously there’s a ton more involved than these “ opinions” of mine but this scenario wouldn’t be as traumatic as I’m sure many believe.

Re: Amateur Moto

There will always be plenty of enthusiasts driving our small , niche sport. Could we see the demise of industry companies etc? Of course, just as we’ve seen over the years through strong AND weak economical seasons!

C-19 didn’t kill AMA SX/MX
C-19 actually drove our local moto economy upwards

If our current economic climate is any indicator , C-19 driven , moto will survive just fine.
You should start the union.
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kage173
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1/3/2021 8:41am
endurox wrote:
SX needs a new business plan. As stated, GNCC, extreme enduro and other racing is thriving. SX is holding on to a thread provided by the...
SX needs a new business plan. As stated, GNCC, extreme enduro and other racing is thriving. SX is holding on to a thread provided by the energy drinks. HRC is paying for it's own team. That gets very expensive in the advertising column.
kage173 wrote:
SX is 100X bigger than GNCC. GNCC wishes it had the business plan that SX does.
DC wrote:
GNCC just had a record year for rider attendance, despite COVID-19. I think they're doing okay with their business plan.

DC
Racer X
Fair enough to call this out. I should have left out the second sentence. No need to denigrate GNCC or what your team does for moto. I was just pointing out that GNCC's success doesn't mean SX needs a new business plan.
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Hollywood007
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1/3/2021 8:56am
I work in this industry, and while we had a very good summer (2020) as far as bike sales, parts, and service.. however the last couple months have been very slow compared with other years. I have been in this industry 20+ years, I realize this industry depends on consumer's disposable income, and that seems to be slowing down for a lot of Americans right now.

As far as SX/MX, these events are not cheap to attend, tickets, parking fees, beverages... it can easily cost a family a few hundred bucks to attend one of these events. There seems to be a lot of questions as to TV, will it or wont it be on TV? (or will everyone just stream it illegally). Also, I haven't heard or seen any Supercross advertising, and usually my media is flooded with it this time of year.
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spimx
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1/3/2021 9:24am
"Do these local track owners making millions a year decide to close up shop? "

Is that sarcasm?
I really don't care as much about pro racing. Local tracks and racing is what matters for me
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DC
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1/3/2021 9:39am
kage173 wrote:
SX is 100X bigger than GNCC. GNCC wishes it had the business plan that SX does.
DC wrote:
GNCC just had a record year for rider attendance, despite COVID-19. I think they're doing okay with their business plan.

DC
Racer X
kage173 wrote:
Fair enough to call this out. I should have left out the second sentence. No need to denigrate GNCC or what your team does for moto...
Fair enough to call this out. I should have left out the second sentence. No need to denigrate GNCC or what your team does for moto. I was just pointing out that GNCC's success doesn't mean SX needs a new business plan.
No worries, no offense taken. But GNCC is a much different form of motorsports, more "recreational" than professional, and as a result has very different challenges than SX/MX, which have really been hurt by the lack of spectators in 2020 and for the foreseeable future...

DC
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DC
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1/3/2021 9:41am
I work in this industry, and while we had a very good summer (2020) as far as bike sales, parts, and service.. however the last couple...
I work in this industry, and while we had a very good summer (2020) as far as bike sales, parts, and service.. however the last couple months have been very slow compared with other years. I have been in this industry 20+ years, I realize this industry depends on consumer's disposable income, and that seems to be slowing down for a lot of Americans right now.

As far as SX/MX, these events are not cheap to attend, tickets, parking fees, beverages... it can easily cost a family a few hundred bucks to attend one of these events. There seems to be a lot of questions as to TV, will it or wont it be on TV? (or will everyone just stream it illegally). Also, I haven't heard or seen any Supercross advertising, and usually my media is flooded with it this time of year.
It will be on NBC and NBC Sports, as well as streaming on their platforms. The concern about TV comes in the fall when NBC Sports goes away, though it's not as dire as anyone may think--viewing habits and options are changing and the networks as we know them are destined to change soon as well.

DC
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DC
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1/3/2021 9:44am
This is a good point, and I believe the reason(s) it finally hit its stride in the '90s was because of much more and better television coverage, the rise of action sports in general, and the charisma of the King of Supercross, Jeremy McGrath. It was the perfect storm to take it all to a new level, professionally, than where we were in, say, 1992...

DC
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hypermoto
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1/3/2021 9:53am
DC wrote:
GNCC just had a record year for rider attendance, despite COVID-19. I think they're doing okay with their business plan.

DC
Racer X
mx510 wrote:
GNCC needs to go west. How. can anything be called a national title if it doesn't cover the country, that goes for WORCS and BIG 6...
GNCC needs to go west. How. can anything be called a national title if it doesn't cover the country, that goes for WORCS and BIG 6 etc as well.
DC wrote:
Off-road racing doesn't have the same support as SX/MX so a nationwide series for almost entirely amateur participants doesn't work as well as people might think...
Off-road racing doesn't have the same support as SX/MX so a nationwide series for almost entirely amateur participants doesn't work as well as people might think, as National Enduro and National Hare Scrambles have found out over the years.

DC
Racer X
But then wouldn’t the poster that said it wishes it had SX’s business plan be right? SX is national and looking into going international...
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DC
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1/3/2021 9:58am
mx510 wrote:
GNCC needs to go west. How. can anything be called a national title if it doesn't cover the country, that goes for WORCS and BIG 6...
GNCC needs to go west. How. can anything be called a national title if it doesn't cover the country, that goes for WORCS and BIG 6 etc as well.
DC wrote:
Off-road racing doesn't have the same support as SX/MX so a nationwide series for almost entirely amateur participants doesn't work as well as people might think...
Off-road racing doesn't have the same support as SX/MX so a nationwide series for almost entirely amateur participants doesn't work as well as people might think, as National Enduro and National Hare Scrambles have found out over the years.

DC
Racer X
hypermoto wrote:
But then wouldn’t the poster that said it wishes it had SX’s business plan be right? SX is national and looking into going international...
It's apples and oranges--a spectator-driven sport (SX) and a participant-driven sport (GNCC). Both have good business plans, in my opinion, but the pandemic has wreaked havoc on SX and been an unexpected boon for recreational motorsports like off-road riding and racing.

DC
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Jmicmoto13
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1/3/2021 11:53am
This is great information and back and forth. Thankful for your input and expertise DC.
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smee113
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1/3/2021 12:36pm
There are MUCH smaller motorsports than MX that manage to survive. Worst case scenario; the sponsors dry up, the big budget teams fold, and the manufacturers go away, or at least stop innovating. Interest drops to such a degree that Supercross folds up, and public motocross tracks go away or fall into disrepair.

EVEN THEN, people will buy old bikes, mod them in their own workshops, and show up to race on a poorly marked grass field. Motocross would go back to the roots on which it was founded, and in a way, I think it'd be kinda badass.

Money and "mainstream" are nice, but that's not why anyone loves this sport. The only way the sport goes away is of everyone stops caring, and at that point, literally no would care anyways.
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DB505
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1/3/2021 12:44pm
endurox wrote:
SX needs a new business plan. As stated, GNCC, extreme enduro and other racing is thriving. SX is holding on to a thread provided by the...
SX needs a new business plan. As stated, GNCC, extreme enduro and other racing is thriving. SX is holding on to a thread provided by the energy drinks. HRC is paying for it's own team. That gets very expensive in the advertising column.
kage173 wrote:
SX is 100X bigger than GNCC. GNCC wishes it had the business plan that SX does.
Apples & Oranges!
Two different things
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brocster
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1/3/2021 8:18pm
walent215 wrote:
You know the interesting thing is the simple answer has always been right in front of all of us. Re: AMA PRO SX/MX Union needs to...
You know the interesting thing is the simple answer has always been right in front of all of us.

Re: AMA PRO SX/MX

Union needs to be formed
Racers then collectively boycott racing until the union and Feld/AMA come to an agreement to spread the wealth among the racers. Until that happens said Pros can race local events / overseas etc . Which would actually drive another element as many local or non-mainstream venues would see an increased economy in the meantime. Not just doom/ gloom because SX /MX wasn’t at the forefront. The top guys would still be rich and the “ Privateers “ would arguably make more $ not traveling and incurring the normal expenses from the SX /MX schedule . If the Pro crowd was headlining more of the Swapmoto, BIG 6 ( NGPC ) , Worcs, GNCC type events that would undoubtedly increase that particular economy . Obviously there’s a ton more involved than these “ opinions” of mine but this scenario wouldn’t be as traumatic as I’m sure many believe.

Re: Amateur Moto

There will always be plenty of enthusiasts driving our small , niche sport. Could we see the demise of industry companies etc? Of course, just as we’ve seen over the years through strong AND weak economical seasons!

C-19 didn’t kill AMA SX/MX
C-19 actually drove our local moto economy upwards

If our current economic climate is any indicator , C-19 driven , moto will survive just fine.
From what I understand the top pros can’t boycott, it violates their contracts with the teams/mfg’s. Additionally, Tomac, Roczen, Barca etc. are not going to jeopardize their job for the sake of “the privateer” or “growth of the sport”. I am sure there is a way but the simple “boycott” isn’t it at his point.
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Hollywood007
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1/3/2021 9:43pm
While I do think Covid19 did drive the boom we saw in the industry over the spring and summer it certainly tapered off in the fall. In the spring and summer of 2020 people had to find new hobbies, things to spend their disposable income on, and quite a few of them were attracted to the motorcycle industry. Heading into 2021 I dont see any reason that new people would be drawn to the moto industry, and with the state of the economy fewer people have that disposable income our industry needs.

Its good that Supercross has NBC, however I know a lot of people who have cut the cord and gotten rid of cable in the last couple months (many of them moto fans), so how will rating be effected for NBCSN? We all know ratings drive advertising, media involvement, and sponsorships... all that trickles down through out the industry.

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APLMAN99
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1/3/2021 10:29pm
The only positive change that I could imagine (and don’t have a clue on HOW it could happen) is if somehow the local pro opportunities of the 70s-mid 80s returned. If guys were able to make a decent amount of money racing local events a few times a week, then have more local guys qualify for National and SX events when they came to their home town.

Can’t see the path to that becoming a reality, though......
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