Forkner and penalty

mxpro252
Profile picture for user mxpro252
Posts
458
Joined
11/15/2013
Location
USA
mxpro252 1/5/2020 1:40am
1/5/2020 1:40am
Texas Built wrote:
Now we know why he cut the track. You lose less positions if you cheat and cut the track.
I was looking at it as if where would he have likely got going again had he done the logical thing of spinning the bike around and continued on the track. I didn’t do a deep dive but seemed like at least one more rider would have got him by the time he got going and into that next corner.

And you’ve got to be kidding me if you think it’s crazy to spin a bike around 180 to get facing the right way
2
TDeath21
Profile picture for user TDeath21
Posts
6515
Joined
2/22/2011
Location
Somewhere, MO, USA
TDeath21 1/5/2020 4:00am
1/5/2020 4:00am
2 positions. I’ll take it. Is probably fair based on what he did.
14
VRR7
Profile picture for user VRR7
Posts
868
Joined
6/1/2011
Location
ZA
VRR7 1/5/2020 4:04am
1/5/2020 4:04am
Radical wrote:
He was already facing the wrong direction and it would've been difficult to turn around safely and enter where he exited. After watching the replay where...
He was already facing the wrong direction and it would've been difficult to turn around safely and enter where he exited. After watching the replay where they showed how close to the turn he was when he hit the hay bail, it appears he gained very little.
I say give him a pass on this one.
He was only facing the wrong direction because he swung the bike around so that it faced the wrong direction ! It was in fact facing in the right direction all he needed to do was to continue in the direction it was facing ie the right direction !

With no penalty this would be the go to move when stopped or fallen on the track - Swing bike around and cut to the next section of track !
9
VRR7
Profile picture for user VRR7
Posts
868
Joined
6/1/2011
Location
ZA
VRR7 1/5/2020 4:07am
1/5/2020 4:07am
crockett wrote:
What about rider safety? It was much safer for forkner to cut the track, if he had to re enter safely it could have caused a...
What about rider safety? It was much safer for forkner to cut the track, if he had to re enter safely it could have caused a big pile up?
Although it barely looked like he checked for oncoming traffic
toroP wrote:
HE WAS ON THE TRACK. He didn’t have to re-enter. He cut the track because it was easier than dealing with his mistake.
Agreed ^^^ and facing in the correct direction !!!! He just needed to continue on track as per the correct direction of the track.
6

The Shop

See All »
Ray_MXS
Profile picture for user Ray_MXS
Posts
1154
Joined
10/28/2016
Location
SE
Ray_MXS 1/5/2020 4:13am
1/5/2020 4:13am Edited Date/Time 1/5/2020 4:45am
This bullshit needs to stop. Forkner didn't even look in the direction of the track when he crashed, he immediately focused his eyes on the other lane and cutting his way there. He was still ON THE TRACK and on the right side of it too. Yeah he lost 2 position but people can't keep doing this shit and just take some position penalties, it isn't the same. What if he would get going in the right direction? Maybe he would have lost another spot, maybe he would lose more time getting stuck behind a slower rider? Maybe he would make mistakes while trying to pass said rider, maybe he goes down again? So many variables and disadvantages is just ignored when he just cuts the track and gains so much track position. Never underestimate the value of track position.

Most importantly it just needs to fucking stop. Even our lovable AC is guilty of this.
33
1
TerryB
Profile picture for user TerryB
Posts
2840
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Cambridge, MN, USA
TerryB 1/5/2020 4:18am
1/5/2020 4:18am Edited Date/Time 1/5/2020 4:22am
VRR7 wrote:
He was only facing the wrong direction because he swung the bike around so that it faced the wrong direction ! It was in fact facing...
He was only facing the wrong direction because he swung the bike around so that it faced the wrong direction ! It was in fact facing in the right direction all he needed to do was to continue in the direction it was facing ie the right direction !

With no penalty this would be the go to move when stopped or fallen on the track - Swing bike around and cut to the next section of track !
He was only facing the wrong direction because he swung the bike around so that it faced the wrong direction ! It was in fact facing in the right direction

I actually thought he was really lucky nobody drilled him while he pulled that maneuver. I think it was just a bonehead mistake with no intent to cheat, but, yeah, there should be a penalty of some sort.
8
Gordon Liddy
Profile picture for user Gordon Liddy
Posts
1416
Joined
8/19/2019
Location
Butte, MT, USA
Gordon Liddy 1/5/2020 4:38am
1/5/2020 4:38am
Two positions seems appropriate.
9
rangot
Profile picture for user rangot
Posts
898
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Normandy, FRANCE, FR
rangot 1/5/2020 5:30am
1/5/2020 5:30am
I really think he fucked Dylan's race by doing so. DF was slowly reeling this guys and then lost touch because of that move.
7
8tensolutions
Profile picture for user 8tensolutions
Posts
3565
Joined
11/15/2009
Location
Salt Lake City, UT, USA
8tensolutions 1/5/2020 7:51am
1/5/2020 7:51am Edited Date/Time 1/5/2020 8:00am
I love how everyone is suggesting penalties like they just make it up as they go along. There is a rule book for these things!. The AMA is about as consistent as weather, but when they do issue penalties the rule book should be the source.

2
1
Crossup
Profile picture for user Crossup
Posts
1658
Joined
12/13/2007
Location
Moore, SC, USA
Crossup 1/5/2020 7:58am
1/5/2020 7:58am
crockett wrote:
What about rider safety? It was much safer for forkner to cut the track, if he had to re enter safely it could have caused a...
What about rider safety? It was much safer for forkner to cut the track, if he had to re enter safely it could have caused a big pile up?
Although it barely looked like he checked for oncoming traffic
Yeah except the first thing Faukner did was go backwards on the track which is a major no no. What if someone were coming down that inside line?
1
gasser303
Profile picture for user gasser303
Posts
25
Joined
2/18/2016
Location
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
gasser303 1/5/2020 8:11am
1/5/2020 8:11am
theinternetkid wrote:
Here is what I think the possible calls for blatantly cutting the track while not gaining a position could be. Option #1: Do nothing. Not a...
Here is what I think the possible calls for blatantly cutting the track while not gaining a position could be.

Option #1: Do nothing. Not a great option especially with RC calling out the track cutting on live broadcast.

Option #2: He should be docked one position.

Option #3: He should lose the lap he cut the track on and be docked one lap.

Option #4: DQ for the whole race.

I think Option #2 is the most reasonable.
DQ.... every rider on the track knows the rules and the consequences for their actions. I don't care who the rider is, if you don't lay down the law and make the penalty stiff, the riders will keep taking advantage. In the interview afterward, AF was like oh well, no big deal....
3
151
Profile picture for user 151
Posts
536
Joined
9/15/2009
Location
Olive Branch, MS, USA
151 1/5/2020 8:13am
1/5/2020 8:13am
ts.p311 wrote:
I could be way off here, but would it make any sense to Black flag, and pull someone off the track in that situation? I get...
I could be way off here, but would it make any sense to Black flag, and pull someone off the track in that situation? I get that might be overkill, but by letting him stay out there he can effect other riders race, when he's not even really battling for said position.
Racer111 wrote:
Welcome to your first day of Supercross. 🙄🙄

What a COMPLETELY asinine suggestion.
I disagree with this suggestion for my own reasons. But to claim it is asinine really makes me think you do not understand what R111 is saying.

It isn't even a "bad" suggestion, much less asinine.

Hypothetically Forkner could have been DQ'd. If anyone (AMA etc) knew a rider in that situation would be DQ'd and did not black flag that rider, they are taking a huge risk allowing a DQ'd rider to stay on the track.
1
plowboy
Profile picture for user plowboy
Posts
14839
Joined
1/3/2010
Location
Norwich, KS, USA
plowboy 1/5/2020 8:19am
1/5/2020 8:19am
BS12 wrote:
Whatever it is will need to be something that can be/is consistently upheld for the rest of the season, with this incident as a reference.
/\/\/\...this.
toroP
Profile picture for user toroP
Posts
4519
Joined
4/6/2009
Location
Cincinnati, OH, USA
toroP 1/5/2020 8:26am
1/5/2020 8:26am
theinternetkid wrote:
Here is what I think the possible calls for blatantly cutting the track while not gaining a position could be. Option #1: Do nothing. Not a...
Here is what I think the possible calls for blatantly cutting the track while not gaining a position could be.

Option #1: Do nothing. Not a great option especially with RC calling out the track cutting on live broadcast.

Option #2: He should be docked one position.

Option #3: He should lose the lap he cut the track on and be docked one lap.

Option #4: DQ for the whole race.

I think Option #2 is the most reasonable.
gasser303 wrote:
DQ.... every rider on the track knows the rules and the consequences for their actions. I don't care who the rider is, if you don't lay...
DQ.... every rider on the track knows the rules and the consequences for their actions. I don't care who the rider is, if you don't lay down the law and make the penalty stiff, the riders will keep taking advantage. In the interview afterward, AF was like oh well, no big deal....
I’m leaning your way. It’s blatant cheating. Intent. DQ would get everyone’s attention, and put an end to it.

It’s like robbery, “OK, give the stuff back, now go home and behave”. I think not.
5
Skuzzy29
Profile picture for user Skuzzy29
Posts
866
Joined
7/28/2014
Location
Central CA, CA, USA
Skuzzy29 1/5/2020 8:45am
1/5/2020 8:45am Edited Date/Time 1/5/2020 8:55am
Should be fun watching the comment section...lol



Motofinne
Profile picture for user Motofinne
Posts
11639
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
FI
Motofinne 1/5/2020 8:54am
1/5/2020 8:54am
Ray_MXS wrote:
This bullshit needs to stop. Forkner didn't even look in the direction of the track when he crashed, he immediately focused his eyes on the other...
This bullshit needs to stop. Forkner didn't even look in the direction of the track when he crashed, he immediately focused his eyes on the other lane and cutting his way there. He was still ON THE TRACK and on the right side of it too. Yeah he lost 2 position but people can't keep doing this shit and just take some position penalties, it isn't the same. What if he would get going in the right direction? Maybe he would have lost another spot, maybe he would lose more time getting stuck behind a slower rider? Maybe he would make mistakes while trying to pass said rider, maybe he goes down again? So many variables and disadvantages is just ignored when he just cuts the track and gains so much track position. Never underestimate the value of track position.

Most importantly it just needs to fucking stop. Even our lovable AC is guilty of this.
You're spot on. The aim has to be that the penalty for doing shit like that is so harsh that riders wont even think about it. That is clearly not the case at the moment.

12
1
Ray_MXS
Profile picture for user Ray_MXS
Posts
1154
Joined
10/28/2016
Location
SE
Ray_MXS 1/5/2020 9:02am
1/5/2020 9:02am
Ray_MXS wrote:
This bullshit needs to stop. Forkner didn't even look in the direction of the track when he crashed, he immediately focused his eyes on the other...
This bullshit needs to stop. Forkner didn't even look in the direction of the track when he crashed, he immediately focused his eyes on the other lane and cutting his way there. He was still ON THE TRACK and on the right side of it too. Yeah he lost 2 position but people can't keep doing this shit and just take some position penalties, it isn't the same. What if he would get going in the right direction? Maybe he would have lost another spot, maybe he would lose more time getting stuck behind a slower rider? Maybe he would make mistakes while trying to pass said rider, maybe he goes down again? So many variables and disadvantages is just ignored when he just cuts the track and gains so much track position. Never underestimate the value of track position.

Most importantly it just needs to fucking stop. Even our lovable AC is guilty of this.
Motofinne wrote:
You're spot on. The aim has to be that the penalty for doing shit like that is so harsh that riders wont even think about it...
You're spot on. The aim has to be that the penalty for doing shit like that is so harsh that riders wont even think about it. That is clearly not the case at the moment.

Yeah I agree. Some statement needs to be made. This was a good opportunity since Forkner was on the right side of the track facing the correct way and still intentionally turned his bike around, rode across the width of the track (slightly backwards even) and then cut across to the other lane. It doesn't get much more wrong than this. He didn't even look either when he crossed the track or when he entered the other lane. It could have ended very very badly.
2

Pit Row

See All »
WhipMeister
Profile picture for user WhipMeister
Posts
5285
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Big D, TX, USA
WhipMeister 1/5/2020 9:09am
1/5/2020 9:09am
One sucky thing is that Craig never got any camera time on the podium. That's a big thing in the eyes of the guys that write the checks.
17
DA498
Profile picture for user DA498
Posts
1647
Joined
10/11/2008
Location
Milliken, CO, USA
DA498 1/5/2020 9:10am
1/5/2020 9:10am
Would it be unreasonable to have an actual set rule and apply it to all infractions. We deal with this shit every year.
2
freebroctickle 1/5/2020 9:24am
1/5/2020 9:24am
WhipMeister wrote:
One sucky thing is that Craig never got any camera time on the podium. That's a big thing in the eyes of the guys that write...
One sucky thing is that Craig never got any camera time on the podium. That's a big thing in the eyes of the guys that write the checks.
Agreed.

Contrast this with the Musquin jumping on the red cross flag incident. Ricky and Ralph got so fired up, they actually *incorrectly* declared Ken Roczen the race winner DURING THE BROADCAST, before any actual penalty was given. It was bananas.

Last night was the opposite. They played it way too cool. Barely a mention of Christian Craig.
4
mxpro252
Profile picture for user mxpro252
Posts
458
Joined
11/15/2013
Location
USA
mxpro252 1/5/2020 10:15am
1/5/2020 10:15am
Ray_MXS wrote:
This bullshit needs to stop. Forkner didn't even look in the direction of the track when he crashed, he immediately focused his eyes on the other...
This bullshit needs to stop. Forkner didn't even look in the direction of the track when he crashed, he immediately focused his eyes on the other lane and cutting his way there. He was still ON THE TRACK and on the right side of it too. Yeah he lost 2 position but people can't keep doing this shit and just take some position penalties, it isn't the same. What if he would get going in the right direction? Maybe he would have lost another spot, maybe he would lose more time getting stuck behind a slower rider? Maybe he would make mistakes while trying to pass said rider, maybe he goes down again? So many variables and disadvantages is just ignored when he just cuts the track and gains so much track position. Never underestimate the value of track position.

Most importantly it just needs to fucking stop. Even our lovable AC is guilty of this.
Motofinne wrote:
You're spot on. The aim has to be that the penalty for doing shit like that is so harsh that riders wont even think about it...
You're spot on. The aim has to be that the penalty for doing shit like that is so harsh that riders wont even think about it. That is clearly not the case at the moment.

Seems like it. I was pretty surprised at the zero hesitation to ride across the track to go through the blocks then into the other lane. Didn’t even pretend to think about correcting his bike and stay in his lane.

And yes, track position is very important. Reinserting yourself with the leader vs correcting yourself and getting going in ~4th is impactful for him and those racers around him. I think he got off fairly easy.
4
Ray_MXS
Profile picture for user Ray_MXS
Posts
1154
Joined
10/28/2016
Location
SE
Ray_MXS 1/5/2020 10:24am
1/5/2020 10:24am Edited Date/Time 1/5/2020 10:24am
Sorry for beating a dead horse but I just listened to GuyB:s post-race interview with Forkner and he said something that got my attention. I hear this a lot when a situation like this happens. He said: "I didn't even gain any time, if anything I lost some"

Yeah exactly. Even if he lost some time, he didn't lose anywhere close to what he would have if he would have just kept going in the correct direction on the track. You can't just cut the track to make up for the time you lost by crashing. That's ridiculous.
19
Question
Profile picture for user Question
Posts
3179
Joined
6/26/2014
Location
FR
Question 1/5/2020 10:24am
1/5/2020 10:24am

2 position penalty is ok, a bit severe but at the same time it is fair.

But i am just happy he didn't got landed on (and injure another rider too), this could have been really bad. I am amazed he didn't even watch the upcoming riders like he was alone on his practice track, he crossed the f... track not even watching if a rider was coming. I think the riders need a real mentoring from the teams and the race director before any disaster really happens.
TDeath21
Profile picture for user TDeath21
Posts
6515
Joined
2/22/2011
Location
Somewhere, MO, USA
TDeath21 1/5/2020 10:24am
1/5/2020 10:24am
WhipMeister wrote:
One sucky thing is that Craig never got any camera time on the podium. That's a big thing in the eyes of the guys that write...
One sucky thing is that Craig never got any camera time on the podium. That's a big thing in the eyes of the guys that write the checks.
freebroctickle wrote:
Agreed. Contrast this with the Musquin jumping on the red cross flag incident. Ricky and Ralph got so fired up, they actually *incorrectly* declared Ken Roczen...
Agreed.

Contrast this with the Musquin jumping on the red cross flag incident. Ricky and Ralph got so fired up, they actually *incorrectly* declared Ken Roczen the race winner DURING THE BROADCAST, before any actual penalty was given. It was bananas.

Last night was the opposite. They played it way too cool. Barely a mention of Christian Craig.
This brings up a good side question. After the Dungey incident a few years back that took a win away they changed the rule. Musquin last year was awarded the win and then penalized points. Roczen was awarded second place points. Did they switch the rule back this season? Because all reports say Forkner is given fifth and the other two riders slid up one position and were awarded those points accordingly.

If they switched it back then that’s good. I thought that was super dumb last year when Musquin gained timed on Roczen by jumping there and held on for the win. If he doesn’t do that then Roczen could very well keep the pressure on and make the pass. They instead awarded Roczen second place, possibly costing him three points, and Musquin first, then penalized Musquin however many points. That was really dumb.
1
2
TDeath21
Profile picture for user TDeath21
Posts
6515
Joined
2/22/2011
Location
Somewhere, MO, USA
TDeath21 1/5/2020 10:27am
1/5/2020 10:27am
Ray_MXS wrote:
Sorry for beating a dead horse but I just listened to GuyB:s post-race interview with Forkner and he said something that got my attention. I hear...
Sorry for beating a dead horse but I just listened to GuyB:s post-race interview with Forkner and he said something that got my attention. I hear this a lot when a situation like this happens. He said: "I didn't even gain any time, if anything I lost some"

Yeah exactly. Even if he lost some time, he didn't lose anywhere close to what he would have if he would have just kept going in the correct direction on the track. You can't just cut the track to make up for the time you lost by crashing. That's ridiculous.
Yes people on this site drive me nuts with that comment. Yes you lost time because you made a mistake. But you made sure you didn’t lose nearly as much by cutting the track. It was like AC at the nationals last year. He cut the track which completely nullified his mistake and allowed him to stay right on Cooper’s wheel. I don’t care about losing time overall from before you made the mistake. I care about you gaining time once you get going again, which both Forkner last night and AC in the nationals clearly did.
8
2
wwdiii
Profile picture for user wwdiii
Posts
2581
Joined
4/15/2019
Location
League City, TX, USA
wwdiii 1/5/2020 10:35am
1/5/2020 10:35am
Radical wrote:
He was already facing the wrong direction and it would've been difficult to turn around safely and enter where he exited. After watching the replay where...
He was already facing the wrong direction and it would've been difficult to turn around safely and enter where he exited. After watching the replay where they showed how close to the turn he was when he hit the hay bail, it appears he gained very little.
I say give him a pass on this one.
I’m the same, I say give him a pass. Just like he said in the interview, a million things run through your head in that situation. He just took the path of least resistance to get back on track.
12
Ray_MXS
Profile picture for user Ray_MXS
Posts
1154
Joined
10/28/2016
Location
SE
Ray_MXS 1/5/2020 10:39am
1/5/2020 10:39am
Ray_MXS wrote:
Sorry for beating a dead horse but I just listened to GuyB:s post-race interview with Forkner and he said something that got my attention. I hear...
Sorry for beating a dead horse but I just listened to GuyB:s post-race interview with Forkner and he said something that got my attention. I hear this a lot when a situation like this happens. He said: "I didn't even gain any time, if anything I lost some"

Yeah exactly. Even if he lost some time, he didn't lose anywhere close to what he would have if he would have just kept going in the correct direction on the track. You can't just cut the track to make up for the time you lost by crashing. That's ridiculous.
TDeath21 wrote:
Yes people on this site drive me nuts with that comment. Yes you lost time because you made a mistake. But you made sure you didn’t...
Yes people on this site drive me nuts with that comment. Yes you lost time because you made a mistake. But you made sure you didn’t lose nearly as much by cutting the track. It was like AC at the nationals last year. He cut the track which completely nullified his mistake and allowed him to stay right on Cooper’s wheel. I don’t care about losing time overall from before you made the mistake. I care about you gaining time once you get going again, which both Forkner last night and AC in the nationals clearly did.
I can see a scenario in a few years:
Guy runs in 3rd, runs off the side of the track and crashes. He picks his bike up and instead of immediately going back on the track where he ran off, he just looks to the next section of the track and goes there to "safely" slot himself back in 3rd place.

"Well, I didn't even gain any time"
4
TheLsho 1/5/2020 10:43am
1/5/2020 10:43am
WhipMeister wrote:
One sucky thing is that Craig never got any camera time on the podium. That's a big thing in the eyes of the guys that write...
One sucky thing is that Craig never got any camera time on the podium. That's a big thing in the eyes of the guys that write the checks.
This.

If they believe there is an infraction or penalty about to be laid down, bring up the person who will be on next. Get their view on it and go from there. It's cool to have that position, but if you don't get to reap all the rewards of it, it's not as sweet.
1
TY838
Profile picture for user TY838
Posts
60
Joined
2/18/2019
Location
Hallsboro, NC, USA
TY838 1/5/2020 11:04am
1/5/2020 11:04am
Ray_MXS wrote:
This bullshit needs to stop. Forkner didn't even look in the direction of the track when he crashed, he immediately focused his eyes on the other...
This bullshit needs to stop. Forkner didn't even look in the direction of the track when he crashed, he immediately focused his eyes on the other lane and cutting his way there. He was still ON THE TRACK and on the right side of it too. Yeah he lost 2 position but people can't keep doing this shit and just take some position penalties, it isn't the same. What if he would get going in the right direction? Maybe he would have lost another spot, maybe he would lose more time getting stuck behind a slower rider? Maybe he would make mistakes while trying to pass said rider, maybe he goes down again? So many variables and disadvantages is just ignored when he just cuts the track and gains so much track position. Never underestimate the value of track position.

Most importantly it just needs to fucking stop. Even our lovable AC is guilty of this.
Motofinne wrote:
You're spot on. The aim has to be that the penalty for doing shit like that is so harsh that riders wont even think about it...
You're spot on. The aim has to be that the penalty for doing shit like that is so harsh that riders wont even think about it. That is clearly not the case at the moment.

mxpro252 wrote:
Seems like it. I was pretty surprised at the zero hesitation to ride across the track to go through the blocks then into the other lane...
Seems like it. I was pretty surprised at the zero hesitation to ride across the track to go through the blocks then into the other lane. Didn’t even pretend to think about correcting his bike and stay in his lane.

And yes, track position is very important. Reinserting yourself with the leader vs correcting yourself and getting going in ~4th is impactful for him and those racers around him. I think he got off fairly easy.
I think the penalty is appropriate but that was the weirdest track cutting event I've ever seen. I don't know if he was disoriented as to his position on the racetrack or what but there was no hesitation in riding backwards on the track, than swerving off, than on again into the other lane. What an odd sequence of events that was.
4
Stop notifications

Post a reply to: Forkner and penalty