Should America not race MXON?

jemcee
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jemcee 6/18/2019 8:48pm
6/18/2019 8:48pm
Landonious217 wrote:
First, we should absolutely go and send the best available. However a few things some of the Euro's are being quite disingenuous about. 1. The distance...
First, we should absolutely go and send the best available. However a few things some of the Euro's are being quite disingenuous about.

1. The distance from Paris to Moscow is almost 1,000 less miles than it is from Washougal to Unadilla. So when a rider from Austria hops on a plane, drives, etc from Vienna to Assen (705 miles) is only 70 more miles than it is from Dallas to El Paso...... This brings me into point 2

2. This event is extremely catered to GP riders, all of their teams are HQ'd in Europe, all of their families, friends, etc. Hell majority of the continents population lives within 2 time zones compared to our 4.

3. From 1979-2019 the MXDN has left Europe only 6 times (4 USA, 1 AUS, 1 BRA).......... 6 times in 40 years is a bit ridiculous. Move the damn thing around. Canada, Asia, Australia everyone always has to come to Europe, race on tracks that GP riders race on during the year (most of the time)

Anyways, no matter where it's at I hope we go and compete .
You just laid out exactly why it's held in Europe the majority of the time
When it's held in Europe it's cheaper and more convenient for many more countries and teams..
I'd love it to be held in Australia but that would be super expensive for EVERY team not just 2 or 3
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jemcee
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jemcee 6/18/2019 9:50pm
6/18/2019 9:50pm
jeffro503 wrote:
I don't buy the " cost " excuse , but I totally understand the scheduling conflict of it. There are three huge series on this planet....GP's...
I don't buy the " cost " excuse , but I totally understand the scheduling conflict of it.

There are three huge series on this planet....GP's and the SX / Nationals.

The MXoN's always seems to happen within about 2 weeks right after the last GP , and 97% of the time , it's over on that side of the world. Our guy's have to keep motivated and training like 4 - 6 more weeks after our series is over ( They started in January for SX ). They aren't racing anything , and after 9 months of doing nothing but racing.......I can totally see why some wouldn't want to go.

Also......does someone have that yearly date / previous schedule of when the MXoN's happen? From what I remember , it's like 3 - 4 weeks later then what it used to be. Anyways , I hope our guy's go , but I don't blame any of the rider's or team member's for not wanting to extend their yearly schedule by 6 weeks longer for a bragging rights race.
I did this a few years ago but I just did it quickly again, fully trusting google haha I'm only posting the Sundays date

2001- 30 September
2002- 21 October
2003- 5 October
2004- 3 October
2005- 25 September
2006- 24 September
2007- 23 September
2008- 28 September
2009- 4 October
2010- 26 September
2011- 18 September
2012- 30 September
2013- 29 September
2014- 28 September
2015- 27 September
2016- 25 September
2017- 1 October
2018- 7 October
2019- 29 September
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Crush
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Crush 6/18/2019 10:04pm
6/18/2019 10:04pm
Australia shouldn't go. It's in the middle of our SX series. Or sometimes our MX series. Or sometimes our best riders aren't riding.

Fucking waaaaaaaah. Go. It's for your country.
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jjavaman
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jjavaman 6/18/2019 10:26pm
6/18/2019 10:26pm
jjavaman wrote:
How come DC hasn’t chimed in on why they couldn’t start outdoors later?
DonM wrote:
Every time an MXDN post comes up the dates come and somebody wants an explanation from DC why the nationals end when they do....and he usually...
Every time an MXDN post comes up the dates come and somebody wants an explanation from DC why the nationals end when they do....and he usually explains that a) The teams/industry asked for it and b) The networks asked for it because of college football starting in August...Also don't everyone blame Eli, blame Kawasaki as they (Bruce S) will not support the MXDN....and what are the chances of them allowing their new to the team 2020 rider to go....The team (if it goes) will be an all Austrian team...two on white and one on orange
Mavtv shows college football?
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scott_nz 6/18/2019 10:29pm
6/18/2019 10:29pm
Crush wrote:
Australia shouldn't go. It's in the middle of our SX series. Or sometimes our MX series. Or sometimes our best riders aren't riding. Fucking waaaaaaaah. Go...
Australia shouldn't go. It's in the middle of our SX series. Or sometimes our MX series. Or sometimes our best riders aren't riding.

Fucking waaaaaaaah. Go. It's for your country.
NZ and Australia go, and its only been on our hemisphere once if 40 years,

if you dont want to go because you get your ass handed to you, or it does not suit, fair enough, it is a cash cow for youthstream and they really should cover more expenses than they do,

and for the record, for about 5 years they did help team NZ,
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Sideways
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Sideways 6/18/2019 11:23pm
6/18/2019 11:23pm
Tarz483 wrote:
Its just list its importance imo , all The Best Top Riders from all around the world Race each other weekly at the Big series in...
Its just list its importance imo , all The Best Top Riders from all around the world Race each other weekly at the Big series in The USA and In EUROPE
Im not sure how this race came to be But sending 3 guys
To race each other for one day really just doesnt
Prove anything or seem to have the importance it once did.
I have been feeling this way for years.
Ever since the US stopped winning maybe? Wink

But seriously, If the usa would win again, that win would be at the top onnthe "best win" list. Mxon is a fantastic evemt and it means alot for the riders and fans.
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Finnish_Flash_62 6/19/2019 2:16am
6/19/2019 2:16am
jeffro503 wrote:
Don't get me wrong , I'm not down playing the event. It's an incredible race for sure. It just conflicts pretty bad with any racer...
Don't get me wrong , I'm not down playing the event. It's an incredible race for sure. It just conflicts pretty bad with any racer , from any country that races SX , MEC and the nationals here.

I'll ask this question to anyone on thios board , so answer honestly. " If you were asked to work an extra 6 weeks per year , for free , would you? " Because that is exactly what you are asking the rider's and teams to do.

The GP guy's don't have to do that. Their season ends two weeks before the MXoN's race.

Again....I'm sure most all the guy's here would love to do the race , but you're asking them to keep training for 6 weeks for something they won't make one penny at , and cuts into either off time , or 2020 SX prep. Which btw is where and how they make their living.
I get the point about it being a pain in the ass with the break, and it’s a valid point. The weird thing is though, as someone posted above the date of the race has been pretty much the same every year, yet this issue has started to come up only in the last couple of years. Also it was a non issue last year.
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Finnish_Flash_62 6/19/2019 2:25am
6/19/2019 2:25am
Landonious217 wrote:
First, we should absolutely go and send the best available. However a few things some of the Euro's are being quite disingenuous about. 1. The distance...
First, we should absolutely go and send the best available. However a few things some of the Euro's are being quite disingenuous about.

1. The distance from Paris to Moscow is almost 1,000 less miles than it is from Washougal to Unadilla. So when a rider from Austria hops on a plane, drives, etc from Vienna to Assen (705 miles) is only 70 more miles than it is from Dallas to El Paso...... This brings me into point 2

2. This event is extremely catered to GP riders, all of their teams are HQ'd in Europe, all of their families, friends, etc. Hell majority of the continents population lives within 2 time zones compared to our 4.

3. From 1979-2019 the MXDN has left Europe only 6 times (4 USA, 1 AUS, 1 BRA).......... 6 times in 40 years is a bit ridiculous. Move the damn thing around. Canada, Asia, Australia everyone always has to come to Europe, race on tracks that GP riders race on during the year (most of the time)

Anyways, no matter where it's at I hope we go and compete .
6 times in the last 40 years, but 3 of those times have been in the last 12 years. Maybe not the best point.

For the record, to have it in the US every 4th year would be reasonable. But in that case I would expect the US team to be all in on the event and not go through this shit every year in between.
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VET176
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VET176 6/19/2019 2:35am
6/19/2019 2:35am
RichardLoots wrote:
how many people were at MXON Redbud ? didnt look like nobody cared anymore , it was packed both days

My yawn is better than yours. Wink
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Natester551v
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Natester551v 6/19/2019 2:37am
6/19/2019 2:37am
I agree that the US delegation of hangers-on, family, man-friends, etc. has gotten ridiculous. Roger D. has brought this up many times as well.

Still doesn't address the crux of the issue though - schedule and cost (obviously reducing the entourage would help).

Our over-emphasis on SX makes it a tough sell for our top guys I'd imagine. As others have pointed out, the date hasn't floated that much, so I'm guessing our national mx schedule has ended earlier?

At the end of the day, as sad as it is for us diehard moto fans - the juice probably ain't worth the squeeze for most of these guys. Sad but true...I wish it were different...
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fastchookracing 6/19/2019 2:52am
6/19/2019 2:52am
Since 1947 the motocross des nations has been the most important mx event in the world. Any discussion questioning attendance of countries erodes the fabric of the sports legitimacy.
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Francis377
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Francis377 6/19/2019 2:58am
6/19/2019 2:58am
Without the USA MXDN is just another GP with a different scoring system. The USA showing up to the MXDN is the biggest draw (although there are many other reasons why it's great to watch) . It sucks that scheduling in the US is so much affected by other sports and there's not much that can be done about it. I still think that when looking at how much Team USAs participation adds to the event, there's not enough being done to accomodate them. So with the current schedule, it doesnt make sense to send the top US riders because the schedule is too much. They will either be not sufficiently prepared or completely burn out if they keep going after 17 supercrosses and 12 nationals.
So if I have to chose between sending a B-Team of riders that can make the schedule work or no team at all, I would vote for not sending a team at all and see what happens to the relevancy of the MXDN. I would certainly not watch, the whole point of it for me is to see how the GP teams measure up to the USA.
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fastchookracing 6/19/2019 3:12am
6/19/2019 3:12am
Francis377 wrote:
Without the USA MXDN is just another GP with a different scoring system. The USA showing up to the MXDN is the biggest draw (although there...
Without the USA MXDN is just another GP with a different scoring system. The USA showing up to the MXDN is the biggest draw (although there are many other reasons why it's great to watch) . It sucks that scheduling in the US is so much affected by other sports and there's not much that can be done about it. I still think that when looking at how much Team USAs participation adds to the event, there's not enough being done to accomodate them. So with the current schedule, it doesnt make sense to send the top US riders because the schedule is too much. They will either be not sufficiently prepared or completely burn out if they keep going after 17 supercrosses and 12 nationals.
So if I have to chose between sending a B-Team of riders that can make the schedule work or no team at all, I would vote for not sending a team at all and see what happens to the relevancy of the MXDN. I would certainly not watch, the whole point of it for me is to see how the GP teams measure up to the USA.
The mxdn does not begin or end on us borders. It will continue to be the most important mx race in the world.
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scott_nz 6/19/2019 3:23am
6/19/2019 3:23am
Francis377 wrote:
Without the USA MXDN is just another GP with a different scoring system. The USA showing up to the MXDN is the biggest draw (although there...
Without the USA MXDN is just another GP with a different scoring system. The USA showing up to the MXDN is the biggest draw (although there are many other reasons why it's great to watch) . It sucks that scheduling in the US is so much affected by other sports and there's not much that can be done about it. I still think that when looking at how much Team USAs participation adds to the event, there's not enough being done to accomodate them. So with the current schedule, it doesnt make sense to send the top US riders because the schedule is too much. They will either be not sufficiently prepared or completely burn out if they keep going after 17 supercrosses and 12 nationals.
So if I have to chose between sending a B-Team of riders that can make the schedule work or no team at all, I would vote for not sending a team at all and see what happens to the relevancy of the MXDN. I would certainly not watch, the whole point of it for me is to see how the GP teams measure up to the USA.
it survived for a long time before the US turned up, it will go on long after if they stop,

it wont be as good without them their tho,

and as per the list stated before, the des nation's has not changed dates, its the US that has changed their season,
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CPR
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CPR 6/19/2019 3:36am
6/19/2019 3:36am
smee113 wrote:
1) The FIM does not pay the expenses of other long distance teams such as Canada, Brazil, Japan, Australia, and New Zealand. Brazil often ends up...
1) The FIM does not pay the expenses of other long distance teams such as Canada, Brazil, Japan, Australia, and New Zealand. Brazil often ends up in the B-Final, but they still show up every year.

If I remember correctly, the US is supposed to host the MXoN every 4 years now, meaning that the event becomes long distance for every country besides the US and Canada. So collectively, it's actually worse for Europe.

2) It was the US that decided to end our schedule earlier in the year. The MXoN schedule has remained largely the same, so why should the MXoN change to accommodate our schedule?

3) Other countries go every year to finish far worse than we do. Countries like Ukraine, Iceland, and Greece go every year despite never making the A Finals.

Sorry, but I don't think it's a coincidence that this started becoming an issue when we started losing. I'd rather go and finish 15th every year, then not show up. We're better than that, or least we should be.
^^Thank you^^
motomike137
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motomike137 6/19/2019 3:37am
6/19/2019 3:37am
We sure as shit better go. I know it's a hassle, I know it's expensive but It is a race that helps make this sport that we love special. Yes the race is on a surface that doesn't favor our team at all but the truth is that thought is overblown and we might just have a really good day and do really well. People have such short memories and have already forgotten that just a couple years ago we should have won it. Also there are some key players from the GP's that might not be at 100% at that time.
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motomike137
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motomike137 6/19/2019 3:43am
6/19/2019 3:43am
mayzo wrote:
I’m sure the FIM will give you one of these and a quiet place for a lay down if it’s all to hard. B) [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/06/18/355508/s1200_3C79F8F0_3270_44FD_BC67_6D96DE3ED420.jpg[/img]
I’m sure the FIM will give you one of these and a quiet place for a lay down if it’s all to hard. Cool
LOL!
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RichardLoots 6/19/2019 3:53am
6/19/2019 3:53am
VET176 wrote:
My yawn is better than yours. Wink
true , who beats Boris ? Laughing
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Roosterspatch 6/19/2019 4:00am
6/19/2019 4:00am
Ramrod wrote:
I think the top reason there is any sentiment within the industry to NOT go is because there is like a month off after the US...
I think the top reason there is any sentiment within the industry to NOT go is because there is like a month off after the US nationals and guys want to relax (rightfully so) instead of keeping the training up for mxdn. And they would rather spend that time adjusting to new rides, or preparing for the Monster Cup.

The reason to not go about the cost is the cost is almost the same as any other country, no?
That's what i thought after listening to Pulp and to be fair to the riders they need to get ready for SX. I would love to see them out racing but if they withdrew i get it , also it is maybe what they need to do to put pressure on the world mxgp to finish the week after or before the AMA MX is finished.
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RichardLoots 6/19/2019 4:04am
6/19/2019 4:04am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2019 4:05am
Ramrod wrote:
I think the top reason there is any sentiment within the industry to NOT go is because there is like a month off after the US...
I think the top reason there is any sentiment within the industry to NOT go is because there is like a month off after the US nationals and guys want to relax (rightfully so) instead of keeping the training up for mxdn. And they would rather spend that time adjusting to new rides, or preparing for the Monster Cup.

The reason to not go about the cost is the cost is almost the same as any other country, no?
Roosterspatch wrote:
That's what i thought after listening to Pulp and to be fair to the riders they need to get ready for SX. I would love to...
That's what i thought after listening to Pulp and to be fair to the riders they need to get ready for SX. I would love to see them out racing but if they withdrew i get it , also it is maybe what they need to do to put pressure on the world mxgp to finish the week after or before the AMA MX is finished.
why did AMA put the MEC just after MXON is a better question ?
MXON has always been around at same date for decades
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hellion
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hellion 6/19/2019 4:13am
6/19/2019 4:13am
We have quite a few good riders to choose from this year. Osborne, Webb, Anderson, and Barcia would all likely go if asked. Pick two of the KTM/Husky guys and put Barcia on the YZ250f. Everyone’s saying we’ll get smoked, but I honestly see this team having an excellent chance of winning.

Also, just because Coldenhoff had a great race last year doesn’t mean it’s going to happen again. Remember Anstie’s performance from two years ago?
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RichardLoots 6/19/2019 4:27am
6/19/2019 4:27am
EZZA 95B wrote:
Boris beats Boris. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/06/19/355552/s1200_87_1259646407mueb.jpg[/img]
Boris beats Boris.

you win ..Laughing Laughing
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speedman
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speedman 6/19/2019 4:32am
6/19/2019 4:32am
Hypothetical: If they're healthy and still riding well at selection time, send the best team in the US, instead of the putative three best riders: Anderson, Osborne, and Mosiman on Husqvarna.

The pluses: They pit together instead of scattered around the paddock, after training together. Husqvarna has the most to gain in the US market with a win, and Husqvarna Europe might even be forthcoming with assistance on engine package and suspension advice, since this year it looks like not many Husky Euro contenders besides Olson. Osborne is deeply experienced in living and racing there, for more advice. Anderson has already shown what he can do; he and Osborne are both gonna fight forward the whole race no matter what. Mosiman is responding very well to career pressure this year, stands fifth among US 250 riders now; if he's competent in sand and has starts together by race day, that can be sufficient for the winning formula of recent years: two guys who can win or podium their class, and a third who exceeds expectations with maybe a top six in class?

Attrition in the Euro ranks means a genuine team could work this year, even if it doesn't include the US 250 champ. Main reason I would sub anyone for a healthy Cianciarulo is that his boss does not want to go. Another reason is that people would expect too much of him; he'd face more pressure than anyone else we can send on a 250.

We have a bunch of good riders--isn't a 250 GP winner currently eighth in the US standings? But our 250 guys usually have the talent, yet not the experience with varied tracks to do their best at the MXDN, and it seems like unless your 250 rider is a lock to medal the class, or outright, you might as well send anyone who will keep their head, execute, and scrap forward the whole race.

Sending Tomac, AC, and Osborne or Anderson or Webb is definitely appealing, of course.

But sending a strong enough single-brand team harks back to the first US win. Not sure such a US team can be mustered on another brand this year. Husky seems like the brand that would say, "Hold my beer" if the opportunity arose, and this year seems like a window of opportunity due to Euro attrition.

Do we focus on sending our three best guys, or our best team?

I may be way overestimating Mosiman, but I think maybe he could help the US sneak in there and steal one, with a little luck.
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EZZA 95B 6/19/2019 4:44am
6/19/2019 4:44am
speedman wrote:
Hypothetical: If they're healthy and still riding well at selection time, send the best team in the US, instead of the putative three best riders: Anderson...
Hypothetical: If they're healthy and still riding well at selection time, send the best team in the US, instead of the putative three best riders: Anderson, Osborne, and Mosiman on Husqvarna.

The pluses: They pit together instead of scattered around the paddock, after training together. Husqvarna has the most to gain in the US market with a win, and Husqvarna Europe might even be forthcoming with assistance on engine package and suspension advice, since this year it looks like not many Husky Euro contenders besides Olson. Osborne is deeply experienced in living and racing there, for more advice. Anderson has already shown what he can do; he and Osborne are both gonna fight forward the whole race no matter what. Mosiman is responding very well to career pressure this year, stands fifth among US 250 riders now; if he's competent in sand and has starts together by race day, that can be sufficient for the winning formula of recent years: two guys who can win or podium their class, and a third who exceeds expectations with maybe a top six in class?

Attrition in the Euro ranks means a genuine team could work this year, even if it doesn't include the US 250 champ. Main reason I would sub anyone for a healthy Cianciarulo is that his boss does not want to go. Another reason is that people would expect too much of him; he'd face more pressure than anyone else we can send on a 250.

We have a bunch of good riders--isn't a 250 GP winner currently eighth in the US standings? But our 250 guys usually have the talent, yet not the experience with varied tracks to do their best at the MXDN, and it seems like unless your 250 rider is a lock to medal the class, or outright, you might as well send anyone who will keep their head, execute, and scrap forward the whole race.

Sending Tomac, AC, and Osborne or Anderson or Webb is definitely appealing, of course.

But sending a strong enough single-brand team harks back to the first US win. Not sure such a US team can be mustered on another brand this year. Husky seems like the brand that would say, "Hold my beer" if the opportunity arose, and this year seems like a window of opportunity due to Euro attrition.

Do we focus on sending our three best guys, or our best team?

I may be way overestimating Mosiman, but I think maybe he could help the US sneak in there and steal one, with a little luck.
Crazy! I mean like, so many positive waves, maybe you can't lose!?
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MohMoto14
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MohMoto14 6/19/2019 4:58am
6/19/2019 4:58am
I'd say go this year and announce if we can't work something out with the schedule to suit everybody next year we won't be attending. Not going now will make us look like cowards and it is expecting to much to ask for a change on such short notice whether they are willing to or not.
Money wise there should be no excuse with how much money there is in both our series, if we don't have enough to go it's only because our sport is consumed with some greedy ass people.
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Motohead279
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Motohead279 6/19/2019 5:14am
6/19/2019 5:14am
They really need to do something about the schedule of this race. I don’t blame riders for not wanting to go. The AMA riders get no time off from October when their new contracts start until the end of the nationals end of August. September is really the only month that riders can take a vacation, kind of eat what they want to eat ( remember all of these riders are on a very strict diets) and just get away from Racing and spend time with their family

Any rider who is picked to go now gives up any vacation they have and now has to continue to train and stay in race shape for an extra five more weeks. Then add on the extreme pressure of this race and that if team USA doesn’t win then we didn’t get 2nd or 3rd, but “USA Lost”. And as fans we shit on them when they don’t ride as we expect them to.

Then throw in the fact that the MEC is a week later, which instead of testing for they are focusing still on motocross .

The AMA and the FIM need to work better together to get this race at a better date. The MXON keeps moving later and later in the year and the nationals have ended a little earlier because our series take less breaks during the year.
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RichardLoots 6/19/2019 5:17am
6/19/2019 5:17am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2019 5:23am
Motohead279 wrote:
They really need to do something about the schedule of this race. I don’t blame riders for not wanting to go. The AMA riders get no...
They really need to do something about the schedule of this race. I don’t blame riders for not wanting to go. The AMA riders get no time off from October when their new contracts start until the end of the nationals end of August. September is really the only month that riders can take a vacation, kind of eat what they want to eat ( remember all of these riders are on a very strict diets) and just get away from Racing and spend time with their family

Any rider who is picked to go now gives up any vacation they have and now has to continue to train and stay in race shape for an extra five more weeks. Then add on the extreme pressure of this race and that if team USA doesn’t win then we didn’t get 2nd or 3rd, but “USA Lost”. And as fans we shit on them when they don’t ride as we expect them to.

Then throw in the fact that the MEC is a week later, which instead of testing for they are focusing still on motocross .

The AMA and the FIM need to work better together to get this race at a better date. The MXON keeps moving later and later in the year and the nationals have ended a little earlier because our series take less breaks during the year.
date list from a few pages back .

2001- 30 September
2002- 21 October
2003- 5 October
2004- 3 October
2005- 25 September
2006- 24 September
2007- 23 September
2008- 28 September
2009- 4 October
2010- 26 September
2011- 18 September
2012- 30 September
2013- 29 September
2014- 28 September
2015- 27 September
2016- 25 September
2017- 1 October
2018- 7 October
2019- 29 September

also wonder why did AMA put the MEC a week after MXON dates ??

as you see dates havent changed much at all , US schedule has changed and best option would be to move MEC later in year and make it a sx warm up race and not a season ending race like it is now ? i mean they just finished out doors , race MXON outdoors and have to setup bikes for SX for a single race ?
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DonM
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DonM 6/19/2019 5:17am
6/19/2019 5:17am
jjavaman wrote:
How come DC hasn’t chimed in on why they couldn’t start outdoors later?
DonM wrote:
Every time an MXDN post comes up the dates come and somebody wants an explanation from DC why the nationals end when they do....and he usually...
Every time an MXDN post comes up the dates come and somebody wants an explanation from DC why the nationals end when they do....and he usually explains that a) The teams/industry asked for it and b) The networks asked for it because of college football starting in August...Also don't everyone blame Eli, blame Kawasaki as they (Bruce S) will not support the MXDN....and what are the chances of them allowing their new to the team 2020 rider to go....The team (if it goes) will be an all Austrian team...two on white and one on orange
jjavaman wrote:
Mavtv shows college football?
Nope but NBCSN does and if we're not on that say goodbye to NBCSports Gold app...sure let's take a major step backwards in TV coverage for one race in another country...FYI I'm a huge fan of MXGP and MXDN and have been for a long time but I also think the Fat Italian and the FIM are a complete joke...
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