The newly invented sport of "pure motocross" (Racer X)

mxb2
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12/6/2018 8:46am
Sideways wrote:
Give him a year and he would dominate sx aswell. I cant even understand the people saying that he could not be good at sx. roczen,musquin...
Give him a year and he would dominate sx aswell. I cant even understand the people saying that he could not be good at sx. roczen,musquin and ferrandis are doing fine. Why wouldnt herlings that is much faster than them? lol

https://youtu.be/n9FXeC0Q6Qg
Give tomac a year outdoors only training and he would win in europe also.
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motomike137
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12/6/2018 8:49am
Sideways wrote:
Give him a year and he would dominate sx aswell. I cant even understand the people saying that he could not be good at sx. roczen,musquin...
Give him a year and he would dominate sx aswell. I cant even understand the people saying that he could not be good at sx. roczen,musquin and ferrandis are doing fine. Why wouldnt herlings that is much faster than them? lol

https://youtu.be/n9FXeC0Q6Qg
I'm quite certain Herlings could become "competitive" in SX but dominate would have to be proved out. The style with which he rules MX does not automatically transfer to SX.
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Sideways
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12/6/2018 8:53am
Sideways wrote:
Give him a year and he would dominate sx aswell. I cant even understand the people saying that he could not be good at sx. roczen,musquin...
Give him a year and he would dominate sx aswell. I cant even understand the people saying that he could not be good at sx. roczen,musquin and ferrandis are doing fine. Why wouldnt herlings that is much faster than them? lol

https://youtu.be/n9FXeC0Q6Qg
I'm quite certain Herlings could become "competitive" in SX but dominate would have to be proved out. The style with which he rules MX does not...
I'm quite certain Herlings could become "competitive" in SX but dominate would have to be proved out. The style with which he rules MX does not automatically transfer to SX.
ok dominate was the wrong word. He would be in the mix and fighting for wins. Thats my opinion Smile
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Barrett57
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12/6/2018 9:03am Edited Date/Time 12/6/2018 9:04am
You lot still crying about being nailed by the Euros? That's nothing compared to what's coming your way in Assen Laughing

If your feelings get hurt this easily you could always have a participation trophy?
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The Shop

NorCal 50+
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12/6/2018 9:06am
NorCal 50+ wrote:
I was happy to see Racer X's recognition of Herlings as rider of the year, almost immediately followed by chuckles at alternate reality in the story...
I was happy to see Racer X's recognition of Herlings as rider of the year, almost immediately followed by chuckles at alternate reality in the story.
DC highlights the difference in the two forms- Supercross and motocross, but sneaks in that Herlings "just watches" Supercross and when he tried it, it "didn't go well."
DC then introduces the concept of the heretofore-unheard of "pure motocross world." (wherever it is, I want to go there) Because now that a Euro has owned everybody on America's iconic track, it's time for a reclassification of the boundaries of the sport. Grinning
How many people in the world are actually good at the insanely specialized world of Supercross, and have the resources to actually compete on a full-blown SX track (cough- bike sales)? How does it prove you have heart when you have a gigantic, groomed track and a crew to keep every lap pristine as you prepare for months for your corporate-produced riding layout,?
The finish to the Racer X story is that Herling is the fastest man, "so long as the sun is out."
Overall, a back handed compliment to Herlings...most of us ride when the sun is out.
mx_563 wrote:
Fair assessment in my opinion. I think that no matter how legitimate or accurate the analysis, it is too easy to construe as "excuse making" (even...
Fair assessment in my opinion.

I think that no matter how legitimate or accurate the analysis, it is too easy to construe as "excuse making" (even if it's not). And the more of this content that you put out there, the more compromised the message feels. It makes me cringe when I hear/read a media expert attempt to qualify or put into a specific context America's recent performances against GP riders. Not necessarily because I disagree, but because to me, sounding off about it just isn't a good look.

And what the hell are you doing posting threads at 3am anyway NorCal 50+ ???


I think it was around 1 am, I thought. It was pretty late.
I went a little hard on DC I guess, but there has been a definite attempt by the US industry to split SX and MX into two different distinct sports since the MXON, and highlight that US riders are better at SX and make us all feel better.. My point was that SX probably doesn't attract people to the sport- it's seen as more of a gladiatorial freakshow.
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12/6/2018 9:46am
Has Herlings every said what his thoughts were on Supercross? Not necessarily If he would ever give it a shot but I would be interested to hear his take on supercross vs motocross.


mx_563
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12/6/2018 9:54am
NorCal 50+ wrote:
I think it was around 1 am, I thought. It was pretty late. I went a little hard on DC I guess, but there has been...
I think it was around 1 am, I thought. It was pretty late.
I went a little hard on DC I guess, but there has been a definite attempt by the US industry to split SX and MX into two different distinct sports since the MXON, and highlight that US riders are better at SX and make us all feel better.. My point was that SX probably doesn't attract people to the sport- it's seen as more of a gladiatorial freakshow.
I agree with your point.

To me, it's like...
Brooks Koepka might be the top ranked Golfer in the world but we have this thing we like to call Mini-Golf over here in the USA. It may not require as much endurance and strength but it's way more technical. So yeah, he might be the best "pure golfer" but....he'd get smoked trying the putt through a windmill....

All of this makes me wonder how we ever managed to dominate the MXdN in 1996, on a one-off track built inside of a road-race course, with a SX specialist on the team (and that's just one of many such examples). Was anybody having the SX vs MX discussion back then? Was USA the underdog that year because of our focus on SX????? Suddenly this is an issue in 2018? Did Jerez resemble any of our AMA National tracks?


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captmoto
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12/6/2018 9:57am
Barrett57 wrote:
You lot still crying about being nailed by the Euros? That's nothing compared to what's coming your way in Assen :laugh: If your feelings get hurt...
You lot still crying about being nailed by the Euros? That's nothing compared to what's coming your way in Assen Laughing

If your feelings get hurt this easily you could always have a participation trophy?
Agree. We will win the "B" team final to make the main event.
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pdub187
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12/6/2018 10:31am
Barrett57 wrote:
You lot still crying about being nailed by the Euros? That's nothing compared to what's coming your way in Assen :laugh: If your feelings get hurt...
You lot still crying about being nailed by the Euros? That's nothing compared to what's coming your way in Assen Laughing

If your feelings get hurt this easily you could always have a participation trophy?
If they even go. I wouldn't be shocked if a team didn't get sent. Riders seem to only bleed red, white and blue when they think they can win.
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cmotodad
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12/6/2018 10:43am
Having been to Red Bud for the MXon, there is a distinct difference in style. Any top rider in MXGP or the Nationals can, with track time, become a good supercross rider. Because supercross pays the majority of the bills in the US, the focus is stronger over here. Whether it's outdoors or indoors, some riders are more prone to injury, no matter the track they ride. I have a newfound respect for the top Euro's speed. The style and bike setup is enjoyable to watch. Personally, I think this whole Euro vs. US banter has gotten out of hand. No matter the continent, the top riders are extremely talented and deserve recognition no matter the track of preference.
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12/6/2018 10:55am
Has Herlings every said what his thoughts were on Supercross? Not necessarily If he would ever give it a shot but I would be interested to...
Has Herlings every said what his thoughts were on Supercross? Not necessarily If he would ever give it a shot but I would be interested to hear his take on supercross vs motocross.


I do recall him in one of the early Moto movies maybe #4 saying he wanted to head to America and race supercross but that was years ago......
Ray_MXS
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12/6/2018 10:56am
I can't believe you guys are still beating on this poor horse
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Lightning78
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12/6/2018 11:08am
drt410 wrote:
He doesnt race sx... so yes when the suns out hes the fastest, when it goes down hes not. Thats not even up for interpretation its...
He doesnt race sx... so yes when the suns out hes the fastest, when it goes down hes not. Thats not even up for interpretation its just how it is.
So what happens IF MX Sports has another night time national like Thunder Valley?......Is gonna be the fastest then?
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Ray_MXS
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12/6/2018 11:13am
So what happens IF MX Sports has another night time national like Thunder Valley?......Is gonna be the fastest then?

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12/6/2018 11:16am
Sideways wrote:
Give him a year and he would dominate sx aswell. I cant even understand the people saying that he could not be good at sx. roczen,musquin...
Give him a year and he would dominate sx aswell. I cant even understand the people saying that he could not be good at sx. roczen,musquin and ferrandis are doing fine. Why wouldnt herlings that is much faster than them? lol

https://youtu.be/n9FXeC0Q6Qg
I'm quite certain Herlings could become "competitive" in SX but dominate would have to be proved out. The style with which he rules MX does not...
I'm quite certain Herlings could become "competitive" in SX but dominate would have to be proved out. The style with which he rules MX does not automatically transfer to SX.
Agreed. His style doesn't mesh with SX at all. He would adapt though. I have no doubt about it, but how long would it take to change his style for SX? That's what I'd like to know.
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Lucifa.
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12/6/2018 11:24am
Jeffrey Herlings fights his way through the pack to pass Dungey for the win in the SMX Cup

You forget about this DC?


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Sideways
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12/6/2018 12:02pm
Lucifa. wrote:
Jeffrey Herlings fights his way through the pack to pass Dungey for the win in the SMX Cup

You forget about this DC?


Yes herlings rode great there!
But thats not supercross.. thats a sandy mx track that happens to be indoors.
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Lucifa.
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12/6/2018 12:04pm
Lucifa. wrote:
Jeffrey Herlings fights his way through the pack to pass Dungey for the win in the SMX Cup

You forget about this DC?


Sideways wrote:
Yes herlings rode great there!
But thats not supercross.. thats a sandy mx track that happens to be indoors.
Like Daytona supercross but outdoors?
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ATKpilot99
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12/6/2018 12:09pm
Lucifa. wrote:
Jeffrey Herlings fights his way through the pack to pass Dungey for the win in the SMX Cup

You forget about this DC?


Sideways wrote:
Yes herlings rode great there!
But thats not supercross.. thats a sandy mx track that happens to be indoors.
Lucifa. wrote:
Like Daytona supercross but outdoors?
That track is like Daytona in say 1977.
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DPR250R
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12/6/2018 12:13pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
That track is like Daytona in say 1977.
That..... was fucken funny.
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early
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12/6/2018 12:14pm
DC was right, when the sun goes down JH forgets how to ride.

You forgot about this Lucifa?

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ruy
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12/6/2018 12:22pm
Barrett57 wrote:
You lot still crying about being nailed by the Euros? That's nothing compared to what's coming your way in Assen :laugh: If your feelings get hurt...
You lot still crying about being nailed by the Euros? That's nothing compared to what's coming your way in Assen Laughing

If your feelings get hurt this easily you could always have a participation trophy?
I'm not sure they're going to participate in Assen.
MiguelT.
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12/6/2018 12:36pm
its very understandable, when every year 50% of guys are out with injuries.
DC
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12/6/2018 12:37pm Edited Date/Time 12/6/2018 1:43pm
Thanks for reading guys, and I meant ZERO disrespect to Jeffrey or anyone else who doesn't race supercross -- he is the fastest motocross rider on the planet in 2018, and he showed that 17 out of 19 MXGP races and was pretty darn good at the MXoN (but he didn't win the outright, his teammate Coldenhoff did, and he was very happy for Glenn). We named him Rider of the Year over some great guys on both circuits, AMA and FIM. But he focuses on outdoor, daytime races; others split their focus on night stadium racing and "pure motocross." We talked about it and he was incredibly complimentary if what guys are up against here, but also proud of what he's doing over there (and here when he visits) and knows it's two different worlds... Hence the title, "Best of Both Worlds."

After the MXoN race Roger DeCoster literally said we (AMA guys) are falling behind in motocross because we spend 70% of our time (and most development time) working on SX gains and technique, and it hurts when we race extremely good guys who focus entirely on moto and make gains on their bikes year after year (and gains that don't always translate with AMA counterparts). Jeffrey rightfully won Ironman and WW Ranch and RedBud MXoN, but he will tell you he would not be anywhere near the front at Anaheim, Indianapolis, Dallas, Seattle.... though Herlings-vs.-Tomac at Daytona would be the Race of the Year, but I worry Assen will be way sandier than Daytona could ever dream next September, and the Dutch fans will be expecting a team win and a Herlings romp.

But in case you still don't understand my wording, or believe me, here is exactly what Jeffrey and I talked about a couple weeks ago for the article (and he was thrilled to be named 2018 Racer X Rider of the Year, and was also on the cover the month before)....

Has Herlings ever thought of following his former rivals Marvin Musquin and Ken Roczen to America?

“I did for some time, yes, but I also knew that I would probably be homesick if I did go,” he admits. “I was over in the U.S. in 2011 because the plan then was to win the MX2 championship and then go to the USA. I was there for, like, four weeks, but I crashed my brains out five times in the whoops, so I was scared of the whoops at that point! But seriously, after those three or four weeks, I was very homesick. I knew if I was ever going to live there, I was going to have to bring my whole family, but they didn’t really want to leave Holland, or even Europe, to move to the U.S. So I would have had to move alone at the age of 18, but I was already really happy in Europe. I stayed and won a championship, then I won the next championship, my contracts were all good and I was enjoying. Pretty soon you’re getting older and older, and I thought, All right, I’m just going to stay in Europe.”
Supercross is not easy to learn when one lives in sandy Holland or Belgium, explains Herlings. “We have a lot of sand here so you have to go south to France to find the kind of dirt you need, and that five or six hours’ drive just to get to some little supercross track. It will be all dry and slick, not all well-prepped and watered and perfect dirt like you have in California and Florida. And that’s why you have all of the supercross racers that are coming from Europe are from France—they have the dirt and the tracks that the rest of Europe doesn’t.”

I like Jeffrey Herlings a lot, I was not discounting what he did as a motocross racer. He did about as much as anyway ever has in a single season of motocross, and we rewarded him with the honor of being the 2018 Racer X Rider of the Year because he did more in MX alone than anyone else did in SX and MX combined in 2018.

DC
Racer X


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Prejump
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12/6/2018 1:03pm
I think the thing with Herlings is, becoming that strong in sand is a really really big deal.

Many riders workout how to ride SX. Yes it's very high stakes, but if your a pro level rider your work the timings out. Nowadays all the riders hit the triple, dragons back etc. On a well prepped SX track lap times are similar between the top 15 or so.

Now switch to a track Lommel, or Leirop. How many pro level riders can get anywhere near the lap times of a sand specialist ? Hardly any. Working out how to find the rhythm Jeffery does in the deep sand is close to impossible for 99% of pro riders.

So if you were Herlings & have that world leading talent, ace card why would you switch to a country where there is no deep sand for you to exercise that skill ? Why would you switch to SX where almost any pro rider can work it out & go a similar speed ?

Being a MXGP world champ is the pinnacle of dirt bike racing because the tracks separate the men from the boys to the greatest degree.

SX has the marketability, it has the most extreme jumps, but its certainly does not require most talent to win. That is with MXGP & always will be.

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Lucifa.
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12/6/2018 1:28pm Edited Date/Time 12/6/2018 1:33pm
early wrote:
DC was right, when the sun goes down JH forgets how to ride.

You forgot about this Lucifa?

Not at all mate. What I'm trying to say is that Herlings can actually ride SX. He just chooses not to for whatever his reason.

EDIT: Just saw DC's post above. He's scared of the whoops and gets homesick.
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DC
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12/6/2018 1:34pm Edited Date/Time 12/6/2018 1:41pm
If Herlings wanted to race SX, he would figure it out... But it's a risk that Albertyn, Tortelli, King, Chiodi and Rattray have taken on with tough results, and something JMB, Pichon, Vuillemin and Pourcel (and Musquin and Roczen) had better results with... It's gamble he's chosen not to take, like Everts and Cairoli, and who can blame him? (Don't really count Reed's brief MXGP career.)

Oh, and remember this: the last two U.S-born FIM World MX Champs, Bob Moore and Donny Schmit, were 125cc AMA Supercross Champs first. It's part of the culture here. Full stop.

DC
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early
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12/6/2018 1:48pm
early wrote:
DC was right, when the sun goes down JH forgets how to ride.

You forgot about this Lucifa?

Lucifa. wrote:
Not at all mate. What I'm trying to say is that Herlings can actually ride SX. He just chooses not to for whatever his reason. EDIT...
Not at all mate. What I'm trying to say is that Herlings can actually ride SX. He just chooses not to for whatever his reason.

EDIT: Just saw DC's post above. He's scared of the whoops and gets homesick.
SMX was as far from Americam SX that you could get. Disappointing we never see him in Paris, Geneva or Genoa.
Hank_Thrill
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12/6/2018 1:57pm Edited Date/Time 12/7/2018 10:23am
Sideways wrote:
Give him a year and he would dominate sx aswell. I cant even understand the people saying that he could not be good at sx. roczen,musquin...
Give him a year and he would dominate sx aswell. I cant even understand the people saying that he could not be good at sx. roczen,musquin and ferrandis are doing fine. Why wouldnt herlings that is much faster than them? lol

https://youtu.be/n9FXeC0Q6Qg
Yeah, well, uh.... That track is too smooth. Lets see him ride a real supercross track with ruts and bumps!!! Tongue
The aptitude to be a great supercross rider is there. It just comes down to his choice.
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Frank
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12/6/2018 1:58pm
MXGP Motocross is 100% a completely different sport from FIM Supercross. Both are awesome. This is not the 90's anymore. The usa guys need to focus on only 1 of the 2 sports if they want to still compete at the top level of motocross. The teams have full control of making this happen. Time to call them out not the riders.
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