KTM aluminum frame

tek14
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tek14 1/13/2018 12:10am
1/13/2018 12:10am
Lastander wrote:
The problem to me is not weight, its how heavy the bike feels. I weigh 140 pounds so im not a very big guy, and my...
The problem to me is not weight, its how heavy the bike feels.
I weigh 140 pounds so im not a very big guy, and my current bike is a -17 Crf450 as i am waiting for my -18, the bike i hade before that was a -16 450sxf.
Many claim to feel a weight difference and all that, i never felt a difference in weight in the pits, but damn did i feel it on the track!
The ktm feels soooo heavy compared to ANY Honda, it was near impossible to throw a whip with the orange POS.
good troll..
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smezmx 1/13/2018 12:20am
1/13/2018 12:20am
What'sStoppingYou? wrote:
Anyone know if KTM has ever tested an aluminum frame for the MX bikes? If they keep pushing for lightweight, it would seem like a logical...
Anyone know if KTM has ever tested an aluminum frame for the MX bikes?

If they keep pushing for lightweight, it would seem like a logical step.

The 2005 YZ250 aluminum frame was 5 pounds lighter than the 2004 and had similar characteristics. I’m aware that it wasn’t exactly the same and not liked by some, namely Chad Reed, but with more development I think they could have gotten it right.

I always hear about how the Japanese OEM’s use aluminum because it’s cheaper, so I don’t think it’s cost prohibitive. Or, is the cost savings only realized by using the street bike style frames that Yamaha, Suzuki, Honda and Kawasaki utilize?
Yes they did,back around 2002 i think.the pilot was swiss ktm rider philipe dupasquier......






mx317
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mx317 1/13/2018 5:14am
1/13/2018 5:14am
smezmx wrote:
Yes they did,back around 2002 i think.the pilot was swiss ktm rider philipe dupasquier...... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/01/13/237692/s1200_IMG_3793.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/01/13/237693/s1200_IMG_0093.jpg[/img]
Yes they did,back around 2002 i think.the pilot was swiss ktm rider philipe dupasquier......






I thought from memory that KTM wasn't behind the frame on that bike, but the team had their own frame built. I could be wrong because that was quite some time back.
wideopen198 1/13/2018 5:40am
1/13/2018 5:40am
Cygrace74 wrote:
KTM doesn't need to get anymore light weight, they're already 5 years ahead of all the other brands in the weight department.
Travis_Hudson wrote:
The chromoly frames actually weigh less than the aluminum ones.
Yes they weigh less because KTM shaved off so much material which affects the durability of the frame big time. The Japanese can also make a lighter aluminum frame but they choose to be on the safe side. (which doesn't mean they are unbreakable)

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BobPA
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BobPA 1/13/2018 5:49am
1/13/2018 5:49am
Should rename this thread speculation 101.
H4L
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H4L 1/13/2018 6:38am
1/13/2018 6:38am
Motofinne wrote:
You suck at whips then. Haha, i'm just joking! Every individual has it's own preferences and we have 6 different major brands with lots of models...
You suck at whips then. Haha, i'm just joking!

Every individual has it's own preferences and we have 6 different major brands with lots of models. Then we can add TM, Alta and various enduro brands and the result is a bike for everyone!

That is such a good thing about MX/offroad at the moment. There is a perfect bike out there for everyone! Some might not like a KTM, Yamaha, Honda or what ever, guess what? There are so many good bikes out there at the moment that in a 99% certainty there will be one that fits that person like a glove.

There is way too much negativity when it comes to riding and our sport these days. It actually looks pretty good from my view. Especially since electric bikes are coming.
Well said.. Personally I'm not ready for electric bikes..
#434
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#434 1/13/2018 6:45am
1/13/2018 6:45am
A big reason for KTM to use steel is that they don't have the knowledge and production capabilities to make an aluminium frame as good and to a comparable price as the Japanese. The Japanese have decades of experience with casting, hydroforming and welding aluminium frames in a very cost efficient way.
smezmx
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smezmx 1/13/2018 6:48am
1/13/2018 6:48am
mx317 wrote:
I thought from memory that KTM wasn't behind the frame on that bike, but the team had their own frame built. I could be wrong because...
I thought from memory that KTM wasn't behind the frame on that bike, but the team had their own frame built. I could be wrong because that was quite some time back.
Ahh,i think you may be right,can't remember for sure now.....
motoXracer971
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motoXracer971 1/13/2018 7:46am
1/13/2018 7:46am Edited Date/Time 1/13/2018 7:52am
Lastander wrote:
The problem to me is not weight, its how heavy the bike feels. I weigh 140 pounds so im not a very big guy, and my...
The problem to me is not weight, its how heavy the bike feels.
I weigh 140 pounds so im not a very big guy, and my current bike is a -17 Crf450 as i am waiting for my -18, the bike i hade before that was a -16 450sxf.
Many claim to feel a weight difference and all that, i never felt a difference in weight in the pits, but damn did i feel it on the track!
The ktm feels soooo heavy compared to ANY Honda, it was near impossible to throw a whip with the orange POS.
Motofinne wrote:
You suck at whips then. Haha, i'm just joking! Every individual has it's own preferences and we have 6 different major brands with lots of models...
You suck at whips then. Haha, i'm just joking!

Every individual has it's own preferences and we have 6 different major brands with lots of models. Then we can add TM, Alta and various enduro brands and the result is a bike for everyone!

That is such a good thing about MX/offroad at the moment. There is a perfect bike out there for everyone! Some might not like a KTM, Yamaha, Honda or what ever, guess what? There are so many good bikes out there at the moment that in a 99% certainty there will be one that fits that person like a glove.

There is way too much negativity when it comes to riding and our sport these days. It actually looks pretty good from my view. Especially since electric bikes are coming.
Wow... I'm not committed to any one brand but I do ride a KTM presently, and I've ridden every other bike on their current platform (except Husky), and the KTM feels lighter everywhere to me...the stand, the track, the ramp (into the truck)...everywhere. Like, noticeably lighter.

*edit: and whipable, because that is important too!?

If you're trolling: well dammit, you got me

If you're serious: you're just justifying buying a Honda because the duals look cool
metal_miracle 1/13/2018 7:47am
1/13/2018 7:47am
If i remember correct that frame was made since the rider was a bit short.

Lastander
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Lastander 1/13/2018 7:53am
1/13/2018 7:53am
motoXracer971 wrote:
Wow... I'm not committed to any one brand but I do ride a KTM presently, and I've ridden every other bike on their current platform (except...
Wow... I'm not committed to any one brand but I do ride a KTM presently, and I've ridden every other bike on their current platform (except Husky), and the KTM feels lighter everywhere to me...the stand, the track, the ramp (into the truck)...everywhere. Like, noticeably lighter.

*edit: and whipable, because that is important too!?

If you're trolling: well dammit, you got me

If you're serious: you're just justifying buying a Honda because the duals look cool
Why the fuck would i justfify the duals? Ive been on Honda since -04 so im pretty biased, but to answer your question, no im not trolling.
The bike felt like a pig, whats interesting though is that when the sxf broke for the 60th time i got to try my buddys -16 yzf with pretty trick suspension, best bike i have ever ridden hands down.
colintrax
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colintrax 1/13/2018 7:54am
1/13/2018 7:54am
This topic comes up every year, and every year I have to say it's all about the money. Aluminum frames are cheaper to make. Simple as that.
mx317
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mx317 1/13/2018 8:15am
1/13/2018 8:15am
#434 wrote:
A big reason for KTM to use steel is that they don't have the knowledge and production capabilities to make an aluminium frame as good and...
A big reason for KTM to use steel is that they don't have the knowledge and production capabilities to make an aluminium frame as good and to a comparable price as the Japanese. The Japanese have decades of experience with casting, hydroforming and welding aluminium frames in a very cost efficient way.
Yeah, I like those steel KTM swing arms. I think they could make one if they thought it was better.
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seth505 1/13/2018 8:31am
1/13/2018 8:31am
Laughing Laughing Laughing
Lawrence929 1/13/2018 8:43am
1/13/2018 8:43am
motoXracer971 wrote:
Wow... I'm not committed to any one brand but I do ride a KTM presently, and I've ridden every other bike on their current platform (except...
Wow... I'm not committed to any one brand but I do ride a KTM presently, and I've ridden every other bike on their current platform (except Husky), and the KTM feels lighter everywhere to me...the stand, the track, the ramp (into the truck)...everywhere. Like, noticeably lighter.

*edit: and whipable, because that is important too!?

If you're trolling: well dammit, you got me

If you're serious: you're just justifying buying a Honda because the duals look cool
Lastander wrote:
Why the fuck would i justfify the duals? Ive been on Honda since -04 so im pretty biased, but to answer your question, no im not...
Why the fuck would i justfify the duals? Ive been on Honda since -04 so im pretty biased, but to answer your question, no im not trolling.
The bike felt like a pig, whats interesting though is that when the sxf broke for the 60th time i got to try my buddys -16 yzf with pretty trick suspension, best bike i have ever ridden hands down.
Are you on PEDs?
motoXracer971
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motoXracer971 1/13/2018 9:03am
1/13/2018 9:03am Edited Date/Time 1/13/2018 9:03am
motoXracer971 wrote:
Wow... I'm not committed to any one brand but I do ride a KTM presently, and I've ridden every other bike on their current platform (except...
Wow... I'm not committed to any one brand but I do ride a KTM presently, and I've ridden every other bike on their current platform (except Husky), and the KTM feels lighter everywhere to me...the stand, the track, the ramp (into the truck)...everywhere. Like, noticeably lighter.

*edit: and whipable, because that is important too!?

If you're trolling: well dammit, you got me

If you're serious: you're just justifying buying a Honda because the duals look cool
Lastander wrote:
Why the fuck would i justfify the duals? Ive been on Honda since -04 so im pretty biased, but to answer your question, no im not...
Why the fuck would i justfify the duals? Ive been on Honda since -04 so im pretty biased, but to answer your question, no im not trolling.
The bike felt like a pig, whats interesting though is that when the sxf broke for the 60th time i got to try my buddys -16 yzf with pretty trick suspension, best bike i have ever ridden hands down.
It was a joke, man. Sorry you had such bad luck with the KTM. I have not had the same issues as you. Aside from the stock spokes being shit the bike has been solid. No issues whatsoever. I just can't fathom feeling like the KTM is heavy, especially in comparison to other current 450s. The Yamaha especially.

Of the other bikes I've ridden the Honda & Kawi do feel pretty light on the track when compared to the others. As far as how they feel on the track (my opinion of course) 1.KTM 2.Honda/Kawi 3.Suzuki (17 model) 4.Yam (17 model)
Lastander
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Lastander 1/13/2018 9:06am
1/13/2018 9:06am
motoXracer971 wrote:
It was a joke, man. Sorry you had such bad luck with the KTM. I have not had the same issues as you. Aside from the...
It was a joke, man. Sorry you had such bad luck with the KTM. I have not had the same issues as you. Aside from the stock spokes being shit the bike has been solid. No issues whatsoever. I just can't fathom feeling like the KTM is heavy, especially in comparison to other current 450s. The Yamaha especially.

Of the other bikes I've ridden the Honda & Kawi do feel pretty light on the track when compared to the others. As far as how they feel on the track (my opinion of course) 1.KTM 2.Honda/Kawi 3.Suzuki (17 model) 4.Yam (17 model)
I havent ridden one bit the same goes with the Zook i guess, heaviest in the class i think and still feels nimble on the track or so i have heard
Frank
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Frank 1/13/2018 9:51am
1/13/2018 9:51am
Shouldn't the question be .......when are the little 4 going to ditch those street bike frames?

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TerryB
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TerryB 1/13/2018 9:57am
1/13/2018 9:57am Edited Date/Time 1/13/2018 9:59am
Jmicmoto13 wrote:
I think this excerpt from that article pretty much explains it: We are 100 percent committed to steel frames. The problem with an aluminum frame is...
I think this excerpt from that article pretty much explains it:

We are 100 percent committed to steel frames. The problem with an aluminum frame is you need much more space, and you want to make an off-road bike as small and light as possible. We have five different off-road models with gas tanks ranging from 6 to 12 liters. If you go to an aluminum frame, it’s almost impossible to create a big fuel tank in a normal shape. Another thing is flex is quite hard to get right. Development of a steel frame is also much easier. With aluminum you have different castings and machined pieces, and with steel you just cut the tube and weld it. You can make many different versions in a short time, which makes it faster to develop new things for production.
What about the Yamaha 2-stroke frames? I’m not an engineer, but I think the current homogenous look/layout of the current Japanese 4-stroke frame is more about market-appeal than the 2-stroke aluminum frame design being inferior to perimeter styles. Then again, the taller, wider, heavier 4-stroke motors probably necessitate the perimeter style. Again, I’m no engineer.

I think that article is full of PR justification for their steel frames. Don’t get me wrong, there were some legit reasons listed for not going that direction; mostly huge R&D time and money, along with the risk of meddling with a handling package that is arguably at (or near) the top of the heap. It’s risky to mess with success.

FWIW, I am a KTM/Husky fan and I think that their chromoly frames are sweet. Just playing Devil’s Advocate here.

SeaClassExpert 1/13/2018 10:02am
1/13/2018 10:02am
mx317 wrote:
Yeah, I like those steel KTM swing arms. I think they could make one if they thought it was better.
Holy cow thank you lol. Good thing the master cylinders, engine cases, and hubs are all made of steel too.
#434
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#434 1/13/2018 10:13am
1/13/2018 10:13am Edited Date/Time 1/13/2018 10:20am
#434 wrote:
A big reason for KTM to use steel is that they don't have the knowledge and production capabilities to make an aluminium frame as good and...
A big reason for KTM to use steel is that they don't have the knowledge and production capabilities to make an aluminium frame as good and to a comparable price as the Japanese. The Japanese have decades of experience with casting, hydroforming and welding aluminium frames in a very cost efficient way.
mx317 wrote:
Yeah, I like those steel KTM swing arms. I think they could make one if they thought it was better.
Great example: KTM is the only manufacturer with a full aluminium cast swingarm. The Japanese have all a combination of hydroformed tubes and cast piece welded together. KTM doesn't do hydroforming and aluminium welding.
#434
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#434 1/13/2018 10:20am
1/13/2018 10:20am
mx317 wrote:
Yeah, I like those steel KTM swing arms. I think they could make one if they thought it was better.
SeaClassExpert wrote:
Holy cow thank you lol. Good thing the master cylinders, engine cases, and hubs are all made of steel too.
Yep, all parts KTM buys from suppliers..
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ML512 1/13/2018 10:45am
1/13/2018 10:45am
mx317 wrote:
Yeah, I like those steel KTM swing arms. I think they could make one if they thought it was better.
SeaClassExpert wrote:
Holy cow thank you lol. Good thing the master cylinders, engine cases, and hubs are all made of steel too.
#434 wrote:
Yep, all parts KTM buys from suppliers..
Frames, radiators, suspension, and swingarms are made by WP...which they own.
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Rhino 1/13/2018 10:55am
1/13/2018 10:55am
The Fantic Chro Mo frames look awesome.
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seth505 1/13/2018 11:01am
1/13/2018 11:01am
#434 wrote:
A big reason for KTM to use steel is that they don't have the knowledge and production capabilities to make an aluminium frame as good and...
A big reason for KTM to use steel is that they don't have the knowledge and production capabilities to make an aluminium frame as good and to a comparable price as the Japanese. The Japanese have decades of experience with casting, hydroforming and welding aluminium frames in a very cost efficient way.
mx317 wrote:
Yeah, I like those steel KTM swing arms. I think they could make one if they thought it was better.
#434 wrote:
Great example: KTM is the only manufacturer with a full aluminium cast swingarm. The Japanese have all a combination of hydroformed tubes and cast piece welded...
Great example: KTM is the only manufacturer with a full aluminium cast swingarm. The Japanese have all a combination of hydroformed tubes and cast piece welded together. KTM doesn't do hydroforming and aluminium welding.
You dont think the company welds aluminum?
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Rhino 1/13/2018 11:06am
1/13/2018 11:06am
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crusher773 1/13/2018 11:24am
1/13/2018 11:24am
crusher773 wrote:
I hope not. Aluminum frames ride like crap compared to the KTM steel.
kiwifan wrote:
So how do you explain the 2018 Zook and Honda being raved as great handling bikes in shootouts?
Guys rating them that are used to aluminum. Aluminum has no feel or feedback. It's so rigid it's terrible.
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kiwifan 1/13/2018 12:04pm
1/13/2018 12:04pm
Lastander wrote:
The problem to me is not weight, its how heavy the bike feels. I weigh 140 pounds so im not a very big guy, and my...
The problem to me is not weight, its how heavy the bike feels.
I weigh 140 pounds so im not a very big guy, and my current bike is a -17 Crf450 as i am waiting for my -18, the bike i hade before that was a -16 450sxf.
Many claim to feel a weight difference and all that, i never felt a difference in weight in the pits, but damn did i feel it on the track!
The ktm feels soooo heavy compared to ANY Honda, it was near impossible to throw a whip with the orange POS.
tek14 wrote:
good troll..
coming from someone who said the non-KTM bikes weight 20 kgs more in an earlier post.....
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kiwifan 1/13/2018 12:05pm
1/13/2018 12:05pm
crusher773 wrote:
I hope not. Aluminum frames ride like crap compared to the KTM steel.
kiwifan wrote:
So how do you explain the 2018 Zook and Honda being raved as great handling bikes in shootouts?
crusher773 wrote:
Guys rating them that are used to aluminum. Aluminum has no feel or feedback. It's so rigid it's terrible.
come on man!!! shessshhhh
#434
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#434 1/13/2018 5:31pm
1/13/2018 5:31pm
SeaClassExpert wrote:
Holy cow thank you lol. Good thing the master cylinders, engine cases, and hubs are all made of steel too.
#434 wrote:
Yep, all parts KTM buys from suppliers..
ML512 wrote:
Frames, radiators, suspension, and swingarms are made by WP...which they own.
Sure WP makes the swingarms? I thought all cast parts come from outside suppliers.

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