Vital MX Poll: Should Chad Reed Receive a Penalty?

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Vital MX Poll
Chad Reed
St. Louis
Supercross 2017
Ryan Dungey
Monster Energy Supercross
Phantom 661
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Phantom 661 4/2/2017 8:28pm
4/2/2017 8:28pm
VRR7 wrote:
The people that wrote the rule book say REED did nothing wrong ! So for all the RD crybabies run to your mommies and squeal that...
The people that wrote the rule book say REED did nothing wrong ! So for all the RD crybabies run to your mommies and squeal that the AMA knows nothing about the rules of SX !
The problem is that we fans also have a copy of the AMA rules.... and in my opinion Reed blatantly violated one in St. Louis . One doesn't have to be an official to determine that. However, one does have to be an official to enforce it.
brightlights
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brightlights 4/2/2017 8:34pm
4/2/2017 8:34pm
Jrewing wrote:
It's all shit. Ryan fucked up Reed last week then this week in the heat he cracked it at Reed. Reed saw him coming and went...
It's all shit.
Ryan fucked up Reed last week then this week in the heat he cracked it at Reed.
Reed saw him coming and went Well Well Well...

Lesson here... Shit happens and who gets shat on last the stink lingers longest!
Lucifa. wrote:
Reed was a fucking lapper. If you can't stay on the lead lap, piss off.
I would like to add that Reed should get the hell out of the way when he is getting lapped. Yamy should remind him that they aren't paying for a louse to cruise in 16th, and he should try not to draw attn to himself when he is running 16th, and more importantly while getting lapped, by the other brands, while riding on their bike. I hope Yamaha is not going for the "hire the old guy to sell the other old guys motorcycles, even if he has to get in the leaders way while getting lapped, to get attention" approach. Its starting to look that way. Hell, hes got 5 other brands in front of him AND his teamate in front of him and he decides to stay in the race line when Dungey comes to lap him. He has no respect for the race that he competes in, and is just drawing a paycheck while clowning around. Someone remind Reed that on this "grampa is hangin on to the longevity trophy" retirement tour he's on, he needs to remember there is a race on the track and when he isnt on the lead lap anymore, he is not to impede the faster rider's progress. (Hey AMA you got your ears on there?) When you set back a leader 3 seconds over a 3 lap period, you become the clown of the show. Anything different then we ought not call this racing anymore. Buncha softies runnin this circus city.
TbonesPop 4/2/2017 8:38pm
4/2/2017 8:38pm
Phantom 661 wrote:
The problem is that we fans also have a copy of the AMA rules.... and in my opinion Reed blatantly violated one in St. Louis...
The problem is that we fans also have a copy of the AMA rules.... and in my opinion Reed blatantly violated one in St. Louis . One doesn't have to be an official to determine that. However, one does have to be an official to enforce it.
And if the AMA doesn't enforce the rules in that race with as blatant as Reed was in violating the rules, then they have set a very bad precedent for the future. But that's nothing new with the AMA enforcing rules when they feel like it i.e. there is a lot of inconsistency with the AMA. But that was so bad last night, I don't know how they ever enforce a blue flag ever again with any credibility. The precedent is set that blue flags don't matter.

IMO, the AMA needs to come out and make a statement - 1) either they blew it and should have done something or 2) say what Reed did was legal. If they come out and publicly say #2, whoa nelly there is a serious can of worms opened.
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jhorner211 4/2/2017 8:39pm
4/2/2017 8:39pm
Jrewing wrote:
It's all shit. Ryan fucked up Reed last week then this week in the heat he cracked it at Reed. Reed saw him coming and went...
It's all shit.
Ryan fucked up Reed last week then this week in the heat he cracked it at Reed.
Reed saw him coming and went Well Well Well...

Lesson here... Shit happens and who gets shat on last the stink lingers longest!
Lucifa. wrote:
Reed was a fucking lapper. If you can't stay on the lead lap, piss off.
Jrewing wrote:
Yep but dunge made him pissed. I'd do the same if I had a bone to pick. Life lesson as I said. Life's a bitch and...
Yep but dunge made him pissed. I'd do the same if I had a bone to pick.

Life lesson as I said. Life's a bitch and "it's only a race"!

I'm a fan of both guys but Tomac is my man. No stopping him so next week it'll be a new story..
Missed what dungey said. Can anyone bring me up to speed?

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Braap19
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Braap19 4/2/2017 8:43pm
4/2/2017 8:43pm
Lucifa. wrote:
Reed was a fucking lapper. If you can't stay on the lead lap, piss off.
Jrewing wrote:
Yep but dunge made him pissed. I'd do the same if I had a bone to pick. Life lesson as I said. Life's a bitch and...
Yep but dunge made him pissed. I'd do the same if I had a bone to pick.

Life lesson as I said. Life's a bitch and "it's only a race"!

I'm a fan of both guys but Tomac is my man. No stopping him so next week it'll be a new story..
jhorner211 wrote:
Missed what dungey said. Can anyone bring me up to speed?
Long story short he said he didnt appreciate reed cutting into his lines while they were racing. Said it was just not needed and that he thought chad was more mature.

Back to the discussion. Reed broke the rules regardless of what Ryan said in his interview. Ryan didnt break a rule, this shit is black and white. Reed broke a rule without an iota of doubt. Penalize him.
TbonesPop 4/2/2017 8:44pm
4/2/2017 8:44pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2017 8:45pm
jhorner211 wrote:
Missed what dungey said. Can anyone bring me up to speed?
I'm paraphrasing, but he said something like "I'm not sure what Reed was doing out there, but he was trying to take us out and cross over lines. It was really immature". It was a weird statement from him. I saw nothing in the heat race to justify those comments. Now, the main was totally F'd. But the heat, Reed did nothing wrong. I have no idea what Dungey was complaining about.
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dkg 4/2/2017 8:44pm
4/2/2017 8:44pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2017 8:48pm
TbonesPop wrote:
That was a text book violation of the rules when it comes to what not to do when getting the blue flag (i.e. being lapped). I...
That was a text book violation of the rules when it comes to what not to do when getting the blue flag (i.e. being lapped). I witnessed in person Reed crossing up his lines to always stay in the main race line and hold Dungey up in the race, not "holding his line" and "letting the faster rider overtake him". It was also obvious by the hand gesture from Reed to Dungey and vice versa after the race was over. It was as obvious as day what he was doing. Anyone with a half of an unbiased brain could figure it out. Reed should have been punished for the act during the race but he wasn't. It is what it is. Now that it's over, you can't punish him after the fact. They blew it.

The brutal reality is, the AMA just set a really bad precedent. How, after that ridiculous display of rules violation by Reed, can they ever enforce any rules with respect to the blue flags and not come off as inconsistent or unbiased? They either have to admit that "they blew it" and say they should have done something and didn't, or they just set a precedent that is very dangerous for future races.

Say Anderson goes down and is back in the pack of a race (he's a training partner with Dungey and they are friends - yet not a team mate). If getting lapped, he could totally run interference and slow down Tomac to help Dungey and it would be totally legit based on letting Reed do what he did. I'm not saying it would be right, but the AMA doing nothing opened this can of worms. Should be interesting to see what comes of it. If they simply deny any wrong doing by Reed, this championship race could get really interesting.
Well reasoned. However, I believe the rules do allow up until 5pm Monday for imposition of a penalty. To wit;

Rule Book Appendix A part A1(c-f)

c.The Race Director has the competence to pronounce sanctions against riders, team staff, officials, promoters/organizers and all the persons involved in any capacity whatsoever in an event or in the Championship.

d. The Race Director may pronounce the following penalties.
1. Warning
2. Fine
3. Lap deductions or finishing position deductions
4. Time and/or point penalties
5. Disqualification
6. Suspension
7. Probation not exceeding 12 months from the date of offence

e. Penalties incurred prior to a red flag will be assessed at the completion of the race, not during he the re-start.

f. The Race Director will always attempt to levy all penalties the day of the race. Under some circumstances it may be necessary to take more time to review all evidence and official video to make a final decision. All penalties from the Race Director must be levied by 5pm eastern standard time the Monday after the race. Under special circumstances, including but not limited to, fuel testing, anti-doping or a need to impound a motorcycle or parts, the Race Director may defer to the AMA to make a ruling outside of that timeframe.

And part A2 section c:

c. The following offenses will be subject to disciplinary action by the Race Director and/or the competent bodies. This list is provided as guidance to licensed competitors and event credential holders but does not restrict AMA from invoking penalties for other actions detrimental to the sport that are not specifically contemplated herein.

. . .
15. Failing to immediately respect and comply with operational or warning flags/lights or other signals from racing officials.

. . .

Now I guess we will see the level of "competence'' possessed by the race director.





TbonesPop 4/2/2017 8:51pm
4/2/2017 8:51pm
TbonesPop wrote:
That was a text book violation of the rules when it comes to what not to do when getting the blue flag (i.e. being lapped). I...
That was a text book violation of the rules when it comes to what not to do when getting the blue flag (i.e. being lapped). I witnessed in person Reed crossing up his lines to always stay in the main race line and hold Dungey up in the race, not "holding his line" and "letting the faster rider overtake him". It was also obvious by the hand gesture from Reed to Dungey and vice versa after the race was over. It was as obvious as day what he was doing. Anyone with a half of an unbiased brain could figure it out. Reed should have been punished for the act during the race but he wasn't. It is what it is. Now that it's over, you can't punish him after the fact. They blew it.

The brutal reality is, the AMA just set a really bad precedent. How, after that ridiculous display of rules violation by Reed, can they ever enforce any rules with respect to the blue flags and not come off as inconsistent or unbiased? They either have to admit that "they blew it" and say they should have done something and didn't, or they just set a precedent that is very dangerous for future races.

Say Anderson goes down and is back in the pack of a race (he's a training partner with Dungey and they are friends - yet not a team mate). If getting lapped, he could totally run interference and slow down Tomac to help Dungey and it would be totally legit based on letting Reed do what he did. I'm not saying it would be right, but the AMA doing nothing opened this can of worms. Should be interesting to see what comes of it. If they simply deny any wrong doing by Reed, this championship race could get really interesting.
dkg wrote:
Well reasoned. However, I believe the rules do allow up until 5pm Monday for imposition of a penalty. To wit; Rule Book Appendix A part A1(c-f)...
Well reasoned. However, I believe the rules do allow up until 5pm Monday for imposition of a penalty. To wit;

Rule Book Appendix A part A1(c-f)

c.The Race Director has the competence to pronounce sanctions against riders, team staff, officials, promoters/organizers and all the persons involved in any capacity whatsoever in an event or in the Championship.

d. The Race Director may pronounce the following penalties.
1. Warning
2. Fine
3. Lap deductions or finishing position deductions
4. Time and/or point penalties
5. Disqualification
6. Suspension
7. Probation not exceeding 12 months from the date of offence

e. Penalties incurred prior to a red flag will be assessed at the completion of the race, not during he the re-start.

f. The Race Director will always attempt to levy all penalties the day of the race. Under some circumstances it may be necessary to take more time to review all evidence and official video to make a final decision. All penalties from the Race Director must be levied by 5pm eastern standard time the Monday after the race. Under special circumstances, including but not limited to, fuel testing, anti-doping or a need to impound a motorcycle or parts, the Race Director may defer to the AMA to make a ruling outside of that timeframe.

And part A2 section c:

c. The following offenses will be subject to disciplinary action by the Race Director and/or the competent bodies. This list is provided as guidance to licensed competitors and event credential holders but does not restrict AMA from invoking penalties for other actions detrimental to the sport that are not specifically contemplated herein.

. . .
15. Failing to immediately respect and comply with operational or warning flags/lights or other signals from racing officials.

. . .

Now I guess we will see the level of "competence'' possessed by the race director.





Thank you, really nice work! Agreed 100%, let's see what level of competence the race director has. If he does nothing, man that's a slippery slope he just let the sport go down.
Silas444
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Silas444 4/2/2017 8:53pm
4/2/2017 8:53pm
TbonesPop wrote:
That was a text book violation of the rules when it comes to what not to do when getting the blue flag (i.e. being lapped). I...
That was a text book violation of the rules when it comes to what not to do when getting the blue flag (i.e. being lapped). I witnessed in person Reed crossing up his lines to always stay in the main race line and hold Dungey up in the race, not "holding his line" and "letting the faster rider overtake him". It was also obvious by the hand gesture from Reed to Dungey and vice versa after the race was over. It was as obvious as day what he was doing. Anyone with a half of an unbiased brain could figure it out. Reed should have been punished for the act during the race but he wasn't. It is what it is. Now that it's over, you can't punish him after the fact. They blew it.

The brutal reality is, the AMA just set a really bad precedent. How, after that ridiculous display of rules violation by Reed, can they ever enforce any rules with respect to the blue flags and not come off as inconsistent or unbiased? They either have to admit that "they blew it" and say they should have done something and didn't, or they just set a precedent that is very dangerous for future races.

Say Anderson goes down and is back in the pack of a race (he's a training partner with Dungey and they are friends - yet not a team mate). If getting lapped, he could totally run interference and slow down Tomac to help Dungey and it would be totally legit based on letting Reed do what he did. I'm not saying it would be right, but the AMA doing nothing opened this can of worms. Should be interesting to see what comes of it. If they simply deny any wrong doing by Reed, this championship race could get really interesting.
^^^^^^^ I've read most of the posts on this whole fracas, and this one is the most on-point. I'm old enough to remember the Popenko, Kavinov, Moiseev Communist craziness and what they did to Jaroslav Falta, and I'm also old enough to remember the whole "Let Brock Bye" nuttiness that happened a few years later. Feckless governing bodies notwithstanding, Reed's antics last night were the biggest, most colossal f-up I've seen since those long-ago days. It WILL linger in people's memories, of this I have no doubt, and if Tomac wins this championship by less than six points? UH OH - asterisk city, What Reed did was just....... plain....... dumb. And so are the people defending him.
ledger
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ledger 4/2/2017 8:53pm
4/2/2017 8:53pm
Dungey is vulnerable now, seems he can't keep the humble composure he's known for, even his gestures (head shake) after the race's shows his frustration. The comment's he's made in the last few week's is from pressure, calling someone immature for the whole world to hear was a huge slap in the face to Reed, I think we would all agree it was a WTF moment. Blink I don't think RD will be name calling any more.
Giygas 4/2/2017 10:29pm
4/2/2017 10:29pm
ledger wrote:
Dungey is vulnerable now, seems he can't keep the humble composure he's known for, even his gestures (head shake) after the race's shows his frustration. The...
Dungey is vulnerable now, seems he can't keep the humble composure he's known for, even his gestures (head shake) after the race's shows his frustration. The comment's he's made in the last few week's is from pressure, calling someone immature for the whole world to hear was a huge slap in the face to Reed, I think we would all agree it was a WTF moment. Blink I don't think RD will be name calling any more.
You serious Clark? Dungey was just calling a spade, a spade. He punked out Reed and embarrassed him on national TV. Dungey is under Reed's skin that easily. Lol.
Whitey
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Whitey 4/3/2017 1:01am
4/3/2017 1:01am
Feld wont let the FIM/AMA suspend Chad, he is too big of a draw card whether you like him or not.

Outside this little bubble called Vital do you really think the rest of the racing world are losing their mind over it?

I know now what happens when a large communities menstrual cycle gets in synch......
drop_bear 4/3/2017 1:14am
4/3/2017 1:14am
this is just going to be a never ending argument with people disagreeing with each other and repeating themselves trying to get their point across. what happened wasn't right but it happened, dungey wasn't entirely innocent either. let's move on.
David934
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David934 4/3/2017 4:42am
4/3/2017 4:42am
Really not! Reed NOT holds Dungey. Dung was not able pass him.
vetmxr
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vetmxr 4/3/2017 6:00am
4/3/2017 6:00am
vetmxr wrote:
In my eyes, if your in a championship of any kind....its bad business to badmouth anyone who can cause you problems out on the track. Just...
In my eyes, if your in a championship of any kind....its bad business to badmouth anyone who can cause you problems out on the track. Just one more bad angle you don't need and its so easy to do.....just smile and keep your mouth shut till the fat lady sings.

Why give anyone any reason to mess with you, no matter who it is.

I may be immature but if a guy insulted me.....whether I deserved it or not, I would not forget that shit once out on the track. If I like him and he's going for a championship....I'm out of his way. If he's talking shit, it's play time for a while........if he takes me out its no big deal for me....I'm not in the championship.

I'm not anyone's fan, I'm a fan of the racing, I like them all. I bet Reed was smiling under his helmet, saying to himself..."hows this for immature Dungey"

All he had to do was keep his mouth shut, And he's around Reed in a few corners. In my opinion. I have no problem with either guy....there are many angles to deal with in a championship run...and they aren't all out on the track. Not everyone has the capacity to swallow insults and act mature......there are MEN in the world that will beat your ass when you talk shit about them. Thats just the way they handle THEIR business.
pilotdude wrote:
You are fantastic example of what is wrong with this sport and the world in many ways.
I must admit that I haven't had a chance to watch the race yet.....maybe its worse than I think.......
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M-M 4/3/2017 6:10am
4/3/2017 6:10am
KTM boss finds out about Dungey and Reed

huck
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huck 4/3/2017 6:55am
4/3/2017 6:55am
Whitey wrote:
Feld wont let the FIM/AMA suspend Chad, he is too big of a draw card whether you like him or not. Outside this little bubble called...
Feld wont let the FIM/AMA suspend Chad, he is too big of a draw card whether you like him or not.

Outside this little bubble called Vital do you really think the rest of the racing world are losing their mind over it?

I know now what happens when a large communities menstrual cycle gets in synch......
Yes, I do. I take 4 people with us each year to STL SX. It's the only time all year that they have anything to do with SX.

Before the races we always 'pick' somebody that we want to win and put in $5 each. One of them picked Reed before the race. After that crap he pulled, all 4 said he was a punk and didn't like him.
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vikingmx 4/3/2017 6:56am
4/3/2017 6:56am
St Ann More wrote:
Nah, just retire.
before chad reed was one of my favorite riders.after the dungey incident I think its time to retire..

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Big E
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Big E 4/3/2017 7:09am
4/3/2017 7:09am
Acidreamer wrote:
Reed held his line to allow dungey to pass. Wheres the wrong? dungey just didnt make it happen
ML512 wrote:
Here's the extended description of the blue flag rule: 4.17 Flags and Lights It is the rider’s responsibility to be aware of their surroundings at all...
Here's the extended description of the blue flag rule:

4.17 Flags and Lights
It is the rider’s responsibility to be aware of their surroundings
at all times while on track. Safety is a main priority and the
riders must obey all official signals and directions given to
them. Any rider failing to do so may be penalized.
a. Solid Blue Flag:
1. Indicates you are about to be overtaken by faster riders.
2. When conditions allow, move out of the fast line.
3. Hold your line (don’t ride erratically) and do not impede the
faster riders progress.
4. Riders disregarding the blue flag may be black-flagged at
the discretion of Race Director.
Chad should know better, being a two time champ.That's what makes it so hard for me to swallow. Chad knew what he was doing. He saw Tomac go by. I can only imagine if the shoe was on the other foot what would be happening. Monster conspiracy?

We will never know what COULD have happened in this race.
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ge217 4/3/2017 7:43am
4/3/2017 7:43am
M-M wrote:
KTM boss finds out about Dungey and Reed

Im for Dungey on this deal. However that was good.
TDeath21
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TDeath21 4/3/2017 7:57am
4/3/2017 7:57am
They never enforce riders gaining an advantage off the track. Yet they black flagged Reed immediately after the Canard incident. They're so inconsistent. Nobody knows what they'll do. Reed should be penalized, but we will see.
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dsmith 4/3/2017 8:14am
4/3/2017 8:14am
so we should know about a penalty before 5 pm today?...eastern/central time?...and if no penalty is givin by 5pm..then there will be no penalty for reed?..do I have this straight?
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Jaybird67k 4/3/2017 8:29am
4/3/2017 8:29am
Acidreamer wrote:
Dungey calls chad names on world wide tv and reed is the bad guy. Dungey opened a can of worms he couldnt handle. Simple as that
^^^This^^^
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Stonedmason 4/3/2017 9:00am
4/3/2017 9:00am
Plenty of places he could have passed him but did not take the risk.
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Stuntman949 4/3/2017 9:03am
4/3/2017 9:03am
MX-LIFE. wrote:
Reedy didn't see the blue flag he thought that was a Yamaha..
Probably thought MotoGP fans were cheering him on via Yamaha flags
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diz330 4/3/2017 9:20am
4/3/2017 9:20am
I wonder if JT would have the same opinion if Vince friese held up dungey for 2 laps.
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Dtat720 4/3/2017 9:27am
4/3/2017 9:27am
diz330 wrote:
I wonder if JT would have the same opinion if Vince friese held up dungey for 2 laps.
I doubt Vince would go from running 54-55 second laps before Dungey to running low 52's when he came up behind. Thats what Reed did.
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TeamGreen 4/3/2017 9:38am
4/3/2017 9:38am
Acidreamer wrote:
Reed held his line to allow dungey to pass. Wheres the wrong? dungey just didnt make it happen
ML512 wrote:
Here's the extended description of the blue flag rule: 4.17 Flags and Lights It is the rider’s responsibility to be aware of their surroundings at all...
Here's the extended description of the blue flag rule:

4.17 Flags and Lights
It is the rider’s responsibility to be aware of their surroundings
at all times while on track. Safety is a main priority and the
riders must obey all official signals and directions given to
them. Any rider failing to do so may be penalized.
a. Solid Blue Flag:
1. Indicates you are about to be overtaken by faster riders.
2. When conditions allow, move out of the fast line.
3. Hold your line (don’t ride erratically) and do not impede the
faster riders progress.
4. Riders disregarding the blue flag may be black-flagged at
the discretion of Race Director.
Big E wrote:
Chad should know better, being a two time champ.That's what makes it so hard for me to swallow. Chad knew what he was doing. He saw...
Chad should know better, being a two time champ.That's what makes it so hard for me to swallow. Chad knew what he was doing. He saw Tomac go by. I can only imagine if the shoe was on the other foot what would be happening. Monster conspiracy?

We will never know what COULD have happened in this race.
This.
rob123stew
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rob123stew 4/3/2017 9:43am
4/3/2017 9:43am
Has everyone forgot???? Including the AMA?????? 2009 SaltLake City??????
Kyle Chisholm getting black flagged for getting the way of Reed and Stewart while being lapped. Kyle made on stupid move in one corner and received a black flag. Reed made stupid move after stupid move for three laps!!! Received nothing. Way to go AMA !! You guys rock!

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