2017 250SX & TC's now the best 2T?

jtiger12
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jtiger12 6/10/2016 9:00am
6/10/2016 9:00am Edited Date/Time 6/10/2016 10:13am
Yes. Seen this wp kit before, but i didn't see the verbiage about the 250sx, thanks. I dont really follow ktms at all, but seeing that they kept the stroke at 72mm and the rumored 2017 300xc changes, my gut tells me there will be a direct bolt on 300 cylinder just like the current gen.

Just have to wait a bit longer.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 6/10/2016 1:06pm
6/10/2016 1:06pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Wondering if either ML or even Robbie could comment on what they feel the difference between the two bikes felt like? Maybe a break down to...
Wondering if either ML or even Robbie could comment on what they feel the difference between the two bikes felt like? Maybe a break down to the likes and dislikes of each one?

Shootout ML? Which one did you like best? or is there really not much of a difference?
ML512 wrote:
I'll have Robby jump in here, but I believe he preferred the Husky slightly over the KTM.

I'm working on a 250 two-stroke shootout...
Right on Michael...thank you! Look forward reading what he has to say.

I know most parts are interchangeable between the two. But are there some parts that aren't? I was thinking the entire plastic setup on both bikes were slightly different shape...but basically bolt up in the same spots?
ML512
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ML512 6/10/2016 1:34pm
6/10/2016 1:34pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Wondering if either ML or even Robbie could comment on what they feel the difference between the two bikes felt like? Maybe a break down to...
Wondering if either ML or even Robbie could comment on what they feel the difference between the two bikes felt like? Maybe a break down to the likes and dislikes of each one?

Shootout ML? Which one did you like best? or is there really not much of a difference?
ML512 wrote:
I'll have Robby jump in here, but I believe he preferred the Husky slightly over the KTM.

I'm working on a 250 two-stroke shootout...
jeffro503 wrote:
Right on Michael...thank you! Look forward reading what he has to say. I know most parts are interchangeable between the two. But are there some parts...
Right on Michael...thank you! Look forward reading what he has to say.

I know most parts are interchangeable between the two. But are there some parts that aren't? I was thinking the entire plastic setup on both bikes were slightly different shape...but basically bolt up in the same spots?
The subframe and seat are different, which effects the plastic mounting.
Underground 6/10/2016 2:01pm
6/10/2016 2:01pm
slipdog wrote:
I'm rolling the dice and getting a tc250, just going to pray there's no first year issues like rod or gearbox failures. Luckily KTM/Husky seems to...
I'm rolling the dice and getting a tc250, just going to pray there's no first year issues like rod or gearbox failures. Luckily KTM/Husky seems to be on top of recall issues like that more so than the Japanese brands.
KTM rods (Pankel) have been pretty sound but there has been a few gearbox issues on the new 250F and 450 that is a worry and hope doesn't carry over. Saying that KTM does look after their customers well but a few have been waiting for the parts to be made available with the new models

The Shop

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Underground 6/10/2016 2:11pm
6/10/2016 2:11pm
Cygnus wrote:
Lol counter balancers. That is old quad tech. Hell I think I worked on a three wheeler in the 80's with a counter balance.
And I have worked on tractors and other 2 strokes with counter balancers. Nothing new I know but it is to the 2 stroke MX and enduro market that will make a difference. The extra inertia will add traction and drive like a flywheel weight but with less vibs. Bit like push buttons. Once you had .......... never go back. And yeah I've raced a CR500 in an off road race with 20 minute lap times so I know what real vibration feels like.
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kiwifan 6/10/2016 2:42pm
6/10/2016 2:42pm
Plugga wrote:
If you don't like the topic then don't post.
I see that hasnt stopped you before....pot kettle black?
PJRAUS
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PJRAUS 6/10/2016 3:56pm
6/10/2016 3:56pm
I was reading mxa's list of shootout winning 250 two strokes. It's strange... They preface all YZ 250 tests by saying that it's still the same bike as the 2006 model except for very minor updates. They list it as the winner from 2007 through 2010 then the ktm wins 2011 through 2014 then back to the Yamaha for 15 and 16.
So if the 2011 ktm was better in their estimation than the 2011 Yamaha but the 2016 ktm isn't better than the 2016 Yamaha,which they say is still the same bike....are they trying to say that the 2011,12,13 and 14 model Kim's are actually better than the 2016 model ktm?
Seems very odd to me....just saying.
Anyway I'm keen to go for a 2017 ktm 250 sx, my last bikes were 2009 model yz125 and 250 ,which I thought were excellent
chump6784
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chump6784 6/10/2016 5:28pm
6/10/2016 5:28pm
PJRAUS wrote:
I was reading mxa's list of shootout winning 250 two strokes. It's strange... They preface all YZ 250 tests by saying that it's still the same...
I was reading mxa's list of shootout winning 250 two strokes. It's strange... They preface all YZ 250 tests by saying that it's still the same bike as the 2006 model except for very minor updates. They list it as the winner from 2007 through 2010 then the ktm wins 2011 through 2014 then back to the Yamaha for 15 and 16.
So if the 2011 ktm was better in their estimation than the 2011 Yamaha but the 2016 ktm isn't better than the 2016 Yamaha,which they say is still the same bike....are they trying to say that the 2011,12,13 and 14 model Kim's are actually better than the 2016 model ktm?
Seems very odd to me....just saying.
Anyway I'm keen to go for a 2017 ktm 250 sx, my last bikes were 2009 model yz125 and 250 ,which I thought were excellent
I think they base a lot of their results on how the suspension feels. They hated the 4CS forks and I think that is why the yamaha gets the nod.
The last test they did, the yamaha only won in the suspension package but they gave it the overall win because it felt the most comfortable as a whole.
It probably depends on who the test riders are as well. I'm not sure if they have the same guys ever year but if they didn't it could come down to personal preference on the day

After watching the video of the 17's, none of the riders have said this is the best 2 stroke ever or anything like that. Time will tell when all the bikes are compared but maybe the reason that yamaha haven't updated the yz is that there isn't much more room for improvement.
I have ridden a yz 250 with RAD Valve, PC pipe and R304, lightweight piston and oversized front rotor. It gave nothing away to my ktm in power and the suspension couldn't even be compared. I'm looking at selling my wakeboat and getting back on the bikes and even though the ktm/husky look good and are the newest, I am pretty sure its going to be blue for me
Gukamonster
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Gukamonster 6/10/2016 5:57pm
6/10/2016 5:57pm
This bike will have a 300cc motocross specific cylinder you can buy from the manufacturer just like the previous version of the bike. The off-road TX 300 has the same basic new engine with the counter-balancer. The motocross 300cc kit will be similar but slightly different than the one on that bike.

Two features that mention the 300cc kit:

http://www.dirtrider.com/2017-husqvarna-motocross-bikes-announced#page-9
Photo 8 of 17
"250cc not enough for you? Don’t worry, Husqvarna has a 300cc kit for the 2017 TC 250 for you."

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2016/06/10/190821/
"The TC 250 is incredibly powerful and features a surprisingly linear powerband. However, those looking for even more snap out of their engine can upgrade to a 300cc by installing a new piston and cylinder from Husqvarna."
ipbrew
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ipbrew 6/10/2016 6:29pm
6/10/2016 6:29pm
Everyone seems to be overlooking the TM 2 strokes and their SSS suspension. Moreover, the 150 is an actual 150 as opposed to a 125 with a big bore. I don't know about the 300.
waitn4
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waitn4 6/10/2016 6:47pm
6/10/2016 6:47pm
I watched Robby's video and I thought the bike didn't look comfortable and was running out of top end so bad that he was short shifting and negatively affecting the suspension. The yz250 videos never seemed to have that same challenge.
rocketsocks26 6/10/2016 7:32pm
6/10/2016 7:32pm
@waitin4, watching the video with billy lanoavich the ktm seemed it reved to the moon, i know the husky maybe diffrent though cause of their subframe/ air box
waitn4
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waitn4 6/10/2016 7:57pm
6/10/2016 7:57pm
rocketsocks26 wrote:
@waitin4, watching the video with billy lanoavich the ktm seemed it reved to the moon, i know the husky maybe diffrent though cause of their subframe/...
@waitin4, watching the video with billy lanoavich the ktm seemed it reved to the moon, i know the husky maybe diffrent though cause of their subframe/ air box
Thanks for showing that. He definitely seemed to find more in it than any of the other 250 videos.

I just have this feeling ktm made a very smart decision to focus on broadening the power for their target buyers: slower heavier vet riders.
chump6784
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chump6784 6/10/2016 8:30pm
6/10/2016 8:30pm
ipbrew wrote:
Everyone seems to be overlooking the TM 2 strokes and their SSS suspension. Moreover, the 150 is an actual 150 as opposed to a 125 with...
Everyone seems to be overlooking the TM 2 strokes and their SSS suspension. Moreover, the 150 is an actual 150 as opposed to a 125 with a big bore. I don't know about the 300.
In MXA's latest review of a TM they said that even though it has the SSS suspension it doesn't have the valving specs that yamaha uses and is no where near as good.

I suppose you could copy yamaha's valving if you bought one but you are already paying a lot more initially to then have to copy yamaha's settings
ipbrew
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ipbrew 6/11/2016 10:41am
6/11/2016 10:41am Edited Date/Time 6/11/2016 10:54am
ipbrew wrote:
Everyone seems to be overlooking the TM 2 strokes and their SSS suspension. Moreover, the 150 is an actual 150 as opposed to a 125 with...
Everyone seems to be overlooking the TM 2 strokes and their SSS suspension. Moreover, the 150 is an actual 150 as opposed to a 125 with a big bore. I don't know about the 300.
chump6784 wrote:
In MXA's latest review of a TM they said that even though it has the SSS suspension it doesn't have the valving specs that yamaha uses...
In MXA's latest review of a TM they said that even though it has the SSS suspension it doesn't have the valving specs that yamaha uses and is no where near as good.

I suppose you could copy yamaha's valving if you bought one but you are already paying a lot more initially to then have to copy yamaha's settings
True, though MXA thought the 150 forks were pretty good and the reason they did not copy Yamaha's valving at the factory was extra cost. The 150 has a long stroke motor - which is pretty cool but, a 9k price tag here in the GWN. Still, cool bikes for someone looking non mainstream - if there is good dealer support .

" The last time we tested the TM 144MX, we were appalled by its Kayaba SSS forks. Why? The valving. We thought, why doesn’t TM just take the forks off of a Yamaha YZ125 and put them on the TM 144MX? The answer is that Kayaba has a contract with Yamaha that forbids Kayaba from selling any other manufactuer Kayaba SSS forks with Yamaha’s valving specs in them. Thus, TM can’t get Kayaba SSS forks that match Yamaha’s SSS forks. Why doesn’t TM just re-valve the Kayaba SSS forks to Yamaha specs after they get them from Kayaba? The cost of tearing down every fork on the assembly line and changing the valving would be prohibitive—not for TM’s budget but the consumer’s. So while MXA has repeatedly said that Kayaba SSS spring forks are the best forks on the track, we are really talking about Kayaba SSS forks with Yamaha valving specs.

In the past, we have hated TM’s setup on its Kayaba forks. And while the 2016 Kayaba forks are virtually the same models we tested back in 2013, they were night-and-day different. Although stiffer than Yamaha’s YZ125 setting, they were fluid and workmanlike on rough chop. Our testers felt right at home within a few clicks from the stock settings."
bents
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bents 6/11/2016 11:16am
6/11/2016 11:16am
They both look pretty darn good, and ran pretty darn good on the video. I think they will be game changers, not huge, but game changers.
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pete24 6/11/2016 12:08pm
6/11/2016 12:08pm
slipdog wrote:
I'm rolling the dice and getting a tc250, just going to pray there's no first year issues like rod or gearbox failures. Luckily KTM/Husky seems to...
I'm rolling the dice and getting a tc250, just going to pray there's no first year issues like rod or gearbox failures. Luckily KTM/Husky seems to be on top of recall issues like that more so than the Japanese brands.
Underground wrote:
KTM rods (Pankel) have been pretty sound but there has been a few gearbox issues on the new 250F and 450 that is a worry and...
KTM rods (Pankel) have been pretty sound but there has been a few gearbox issues on the new 250F and 450 that is a worry and hope doesn't carry over. Saying that KTM does look after their customers well but a few have been waiting for the parts to be made available with the new models
ive been waiting for transmission parts for two months for a 16 125 sx i called monday and they said no parts , i asked what do i have to do to go ride the qualifier this weekend , they said buy another bike
Bearuno
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Bearuno 6/11/2016 12:10pm
6/11/2016 12:10pm Edited Date/Time 6/11/2016 12:12pm
The "rev to the moon" comment made me chuckle.

Because 2ts have a higher pitch to their exhausts (and pick up revs so quickly) , so many think they rev their hearts out. No, comparatively, they don't - that's the preserve of equivalent sized - well even bigger sized - 4ts.

Look to the MXA charts put up on the CRF250 to YZ250F thread - we are living in an 250 (4 stroke) age where 8K revs is low end, 10K revs are Mid range, and 12K+ is top end.

A 250 2t, typically dyno's out to it's highest power around the 8 / 8.5, maybe 9k mark, then have the power drop off to the point of no point in riding at higher revs .Their low end is 2/ 3 K, mid is 5/ 6k, and top around 8 /9 k. I haven't seen dyno charts of the new KTMs / KTHuskies yet, but with a 72mm stroke (a KTM / KTHusky 250F has something like a 52mm stroke, shorter than a 125 2t - think about that Huge difference, just a bit) they might not rev much further, with useful power, than the old engines they replaced.

It always makes me laugh when people write / talk about 4t low end / torque. 2ts are the Torquey engines, size for size, level of tune for tune. It's just that people are comparing 125s to 250Fs, and 250 2ts to 450Fs.. This BS, Handicap Class racing, needs to be done away with .

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Plugga
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Plugga 6/11/2016 2:38pm
6/11/2016 2:38pm
Plugga wrote:
If you don't like the topic then don't post.
kiwifan wrote:
I see that hasnt stopped you before....pot kettle black?
Shall I pop over to your Honda thread and give it yawn then?
MXMattii
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MXMattii 6/11/2016 4:14pm
6/11/2016 4:14pm
The TM Racing 250 MX bikes are also very good, if you're not wanna race them in the dunes. Because then you need to tune some things. But for harder tracks they are perfect, match made in haven and they steer 1000x better then KTM or Husqvarna.

Specifications
Bore and Stroke: 66,4X72
Displacement: 249
Compression ratio: N.A.
Horse power: N.A.
Aspirazione: V-Force Reed valve
Carburettor: Keihin PWM 38
Fuel: Super-unleaded
Ignition: Kokusan CDI Electronic with variable advance with two selectable maps through handlebar switch
Clutch: Multiple-disk in oil bath with hydraulic control
Gear: 5 gear
Cooler System: Coolant liquid with pump
Frame: Perimetral aluminium section
Front fork: KYB 48mm
Rear shock: TM Racing
Front tyre: 100/90 X21
Rear tyre: 110/90 X 19
Front brake: Braking wave Disk 270 mm. With Nissin pump and Brembo caliper
Rear brake: Braking wave Disk 245 mm. With Nissin pump and caliper
Tank: Plastic 8,7 litres


2016 TM MX 300 Two-Stroke Review from DirtRider
rt987
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rt987 6/11/2016 4:22pm
6/11/2016 4:22pm
Ping and Keefer's comments about TM's are all I need thanks, I'll stick with orange.
MXMattii
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MXMattii 6/11/2016 4:28pm
6/11/2016 4:28pm
rt987 wrote:
Ping and Keefer's comments about TM's are all I need thanks, I'll stick with orange.
Dunno, what did they said?
Underground 6/11/2016 4:41pm
6/11/2016 4:41pm Edited Date/Time 6/11/2016 4:47pm
300 kit answered. Take note it says red spring on the engine cases which is the aggressive power valve spring if that is indeed installed for this test
Crush
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Crush 6/11/2016 4:43pm
6/11/2016 4:43pm
Bearuno wrote:
The "rev to the moon" comment made me chuckle. Because 2ts have a higher pitch to their exhausts (and pick up revs so quickly) , so...
The "rev to the moon" comment made me chuckle.

Because 2ts have a higher pitch to their exhausts (and pick up revs so quickly) , so many think they rev their hearts out. No, comparatively, they don't - that's the preserve of equivalent sized - well even bigger sized - 4ts.

Look to the MXA charts put up on the CRF250 to YZ250F thread - we are living in an 250 (4 stroke) age where 8K revs is low end, 10K revs are Mid range, and 12K+ is top end.

A 250 2t, typically dyno's out to it's highest power around the 8 / 8.5, maybe 9k mark, then have the power drop off to the point of no point in riding at higher revs .Their low end is 2/ 3 K, mid is 5/ 6k, and top around 8 /9 k. I haven't seen dyno charts of the new KTMs / KTHuskies yet, but with a 72mm stroke (a KTM / KTHusky 250F has something like a 52mm stroke, shorter than a 125 2t - think about that Huge difference, just a bit) they might not rev much further, with useful power, than the old engines they replaced.

It always makes me laugh when people write / talk about 4t low end / torque. 2ts are the Torquey engines, size for size, level of tune for tune. It's just that people are comparing 125s to 250Fs, and 250 2ts to 450Fs.. This BS, Handicap Class racing, needs to be done away with .
Yep
kiwifan
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kiwifan 6/12/2016 12:15pm
6/12/2016 12:15pm
Plugga wrote:
If you don't like the topic then don't post.
kiwifan wrote:
I see that hasnt stopped you before....pot kettle black?
Plugga wrote:
Shall I pop over to your Honda thread and give it yawn then?
Whatever rocks your boat
burn1986
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burn1986 6/12/2016 5:37pm
6/12/2016 5:37pm Edited Date/Time 6/12/2016 5:55pm
No mention of the forks, in the 250s and only vaguely alluded to the suspension by talking about the handling. It was a first impression, but everyone knows the motors are firebreathers - what about the suspension?! The ideal setup would be to swap the stock WPs with some YZ SSSs.
Underground 6/12/2016 7:32pm
6/12/2016 7:32pm
burn1986 wrote:
No mention of the forks, in the 250s and only vaguely alluded to the suspension by talking about the handling. It was a first impression, but...
No mention of the forks, in the 250s and only vaguely alluded to the suspension by talking about the handling. It was a first impression, but everyone knows the motors are firebreathers - what about the suspension?! The ideal setup would be to swap the stock WPs with some YZ SSSs.
No need to. Those WP48AER's are very good from all reports with the 2nd version on the 17's even better. If you can't use a pump and read a gauge there's a steel spring conversion available to ease your mind and add some weight. Any late model fork when set up well are awesome. You just have to find a good tuner and work with them and not expect the magic carpet ride first time out. If the factory guys can't get it perfect everywhere, knowing their rider and watching them ride weekly, how do people expect a local shop who doesn't know you from Adam to be able to? KYB SSS aren't head and shoulders better. Just better from the factory.
Anonymous (not verified)
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Anonymous (not verified) 6/12/2016 8:43pm
6/12/2016 8:43pm Edited Date/Time 9/1/2026 6:11pm
I never had any vibration issues with any of my 250sx's. Not sure why all the effort to fix something that wasn't broke.
F150Motocrosser 6/13/2016 6:42am
6/13/2016 6:42am
Every moto mag review in the last 15+ years of KTM bikes in a nutshell: Strong motor, suspension sucks.

Surely, after all these years, the engineers at WP have to be stepping their game up to address the widely known Achilles heel of the brand..
adam8781
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adam8781 6/13/2016 9:12pm
6/13/2016 9:12pm
someone at yamaha should be tar and feathered for not continuing to develop the yz125/250 line. imagine where they would be after 10 years r&d

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