What is the next step in engine/chassis development?

Pop Shmoke
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Now that besides suzuki basically all new bikes have a centerport exhaust, downdraft intake, dohc finger followers or sohc with roller rockers, high comp pistons, fuel injection, suspension linkage…etc what is going to be the next innovation or crossover from moto gp that you guys see happening? Once the bikes all got the centerport exhaust they all basically have the same high end stuff. The ducati is bringing in something new with the desmodromic valve train which looks to have good power and the other brands are probably going to have to respond. 

What do you see happening in the short, medium, and long term as far as engine and chassis development? Some of the options that could be brought over are variable valve timing, direct injection, using the engine as a stressed member of the frame, carbon fiber frame, electronic suspension, air shock, pneumatic valve actuation, electronic valve operation, hybrid electric drivetrain, electric forced induction, traction control, electronic coolant pump…etc. What else is there for options and what do you see coming?

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surfrider47
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4/28/2025 4:31pm

Gonna get hate for this probably but honestly I think electric is the future of development engine-wise.

Regarding suspension/chassis I see more electronic tuning for the terrain/track

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yz133rider
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4/28/2025 4:34pm

I honestly expected somebody to have a dual clutch transmission with push button shifters by now, I reallly thought Ducati was going to do something like that personally.


You remember the thumb operated hot start levers carbed 4 strokes had for a while?


Imagine one of those on each side of the bars left side to down shift right side to upshift.


You wouldn’t have to move your left leg around to shift can get your feet placement better and more consistent.

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1
4/28/2025 4:34pm

I see at least one OEM coming stock with an external water pump in the next handful of years. Usually that stuff falls into production 5-6 years after you see it on the race teams. 

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NITRODOG
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4/28/2025 4:35pm

They should reverse engineer Guy Coopers 92 RM-250.....just sayin

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The Shop

4/28/2025 4:40pm

At best u could maybe expect micro polished trans & shift forks.  And matched and polidhed cases.   IMG 9855 0

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4/28/2025 4:43pm
NITRODOG wrote:

They should reverse engineer Guy Coopers 92 RM-250.....just sayin

Why that bike was a pile. There’s a reason Guy Cooper The man rides a 05 cr125 now.  No wing no prayer

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decano51
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4/28/2025 4:56pm

ABS and electronic assisted suspension 

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Brad460
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4/28/2025 5:10pm Edited Date/Time 4/28/2025 5:12pm

I expect more with suspension- in regards to automatically adjusting to the conditions, rider weight, bumps, auto lowering in corners, compression and rebound adjust on the fly....etc. All being done with snowmobile suspension now..


And of course- more polishing of transfer ports and shift forks 🧐

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TeamGreen
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4/28/2025 5:26pm Edited Date/Time 4/28/2025 5:28pm

More Data acquisition, access and recording capabilities…in fact…someone was ready to launch a new system…then they ran into some financial troubles…

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sumdood
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4/28/2025 5:55pm

Gonna get hate for this probably but honestly I think electric is the future of development engine-wise.

Regarding suspension/chassis I see more electronic tuning for the terrain/track

Man... it kills me to agree with you, but instant torque and no shifting is going to be hard to beat ease of riding wise. What if the brakes were incorporated in with the throttle too ?. When you chop the throttle it's full brakes, (computer controlled and abs of course) from there the more you turn it the more you get, no thinking, no clutch, no levers, wide open to locked up all done with just the throttle... like a joystick.   

 

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ama530
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4/28/2025 6:11pm

Active suspension. More data acquisition and controls. MotoGP technology will trickle down. Then $30k for a dirtbike.

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USA
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4/28/2025 6:33pm

Probably double boost ports

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Hcallz5
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4/28/2025 6:44pm

2 tires in the back for extra traction 😉

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4/28/2025 7:17pm

Carbon frames, tiptronic paddle shifting, handbrakes, more tunable fork dampers (hi speed/low speed compression) with broader range, dual chamber air forks, 3 stroke motors, emp devices built in... 

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OldTech
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4/28/2025 7:17pm

Alright, I'm going to try to be positive because of the love of cheap, fast dirt bikes that people can fix at home. All the new center port designs make it easier to install a two-stroke engine into a nice chassis when the over complicated, expensive power plant expires. And we get to store all the electronics we take off in the same box with our VCR and cable box.😏

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4/28/2025 7:34pm
USA wrote:

Probably double boost ports

I heard Tara Geiger has been doing some R&D testing…

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4/28/2025 7:49pm
decano51 wrote:

ABS and electronic assisted suspension 

Too much additional weight abs & electronic assisted suspension.  I don’t think I would trust a computer controllling my suspension. I want to compress & it wants to rebound. IMG 9196 2Where would u install more computers , plug ins and wires ? New bikes hv wayy to much now.  If u hv problems with a 4-st its much more complicated to figure out what the problem is. The race teams hv trouble with this. How is a regular guy with little time figure it out.  04 was the pinnacle of advanced Mx bikes well actually 02 . With electronic controlled power valve . TM 125 5 yrs ago ran the system .  

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1
4/28/2025 8:57pm

Crank weight with a clutch that can be braked to provide chassis bias. It might also be charged like a capacitor to provide a power boost

Piston Slap
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Stillwater, OK US
4/29/2025 12:40am

Compressed air high speed induction into fuel mixture before combustion,

Also pneumatic valves.

OldTech
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4/29/2025 4:43am

I also think it's time to get rid of the production rule for the premier class. Let the factory teams develop the new technology under real world conditions without driving the cost up for consumer bikes. (It's not helping privateers anyway). And equal displacement for all classes.

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AMetts
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4/29/2025 5:10am Edited Date/Time 4/29/2025 5:11am

I think the most realistic thing is going to be electronically adjusted suspension, they have done this with computers that react in real time for road racing and street bikes for quite a few years already. But I think for off-road it would need to be done with a button (since GPS is allowed for data only at the moment). Basically its little motors that adjust the suspension compression/rebound, technically even possible to adjust sag with a motor as well. Hit a button before getting to the whoops or soften it up for some slippery flat corners, who knows but its cool. 

Already being used by Specialized Downhill team, rumors are Loic Bruni has buttons for an open setting and almost locked setting for pedally sections and something in between for smooth pumpy sections. 

How Does Loic Bruni Keep Track of all His Suspension Buttons - Mountain Bike Feature - Vital MTB

loicA
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3strokemx
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4/29/2025 5:16am

25-30 years: 3 stroke engine technology

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Speeddemon73
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Grand Rapids, MI US
4/29/2025 5:36am

I would like to see factory installed suspension options for your weight similar to how Beta currently offers. Beta offers factory installed suspension upgrades and tunes when you buy a new bike, or you can send your existing suspension in for an upgrade. Just one less thing to worry about having to do when buying a new bike. Then its truly "ready to race." 

For two strokes, I am surprised no-one has developed an adjustable length muffler so you can tune your exhaust based on the type of track you go to. Lengthen the canister for high speed tracks or shorten it for more bottom end. 

Honestly, bikes are pretty good. I could care less about any electronic tuning or metrics. Just one more thing to go wrong or worry about. I just want a bike I can work on that I don't need to own a shop diagnostic system or be tethered to the dealership when something breaks. 

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wwdiii
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League City, TX US
4/29/2025 6:38am

I’d bet Stihl like technology, 3 stroke will make it to off road someday.  The Stihl 2 stroke weed eaters with valves are pretty dang slick.  

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4/29/2025 6:49am

Wasn't there that survey posted here from an anonymous manufacturer that was seeking input on further "connectivity" and the like?  Switching maps, data acquisition, etc.  In the medium term, I think you're going to see a lot more focus on these areas both because they allow manufacturers and end users to optimize what they already have but also because it provides the manufacturer with a continuous revenue stream by way of subscriptions and the like.

My fiancée gets periodic surveys from Polaris due to her purchasing a new Sportsman 1000 a few years back.  There were specific sections on both connectivity AND a desired features in a new race quad (emphasis mine).  Some of it mentioned data analytics for rider coaching, map tuning, and even electronically-adjustable suspension.  Again, this was not on a $50k UTV, but on an ATV.  Presumably this will be the next-generation Scrambler optimized for GNCC racing.

If you look at job postings for a lot of these companies, you're seeing posts for telematics engineers, cybersecurity, developers, etc.  Even the non-US companies are hiring guys here for this work (mainly in CA and MI where there's "hubs" for these sorts of jobs).

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lumpy790
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York, SC US
4/29/2025 7:43am

New KX 2 stroke 

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wvumounty
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4/29/2025 7:48am

Tire and moose all in one. 

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blaster99
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West Springfield, MA US
Fantasy
4/29/2025 7:54am
Wasn't there that survey posted here from an anonymous manufacturer that was seeking input on further "connectivity" and the like?  Switching maps, data acquisition, etc.  In...

Wasn't there that survey posted here from an anonymous manufacturer that was seeking input on further "connectivity" and the like?  Switching maps, data acquisition, etc.  In the medium term, I think you're going to see a lot more focus on these areas both because they allow manufacturers and end users to optimize what they already have but also because it provides the manufacturer with a continuous revenue stream by way of subscriptions and the like.

My fiancée gets periodic surveys from Polaris due to her purchasing a new Sportsman 1000 a few years back.  There were specific sections on both connectivity AND a desired features in a new race quad (emphasis mine).  Some of it mentioned data analytics for rider coaching, map tuning, and even electronically-adjustable suspension.  Again, this was not on a $50k UTV, but on an ATV.  Presumably this will be the next-generation Scrambler optimized for GNCC racing.

If you look at job postings for a lot of these companies, you're seeing posts for telematics engineers, cybersecurity, developers, etc.  Even the non-US companies are hiring guys here for this work (mainly in CA and MI where there's "hubs" for these sorts of jobs).

Very interesting that Polaris is inquiring about a race quad. That market is dominated by Yamaha now, just like it was dominated by Honda, and then full aftermarket hybrids back in the 90s and early 2000s. There is room for a new player, but Polaris is.... Polaris. Not even close to a top of the line brand from an ATV Motocross history standpoint.

If they produce something, it will likely be a new Outlaw model. The Scrabler is a full on trail quad. I'm almost certain those had a CVT drive train, and were 2 strokes at one point? The existing scrambler platform was simply garbage. I had the pleasure... or displeasure of racing an Outlaw in 2012. The thing was a fat, heavy and uncomfortable machine. The weight distribution was lower in the chassis, and the only benefit was it could start like no other quad I had ever owned. Once the race started, hold on for dear life, everyone's going to be knocking on your grab bar and you struggle to make it through the rough parts of the track.

I also believe they had partnered with KTM on the engine. I can't remember exactly, so I could be wrong. The engine was the only good thing about that aside from the weight distribution for straight line speed. Maybe they are going to partner with KTM again for engines? I'm sure KTM is looking for any form of revenue at this point. If Polaris does try it with the Outlaw, I hope they revamp that terrible unreliable frame. It feel like i would crack the frame every other race.

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Splat03
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Kiowa, CO US
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4/29/2025 8:03am
OldTech wrote:
I also think it's time to get rid of the production rule for the premier class. Let the factory teams develop the new technology under real...

I also think it's time to get rid of the production rule for the premier class. Let the factory teams develop the new technology under real world conditions without driving the cost up for consumer bikes. (It's not helping privateers anyway). And equal displacement for all classes.

I agree. AMA already hosed the 250/450 ruling. Most of the guys are detuning the 450s in supercross. And, most of the factory race teams are cheating or pushing the line for the 250s to make more power which doesn’t allow the privateers to be competitive in that class. 
The stuff teams can find on bikes when they are trying to make power and reduce weight without penalty could be awesome. The manufacturers will be able to bring some of the more cost efficient stuff into production. 

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