Panic Button for Chase/Kawi?

truck
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17 hours ago

It wouldn't be a great look, but if you're him at this point in your career and you truly believe it's the bike and it's not going to get better, then you have to do it..... you think prado is regretting it right now? I don't. 

If it happens, kawi has to clean house. Even if you think prado and chase are 100% to blame, you still hired them. 

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17 hours ago
truck wrote:
It wouldn't be a great look, but if you're him at this point in your career and you truly believe it's the bike and it's not...

It wouldn't be a great look, but if you're him at this point in your career and you truly believe it's the bike and it's not going to get better, then you have to do it..... you think prado is regretting it right now? I don't. 

If it happens, kawi has to clean house. Even if you think prado and chase are 100% to blame, you still hired them. 

Prado misses Kawi like a pimple on his rear end...

FerCzD
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16 hours ago

I get the short-term logic, it’s like justifying a present decision based on expected future upside. On paper, sure, it can make sense.

But long term, I think it will age poorly. My view is:

1. His results likely don’t change much from what they have been at Kawasaki (not enough wins)

2. If that happens, we probably see the same cycle again where the bike/team becomes part of the blame and another move gets floated.

The financial side actually reinforces that. A guaranteed multi-million deal at Kawasaki vs. a heavily incentive-based structure at Star Yamaha only works if you’re consistently winning. If the results stay roughly the same, likely means less money.

And finally, Star has the leverage here. With HD38 moving up, they’re not exactly in a position where they need to overpay. I doubt they’re matching a top guaranteed number.

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truck
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FerCzD wrote:
I get the short-term logic, it’s like justifying a present decision based on expected future upside. On paper, sure, it can make sense.But long term, I...

I get the short-term logic, it’s like justifying a present decision based on expected future upside. On paper, sure, it can make sense.

But long term, I think it will age poorly. My view is:

1. His results likely don’t change much from what they have been at Kawasaki (not enough wins)

2. If that happens, we probably see the same cycle again where the bike/team becomes part of the blame and another move gets floated.

The financial side actually reinforces that. A guaranteed multi-million deal at Kawasaki vs. a heavily incentive-based structure at Star Yamaha only works if you’re consistently winning. If the results stay roughly the same, likely means less money.

And finally, Star has the leverage here. With HD38 moving up, they’re not exactly in a position where they need to overpay. I doubt they’re matching a top guaranteed number.

Hard disagree on the first point. He's won titles on the previous two bikes he didn't like. It's hard to imagine that he wouldn't get better results on another bike.

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The Shop

Spoonguy
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16 hours ago

Isn't Chase approaching the age Dungey, RV, Ricky, and a ton of other pros traditionally have retired at? Maybe the current thirty plussers are outliers and there is something to your frontal cortex development and 27/28 being enough? No shame in it, does anyone think he is going to podium this summer with the current competition? Maybe once in a while, but I don't know if often?

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FerCzD
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16 hours ago
FerCzD wrote:
I get the short-term logic, it’s like justifying a present decision based on expected future upside. On paper, sure, it can make sense.But long term, I...

I get the short-term logic, it’s like justifying a present decision based on expected future upside. On paper, sure, it can make sense.

But long term, I think it will age poorly. My view is:

1. His results likely don’t change much from what they have been at Kawasaki (not enough wins)

2. If that happens, we probably see the same cycle again where the bike/team becomes part of the blame and another move gets floated.

The financial side actually reinforces that. A guaranteed multi-million deal at Kawasaki vs. a heavily incentive-based structure at Star Yamaha only works if you’re consistently winning. If the results stay roughly the same, likely means less money.

And finally, Star has the leverage here. With HD38 moving up, they’re not exactly in a position where they need to overpay. I doubt they’re matching a top guaranteed number.

truck wrote:
Hard disagree on the first point. He's won titles on the previous two bikes he didn't like. It's hard to imagine that he wouldn't get better...

Hard disagree on the first point. He's won titles on the previous two bikes he didn't like. It's hard to imagine that he wouldn't get better results on another bike.

Past performance isn’t indicative of future results, and in racing there’s a saying: you’re only as good as your last race. Lately, that’s been outside the podium. But sure, the next bike will fix everything

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gt80rider
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15 hours ago

Chase gets a great start last weekend, then fades... geezuusss... is it just over for chase?? He gonna headtrip out like et3 is doing??? Cause he gonna get destroyed this summer... Just wow... 

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truck
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14 hours ago

Always get a kick out of the chase disrespect.... for as bad as this year has been.... he's 26 and has won more SX than anyone on the planet over the past two seasons. People are acting like his career is over and teams wouldn't even want to sign him. It's wild. 

If chase wants to go to star it'll happen. One monster team to another, alpinestars won't care, Bobby has no problem breaking contracts... only potential hiccup I can see is Deegan throwing a fit about it and threatening to leave. 

I would tell chase if you want to do it, do it yesterday. Get on the new bike now and ride for free for the rest of the year if you have to. 

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Mototech853
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12 hours ago
truck wrote:
Hard disagree on the first point. He's won titles on the previous two bikes he didn't like. It's hard to imagine that he wouldn't get better...

Hard disagree on the first point. He's won titles on the previous two bikes he didn't like. It's hard to imagine that he wouldn't get better results on another bike.

This is what got him to Kawasaki. Another bike will fix everything. Multiple past champions said no bike is perfect and at some point the rider has to stop chasing and ride the bike. It’s worked for Roczen. 

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Perky
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The part I don’t get is, if the bike sucks and you’re both a MX & SX champion, work on it. Find a team you can work with and with some patience you’ll get to a better a spot. Actually ride out the contract and see where it lands you at the end. If all the bikes he’s been on have sucked ass, he’s done very little to turn that around… and he now finds himself on what could be the worst factory bike on the gate.


Obviously none of us are team managers, but the inability to effectively communicate and develop the bike would really make me think if I were Triumph or Ducati, where you need feedback to improve the bike.


As blazing fast as he is, the talent pool and rider market he finds himself in today will see himself fade into obscurity if he doesn’t (a)hold himself accountable for his results and (b)exercise patience and grow with the brand of his choice.

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Tyler D
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10 hours ago
truck wrote:
Always get a kick out of the chase disrespect.... for as bad as this year has been.... he's 26 and has won more SX than anyone...

Always get a kick out of the chase disrespect.... for as bad as this year has been.... he's 26 and has won more SX than anyone on the planet over the past two seasons. People are acting like his career is over and teams wouldn't even want to sign him. It's wild. 

If chase wants to go to star it'll happen. One monster team to another, alpinestars won't care, Bobby has no problem breaking contracts... only potential hiccup I can see is Deegan throwing a fit about it and threatening to leave. 

I would tell chase if you want to do it, do it yesterday. Get on the new bike now and ride for free for the rest of the year if you have to. 

if everyone was a free agent, where do you rank him in desirability?

matze
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9 hours ago
This is what got him to Kawasaki. Another bike will fix everything. Multiple past champions said no bike is perfect and at some point the rider...

This is what got him to Kawasaki. Another bike will fix everything. Multiple past champions said no bike is perfect and at some point the rider has to stop chasing and ride the bike. It’s worked for Roczen. 

I’m pretty sure it worked for Roczen because he finally found a base setup hes satisfied with. A few weeks ago, he actually said something along those lines "that it was such a relief to find a feeling you’ve been looking for all these years, proving you’re not crazy."

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TAUTOG
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6 hours ago
TAUTOG wrote:

Steve mentions Star so

TAUTOG wrote:

He also mentioned J Coop shopping around and Webb being a contract year. I think Webb wants SX only too.

stewie94 wrote:
nah SX only , matthes & JT said it for a numerous weeks this yr is his last full season of outdoors , after tht hes...

nah SX only , matthes & JT said it for a numerous weeks this yr is his last full season of outdoors , after tht hes looking for a SX only contract 

MX was a typo sorry I fixed it

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aees
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6 hours ago
Perky wrote:
The part I don’t get is, if the bike sucks and you’re both a MX & SX champion, work on it. Find a team you can...

The part I don’t get is, if the bike sucks and you’re both a MX & SX champion, work on it. Find a team you can work with and with some patience you’ll get to a better a spot. Actually ride out the contract and see where it lands you at the end. If all the bikes he’s been on have sucked ass, he’s done very little to turn that around… and he now finds himself on what could be the worst factory bike on the gate.


Obviously none of us are team managers, but the inability to effectively communicate and develop the bike would really make me think if I were Triumph or Ducati, where you need feedback to improve the bike.


As blazing fast as he is, the talent pool and rider market he finds himself in today will see himself fade into obscurity if he doesn’t (a)hold himself accountable for his results and (b)exercise patience and grow with the brand of his choice.

They aren't test riders, they are going for championships and can't spent to much time testing.

If they feel it's to far away, it's a waste of time and also high risk you will not get where you need it to be. 

Honda and KTM was in the window, just looked for that final percent that every rider beside maybe Jett, is constantly looking for. 

Roczen just fixed the clutch and suspension, after what, 10 years and limited bike updates since 2018? If Jett was here, my guess is Roczen would still be searching. Because nothing about changing how they ride is going to make them catch up. They have to hope there is a Tomac 2015 Honda moment they will land on.

 

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Spoonguy
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5 hours ago

He has been in some tough championship battles with Webb and Tomac, and has taken some hard hits as well. Some of these racers burn brightly and flame out, Barnett was done at 26. It cannot go on forever, maybe he just doesn't have the patience for it anymore, maybe there is nothing left in the tank?

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ando
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5 hours ago
truck wrote:
Always get a kick out of the chase disrespect.... for as bad as this year has been.... he's 26 and has won more SX than anyone...

Always get a kick out of the chase disrespect.... for as bad as this year has been.... he's 26 and has won more SX than anyone on the planet over the past two seasons. People are acting like his career is over and teams wouldn't even want to sign him. It's wild. 

If chase wants to go to star it'll happen. One monster team to another, alpinestars won't care, Bobby has no problem breaking contracts... only potential hiccup I can see is Deegan throwing a fit about it and threatening to leave. 

I would tell chase if you want to do it, do it yesterday. Get on the new bike now and ride for free for the rest of the year if you have to. 

I sort of agree - he isn’t washed up as a rider.  However his team options are becoming limited.  The door is shut at Honda and KTM.  If he leaves Kawi the only factory option left is Yamaha.  I’d guess they’d find a spot for him with J Cooper apparently leaving but he’d be playing second fiddle to Deegan and maybe even third behind Webb (at least for SX).  I guess Suzuki is an option but would they be able to pay him what he wants and does he want to be on what is a semi-factory team at best?  I wouldn’t think Ducati or Triumph would be a great move with them still developing their bikes.

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soggy
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4 hours ago Edited Date/Time 4 hours ago

Chase could go the reed route and do his own thing. 

Ducati or triumph would love to have someone with his potential. 

Suzuki is an option perhaps. 

Maybe he says fuck it and goes to mxgp. What would big Lew do then!?

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JazzyJJ
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4 hours ago
Perky wrote:
The part I don’t get is, if the bike sucks and you’re both a MX & SX champion, work on it. Find a team you can...

The part I don’t get is, if the bike sucks and you’re both a MX & SX champion, work on it. Find a team you can work with and with some patience you’ll get to a better a spot. Actually ride out the contract and see where it lands you at the end. If all the bikes he’s been on have sucked ass, he’s done very little to turn that around… and he now finds himself on what could be the worst factory bike on the gate.


Obviously none of us are team managers, but the inability to effectively communicate and develop the bike would really make me think if I were Triumph or Ducati, where you need feedback to improve the bike.


As blazing fast as he is, the talent pool and rider market he finds himself in today will see himself fade into obscurity if he doesn’t (a)hold himself accountable for his results and (b)exercise patience and grow with the brand of his choice.

This only works if the team delivers on their promises and is actually open to changing things. From what we’ve seen Kawasaki does not seem willing to do whatever the rider wants. They’re very willing to put in the work but it’s become clear that there are major issues at the top. Secondly, why would you use two more years at the end of your prime riding age on a team/bike that you don’t think you can win on? 

GrapeApe
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3 hours ago Edited Date/Time 3 hours ago

If I were Kawi I would value Sexton higher than anyone on the management side of the team, and I'd be very concerned about losing Monster. Hold Sexton to his contract, clean house and bring in outside new blood in management and R&D, and do so before they start race team testing the new bike. 

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DonM
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3 hours ago
Perky wrote:
The part I don’t get is, if the bike sucks and you’re both a MX & SX champion, work on it. Find a team you can...

The part I don’t get is, if the bike sucks and you’re both a MX & SX champion, work on it. Find a team you can work with and with some patience you’ll get to a better a spot. Actually ride out the contract and see where it lands you at the end. If all the bikes he’s been on have sucked ass, he’s done very little to turn that around… and he now finds himself on what could be the worst factory bike on the gate.


Obviously none of us are team managers, but the inability to effectively communicate and develop the bike would really make me think if I were Triumph or Ducati, where you need feedback to improve the bike.


As blazing fast as he is, the talent pool and rider market he finds himself in today will see himself fade into obscurity if he doesn’t (a)hold himself accountable for his results and (b)exercise patience and grow with the brand of his choice.

JazzyJJ wrote:
This only works if the team delivers on their promises and is actually open to changing things. From what we’ve seen Kawasaki does not seem willing...

This only works if the team delivers on their promises and is actually open to changing things. From what we’ve seen Kawasaki does not seem willing to do whatever the rider wants. They’re very willing to put in the work but it’s become clear that there are major issues at the top. Secondly, why would you use two more years at the end of your prime riding age on a team/bike that you don’t think you can win on? 

Promises? What promises? They have pretty much changed everything and back this year for Chase. The problem is the sport has outgrown the leadership of the team this team will not get better until they are replaced

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Mototech853
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3 hours ago
ando wrote:
I sort of agree - he isn’t washed up as a rider.  However his team options are becoming limited.  The door is shut at Honda and...

I sort of agree - he isn’t washed up as a rider.  However his team options are becoming limited.  The door is shut at Honda and KTM.  If he leaves Kawi the only factory option left is Yamaha.  I’d guess they’d find a spot for him with J Cooper apparently leaving but he’d be playing second fiddle to Deegan and maybe even third behind Webb (at least for SX).  I guess Suzuki is an option but would they be able to pay him what he wants and does he want to be on what is a semi-factory team at best?  I wouldn’t think Ducati or Triumph would be a great move with them still developing their bikes.

If one of the reasons he left Honda was because of Jett I can’t see him going to Star with the Deegan circus. He’s said in interviews the Honda bike wasn’t really the problem. I don’t think he’d be considered the A rider at Star. 

Mototech853
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3 hours ago
This is what got him to Kawasaki. Another bike will fix everything. Multiple past champions said no bike is perfect and at some point the rider...

This is what got him to Kawasaki. Another bike will fix everything. Multiple past champions said no bike is perfect and at some point the rider has to stop chasing and ride the bike. It’s worked for Roczen. 

matze wrote:
I’m pretty sure it worked for Roczen because he finally found a base setup hes satisfied with. A few weeks ago, he actually said something along...

I’m pretty sure it worked for Roczen because he finally found a base setup hes satisfied with. A few weeks ago, he actually said something along those lines "that it was such a relief to find a feeling you’ve been looking for all these years, proving you’re not crazy."

He has said he doesn’t know what he’s looking for. This has to make it difficult for the test riders to help develop the bike for him. Seeing the big changes to the bike in the early rounds would prove that. 

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Spoonguy
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3 hours ago
GrapeApe wrote:
If I were Kawi I would value Sexton higher than anyone on the management side of the team, and I'd be very concerned about losing Monster...

If I were Kawi I would value Sexton higher than anyone on the management side of the team, and I'd be very concerned about losing Monster. Hold Sexton to his contract, clean house and bring in outside new blood in management and R&D, and do so before they start race team testing the new bike. 

I would guess whether they keep Chase or he does leave, Kawasaki has to restructure their MX/SX team. The Pipes motorsports, Star, and Club MX model seems to work maybe Kawasaki could fashion something along those lines?

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KawiKrew17
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2 hours ago

kawi need to clean house there current leadership is clearly an issue it dates back to rv days rv left because the team caused burnout eli left because he didnt agree with the the team and the team was hard headed about elis wants. maybe not quite the same level but JA21 left because if team friction. prado straight quit because of team/bike friction and chase has been pretty clearly miserable all season its not a rider at this point its a decade + of mismanagement within the kawi race team.

2 hours ago

Kawi team is a process. 
Currently their process is terrible and cleaning house is needed regardless if Chase stays or goes. 

1
JazzyJJ
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2 hours ago
Perky wrote:
The part I don’t get is, if the bike sucks and you’re both a MX & SX champion, work on it. Find a team you can...

The part I don’t get is, if the bike sucks and you’re both a MX & SX champion, work on it. Find a team you can work with and with some patience you’ll get to a better a spot. Actually ride out the contract and see where it lands you at the end. If all the bikes he’s been on have sucked ass, he’s done very little to turn that around… and he now finds himself on what could be the worst factory bike on the gate.


Obviously none of us are team managers, but the inability to effectively communicate and develop the bike would really make me think if I were Triumph or Ducati, where you need feedback to improve the bike.


As blazing fast as he is, the talent pool and rider market he finds himself in today will see himself fade into obscurity if he doesn’t (a)hold himself accountable for his results and (b)exercise patience and grow with the brand of his choice.

JazzyJJ wrote:
This only works if the team delivers on their promises and is actually open to changing things. From what we’ve seen Kawasaki does not seem willing...

This only works if the team delivers on their promises and is actually open to changing things. From what we’ve seen Kawasaki does not seem willing to do whatever the rider wants. They’re very willing to put in the work but it’s become clear that there are major issues at the top. Secondly, why would you use two more years at the end of your prime riding age on a team/bike that you don’t think you can win on? 

DonM wrote:
Promises? What promises? They have pretty much changed everything and back this year for Chase. The problem is the sport has outgrown the leadership of the...

Promises? What promises? They have pretty much changed everything and back this year for Chase. The problem is the sport has outgrown the leadership of the team this team will not get better until they are replaced

We're all making educated guesses based on the evidence, but we know that he ran a PC front end, won on it, then for some reason swapped back off of it. That seems like a move that came form the top, not from Chase himself. So if they say that they'll do anything to win, and they pull moves like that, both things can't be true

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2 hours ago

I've said it before but Kawi needs to hire me to be the Manager. I'll run it into the ground for a lot less.

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2 hours ago Edited Date/Time 2 hours ago

The alarm bells I think really started sounding when he said to Lewis a month or so back, along the lines of, 'well, we're at loss as to what to do, it's a mystery, Iv'e never faced this in my career etc etc' or words to that effect... Not the usual oh yeah we're gradually making progress etc. That says to me (along with Prado finding himself in the same position last year) that there is something fundamentally askew with either the team hierarchy and/or bike. All those resources and they can't see to replicate his RD2 feeling. It's bizarre. I mean it's not like he's a little off at times, he's often not even close - yet conversely he'll show flashes of his old brilliance in day practice (though less lately).

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TAUTOG
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2 hours ago

So Chiz wasn't the magic tester to find Chase what he wants?

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Johnny Ringo
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2 hours ago
TAUTOG wrote:

So Chiz wasn't the magic tester to find Chase what he wants?

I just find it so hard to believe the bike is that bad. Even the 09 Hondas, 2010 Yamahas, AF Honda 2 strokes, Conventional Fork Suzukis all found SOME level success.

Maybe only the PDS KTM 250s were on this level?

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