I'm not looking to start an argument between the loyal supporters of each brand, or slag off any particular brand.
I am a big Kawi fan, first bike I had, the bike my friends had as a kid, and I grew up watching Emig, RC, Stew, etc on them. But the quality used to be a bit hit and miss, threads that strip out of you look at them funny, mega sloppy foot peg brackets after a while, etc.
This is just an example, I'm not singling out the green ones.
Honda used to be rock solid, but I've heard of folks crushing rads with ease and bending subframes and flattening silencers on the new 250's, things just seeming a little flimsier maybe in search of weight loss? Yam have obviously recently suffered the random rod failures and timing chain failure issues on their 250. KTM have had some duff castings, and have since switched companies.
Just interested in people's take, not on what brand you hate and turning it into a big negative thing, but in things you've experienced or seen first hand, what your general feeling is on it, whatever you think is relevant.
I'm just trying to get up to speed as I've only had Austrian bikes since starting riding again, and I've been pretty happy, but when I was younger I never, ever, would have even considered one even as they started to win championships in the 'modern' era.
I.M.O Over the last 10 years (it may have changed from around 21 when Honda started making Japanese KTMs)
Honda
Yamaha
Kawasaki
Pierer Mobility
Suzuki
Interesting order man, thanks for the input 👍
To be more concise from earlier, I'm talking reliability, build quality, weird little niggles, major failures etc. Not necessarily what's fastest or best suspended.
I found my honda to be of better build quality than my yamahas.
Be owned/worked on almost all the brands and in my opinion Austrian stuff is of the highest quality and let’s the longest. Especially the motors, seems like they run forever and clutch seems to have double the life span
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My 07 and 04 suzuki's seemed to be made very soft. Bolts stripped very easy on those things. I've had Yamaha since then and they feel much more solid to work on although my wifes yz125 did a left side main bearing around 40 hours. The mechanic that pulled it down said the rest of the motor looked brand new, he couldn't figure out why it failed.
I had a 2012 KTM for a few months, that thing seemed to get rust on the fasteners really easy
I have been working on bikes as a side business for 30 years. Honda has the best quality overall but the KTM group bikes are not far behind. Just as an example, I believe that Honda uses the best fasteners of any of the manufacturers. They are true to size and don't rust. Austrian bikes use lousy coatings on their bolts etc.. and rust easily. The other Japanese brands use fasteners that are just off on size and are sometimes a pain to deal with if they start galling or rounding over. If I had to rank them it would be as below. I did not rank Beta or Rieju (old GasGas) in the mix. Beta has a great bike and is getting better every year but their plastic has been iffy over the years and quality is just a spot off until the last few generations. Rieju make a good bike but it is not that popular.
1. Honda
2. KTM, Husky, GasGas
3. Yamaha
4. Suzuki
5. Kawasaki
Barring my mud slinging on the TBI debacle, KTM group bikes generally have excellent build quality, especially the engines, clutch, trans, etc. I am a fan of the WP suspension quality vs. KYB/Showa also. There's lots of little details on the bikes that are nice compared to the big-4. Things like sealed bearings on the rear brake pivot, the clever filter setups, pedal height/throw adjuster, hydro clutch, etc. They do have their weak points and head scratchers though, and much of it appears to be in the name of weight and cost savings. The wheels... don't get me started. The stock rim locks, rim strips, tubes, and spokes are horrendous. And the rims themselves are soft and weak. People in corrosion prone areas hate the bolt coating. Luckily not an issue in the dez.
This is same order I would put them.
I’ve had best luck with Yamaha. Fit and finish has been great and the bike takes longer to start feeling clapped out. Next would be Honda. Not far behind Yamaha but the 2018 bike had some small niggles like misaligned oem body parts and linkage bolts that bowed quicker than they should have.
I’ve never owned a KTM dirt bike but did own a 1290 Superduke that I bought brand new. It was a $19k high performance street bike and had a bolt severely cross threaded into the frame. This was a bolt that the dealer would have removed, so it was likely built in Austria like that. Additionally, the gas tank use a plastic formulation that would stretch and warp with ethanolized fuel. On top of that, the onboard computer could not be reset when I performed oil changes. I had to take it into KTM and pay their dealer to tell my bike that I changed the oil. It was bullshit and turned me off of the brand forever. I could go on about how the local KTM dealer is the quintessential stealership, but that’s another story.
Been riding Austrian dirt bikes for decades, putting hundred of hours on each of them, bulletproof. That said, I bought a KTM1190 Adventurer a few years ago, biggest piece of shit I have ever owned in 58years of adulthood, including appliances and power tools. Austrian street bikes=garbage, Austrian dirt bikes=bulletproof
Some good info and insights on here gentlemen, thanks 👍
I appreciate folks not turning it into a mudder as well. I know a lot of us have strong opinions on this, so thank you for all the comments being sensible and civil, that proves it is possible here 😂
KTMs are made out of potmetal. hondas and yamahas are best.
This is interesting feedback and might explain why a 390 Duke is $6k, and a 350 SX-F/XC-F is basically double the cost. It has always perplexed me as to why dirt bikes are so much more costly than many road bikes, which tend to have substantially more electronics and features (headlights, data computers, ABS, etc.). Maybe it all comes down to the differences in build quality between to the two segments.
Interesting experience, in regards to my 1190 Adventurer, KTM's national service manager stated to me, (paraphrasing) "Nothing is wrong with my KTM Adventurer, so nothing could be wrong with yours."
Hard to argue that rock solid logic 😂
I have owned all but Kawasaki.
Always had a belief about Suzuki that their build quality was low, but the 18 RMZ 450 I had was rock solid. Granted I only owned it for 50 hours.
I would have put Honda at the top of the list 20 years ago, but not today, their build quality is not what it once was.
Every Yamaha I have ever owned has been very durable, I can't remember ever having had a failure.
KTM group bikes I have owned have been good, but I do find that I have to replace parts a little bit quicker than the Japanese, except for the clutch.
Seems to me that the biggest difference is that the Jap's focus on durability, whereas the KTM group focus on being the lightest, highest performing out of the box. And it seems like up until about 2000 that Honda was at the cutting edge of tech, then Yamaha until about 2010 and now KTM. At this point, you can't really go wrong, the manufacturing tolerance compared to decades past is way better.
$.02
clearly this is a joke or this guy is completely inexperienced and at maybe the lowest level of motocross one could ever even be at.
The funniest part is that some of us know all to well that EVERY brand has had good and bad years…good and bad models.
I’ve been fortunate enough to have bikes prepped by pros like you and your friends in the paddock. No matter what brand of bike, who preps and who knows all the little set-up and funny little tuning tricks can make ANY bike awesome.
Here’s the BEST bikes out of the crate that I’ve had over the years are…stand out bikes…
1980 CR125, 1983 CR125, 2019 CRF450X
1989 KX125, 1991 KDX200, 2022 KLR650
1977 RD400, 1981 YZ125, 1998 WR400
2003 DR400, 2007 RM125, 2018 RMZ450
2013 450SX-F, 2019 450SX-F
2015 FE350S
Pit Row
they cut corners with hard parts and fasteners. spokes/wheels, footpegs, hardware in general. i cant speak to case and head metallurgy though. maybe valve seats and bearings and stuff are fine? maybe not. i can't say. the former though, is well accepted and undeniable.
My Suzukis, Yamahas, and Hondas have all been good.
Only Kawasaki I owned was an '88 KX80. My brother also had a '98 at one point, then a '01 KX125 later. We both rode various other 125s, including RC's 1997 Splitfire Pro Circuit practice bike. I've also ridden a KX500 several times. My dad owned a 2002 KX250 and a 2008 KLX450. Between all of those, very hit and miss with workmanship, quality, and reliability.
I also had a '89 JS550 (jetski) that I completely rebuilt and dumped a lot of money into, but it still needed work every other ride. Fairly typical for boats, but you always hear how Superjets (Yamaha) were much more reliable.
No direct experience with KTMs, other than a few hot laps.
i have never seen a japanese brand motocross bike of any 250cc or 450cc reach above 100 hrs without any issues...
i have seen multiple ktms.
there are multiple on facebook marketplace right now in every state! that is saying something!
Mate, you must be getting around with blinkers on if that's the case.
I’ve never had a jap bike go pass 80 hours. Avg life span of a jap efi engine for me is 50 hours. I have no problem putting 50 plus hours on the 3 ktms I have raced. I would take one to 100 hours if I owned the bike that long. Don’t even have to think about replacing the clutch on the ktms. My dads 2019 350 had 325 hours with nothing but oil, oil filter, and air filter changes. 2021 350 he is on now has about 150 hours last I looked, on just oil changes and air filter changes.
I think the worst one I had was an 01 TM 125. The engine was reliable enough but dumb little things that made you question some of the QC.
Like some of the clutch cover bolts the smooth cast area. That's supposed to be there for the bolt hole. The hole ended up having to be drilled off center to the side by a couple mm's to work. This was done by the factory.
Some of the other chassis bolts where the same. And you had to wiggle the bolt around some to get it to go in subframe bolts where one. Just a bit crude overall. I think they've gotten better since then. Some of the fasteners also have questionable coatings. That wear out fast.
I’ve put 100 hours on my last two yz450fx’s with no issues at all (never did anything but regular maintenance: oil, oil filter, air filters, tires).
I’ve got 60 hours on my current 450fx with no issues. (A broken ankle which keep me off the bike for almost a year is the only reason it doesn’t have more hours on it…but I’ll be getting a 24 450fx when the 23 YZ changes get to the FX no matter how many hours are on it).
Between my 2023 Honda CRF450 and KTM 350, I'd say hands down that the Honda has the best fit and finish. When I was going through the bike and putting thread lock on certain bolts, I noticed how high quality they were and the other thing I noticed is that the Transmission was butter smooth compared to my KTM. Just really like the quality of the Honda, but the KTM's a pretty nice also.
My bikes, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Honda, and Yamaha, including 250f's have all gone past 100 hours. My YZ450FX just hit 100 hours, at 35 hours I static locked it in a river crossing. Waited until the water leaked past the rings, started it and rode it 2 miles to my truck. Changed the oil 5 times and continued riding. Have yet to even check the valves... I'd say it's pretty darn reliable.
Quality: Reliability:
Ktm. Honda
Honda. Yamaha
Yamaha. Ktm
Kawasaki. Kaw
Suzuki. Suz
I have a 2006 KTM 450 EXC with I don't know how many hours are on it now, but it's a lot! Still running the stock clutch and I haven't adjusted the valves since I rebuilt the top end 8 years ago. it just won't die. Now fork seals and countershaft seals are another matter, lol.
quality and reliability are subjective....some will maintain the f**k out of their bikes, be kind to them and they last forever, some will abuse the hell out of them (how many riders these days do you see warming them up on the rev-limiter either in the pits or on start line?..or both!!) and not maintain them very well, then they do not last as long.
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