Self Insured Prices - No More Motocross Tracks!!..

10/20/2017 2:43am
Why do people from all over the world come to the US for health care? It is because we have a free market system which drives competition and keeps quality up. Most places with "governmental" ran healthcare is mediocre at best...

The left F'd up the healthcare system in this country by offering freebies to the less fortunate. As long as they are offering something "FREE" to someone they get that vote....

Meanwhile I am over here paying 2k a month for a family of 4, higher deductible and less coverage than before... Great job Obamacare.....
motogrady
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3931
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Location
WV US
10/20/2017 4:41am

Thing is, the insurance companies have taken over the medical profession,
Saw it last week with a visit to the doc.
Used to be, he did what he thought best.
This time, it was all about what "they" would pay for and what 'they" would not.

Just the fact that "they" park a girl in the room with your doctor, taking down notes the whole time bothers me.
None of their fucking business what goes on in that room.
Oh, wait, now it is their business.

Highmark, the Cadillac plan, $1,150.00 a month. Employer pays half.
Have paid in almost $40,000 in the last 3 years, and he's worried about some insurance adjuster telling him he didn't need to order this test or not,

Just got the news, 3% increase this year. At 63, I'm thinking just drop it, Go without it.
2 years it's Medicare. Save that $14,000. Maybe it will help, in a small way, to get this whole thing to just collapse.
motogrady
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WV US
10/20/2017 4:47am
motogrady wrote:
Thing is, the insurance companies have taken over the medical profession, Saw it last week with a visit to the doc. Used to be, he did...

Thing is, the insurance companies have taken over the medical profession,
Saw it last week with a visit to the doc.
Used to be, he did what he thought best.
This time, it was all about what "they" would pay for and what 'they" would not.

Just the fact that "they" park a girl in the room with your doctor, taking down notes the whole time bothers me.
None of their fucking business what goes on in that room.
Oh, wait, now it is their business.

Highmark, the Cadillac plan, $1,150.00 a month. Employer pays half.
Have paid in almost $40,000 in the last 3 years, and he's worried about some insurance adjuster telling him he didn't need to order this test or not,

Just got the news, 3% increase this year. At 63, I'm thinking just drop it, Go without it.
2 years it's Medicare. Save that $14,000. Maybe it will help, in a small way, to get this whole thing to just collapse.

And if I was really smart, I'd quit my full time job, do small stuff and show just under $11,000, on my taxes.
Then, I'd get obamacare for free!
And work half as much!
How's about that?
Dtat720
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Flowood, MS US
10/20/2017 4:59am
Federal courts have ruled at every level subsidies are illegal. The last admin ignored the rulings and paid them anyway. It stayed afloat by skirting its own rules and skirting federal law. Now, even though its been collapsing for 2+ years, its being implemented as written. And it will implode, as it was written to do. Only we have the president in office they werent planning on having for when it collapsed. Thankfully....

The Shop

Indy mxer
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The Villages, FL US
10/20/2017 5:16am Edited Date/Time 10/20/2017 5:20am
MPJC wrote:
To a Canadian like myself, this seems like a bizarre conversation. With our single payer system, you'd think that our taxes would be absurd, but I...
To a Canadian like myself, this seems like a bizarre conversation. With our single payer system, you'd think that our taxes would be absurd, but I don't think they're much worse than yours (it's hard to generalize as taxes vary widely depending on jurisdiction) - and our tax returns are much simpler, as there's just one tax return that covers both federal and provincial (I've seen some huge multi-jusrisdictional U.S. returns - I work for a big 4 accounting firm so we do U.S. tax but just stick to Canadian). If you have an incorporated business, our corporate tax rates are actually lower. On the other hand, waiting times can be a bitch here. I did a tax return for a client who didn't want to wait for shoulder surgery (it would have cost him nothing if he did wait - over a year) so he went to a private clinic and paid over $10,000 to get it done immediately. So our system isn't perfect either. But it's not nearly as bad as some of your politicians would have you believe (Pence's claims about our system's outcomes are demonstrably false). And imagine what would happen to wait times in the U.S.A. if all of the uninsured were added to the queues!
r.sal923 wrote:
From a mother Canadian. I work for government and have very good health plan. Go to the doctor 7 months ago for routine check up. She...
From a mother Canadian. I work for government and have very good health plan. Go to the doctor 7 months ago for routine check up. She listens to my heart and it takes her quite a wile and She says that she hears something in there that is not normal. Sends me off for a ultrasound (3 months lAtter). I go back to see her 2 days after that. Guess what I have a leaking valve, she thinks. She Makes a refural to go see specialist . That was sept 10th ish. Am I going to get to see anyone about this? If I pay 5k I would be in next day, I am lucky if I get to see someone in the next year. Hope I don't die
If that was here my doctor would have me walk down the hall for an ultrasound that day (they have all the tests in one building) and then schedule surgery soon after. I'll take our system all day long.
Government doesn't need to run healthcare. Just take care of the people who can't get insurance and leave the rest alone.
I'm lucky, I work for a large corp and have great insurance. But I see how hard it is for the middle class working guy to get good insurance that's affordable. Unfortunately, under Obamacare they are the ones paying the subsidies for others.

As far as the Canadian model. I was at Monster Mountain a couple years ago for a winter riding trip. I happened to pit next to a couple guys from Canada. They were taking a month off and traveling all around the south riding different tracks. One was a small business owner. He owned a body shop. Other guy worked for him.
We were talking and he asked me what I thought of Obamacare. I told him it wasn't working well and was poorly designed.
He went on to tell me how much he disliked their system. Said his buddy messed up his knee riding and waited over 6 months to get an mri. Then had to wait months for surgery. His very quote was "why do you think the hockey players go to the US for medical procedures?".

motogrady
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10/20/2017 5:23am Edited Date/Time 10/20/2017 5:25am
Dtat720 wrote:
Federal courts have ruled at every level subsidies are illegal. The last admin ignored the rulings and paid them anyway. It stayed afloat by skirting its...
Federal courts have ruled at every level subsidies are illegal. The last admin ignored the rulings and paid them anyway. It stayed afloat by skirting its own rules and skirting federal law. Now, even though its been collapsing for 2+ years, its being implemented as written. And it will implode, as it was written to do. Only we have the president in office they werent planning on having for when it collapsed. Thankfully....
Yeah, but even he's not doing anything different.
I saw where Congress is gonna somehow just give the money up to keep it afloat this year.
And Big Bird is okay with it,

Expand and rename The VA. Make it so anyone can go there for the care they can't afford on the free market.
Everyone, including the rich, Congress, Presidents past and present, pays an increase in taxes to fund it.

Is that not fair?
NJKawi913
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10/20/2017 5:36am Edited Date/Time 10/20/2017 5:37am
motogrady wrote:
Yeah, but even he's not doing anything different. I saw where Congress is gonna somehow just give the money up to keep it afloat this year...
Yeah, but even he's not doing anything different.
I saw where Congress is gonna somehow just give the money up to keep it afloat this year.
And Big Bird is okay with it,

Expand and rename The VA. Make it so anyone can go there for the care they can't afford on the free market.
Everyone, including the rich, Congress, Presidents past and present, pays an increase in taxes to fund it.

Is that not fair?
that's a very noble idea, and we all wish it could be that easy. However exactly as you state we buy insurance on a 'free market". Creating a tax funded healthcare provider, and then trying to create a standard for who is eligible for that is impossbile.
motogrady
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10/20/2017 6:24am
motogrady wrote:
Yeah, but even he's not doing anything different. I saw where Congress is gonna somehow just give the money up to keep it afloat this year...
Yeah, but even he's not doing anything different.
I saw where Congress is gonna somehow just give the money up to keep it afloat this year.
And Big Bird is okay with it,

Expand and rename The VA. Make it so anyone can go there for the care they can't afford on the free market.
Everyone, including the rich, Congress, Presidents past and present, pays an increase in taxes to fund it.

Is that not fair?
NJKawi913 wrote:
that's a very noble idea, and we all wish it could be that easy. However exactly as you state we buy insurance on a 'free market"...
that's a very noble idea, and we all wish it could be that easy. However exactly as you state we buy insurance on a 'free market". Creating a tax funded healthcare provider, and then trying to create a standard for who is eligible for that is impossbile.
Who says it's impossible?

Was it impossible to pass Social Security?
Or the VA?
Or Medicare?

No, it's very possible. Just not likely.

Look, they've been screwing around adjusting premiums for years, saying they need to find the balance so they can provide affordable care for the masses.
And when they need more, Uncle Sam just gives it to them.
Why could we not do that, basically in house?
We'd save the 20 % the insurance companies skim off the top right away.

Thing is, insurance companies would lose a golden goose, Trump, Obama, Hillary and their kind, u know, the ones that really care, would all of a sudden have to come up with 2.5 % of their pay to make it work.

Like the rest of us.

And that my friend, is the rub.
MPJC
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Fantasy
10/20/2017 6:58am
Who knew that health care is so complicated?
motogrady
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10/20/2017 7:00am
MPJC wrote:
Who knew that health care is so complicated?
How would we when it had to be passed before we could read it?
early
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10/20/2017 7:06am
motogrady wrote:
How would we when it had to be passed before we could read it?
How many congressional bills have you read front to back this year?
motogrady
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10/20/2017 7:17am
motogrady wrote:
How would we when it had to be passed before we could read it?
early wrote:
How many congressional bills have you read front to back this year?
None. Who could? And they play on that. They almost depend on that.

"Yeah, just bury it in a subsection of some bill, then we'll vote on it when nobody is looking."

Doesn't make it right. Could almost be considered theft by deception.

No. What they're doing, how it was done, is not right.

Unless all pay up, including the ceo of Highmark, and all his executives, and Billy Joel, and Alex Baldwin, and the head of General Electric, all of those that are exempt because they make too much, it's a shakedown of the average, working person. Extortion to those without a tool or voice to really effect change.
early
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10/20/2017 7:23am
motogrady wrote:
None. Who could? And they play on that. They almost depend on that. "Yeah, just bury it in a subsection of some bill, then we'll vote...
None. Who could? And they play on that. They almost depend on that.

"Yeah, just bury it in a subsection of some bill, then we'll vote on it when nobody is looking."

Doesn't make it right. Could almost be considered theft by deception.

No. What they're doing, how it was done, is not right.

Unless all pay up, including the ceo of Highmark, and all his executives, and Billy Joel, and Alex Baldwin, and the head of General Electric, all of those that are exempt because they make too much, it's a shakedown of the average, working person. Extortion to those without a tool or voice to really effect change.
Agreed.

So many procedural tricks that were not intended by the founding fathers.
10/20/2017 7:37am
There is a reason the CEO of United Healthcare made $100 million dollars a year for many years... The insurance companies are not going broke at all. In fact United Healthcare is moving IT jobs to India to save themselves even more money. So not only are the insurance companies making more and more off of the American people, they are outsourcing jobs to overseas and taking away American jobs.

They also push these HSA plans on workers saying it will save them money, but you can't put enough in your HSA account to cover your yearly deductible. Does anyone want to venture a guess when they will start taxing the money you take out of your HSA? I am guessing within a couple of years.

If you do build up enough money in your HSA you are allowed to invest it in the stock market. Who do you think is making money off of your HSA account? The banks, who contribute heavily to campaigns and drive laws.

This system is supposed to drive prices down and create competition by allowing people to shop around for the best price for care. I have not been able to see a price list for anything when I go to the doctor. They have no clue how much it will cost you, they just bill whatever and the insurance company decides how much to pay.

Banks and bug business run this country, not the people or politicians. There is a reason most politicians retire millionaires if they weren't already when going into office.

I'm not sure where healthcare is going, but I can promise the people who work are going to be the ones getting screwed. What other system can make people that don't use their product pay for it so the people who need the product can get it for a cheaper price or even free? Can we ask non-dirtbikers to pay a tax so our dirtbikes are cheaper? Or someone who can't afford a dirtbike, but wants one can get it? People would laugh in your face if you propose that, but for healthcare they are like, yep sign those people up who don't need it so I can get it free!
10/20/2017 7:39am
sgrimmxdad wrote:
Why do people from all over the world come to the US for health care? It is because we have a free market system which drives...
Why do people from all over the world come to the US for health care? It is because we have a free market system which drives competition and keeps quality up. Most places with "governmental" ran healthcare is mediocre at best...

The left F'd up the healthcare system in this country by offering freebies to the less fortunate. As long as they are offering something "FREE" to someone they get that vote....

Meanwhile I am over here paying 2k a month for a family of 4, higher deductible and less coverage than before... Great job Obamacare.....
Are you serious? Almost every study in the world lists the US healthcare near the bottom of first world countries. In my daughters acceptance reception into med school, the dean of medicine was ranting about how poor the healthcare was in the United States and how far we were behind most countries.
10/20/2017 7:39am
I was recently dropped with no notice, no email, call, or letter.

Been paying on the plan since before Obamacare was enacted, roughed out the rate hikes every year, and have never used it. Not once as it's no coverage till 5k out of pocket.

I started on the plan at age 21 and was the type of person the insurers "need".

Healthcare insurance is going to bust and then I believe we will see some government take over somehow and we will then have poor healthcare.

what no one has even tried to address is the cost of services... of which I have no earthly clue why they are so high. putting everyone on an insurance plan was suppossed to lower it... that didn't work.

reded
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10/20/2017 7:48am Edited Date/Time 10/20/2017 7:52am
There is not one person, company or industry in the world who would lower the price of their services or product if EVERYONE were REQUIRED to purchase them. I have no fucking clue how anyone with the mental capacity past kindergarten could think otherwise. The writing was on the wall when Obama forced it upon the American people. How much profit do you think he realized from that mess?
Forty
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10/20/2017 7:53am
It’s not about health care.
motogrady
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10/20/2017 7:53am
sgrimmxdad wrote:
Why do people from all over the world come to the US for health care? It is because we have a free market system which drives...
Why do people from all over the world come to the US for health care? It is because we have a free market system which drives competition and keeps quality up. Most places with "governmental" ran healthcare is mediocre at best...

The left F'd up the healthcare system in this country by offering freebies to the less fortunate. As long as they are offering something "FREE" to someone they get that vote....

Meanwhile I am over here paying 2k a month for a family of 4, higher deductible and less coverage than before... Great job Obamacare.....
Are you serious? Almost every study in the world lists the US healthcare near the bottom of first world countries. In my daughters acceptance reception into...
Are you serious? Almost every study in the world lists the US healthcare near the bottom of first world countries. In my daughters acceptance reception into med school, the dean of medicine was ranting about how poor the healthcare was in the United States and how far we were behind most countries.

I think a lot of that feeling is leftover from the decades recently past, when it really was free market.
Like a lot of stuff, back then we were cutting edge, we were leaders in product, services, almost everything.

Another thing.
Deregulate, or increase the speed and ease to become a doctor. Or lab tech. Or nurse.

What is it, who actually decides how a doctor becomes a doctor?
The American Medical Association?
Let other groups form, The National Medical Association, The Medial Assoiation of the USA.

Why is it that one association has a lock, on what amounts to all of our health and well being?

The medical field, anything but free market when you look at it.
Jack mehoff
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Westminster, MD US
10/20/2017 8:24am
I've had free medical coverage since I enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1966 and the VA since 1970. Best decision I've ever made was enlisting...
I've had free medical coverage since I enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1966 and the VA since 1970. Best decision I've ever made was enlisting. Semper Fi.
Thank you for your service !
early
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10/20/2017 8:31am
motogrady wrote:
I think a lot of that feeling is leftover from the decades recently past, when it really was free market. Like a lot of stuff, back...

I think a lot of that feeling is leftover from the decades recently past, when it really was free market.
Like a lot of stuff, back then we were cutting edge, we were leaders in product, services, almost everything.

Another thing.
Deregulate, or increase the speed and ease to become a doctor. Or lab tech. Or nurse.

What is it, who actually decides how a doctor becomes a doctor?
The American Medical Association?
Let other groups form, The National Medical Association, The Medial Assoiation of the USA.

Why is it that one association has a lock, on what amounts to all of our health and well being?

The medical field, anything but free market when you look at it.
Interested to hear your thoughts on refusal of coverage standards prior to the ACA?
HenryA
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Stockholm SE
10/20/2017 8:35am
Well you could always keep riding without insurance and then start a GoFundMe if you get hurt.... Whistling
10/20/2017 8:39am
The state government I work for pays my and my family's insurance. I guess I'm lucky I never have to worry about if I get hurt.
Jack mehoff
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Westminster, MD US
10/20/2017 8:44am
The way this is going to is a single payer with supplemental insurance plans you will get a base that we have now for the poor Medicare ,Medicade and you can buy a better plan on top off that so the ins company's don't loose out it's not complicated until you put a political Pos in a room witch usually is a layer and we all know who wins in that situation everybody gets screwed except the layer he took everyone's money . So until people get over political party's and vote everyone out after one term we will have the same old shit in this country . Let's face it by the end off one term the political pos s know how to line there pockets . And it's the only way you are going to stop the lobbyists is make them go broke when they have to keep shoveling money out every 4 yrs . Remember next time you go to the voting booth if there is a Incumbent next to there name vote the other way send a message
APLMAN99
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Fantasy
10/20/2017 8:53am
sgrimmxdad wrote:
Why do people from all over the world come to the US for health care? It is because we have a free market system which drives...
Why do people from all over the world come to the US for health care? It is because we have a free market system which drives competition and keeps quality up. Most places with "governmental" ran healthcare is mediocre at best...

The left F'd up the healthcare system in this country by offering freebies to the less fortunate. As long as they are offering something "FREE" to someone they get that vote....

Meanwhile I am over here paying 2k a month for a family of 4, higher deductible and less coverage than before... Great job Obamacare.....
Are you serious? Almost every study in the world lists the US healthcare near the bottom of first world countries. In my daughters acceptance reception into...
Are you serious? Almost every study in the world lists the US healthcare near the bottom of first world countries. In my daughters acceptance reception into med school, the dean of medicine was ranting about how poor the healthcare was in the United States and how far we were behind most countries.
motogrady wrote:
I think a lot of that feeling is leftover from the decades recently past, when it really was free market. Like a lot of stuff, back...

I think a lot of that feeling is leftover from the decades recently past, when it really was free market.
Like a lot of stuff, back then we were cutting edge, we were leaders in product, services, almost everything.

Another thing.
Deregulate, or increase the speed and ease to become a doctor. Or lab tech. Or nurse.

What is it, who actually decides how a doctor becomes a doctor?
The American Medical Association?
Let other groups form, The National Medical Association, The Medial Assoiation of the USA.

Why is it that one association has a lock, on what amounts to all of our health and well being?

The medical field, anything but free market when you look at it.
Whoa, so you're advocating for "medical diploma mills" and eliminating high standards of education for doctors? Really?

On a side note, we just had a fairly major medical expense in my family. Aortic valve replacement (open heart) for my wife. Considering the amount of time that she spent in ICU, the total bill wasn't as much as I thought it was going to be. The grand total was just about $180K, but we'd already met her deductible and maximum out of pocket ($500/$2000), so we only owed for a couple small, uncovered items and my meals from the hospital cafeteria. Just a little over $100. Her insurance is awesome, employer pays her entire premium and she pays just about $300 a month to cover our kids also.
NJKawi913
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10/20/2017 8:55am Edited Date/Time 10/20/2017 8:58am
motogrady wrote:
Who says it's impossible? Was it impossible to pass Social Security? Or the VA? Or Medicare? No, it's very possible. Just not likely. Look, they've been...
Who says it's impossible?

Was it impossible to pass Social Security?
Or the VA?
Or Medicare?

No, it's very possible. Just not likely.

Look, they've been screwing around adjusting premiums for years, saying they need to find the balance so they can provide affordable care for the masses.
And when they need more, Uncle Sam just gives it to them.
Why could we not do that, basically in house?
We'd save the 20 % the insurance companies skim off the top right away.

Thing is, insurance companies would lose a golden goose, Trump, Obama, Hillary and their kind, u know, the ones that really care, would all of a sudden have to come up with 2.5 % of their pay to make it work.

Like the rest of us.

And that my friend, is the rub.
that's what i was getting at. We agree that insurnace companies love the checks our govenment write, and the govenment loves the endless amount of campaign dollars the insurnace companies provide. We are stuck in the middle with a shitty service.
Moto_Geek
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Golden, CO US
10/20/2017 8:55am
HenryA wrote:
Well you could always keep riding without insurance and then start a GoFundMe if you get hurt.... Whistling
Haha, totally true.. Wink
wardy
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US
10/20/2017 9:26am
talk to this guy.
https://www.ridersurance.com/

then buy temp insurance 11 months at a time. save money think outside the box.

hope it works, our family of 4 which 3 race was going north of 2500.00 a month two years ago...................screw it, we are self employed and will have to pay a "penalty" for not getting the approved stuff.

couldn't afford it, barely was making it at 1700 a month.

so.

outside the box. there is insurance out there and Brandon is the guy that is one of us that will find it for you.

ps. my kid broke his femur 2 months ago, coverage we have is united health one/golden rule and it's worked well.
Rooster
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Edmonton CA
10/20/2017 9:36am
Jeebuz I hate watching you guys debate health care.

You've got the most expensive and ineffective system in the world and every time you get bent over by your insurance companies you turn and blame sick and injured people for being sick and injured.

I hope one day you guys get it figured out and stop getting screwed. You really deserve better than you have.

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