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Again, cost for the organizers is 3.8M€ ($4.3M) so by your new calculation you'd be looking at $1.2M profit. Giving 100% of that would amount to $12k per rider, still far from what some US teams are asking.
And somehow, smaller US teams, and smaller federations, send their riders without any issues.
(As an aside, 170€ was the full price adult weekend, unlikely to be the average ticket price, there were not 33k people paying that).
Team manager and associates. The CMA doesn't do much. I think it contributes a small amount towards flights for the riders and that's it.
In order to participate in the SMX finals, a rider needs to finish in the top 30 SMX points for the year. So you can't just show up for round 1 of SMX.
That's cool, they make it work.
Federations are wildly different, here FFM bought dozens of tracks to help them survive, and lends them for free to local motoclubs.
And for MXON, every year FFM puts 200k€ on the table for preparation, logistics, bikes and so on.
In short we have a federation investing in our sport, we know what the riders license fee is used for.
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I know the FFM does a lot for the sport. They’ve been buying motocross tracks for years to help ensure riders continue to have places to ride. I know they help in other ways as well. Helping French riders get to big events and things like that.
It’s great to see. I think a lot of other sanctioning bodies could take a page or two out of their book, but that’s just my opinion.
At the 2007 MXON I was talking with some of the officials that were with the Irish team and they told me that the track has to pay , at the time it was $1M US to get the event to the track. Then Infront gets 100% of every ticket sold up to a set number ( I wanna say it was the first 10K tickets ) and then 30% after that . They did say that there was a number that if sales passed it the track would get 100% of each ticket, but it was a number that sounded impossible at the time and I would be guessing if I said what I think that was. I could be a little off on some details. But I'm pretty sure I'm very close but its been a while.
Infront got a percentage of everything . Each team was given a vender space that they could sell or use themselves. I don't think that Infront took any of that money. I'm not sure on the food sales. But it sounded like the track owners were lucky to make money off the event and they described the promoter as the mafia.
I'm sure that there is a ton of money being made by Infront. And that they could spread it around a little more than they do. But as long as the tracks keep having them come , riders and teams keep showing up, its unlikely they will change. If anything , Deegan asking for money and sitting out could help. If other top guys did the same thing, I bet things would change. There are always some riders who are slower than a top 5 local B class racer there. And they would not pull the crowds they do if a majority of the top guys stuck together and didn't ride. But people give Deegan shit for not going because of money. So its unlikely You'll see enough of the top riders get together and force a change anytime soon.
I think its great that so many riders have the national pride and want to go represent their countries. If the majority of the riders are OK with spending some money to go, well that's up to them. It has made me a fan of Webb where I wasn't one before. I understand they all are doing it as a job. But that doesn't mean that you can not work a few extra days to show the sport how much you love it. And if You feel like You should get paid to go, that's also fine with me. I just don't think its possible to change things up so that riders get paid if You do not get more riders willing to come out and say they want to be paid and are willing to not race unless they are.
No wonder people live from hand to mouth every month with that kind of lack of critical thinking 🤦
Just saw a post on X, 105k attended so 15m in just from that 😂
"As an aside, 170€ was the full price adult weekend, unlikely to be the average ticket price, there were not 33k people paying that"
Okay, what were the prices for just the Saturday and/or Sunday shows? You said 30K paying spectators, but if the total attendance was 105K then that would mean that a LOT more spectators went to just the Friday and/or Saturday events than the Sunday final event. I don't think that is realistic.
And it's easy to claim that the expenses are $4.3M, but that doesn't tell a full story. If the vast majority of the work is done by the 1300 volunteers, where exactly are the expenses that add up to $4.3M? That's the equivalent of almost $1.5M a day in expenses. That's an incredible amount of money for an event put on by volunteers.
But more to my point, I don't blame the local club for charging what the market will bear. That's good business. My point is that it is absolutely crazy to try to force the 'patriotism' horseshit at the riders while everyone else is doing it for the profit involved.
I'm certainly not a Deegan fanboi, and I am not commenting on his desire to get start money. That's up to him, he has to answer to the court of public opinion about that. My only gripe is wrapping the event in a flag in order to try to shame any rider into riding it for free and generating income for everyone but themselves.
I don't believe he would do it for 200k. I think he's scared to get his Assen handed to him. Same deal if he were to win here one year and the next year's event happened to be at Lommel. He's a no-show. Getting smoked is bad for the brand....
These are from the qualifying races on Saturday. Not the entire crowd, I'm sure, but it looks like there was probably a pretty decent turnout. It would be interesting to see the breakdown of ticket sales. You sound like you have an inside track, care to share the actual numbers? It sounds like they are claiming 105K overall, which would 'average' out to about 35K per day. If there were only 30K there on Sunday, what were the Friday and Saturday numbers? They would have had to average 37.5K each day.
Not just ticket sales. Thats a lot of food/beverage/merch sales as well.
yep the "minnows" need the most help............
Tickets sales, camping sales, food and drinks sale, sponsors, tv ..somebody pocketing a bunch of money off the backs of the riders.
Absolutely every rider should get a % of the profit…otherwise the promoters are exploiting them over “ride for your country” ..why the f should they ride for free? And let some sleaze pocket all the money.
Your assumptions are way low. There are at least 60,000 fans on that hill on Sunday. Average ticket price, factoring in weekend tickets, Sunday only, junior etc., is at least $120. That's $7.2m in revenue before the first car is parked, beer sales, merchandise etc. Minimum gross at track is $8m. Then there is TV revenue. I've got no idea but it definitely ain't zero. Infront deserves a profit for sure. But don't pretend there isn't money for the teams to make it close to cost neutral.
Indeed there's a huge discrepancy.
This weekend organizers said they were expecting 28-29k (under the record crowd of 2023, 40k on Sunday, 102k total over 3 days).
On Sunday evening, organizers said total for 3 days was 65-70k, which tracks well with about 30k on Sunday (could be something like 15k on Friday, 25k on Saturday and 30k on Sunday).
https://www.ouest-france.fr/sport/moto/motocross/on-a-releve-le-defi-le…
And now a day later, Infront claims 105k !? That would be in the 40ks spectators on Sunday, like 3 years ago.
I tend to have more trust in the organizer's than promoter's numbers but that difference is huge, don't know where that comes from.
Golfers wanting to be paid for the Ryder Cup has been going on for 20 years or more if memory serves. Professionals like getting paid. In any endeavor.
No one I know in the working world would come to work for free whilst their boss makes millions off of them...
You gotta pay them in some shape or form.
Your boss revenue is increasing, maybe you should work for free?
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Not entirely true. Jed Beaton finished outside the top 30, got an invite and declined. They can invite whoever they want to fill the gate.
Edit to add: Jeremy Hand finished 42nd and Kevin Moranz finished 38th in SMX standings and both got to race.
Double edit to add: I really love how this place downvotes factual comments (with evidence) and zero opinions. 😂
No idea on the numbers, but having an event of this scale where the actual participants who are the show and take 100% of the risk, get nothing, while the promoter and track bring in a sizable return is crazy to me.
I don’t expect a lot, but they should get something. Most certainly not paying.
Don't pay the riders. That's fine. But stfu when the best American riders continuously choose to sit this out when it's not on our side of the globe. US riders have zero ties to FIM or In Front unlike most of the field that comes from the GPs and their series is much longer. So comparing anyone from the US to the rest of the field is pretty silly.
I am not saying anyone should work for free.....but when the customers and the talent keep showing up, why would a purse or per diem be added?
The Monster freestyle guys cost too much to pay the talent people showed up to watch.
These are the figures i am most likely to believe.
I think what he's saying is that as long as everybody keeps showing up, what incentive would the promoters have to pay them? If they are already coming and doing it for free, what would the promoters get out of giving them some of the money? I don't think he is disagreeing that the riders and teams should get some of that money.
Looking at it from the perspective of the promoters I can see why they wouldn't want to dish out millions that nobody( or not enough to impact them) is asking for. To use your example, if Your boss is raking in millions and You are showing up everyday and happy to be there. Why would your boss give you more money? what would they get out of paying you more if You are already there and happy, doing a great job?
I'm not saying its right, or totally ethical. Just that unless there is a demand for pay or profit sharing, there is not incentive for the promotors to give up any of their profits. If they are going to do the same work, for less money and get the same work from the teams and riders, what would their motive be?
On the flipside, if the riders and teams could make the case that profit sharing would grow the entire pie and add value to the race and show. Well that would be another reason for the promotors to start paying. Similar to how a riders agent will make pitches to sponsors for more money by offering the sponsor more value, more promotion , reasons that its worth it for the sponsor to pay that rider or give them more product.
Do we really care about rider pay?
Or sit it out..
Kawasaki started the sit out thing not Deegan (so don’t immediately get upset at me for also mentioning Deegan). Teams and riders taking a stance is the only way they’ll get paid. Because like you guys said, doesn’t make sense for the promoters to voluntarily pay out when it’s already being done for free. I don’t agree with the amount Deegan was wanting, but the teams should get help and the riders should get at least some money with bonuses for podium. The fact that the whole team goes out of pocket for this race is kind of crazy. Are the mechanics and rest of the team also all having to do this for “pride” after a long season? At minimum, teams get help, riders get paid for podiums (I think they should get paid some money regardless).
I do. These guys aren’t making nfl level money or even close. They absolutely deserve to. We all are very aware of how difficult the sport is and how much they go through to be at that elite level and I’m stoked to get to watch it. Get these dudes paid 100%
I agree. But there’s nothing we can do about it. Are we gonna get some kind of global petition going? How are we gonna convince the promoters give the riders more money? How does the promoter convince the OEMs?
Well yah the sitting it out part is the obvious way. And its been the only way that has been tried so far that I can see. And it would also be effective IF enough riders and teams were willing to do it. But is the cost of lost sales due to them not going more than the cost to go? With a big amount of fans being upset that teams and riders wouldn't go in the past, or that they were asking for money to go. I'm sure that cost those brands involved some sales. And if the majority of teams and riders are willing to go and pay to go, that might just mean that they can see the value from going.
I was adding that another way would be to show some added value for the promoters that would appeal to that greedy side. A way for everybody to make more money. And grow the pie instead of just cutting it up into more pieces. Making the riders and teams true partners to grow the race.
When Aplinestars or Fox pays a rider $4M to wear their gear, its because that extra exposer brings in more money than if they had not spent that $4m.
If the riders and teams can come together to somehow increase the size of the pie, than that is another incentive and one that helps everybody involved.
For so long the promoters and teams have really had different reasons for going racing. The teams go racing to promote their sponsors and sell product. And the promoters go racing to grow the fanbase as far as spectators and the show . Its been 2 separate motives for the most part. If they would work together more and do more to benefit the others goals then they could also help each other grow the segments they are trying to grow.
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