Posts
138
Joined
3/25/2019
Location
Beverly Hills, CA, USA
Looks like via IG that star and the Deegan camp may have called Chiz to help with bike setup. Solid person to help with that. He’s worked with Kenny and Chase. 
His set up at Unadilla looked low in the rear. He would enter turns like a bat out of hell, then mid corner he was painfully slow, and the bike was standing up vertical. Then on exit, its all traction loss because he's hammering to make up for his slow mid corner roll through.
If I had to take a crack at a hypothesis, the added rotational mass of the (any) 450 has a tendency to stand the bike vertical from the centripetal force. It's why road replace motors spin the opposite direction of the wheels; to try to mitigate the tendency to stand up. This doesn't exist anywhere near as much with the smaller motor so the 250 doesn't have the same handling issues.
I'll go a step further and say the Yamaha might be the worst of the bunch at that because the cylinder is rhe most vertical and the closest to the shock. The bikes with forward leaning front facing motors probably don't suffer as much from this.
Now they're going to fight suspension settings to fix a rotational physics problem.
I'd almost go crazy and develop a smaller cc, maybe 400, same bore, decreased stroke, higher rpm ceiling, and have him go rip that to see. I mean, if I was in Japan, in Yamahas machine shop.
Since the start of the season the Honda bikes have looked buttery smooth in all the track conditions, deegans bike looks like the back tire is fighting to stay in contact with the ground. Last race i noti ed him riding the back wheel more then usual .
Yeah I completely disagree with this. Expanding on my prior post, coming from a 250F, as soon as I rode a friend's '23 gen YZ450F, I couldn't believe how easy it lays into turns and doesn't even feel like a 450, as far as chassis feel. It actually corners better than the prior gen Yamaha 250F, as far as front end response and how the bike does exactly what you want, in a rutted corner. That aspect alone is what got me wanting one and now I have the '26, which is a little different but still has that same general characteristic. So again, I hate comparing showroom or average ppl's bikes to a factory bike, but your theory on the YZs wanting to stand up in corners, I don't think is an inherent trait of those bikes, in fact I think it's actually the opposite.
If anything I think Haiden's aggressive style is exactly they type of rider that fits the Yamaha. I don't think you can just throw him on an HRC bike and it's going to look super calm, like how the Lawrences look. Keefer explained a couple years ago how it's so much easier to get the Hondas to work for those guys because they are so efficient and float around the track. HD is a different rider and it's never going to look as settled as it would with someone who riders like Jett. And to be fair, there are several times this summer where the Honda's have kicked around or done something weird (and how many crashes.) But since Reed didn't make an IG post about that or because the Lawrence's are winning, it doesn't get brought up. Deegan has made very few mistakes and hasn't hardly crashed at all. I think he will mesh with the bike eventually, and his style will evolve. But it's a stretch to point to the bike as holding him back or being an actual problem area, imo.
Its all compounding issues really.
In his recent youtube video is said his fitness is not what he thought it would be.
Then there is raw speed.
Then there is the bike setup.
Probably a more difficult situation than a simple suspension change can fix and TBH, its just time on the bike at this point.
The Shop
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
I've been wondering whether Deegan's physical stature (not fitness) is optimum for a 450. Seems like aside from RC, most of the riders who have had sustained success on 450s have a taller, lanky stature that gives them more leverage to throw the bike around and a better ability to soak up humps, bumps and terrain changes. Jett and Hunter certainly fall into this category, but others do too -- Tomac, Gasjer, Herlings, Dungey, etc. I supposed a factory team can make bike adjustments to address this, but it could be that this is just an additional hurdle for #38.
Definitely agree with your first and second paragraphs. But I think with rider adjustment and bike settings they can get it figured out.
What he said is factually correct, rolling on throttle makes any bike want to stand up from the increased gyroscopic effects. A 450 will have a larger gyroscope due to larger moving mass. You can see the bike want to stand on deegs when he hammers the throttle. Settings and technique should fix the issue with some time.
There may be some fact in that, as a general statement. But not every 450 feels the same. And he also said the Yamaha may feel the worst at that because of the angle of the cylinder, and I disagree. I'm just saying that to me, it's just a stretch to peg that bike as unsettled or having that typical 450 feel where it is clunky side to side or want to stand up in turns. It's probably the best in that aspect, out of any 450 that I've ridden. So I am just pointing out that I don't see an inherent flaw in the bike or the design of a Yamaha specifically, from my experience.
New test rider for deegs and new mechanic for 27…..
There is not an inherent flaw, you are correct with that. But Deegs def seems to be suffering from those issues whether its his own set up mistakes as well as some growing pains of moving up. I hear what your saying though!
To be fair, not a single bike out there will handle well when you are on the rev limiter into corners and out of corners. That rear end is always bound while the Lawrences who ride the bike properly, in lower rpms, frees up the chassis. With that said, they have the particular advantage of both of them being fast, having similar setups, and can compare to get the best setup possible. Technique, bike setup, and the rider will evolve with time. Hell, he is this good riding it the hard way. Fun to see the evolution
All he needs is just another 5hp, then he can bulldog that 450 into winning!
Chiz can also help him with baseline for SX as well since HD’s only SX was a wsx race last year. So having Chiz around is def a great tool in the arsenal moving forward if things workout.
Yeah for sure, I certainly don't think HD is totally dialed just yet. And not pin-pointing blame on anything/one in particular. What @Zycki11 said above is pretty much how I am seeing it also. I've just seen many comments that are almost acting like the team/bike is holding him back. I just don't see it that way at all. I don't think there is a move they make with that bike that puts him into contention. That will come as he evolves. And HD's consistency this year has been great, for how hard he rides the bike. That shows me that the bike is actually overall pretty good too. And it's just little details that he has to clean up in his riding, and then I think the set-up will follow once his style is established.
I'm saying "to.you" is invalid. Physics don't care about what you felt on your buddy's 2023 450.
He isn't going to find a set up that let's him ride a 450 like he rode a 250. Deegan is young enough and talented enough that he can adapt and improve his riding style, and he should focus on that. I hear Carmichael saying that a wild riding style worked for him so Deegan could make it work. I don't buy it. Name a single other champion that rode like Carmichael. For the big bikes, smooth is fast.
I'm not arguing that a 450 by nature will respond more aggressively to those forces (compared to a 250F), because of the weight placement and rotating mass. But everyone out there is on a 450, so it's a mute point. There is an adjustment period to stepping up from a 250F and HD has some things to figure out in his technique. But I'm just saying that it seems as if you are pointing at HD's bike / Yamaha in general, in particular, to having that sensation more than another bike. And if that is the case then I think what I am saying is very valid. And I would assume most that have ridden a newer YZ will agree that it's 1 of the best at laying over and resisting that urge to pop up. Unless you can look at spec sheets and tell us all exactly how each 450 rides based on just that. And I don't think you can. So here we are.
If that's the case its probably because his current wrench is sick of the BS.
If he said his fitness isn't where it needs to be... that to me is inexcusable at that level. Its the one thing you have full control over.
Pit Row
All his bike needs is a red fender on back.
Not really. Its not like he cant crack the top 10. We are talking about the game from 3rd to beating the brothers without them wrecking. Currently no one else has the goods either in MX. At least he is honest about it.
I mean, as a rookie, without racing Jett and Hunter on the 450 how would you know? Also consider all Haiden's training partners. Who is even close to him? Cooper?
Hannah
Takes time to build, its evolution.
They'll race when they're ready.
Seen many a Honda handle like shit. It’s all about the communication between the rider and team.
Anyone else remember when deegan would make fun of the riders who always said they need to work on the bike and stuff?
Yep, remember it clearly. Then again I also remember the year Clayton Delaney died too.
If you mean like his Honda competitors, they're also blue.
Hannah wasn't riding a 450 4-stroke.
RC, Eli, RV
His fitness is the biggest thing holding him back, he has the pace early in the motos, but fades, he can make his riding style work but he needs more high intensity endurance.
Post a reply to: Deegan bike setup