We NEED works bikes again

Like the Lawrence’s and Deegan and so forth need more power and advantage 😂🤪

Well we already get close to true works bikes with the various “works edition” models each year.

Also it’s been quite a long time since GP bikes were truly exotic, one off “works” machines.  For example, KTM has been using basically production prototypes of the next model as their GP factory team bikes for probably over a decade.

Others will have better info but to my recollection the last truly works bikes were the early 2000’s YZM500 that Everts rode and the KTM570 of Smets.

And the lapper problem isn't bad enough as it is.

In my opinion, the production rule of 1985 did very little.    It was supposed to bridge the gap between privateer teams and the factory teams, but the gap still seems to be the same.   It was Yamaha's idea at the time, and they probably just didnt' have Honda's budget back then.    Bring it back, and either set a few minor limits, or bring the claming rule back with a high dollar cost.

I think if they allowed changes to be made for chassis/handling purposes then I think that makes sense. Given the different stress that SX puts on a bike w an elite pro, it's probably totally different from what works best for a production chassis for normal ppl (and where they ride.) So potentially both sides win there. The pros get what they need and we get a chassis that they arent trying to meet in the middle, on the showroom.

Outside of that though, I just wouldn't want crazy electronics to creep in anymore. I already think start maps, fork devices, tall starting blocks and metal grates is too much. I like keeping the racing pure. I don't think MotoGP got better with all the aero, ride height changes and electronics. At some point, I think it's too much. Just my opinion.

Supercross = keep it AMA rules. Homologation, CC''s, etc.

Outdoors = Full on works bikes, run what ya brung. Give these teams the summer to develop/test new tech in front of the American audience, spark interest in what could possibly be next years model, open pits like in NHRA so the fans can see these bikes up close which in turn get the fans excited and happy their $100 ticket, 2+hrs in traffic, and ez-up blocking was worth the money

It's always been the rider, not the bike, how else do you explain a production based CR125 and CR250 beating works RC500Ms and KX500s

Works bikes are cool and advance the bikes. Bring them back.

Why would you want homologation rules for sx when the customer base the factories are selling to don't race sx? You'd want the exact opposite, works bikes for sx because it is so far removed from what the larger customer base is doing. Homologation rules for mx because that's what the consumer is actually riding.

Herlings would disagree at this point ...

( we have to post here lol or were getting clicked / suspended,  booted for only posting in Non Moto  " Basically " ..so if you have seen an up tic from us  thats why ) lol

Yes to works bikes. Limit traction control and electronic suspension.

Racers would be better off. OEM distributors in the U.S. would not like it though.

Probably won't happen anymore factories don't wanna spend that kind of money. On handful of one off bikes like they were doing. 

That's partly why yamaha was so vocal about a certain red bike company. Was dumping more $$$ into them. Then the 3 other brands combined. 

What is there left to make works? carbon fiber frame? pneumatic valves?

Weight and sound limit should be the only rules.

A vtwin 250 2 stroke. A vtwin 250f and 450f. Or even inline twins. Specifically the four stroke engine could be used for road bike r and d. Who wants a 70hp 250 that revs 12k rpm? Me haha

Also: some type of camless four stroke(could be made to run as a two stroke at lower rpm then as the revs get insane switch over to four stroke mode).

Production bikes stepped way up when works bikes went away, and since I’ll never get a works bike, I say keep the production based bikes. Especially in the 250 class, I’d like to see 250 race bikes closer to production bikes.

Full works bikes just widen the gap between privateers and the factory guys. 

And bring back the claiming rule, without the factory shenanigans. 

Star Racing will never support the claiming rule.

Yeah I just don't see what where the big gains would be.  Suspension is already unrestricted for 450 class, and it's not like they are trying to squeeze every ounce of power out of a 450.  Maybe the only thing would be less restriction on frame modifications.

thats pneumatic valves, less the port thing for 2t mode idk. 

You contradict yourself- you want works bikes to push development limits, yet call for limits on technology. 

You can’t have it both ways. 
 

I’d prefer to see them all race stock bikes. 

if we went ‘works’ not much is going to change. 

Seeing legit works bikes in the flesh was truly a sight to behold.  The gas tanks, swingarms, and multitude of hand made parts was just incredible.  I remember seeing them in the parking lot of the Rochester MN Holiday Inn parking lot during Millville race weekend.  The mechanics would wrench ‘em right there in the parking lot!

The 1986 production rule killed the works bike but today I’m not smart enough and too lazy to research what is unobtanium on, let’s say 18’s bike.  Does the frame have a VIN #?  Does a rule keeper disassemble the motorcycle and check bore, stroke, timing, weight, etc., etc.?  They don’t, right?  Is it just a “trust us” sort of deal?

I’ve also asked about how awesome it’d be to see an isotopic, molecular comparison between a USA bike (18 for example), a GP bike (84 for example), and a Japanese nationals bike.  What are the differences between the three bikes?

Imagine the pile of crap they'd develop if Tucker Sexton had input on a 'works' bike...

Exactly. Ian just said the difference between Coenen bike is fuel and sound. 

I think only time they go to works bike today in MXGP, is to test new models or when there is a specific problem they try to solve.

Also think it is budget related. You have 4-5 guys specialized on various parts of the bike for every team or rider today. Back in the day you had 1 or 2 mechanics who did it all. 

Back when proper works bikes were a thing, bikes changed so much , year to year , that if you had a 2 year old bike, you may as well have stayed home. 

Now they are the same as they were 15 years ago, stuff gets changed for the sake of it, and the fact Kenny wins on a bike that has had 'Bold New Graphics' since 2012, tells us everything we need to know. 

Have you ridden a 450? There are 10 people on planet earth that need more out of them than as they sit on the dealership floor. 

Go look at pit bits. Stuff is works enough. 

I think what the 450 class needs is a Pro Circuit KX327.  

Yup

Nah it's ok as it is  

KTM have a bit of an advantage on the others due to their pre production Fees you could argue