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So, is the 125, 250 and open the ABC classes? I was looking for specific classes, but is that how they list them? Thanks in advance.
And, if that is the case, why are magazines not running the 150 2 strokes v 250 and 300/350 in the 450 shootouts, since again the mags are for the public and buyers of bikes. Not for pro racers.
Thanks. Guess we need to start harping the mags to run them in the shootouts. 327, 350, 450. 250cc both 2 and 4 in the 250 shootouts. Because how many amateurs buy bikes for their racing and how many pros buy their bikes? Pretty sure amateurs buy the bulk, and they're not being told the whole lineup they want to compare beforehand.
I’m over 60 now and haven’t gone anything remotely fast in decades…. But a couple decades ago, I preferred the lighter, more “flickable” feel of the smaller 2T’s vs the early 4T’s. I’ve held on to that feeling for years. It’s just my opinion and I’m sticking to it. So, if I wanted an open class bike, the 327 would be it.
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So, you basically want another video like this?
No. Those are just one off's. Since it's legitimately for the buyer, it should be the full shootouts, that include all that can be ridden in each class. Let the chips fall where they fall. You include a 327, and 350 2 stroke in the shootout, and I bet they won't be last place in that shootout. Just because in the KTM video, one is better than another, it doesn't mean a Kawi or Suzuki 450 would beat a 350 etc. Not specifically pointing to a certain oem, just saying the 2 strokes probably won't be last place. And specifically, what if the new 327 placed first? What happens to the whole 20 year, 4 strokes are just better than 2 strokes?
Makes sense. That’s a lot of bikes, which could cause some practical challenges if they have limited time to do the shootout. But it would be interesting to see.
In reality, the vast bulk aren't bought by racers at all.
Even amateur level racers are but a small percentage of the sales, so why worry about it from a manufacturer standpoint?
Kawasaki will sell every single one that they make regardless of any racing class legalities.
You left out the 2 Stroke Beta 300 &:350
"Its the guy twistin the throttle " could make for a nice t-shirt on race day
100% agree with that, but magazines seem to advertise and promote racing per say. Specifically they mainly promote 4 strokes in shootouts, which they use only pro racing guidelines. We don't see car magazines doing comparisons only of NASCAR rules, they do them for the average buyer. Why do they only use proama rules when doing the shootouts? Again, my point, most likely 2 strokes won't be last place. So that makes them relevant and should be included. I can pretty much guarantee, in the 250 shootouts, 2 strokes won't be last.
The 327 will be well received in the reviews but will performance be far and away better than other available open class 300 2ts? I am not so sure. The extra 27 CC over Austrian 300s may translate to a bit more acceleration on paper but in a real world scenario, tbd. And perhaps the displacement and transmission ratios require slightly less shifting. Still, AFAIK none of those available 300 2ts are claimed to be better than a 450 4t for moto. More likely the magazine reviews TLDR will read like "fun factor" goes to 327 but "better moto platform" remains with the 450.
Now for off-road racing (except desert racing) unless you are Stu or Grant Baylor, a 300-ish 2t is simply better than a 450 4t. Lower weight, lower COG, more nimble, more low end grunt, etc translates to a better racing platform.
I wouldn't hate that. Not holding my breath for it though, either.
I disagree somewhat. Meaning, I don't believe the 2 strokes would be last place in those shootouts. Thus, means "better moto platform" would be wrong against some of the 450s. And again, especially in the 250 class. The 2 strokes aren't placing last. Guaranteed
Dyno charts seem to be very similar on the beta 350 vs these 450s https://www.vitalmx.com/features/2026-450-motocross-shootout-vital-mx
Agree, a lot of bikes. But they sure seem to be able to add in more 4 strokes when they arrive, like Ducati, Triump, etc.
Matt Denecke’s YZ400 makes 70hp to the wheel. This 327 is probably low to mid 60’s.
? Not sure what that is supposed to mean. Comparing stock to mod? Don't get the reference. Please advise.
Magazines HAVE to promote that because we are all using non EPA approved dirt bikes in areas where we should all have spark arrestors and quiet pipes...
If they shot out the bikes the way we actually used them it would spell massive problems for the industry and users as a whole.
Pit Row
No it , the 327, won't come with that level of HP.
It absolutely, easily could be tuned to over 60+HP - as 450s could easily be tuned to 70+.
And, how the Starks can be bought with the ability to run them at their claimed 80 HP.
But being rideable and usable for the average , or even above average rider - no, none of those High HP settings examples would be useable.
Note - Matt Denecke's YZ400, Is fantastic - such a clever man! It's ( that sort of capacity) what would really be needed to compete with 450s 4Ts, at the higher levels.
The last of the Road Race 125 GP bikes were said to have 54HP - and, the 'favoured' Riders / Teams, a bit more with (even higher level) kits and help from Aprilia.
What really aggravates me is how, as Last2Stroke shows with his provision of that list, in DCs Amateur Empire ( and GNCC) , equivalency exists. As it exists in so many other jurisdictions.
That so many Don't know that those rules have applied for years now, in your own country, puzzles me.
But, In his fiefdom of MX Sports, with AMA PRO, the crap of displacement difference, carries on. As it does in MXGPs. The funny thing is, EMX250, allows equivalency.
It's been shown, Many times, that the AMA, when asked about the rules for PRO MX (and, SX?) say that MX Sports (and Feld?) has the say on the rules. I forget though, the name of the 'group' that DC takes rules to - the group of manufacturers - and, he's often said that they, veto equivalency.
We've a sport, that, even at the Highest level, is still so very relevant to what we, the buying public ride / race. There's NO F1 car or class for the 'civilian' to buy and race with. Well, unless they are Millionaires / Billionaires.........
I've always wanted full equivalency; the 4ts , decades ago, moved on from XR / TT/ DR/ KLX 'mode', and they are Absolute Weapons.
And, equivalency Will Not make 4ts redundant - by sheer weight of numbers, and Ever Further Development to come, they would Not be swamped by 2ts. And, especially, significantly smaller capacity 2ts such as 300s / 327s, 350s, in the 450 class.
As an aside - a few Dyno charts show the new Beta 350 2T with 48 /49 HP. And some squawk at that : " they're gutless". That, is BS of the highest order ( in terms of them being 'gutless') .
They, as std, are set up as an easy bike to ride . But, I can tell you, with a simple PV adjustment, some jetting, it feels like just those mods, get them right into the low 50s range. I've a couple of mates with them, and have ridden them in either setting. It will be interesting to see the difference when one of the owners (2) different pipes arrive from Europe, and the adjustable head he's got coming, goes on. I myself, have enjoyed my riding on either set up of the bikes. To be honest, I prefer the std set up - well, with just a slight jetting and PV 'fiddle'.
My dealer told me December. October would be great but I’m mentally preparing to wait until December and honestly wouldn’t be surprised if it was January.
The wait doesn’t bother me so much as we are nearing the end of riding season (for me anyways) here in North Texas. I rode yesterday and had to leave super early in the morning and was done by noon. Once it gets over 95 my inner fair weather rider hangs it up until cooler temps arrive in late Sept/early Oct.
Ummm, I don't understand. The EPA has no regulations over closed course motorcycles. They can't approve or disapprove them. That was all a lie told to us from the beginning. It's a law, they can't do anything regarding 2 stroke closed course bikes. Also, if 4 strokes were actually made quiet, they wouldn't even compete against 2 strokes.
I would have to agree.
Exactly! It's exactly why they won't let even 150cc and 300cc 2 strokes in pro mx. If those 4 strokes are so damn much better than 2 strokes, why won't they let those little cc changes occur?
300s, 327s. 350s aren’t even close to 450s.
Specifically pertaining to the 350, people who have ridden them would disagree, and dyno charts as well. The 350 is made super mellow, and still shows similar dyno hp and torque ratings. As well, do you really think Beta makes the best version of a 350 that can be made yet? Props for them making them for sure. But they will get better as the years go by.
Here's a race looks like amateurs, and I hear plenty of 4 strokes in it, most likely 450s since it's a 350. Wouldn't be allowed in a 250 class. Sure seems plenty comparable. Again, the mags are supposed to be running these shootouts for amateur riders
Exactly. And while this has a counter balance shaft and EFI, no advancements are implemented for broadening the torque curve. People refer to it as a modern 2T, but the technology that governs performance is straight out of the 80s. And I'm not sure anyone would appreciate the complexity required to implement "KDX off the bottom, KX on top" type power.
Still love 2 strokes, have several in my garage. In the right conditions they are phenomenal, but when you have low traction coming out of a corner and have to immediately clear a man made obstacle the 4T is just better.
Let me get a couple things cleared up. The EPA was never a concern, because it's a law they can't touch closed course race bikes. 2nd, ProAMA didn't mess up the rules. Yamaha went into the meeting and stated, they can't consistently BEAT the 250 2 stroke with less than a 450cc 4 stroke. That means they wanted to beat them, not compare to them. It was always to eliminate the 2 stroke, never have them comparable.
Is anybody else concerned there is no KX327 yet? Like the images were digital renderings. Where's the pre-production bikes? Who's testing them?
Yep. It’s not here…yet. Lots of chatter and stuff and then another timespan of waiting.
I think it will eventually get here to the US, but I expect a longer delay then expected (as seems to be the modas operanda of this project)
The 350 is the closest, but oddly no magazine, YouTuber, or hop up shop has shown a full race mode. Fully modded - stronger/ smoother/ longer powerband and it would be really close to a 450.
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