What is wrong with the Kawi?

Zycki11
Posts
7779
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Edwardsville, IL US
5/19/2026 6:26am
APLMAN99 wrote:
The philosophy behind this discussion is pretty interesting. I might be wrong, but it seems like a fair amount of people are saying that because the...

The philosophy behind this discussion is pretty interesting. I might be wrong, but it seems like a fair amount of people are saying that because the Kawasaki doesn’t handle Chase’s preferred riding style perfectly, then the bike sucks. But how far does that belief extend?  Does that mean that every rider who has to adapt their riding style at all is proving that the bike they are riding sucks?  What if Tomac decided that he wanted to skim the whoops sitting on the seat and the bike kept pogoing him over the bars no matter how much work the team put in to try to make it work?  Is that the bike’s fault, or is that a case where the rider needs to adapt his approach instead of just demanding that the way he wants to ride is perfect and if the bike doesn’t handle it perfectly, the bike is dog shit?  

Obviously that’s hyperbolic, but it’s a serious issue about how far you take a philosophy before you decide that it’s not a universal truth. 

Easy litmus test is looking at consistent success and happiness if riders. One could argue Honda, seems pretty tickled pink. One could argue Yamaha is doing well. Would you say the same for Kawasaki? Not because of the drought alone. But equate both factors and you tend to find your answer pretty quickly. 

1
DonM
Posts
8608
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
Fantasy
5/19/2026 6:38am

Listen to Jake Weimer on Pulpmx a while back.

jps256 wrote:
Just had a listen, Sounds like a chassis issue and a refusal to test things specifically related to chassis (not suspension). Maybe a change in personnel...

Just had a listen, Sounds like a chassis issue and a refusal to test things specifically related to chassis (not suspension). Maybe a change in personnel is needed to move forward

pops wrote:

Might be happening!!!🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️😁😁😁

Bruce or Dan? Or both?….knowing Kawi they will probably let Dan go as the scapegoat and keep the real problem in place….

6
5/19/2026 6:40am

I'm sure you guys know who Bimota is, but for those that dont, they're an Italian motorcycle company that focuses on street bikes, and tends to use other MFGs engines in their platforms. 

For WSBK they are partnered with Kawasaki. Its a Bimota chassis, with a ZX10 motor. 

It would be a wild marketing move, but if Kawasaki pulled Bimota over to do a KX450 chassis, then offered the 400 of the chassis as a catalog item to get homologated... basically it would be a smokescreen big enough to cover up the dumpster fire happening with the team. 

1
2

The Shop

5/19/2026 6:54am Edited Date/Time 5/19/2026 6:56am

Does anyone remember when it seemed like the US vs Euro guys debate was on fire, and Tomac had just dominated the 2018 outdoor series, and then Kawasaki thought “You know what? Let’s put him on this all new from the ground up bike MxDN with little to no testing”.


Am I remembering that right?

7
5/19/2026 6:55am

I can tell you via a spanish insider that for Jorge the bike felt too soft and unstable, at some point it even felt more like an enduro bike

1
1
APLMAN99
Posts
12435
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR US
Fantasy
5/19/2026 7:37am
aees wrote:
He is keeping back the pace because he would crash if he tried to go faster. Just as Prado, they don't trust the bike when they...

He is keeping back the pace because he would crash if he tried to go faster. Just as Prado, they don't trust the bike when they push because it doesn't behave as it should.

He already said he needs to ride wide lines and around the bumps becuse the bikes doesn't turn. So much weight on the front, they probaby have to make it rear steering to be able to ride it. Consistent with what others have said and how Villo and Febvre and even Anderson can ride.

Chase is about 0.5-1sec slower on it compared to KTM if you look at qualifying. So any win is completely circumstantial and can't be repeated if even the smallest contributing condition isn't there.

APLMAN99 wrote:
How are you coming up with your 0.5-1sec slower numbers?  Tracks are not the same from session to session, let alone year to year. Riders improve...

How are you coming up with your 0.5-1sec slower numbers?  Tracks are not the same from session to session, let alone year to year. Riders improve or decline year over year. I get that you might believe that the numbers are correct, however that’s an opinion and nowhere near a proven, or even provable, fact. 

aees wrote:
There are several years of data from Chase in qualification. The other riders hasn't changed. Sorry, but they haven't. Jett will still, together with Chase, be...

There are several years of data from Chase in qualification. The other riders hasn't changed. Sorry, but they haven't. Jett will still, together with Chase, be the only ones that can put 0.5sec or more on them In qualification. Then you have a mix of 5-6 riders at same lap times swapping positions depending on conditions and bike setup.

You need to be very ignorant not to see, he can't go as fast consistently on the kawi as he was able to on the Honda and KTM.

Are you actually saying that riders never improve or decline and wherever they were in the ‘pecking order’ of speed a couple of years ago is exactly where they are?  And that they stay in that order for their entire career?  

Please tell me you can see how silly that sounds. 

2
2
APLMAN99
Posts
12435
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Tualatin, OR US
Fantasy
5/19/2026 7:49am
APLMAN99 wrote:
The philosophy behind this discussion is pretty interesting. I might be wrong, but it seems like a fair amount of people are saying that because the...

The philosophy behind this discussion is pretty interesting. I might be wrong, but it seems like a fair amount of people are saying that because the Kawasaki doesn’t handle Chase’s preferred riding style perfectly, then the bike sucks. But how far does that belief extend?  Does that mean that every rider who has to adapt their riding style at all is proving that the bike they are riding sucks?  What if Tomac decided that he wanted to skim the whoops sitting on the seat and the bike kept pogoing him over the bars no matter how much work the team put in to try to make it work?  Is that the bike’s fault, or is that a case where the rider needs to adapt his approach instead of just demanding that the way he wants to ride is perfect and if the bike doesn’t handle it perfectly, the bike is dog shit?  

Obviously that’s hyperbolic, but it’s a serious issue about how far you take a philosophy before you decide that it’s not a universal truth. 

Zycki11 wrote:
Easy litmus test is looking at consistent success and happiness if riders. One could argue Honda, seems pretty tickled pink. One could argue Yamaha is doing...

Easy litmus test is looking at consistent success and happiness if riders. One could argue Honda, seems pretty tickled pink. One could argue Yamaha is doing well. Would you say the same for Kawasaki? Not because of the drought alone. But equate both factors and you tend to find your answer pretty quickly. 

Happiness is such a subjective measurement that it really doesn’t make sense to include it in any reference to a litmus test. And no one is claiming that the bike or the team is perfect in any way. As has been pointed out earlier by others, two (or more) things can be true at the same time. The bike can have traits that need to be adapted to. The team can be slow or resistant to change. And some riders can be stubborn and refuse to change their approach and blame everything on the bike and the team. 

For Sexton, he has a strong recent pattern of ‘not gelling’ with his bikes. It would be silly to not consider that when looking at this situation also. 

4
2
5/19/2026 7:49am

Does R. Feberve say he loves the KX450. I get he won the MXGP but does he openly say the bike is awesome. 

What other pros ride the KX450 and think it’s a great bike?

It just might not be that great of a bike all the time. Their window is narrow, the geometry (flex etc) needs to be more tunable in response to bike balance and weight shifts. 

Avg. Joe gives great reviews and loves the bike. 

1
1
Zycki11
Posts
7779
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Edwardsville, IL US
5/19/2026 9:04am
APLMAN99 wrote:
The philosophy behind this discussion is pretty interesting. I might be wrong, but it seems like a fair amount of people are saying that because the...

The philosophy behind this discussion is pretty interesting. I might be wrong, but it seems like a fair amount of people are saying that because the Kawasaki doesn’t handle Chase’s preferred riding style perfectly, then the bike sucks. But how far does that belief extend?  Does that mean that every rider who has to adapt their riding style at all is proving that the bike they are riding sucks?  What if Tomac decided that he wanted to skim the whoops sitting on the seat and the bike kept pogoing him over the bars no matter how much work the team put in to try to make it work?  Is that the bike’s fault, or is that a case where the rider needs to adapt his approach instead of just demanding that the way he wants to ride is perfect and if the bike doesn’t handle it perfectly, the bike is dog shit?  

Obviously that’s hyperbolic, but it’s a serious issue about how far you take a philosophy before you decide that it’s not a universal truth. 

Zycki11 wrote:
Easy litmus test is looking at consistent success and happiness if riders. One could argue Honda, seems pretty tickled pink. One could argue Yamaha is doing...

Easy litmus test is looking at consistent success and happiness if riders. One could argue Honda, seems pretty tickled pink. One could argue Yamaha is doing well. Would you say the same for Kawasaki? Not because of the drought alone. But equate both factors and you tend to find your answer pretty quickly. 

APLMAN99 wrote:
Happiness is such a subjective measurement that it really doesn’t make sense to include it in any reference to a litmus test. And no one is...

Happiness is such a subjective measurement that it really doesn’t make sense to include it in any reference to a litmus test. And no one is claiming that the bike or the team is perfect in any way. As has been pointed out earlier by others, two (or more) things can be true at the same time. The bike can have traits that need to be adapted to. The team can be slow or resistant to change. And some riders can be stubborn and refuse to change their approach and blame everything on the bike and the team. 

For Sexton, he has a strong recent pattern of ‘not gelling’ with his bikes. It would be silly to not consider that when looking at this situation also. 

Your bouncing between the two. The original topic is what is wrong with Kawi.  Rider "happiness" does play a role in the equation as happiness is related to team environment, progress, and comfort.  All of the metrics add up to the rider being in a home they are happy with for a long stent of time, or simply a stop to the next team.  

1
Presley155
Posts
315
Joined
6/4/2012
Location
Littleton, CO US
5/19/2026 9:28am

This may have been addressed previously, but do we know if Chase rode the bike before signing with Kawi? 

uncledaddy69
Posts
2421
Joined
4/2/2011
Location
Huntington Beach, CA US
5/19/2026 9:57am
Presley155 wrote:

This may have been addressed previously, but do we know if Chase rode the bike before signing with Kawi? 

He did. So did Prado. 

2
VHM
Posts
527
Joined
9/11/2020
Location
NO
Fantasy
5/19/2026 10:35am
Does R. Feberve say he loves the KX450. I get he won the MXGP but does he openly say the bike is awesome. What other pros ride...

Does R. Feberve say he loves the KX450. I get he won the MXGP but does he openly say the bike is awesome. 

What other pros ride the KX450 and think it’s a great bike?

It just might not be that great of a bike all the time. Their window is narrow, the geometry (flex etc) needs to be more tunable in response to bike balance and weight shifts. 

Avg. Joe gives great reviews and loves the bike. 

3
joshd
Posts
724
Joined
3/17/2016
Location
Lucedale, MS US
5/19/2026 11:19am

The bike itself is probably ok or fixable. Just not under the current management. 

4
1
aees
Posts
2777
Joined
8/20/2015
Location
US
5/19/2026 1:02pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
How are you coming up with your 0.5-1sec slower numbers?  Tracks are not the same from session to session, let alone year to year. Riders improve...

How are you coming up with your 0.5-1sec slower numbers?  Tracks are not the same from session to session, let alone year to year. Riders improve or decline year over year. I get that you might believe that the numbers are correct, however that’s an opinion and nowhere near a proven, or even provable, fact. 

aees wrote:
There are several years of data from Chase in qualification. The other riders hasn't changed. Sorry, but they haven't. Jett will still, together with Chase, be...

There are several years of data from Chase in qualification. The other riders hasn't changed. Sorry, but they haven't. Jett will still, together with Chase, be the only ones that can put 0.5sec or more on them In qualification. Then you have a mix of 5-6 riders at same lap times swapping positions depending on conditions and bike setup.

You need to be very ignorant not to see, he can't go as fast consistently on the kawi as he was able to on the Honda and KTM.

APLMAN99 wrote:
Are you actually saying that riders never improve or decline and wherever they were in the ‘pecking order’ of speed a couple of years ago is...

Are you actually saying that riders never improve or decline and wherever they were in the ‘pecking order’ of speed a couple of years ago is exactly where they are?  And that they stay in that order for their entire career?  

Please tell me you can see how silly that sounds. 

Tell me what is different, because that is exactly as silly. Or actually sillier, because nothing has changed.

You could put 2024 on 2026, and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Besides Sexton.

4
5/19/2026 1:15pm

I wanna know where all the people are who shit on Prado saying it was him and not the bike. They'll be eating more crow this summer I'm sure. 

5
4
DonM
Posts
8608
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
Fantasy
5/19/2026 1:19pm
I wanna know where all the people are who shit on Prado saying it was him and not the bike. They'll be eating more crow this...

I wanna know where all the people are who shit on Prado saying it was him and not the bike. They'll be eating more crow this summer I'm sure. 

Yeah but was it the bike that quit or him…

5
7
M1000
Posts
591
Joined
10/21/2020
Location
CA
5/19/2026 1:20pm

Didn’t McGrath have lot of input on the kx450f. From 2016-2026. He (MC), is in many Kawasaki commercials. 

DonM
Posts
8608
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
Fantasy
5/19/2026 1:22pm
M1000 wrote:

Didn’t McGrath have lot of input on the kx450f. From 2016-2026. He (MC), is in many Kawasaki commercials. 

No….and neither does RV now….

3
GrapeApe
Posts
8835
Joined
6/7/2010
Location
Mc Kinney, TX US
5/19/2026 1:23pm
I wanna know where all the people are who shit on Prado saying it was him and not the bike. They'll be eating more crow this...

I wanna know where all the people are who shit on Prado saying it was him and not the bike. They'll be eating more crow this summer I'm sure. 

He could have been riding a donkey and it doesn't excuse his behavior last year

12
4
KurtJ99
Posts
2422
Joined
2/6/2017
Location
CA US
5/19/2026 1:29pm
PNWMXer wrote:
Some folks need to realize that Kawasaki can run a shitty operation AND Chase can be a high-maintenance head case…doesn’t need to be one or the...

Some folks need to realize that Kawasaki can run a shitty operation AND Chase can be a high-maintenance head case…doesn’t need to be one or the other…

a high-maintenance head case

with a recent supercross and outdoor motocross title, a legendary last-to-first performance at Hangtown.

I don't think it's like he's lost his will to win, in his interviews he clearly says he is adapting to the bike and doing the best he can. Is that a head case?

DonM
Posts
8608
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
Fantasy
5/19/2026 4:16pm
Rickyisms wrote:
Does anyone remember when it seemed like the US vs Euro guys debate was on fire, and Tomac had just dominated the 2018 outdoor series, and...

Does anyone remember when it seemed like the US vs Euro guys debate was on fire, and Tomac had just dominated the 2018 outdoor series, and then Kawasaki thought “You know what? Let’s put him on this all new from the ground up bike MxDN with little to no testing”.


Am I remembering that right?

Oh you mean the time that Bruce and Dan chose the MXDN as testing and refused to use the same radio comms as the rest of the team? 

5
zacksavchuk
Posts
277
Joined
11/18/2016
Location
New Castle, PA US
5/19/2026 4:21pm
Motofinne wrote:
Probably the same kinds of issues that the old Factory Yamaha team had before star. Very rigid in their way of working for a very long...

Probably the same kinds of issues that the old Factory Yamaha team had before star. Very rigid in their way of working for a very long time, and now they seem to look more outside the box but that isn't easy either when they have been living in a rigid box for a decade or more. 

It seems like they're lost and lack the capability to make true progress with the whole package. We've heard for over a year that "they are doing everything they can" for the riders, well they are obviously not succeeding with that. 

The "quick-fix" is to outsource the program to a private entity like Yamaha did with Star. The issue is that there aren't many Star racing's out there available.

I called into moto:60 one day and said literally this exact thing. I am with you 1000%.

1
joshd
Posts
724
Joined
3/17/2016
Location
Lucedale, MS US
5/19/2026 4:21pm
I wanna know where all the people are who shit on Prado saying it was him and not the bike. They'll be eating more crow this...

I wanna know where all the people are who shit on Prado saying it was him and not the bike. They'll be eating more crow this summer I'm sure. 

DonM wrote:

Yeah but was it the bike that quit or him…

Would you rather him push and be in the hospital?

2
2
5/19/2026 4:24pm

What was in Davi's locker?

1
DonM
Posts
8608
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
Fantasy
5/19/2026 4:27pm
I wanna know where all the people are who shit on Prado saying it was him and not the bike. They'll be eating more crow this...

I wanna know where all the people are who shit on Prado saying it was him and not the bike. They'll be eating more crow this summer I'm sure. 

DonM wrote:

Yeah but was it the bike that quit or him…

joshd wrote:

Would you rather him push and be in the hospital?

Fortunately he was able to keep himself from getting hurt from the roost by riding around with one hand to block it….

6
1
30minmotos
Posts
949
Joined
8/7/2025
Location
Rising Sun , MD US
5/19/2026 4:27pm Edited Date/Time 5/19/2026 4:32pm

What was in Davi's locker?

A slacker sag scale. Davi was setting the sag behind their backs.   Team kawi said adjusting sag was black magic and the DEVIL.

11
1
Trickamoto
Posts
649
Joined
2/6/2018
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
5/19/2026 4:42pm
VHM wrote:
Prado and Chase have both mentioned not being comfortable on the bike.

Prado and Chase have both mentioned not being comfortable on the bike.

114341

"Comfortable"...the most overused and gross term in mx these days! Chase has lived on that word on his last 3 bikes. STFU.

5
M1000
Posts
591
Joined
10/21/2020
Location
CA
5/19/2026 7:28pm
VHM wrote:
Prado and Chase have both mentioned not being comfortable on the bike.

Prado and Chase have both mentioned not being comfortable on the bike.

114341
Trickamoto wrote:

"Comfortable"...the most overused and gross term in mx these days! Chase has lived on that word on his last 3 bikes. STFU.

Maybe he needs a leather padded seat. 

1
Motofinne
Posts
11445
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
FI
5/19/2026 9:43pm
dingaling wrote:
Is it really the Kawi Team? I think Jorge and Chase are outliers and very unfortunate timing for Kawi. Jorge had never raced a Jap bike...

Is it really the Kawi Team? I think Jorge and Chase are outliers and very unfortunate timing for Kawi. Jorge had never raced a Jap bike previously. Chase is very well known to be extremely picky and wants a perfect setup. Honda, KTM, now Kawi? There's a pattern. 

Looking back it's no surprise these two had struggles. It was probably even discussed at length in here for both Jorge and Chase before they started.

Now if a 3rd elite rider in a row has the same problems id say yeah it's a very good chance it's the team haha

Motofinne wrote:
Is Eli Tomac elite enough?

Is Eli Tomac elite enough?

image 3022

dingaling wrote:
I know Tomac left not completely happy but man he did pretty damn good at Kawi. I'll admit his starts weren't great though.Look I don't think...

I know Tomac left not completely happy but man he did pretty damn good at Kawi. I'll admit his starts weren't great though.

Look I don't think Kawi are completely innocent with Jorge and Chase but I don't think it's all their fault. Are they part of the problem? Yes. Was Jorge and now Chase part of the problem? Yes. 

 

Dude, it's Eli freaking Tomac. One of the greatest ever to swing his leg over a bike, of course he did good at Kawi. It doesn't mean that he could've done even better if that Kawasaki team would've been more willing to go with riders preferences and ideas.

1

Post a reply to: What is wrong with the Kawi?

The Latest