How will the Ducati 450-only strategy play out vs the Triumph 250-only strategy? Racing wise and business wise

Ducati is a premium brand (more so than even the venerable Triumph, I'd argue,) and the 450 market in America is much larger than the one for 250s. It makes sense for them to go straight to the top, the same as they would in MotoGP or any other racing endeavor. I feel like they'll do better from a sales-generating standpoint than by fielding a 250-only team. Will the results look as good on paper? We'll have to see.

This is a great topic, I think about it almost daily lol

It takes balls to come into an already crowded market. My gut tells me Triumph will fair better in the long run, especially if they stay close to off-road racing (thinking GNCC, enduro, hare scambles etc)

These ventures must be costing an absolute fortune and I wonder where the money is coming from, and how long it will last if they don't see a worthy return in 'x' years of time.

I see Ducati as a massive gamble. 

Side note, props to the Troy Lee Designs Team for smashing it out of the park (as always). I wish them success.

The YZ250F has been the top selling motocross model for a number of years.

Money is pretty much the only reason not to start with a 450 program, have to pay riders more, have a longer more expensive schedule. Ducati has plenty of money to spend on racing. 

Regarding Triumph they dont appear to be making any sort of real push into GNCC for some reason. 

I have a feeling their target demographic is the Vet rider with money to blow.

Hey! Wait one damn minute, what do you mean,”Money to Blow”?!

🤣

450 class is where the big sponsor money is, and just look at some of the sponsors they pulled in:  Red Bull, Paramount, DHL, PPG, and you know they have Audi money sitting there too, not to mention pulling the Factory Connection people together.  Ducati mean business, they intend to make their presence known.  

Ducati does not make any bikes that would be considered "starter" or beginner level for the last few decades, at least since VW ownership. Sure, a handful of smaller Monsters over the years, but that is the exception over the norm. Everything they make is the top of the line, what a rider of more generic machines would consider aspirational in the "class" each bike resides in.

Will be the same thing with dirt bikes. Get the 450s out there, people used to the price tag (especially once you add on the dealer available accessories), and the quailty no matter if it is actual or just perceived. Once they get that done, then add in the 250 which will be at that much higher premium price point than your average Japanese 250. You won't see many, if any, kids switching from YZ250Fs to Desmo 250s, but some guys in the Vet class will. And a fair number of people that already have the 450 will buy the 250, just because "Ducati."

There will also be a good number of sales to just Ducatistas so they have a Desmo 450 to sit on the stand all pretty next to their Panigale.

At least unlike Harley entering a completely new market to them with the LiveWire, Ducati is entering a market where customers with disposable income have already shown they are willing to part $$ for premium models in CRF450WEs, KX450SRs, and KTM groups FEs. With KTM shooting themselves in the foot, Ducati has probably made the right decision at the right time. A slight vacuum at the top they can take advantage of.

Both have the problem that they've no off-road dealership network. Triumph dealerships in Europe got the promise to gain sales, but instead they are confronted with bikes who have problems and the dealerships are eating the shit for it.

Also I'm not sure if the real ducati dealers are keen on welcoming MX interested people, coming in the showroom, dressed in old and dirty ONE sweatshirt and ripped jeans and old air Jordan's. But we will see.

Wouldn’t a Desmo 350 really make sense? Desmo drivetrain revs and enough power for the vet riders that would seem to me to fit their demographic. 

The only reason Ducati and Triumph got into MX because they were fooled, like everyone was, into thinking KTM was making a fortune.  Well, as it turned out, KTM was SPENDING a fortune. Not making it.  ducati and triumph probably are wondering the same thing the OP asks.  Was this the right decision??  

KTM were selling a lot of bikes but wasting money on some questionable decisions, spreading themselves a bit thin and over-expansion. If Triumph and Ducati pick up a lot of sales from KTMs' problems and not make the same mistakes, it could be good for them long-term. I hope so; it's great seeing some new blood in the sport.

I think we are missing the mission here. Just like with Harley, Triumph and Ducati are seeing core street bike model sales fall as the baby boomer demographic ages. These adventures that give us neat new models to drool over are just advertising tools to fuel future sales of their core street bikes. 

"Triumph 250 only"

Forkner is lining up at A1 on a 450

Ducati is running a 250 at mxgp this season. The 250 is a money pit.I think weregonna be surprised how well they do in the 450s

Bad timing to enter an oversaturated market in an economic downturn.  The COVID PPP party of bloated premiums and everything selling at outrageous prices is over.  

Well I think in the sense of OP, he was saying that Triumph started as a 250 only race team for their debut. They have been on a positive growth, hence they were able to field some 450 riders and have a bike supposedly developed enough.

First 5 words of his opening statement... "A couple of years ago"

Yes, they are lining up 450's this year (Forkner and Smith)

Exactly right, Ducati management has made it very clear that their main objective in getting into dirt bikes is to expend their demographic and attract younger riders, hoping to turn them into lifelong Ducatista that will eventually buy much more expensive street bikes.

The loaded vet rider buying the entire parts catalog is an unintended but welcome side effect, not the strategic target.

This.

The racing entity will likely lose money, and they know that. However, if they sell a few 2030 or 2035 Panigales because of it, they've succeeded. Also, the guy who will buy a Ducati 450 may not be riding in the dirt right now. They will probably attract some new buyers to the sport. 

The 350 crowd are almost as annoying as the Electric wierdos.

They’re both gonna get smoked, so I don’t expect it to make much difference.  Downvote all you want.  We can revisit this on Sunday morning.

Plus, last I knew Triumph is planning to field a 250 and 450 team this year.

The only way KTM could beat the Japs was to outspend them.  Theres no long term future in that.  
Thats where their debt came from.  Tons and tons of different models.  Super cool to a consumer.  But horrible business plan for a distributor or dealer.  And changes every year.  Super cool to a rider.  Costs tons of R&D.  They ran so many race teams.  Badass!  But costs too much.  Wayyy too much.  

First off, everyone seems to forget about the red bull part of red bull KTM. They pay the bills and KTM gets to train their engineers and develop them under the stress of racing.

And least ye forget, The Ducati demosedici MXGP bike is the most technically advanced motorcycle ever created. It's 990 cc so I will suggest that a 250 will have an advantage over the rest of the crowd due to it's lower friction desmo engine, unless Honda decides to come out with pneumatic valves which I would think is over the top for a production bike.

and replying to motoarmageddin, The only reason Honda beat MV is because they out spent them.Both yours and mine statements are absurd. It does not matter what you spend, it matters what your results are, Honda have spent as much as anyone in the past 5 years of motoGP and thier results are disappointing. 

Btw, Paolo Ciabatti even said it on record but Ducati has a crazy loyal fan base (and these people have money). Some just collect the bikes and buy everything they release. So a large % of the Desmo 450 sales will make up from Ducati fans that might not even spin a lap on the bike. Or maybe get into the MX/enduro world because of the purchase.

Triumph has nothing like that, they are truly starting off from zero.

Advantage Ducati.

I don't think either of Ducati's SX riders are capable of winning a race this year against the likes of Hunter, Eli, Coop, and Sexton. If they did it would be an anomaly. In that regard, I consider the Ducati strategy flawed. That said, partnering with TLD gets a big thumbs up. The bikes look pretty sick too. So they might not need race wins to successfully market and develop their products. So maybe lining up in the premier class straight away is a good thing. 🤷‍♂️

Cost of lining up in 250 or 450 is not that different. Global exposure competing in the top class is not even comparable and that's why they're racing. So 450 makes perfect sense.

Top10 on a 450 gets much more eyeballs on your bike than top6 on a 250. It's all about that money to eyeball ratio.

Lol, this is funny, and I'm one of the 350 crowd! Sorry for annoying you 🤣

350's are so sick! 

I just watched the "Making of the Team" video they posted on Youtube.

I'm so excited to see how the bike performs, I have really high hopes for the team and the bikes.