Vialle Chooses to sit out 2nd moto

8/26/2025 12:15am

Pretty typical of the French to wave the white flag, I’m just saying…

Herr Lich wrote:
This view is pretty fucked. The French lost 125,000 men killed during the early stages of the German invasion of France in WW2. The reason for...

This view is pretty fucked. The French lost 125,000 men killed during the early stages of the German invasion of France in WW2. The reason for France's surrender was not to do with the cowardice of the troops but the terrible strategy and organisation of the army leadership. 

Man good point imagine if the US would have surrendered after 125k casualties.  

Good point, the US surrendered Vietnam after 58,281 casualties.

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VHM
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8/26/2025 2:11am
Gravel wrote:
Seriously…When did KTM shocks start breaking? Sounds like a problem with internals, pretty scary to start a race thinking the suspension is going to fail..KTM has...

Seriously…

When did KTM shocks start breaking? Sounds like a problem with internals, pretty scary to start a race thinking the suspension is going to fail..

KTM has a big chunk of the responsibility here if this is a long term, repetitive problem. 

MPJC wrote:
I was wondering the same thing. These KTM bikes have been very successful for years. Dungey, Anderson, Sexton, RJ, and Webb won titles without any complaints...

I was wondering the same thing. These KTM bikes have been very successful for years. Dungey, Anderson, Sexton, RJ, and Webb won titles without any complaints about the shock that I can recall (I recall Webb wanting KYB forks but I don’t remember the shock being an issue). Vialle just won a supercross title on the bike so the shock had to have been rideable to do that. It’s not like we’re talking about new technology. This just doesn’t make sense. What did they do that shocks are now unreliable to the point of being dangerous? They seriously can’t find a reliable shock to put on the bike? This doesn’t make any sense to me (which I’ll grant, doesn’t mean much).  

Sexton didn't complain, but I doubt he rode with a duct for no reason 😅

PitBitsGlendale-09.jpg?VersionId=cgKkbn4RVE0wj6m
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8/26/2025 3:46am

I wonder if Budgets were tight with the KTM financial saga going on? Stuck with what they had…

8/26/2025 4:08am
Herr Lich wrote:
This view is pretty fucked. The French lost 125,000 men killed during the early stages of the German invasion of France in WW2. The reason for...

This view is pretty fucked. The French lost 125,000 men killed during the early stages of the German invasion of France in WW2. The reason for France's surrender was not to do with the cowardice of the troops but the terrible strategy and organisation of the army leadership. 

Man good point imagine if the US would have surrendered after 125k casualties.  

JnDubZ wrote:
Funny the Americans bag out the French. You realise you were losing the civil war until France put every bit of money they had to stop...

Funny the Americans bag out the French. You realise you were losing the civil war until France put every bit of money they had to stop the British from taking over America. Maybe show some respect to them. 

However, Herr Lich. The French have literally waved the white flag every time and as soon as possible. 

1) The Revolutionary War

2) The only time they they quickly waved the white flag in modern history is WW2. The last time would be 1870

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Nystrom
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8/26/2025 4:11am

Anyone else think this thread took a weird turn?

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8/26/2025 4:12am
Herr Lich wrote:
This view is pretty fucked. The French lost 125,000 men killed during the early stages of the German invasion of France in WW2. The reason for...

This view is pretty fucked. The French lost 125,000 men killed during the early stages of the German invasion of France in WW2. The reason for France's surrender was not to do with the cowardice of the troops but the terrible strategy and organisation of the army leadership. 

Man good point imagine if the US would have surrendered after 125k casualties.  

Good point, the US surrendered Vietnam after 58,281 casualties.

Vietnam and Afghanistan were a shit show. Both of them eerily similar. The US' only military defeats. 

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Johnny Ringo
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8/26/2025 4:36am
Herr Lich wrote:
This view is pretty fucked. The French lost 125,000 men killed during the early stages of the German invasion of France in WW2. The reason for...

This view is pretty fucked. The French lost 125,000 men killed during the early stages of the German invasion of France in WW2. The reason for France's surrender was not to do with the cowardice of the troops but the terrible strategy and organisation of the army leadership. 

Man good point imagine if the US would have surrendered after 125k casualties.  

Good point, the US surrendered Vietnam after 58,281 casualties.

We did not surrender, we left.

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CPR
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8/26/2025 4:59am

Man good point imagine if the US would have surrendered after 125k casualties.  

Good point, the US surrendered Vietnam after 58,281 casualties.

Vietnam and Afghanistan were a shit show. Both of them eerily similar. The US' only military defeats. 

Korea, Iraq……regardless, belongs in non-moto.

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8/26/2025 5:20am

Man good point imagine if the US would have surrendered after 125k casualties.  

Good point, the US surrendered Vietnam after 58,281 casualties.

We did not surrender, we left.

Don't you mean retreated?

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Johnny Ringo
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8/26/2025 5:44am

Good point, the US surrendered Vietnam after 58,281 casualties.

We did not surrender, we left.

Don't you mean retreated?

The term is withdrawal, thank you

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Gravel
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8/26/2025 5:55am
Nystrom wrote:

Anyone else think this thread took a weird turn?

Several.. 

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GrapeApe
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8/26/2025 6:02am
Nystrom wrote:

Anyone else think this thread took a weird turn?

Just enjoy the history lesson(s). I'm hoping to learn more about France's involvement in the US civil war.

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JN
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8/26/2025 6:06am
Nystrom wrote:

Anyone else think this thread took a weird turn?

Yes, I just scroll past the politics but having to scroll longer each page.

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spokeman
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8/26/2025 6:14am
Gravel wrote:
Seriously…When did KTM shocks start breaking? Sounds like a problem with internals, pretty scary to start a race thinking the suspension is going to fail..KTM has...

Seriously…

When did KTM shocks start breaking? Sounds like a problem with internals, pretty scary to start a race thinking the suspension is going to fail..

KTM has a big chunk of the responsibility here if this is a long term, repetitive problem. 

MPJC wrote:
I was wondering the same thing. These KTM bikes have been very successful for years. Dungey, Anderson, Sexton, RJ, and Webb won titles without any complaints...

I was wondering the same thing. These KTM bikes have been very successful for years. Dungey, Anderson, Sexton, RJ, and Webb won titles without any complaints about the shock that I can recall (I recall Webb wanting KYB forks but I don’t remember the shock being an issue). Vialle just won a supercross title on the bike so the shock had to have been rideable to do that. It’s not like we’re talking about new technology. This just doesn’t make sense. What did they do that shocks are now unreliable to the point of being dangerous? They seriously can’t find a reliable shock to put on the bike? This doesn’t make any sense to me (which I’ll grant, doesn’t mean much).  

VHM wrote:
Sexton didn't complain, but I doubt he rode with a duct for no reason 😅

Sexton didn't complain, but I doubt he rode with a duct for no reason 😅

PitBitsGlendale-09.jpg?VersionId=cgKkbn4RVE0wj6m

MY question with this setup is, the air has gone through the radiator and would  not necessarily be cooler air. But i guess its cooler than a hot shock?

PitBitsGlendale-09.jpg?VersionId=cgKkbn4RVE0wj6m

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devotid
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8/26/2025 6:36am
spokeman wrote:
MY question with this setup is, the air has gone through the radiator and would  not necessarily be cooler air. But i guess its cooler than...

MY question with this setup is, the air has gone through the radiator and would  not necessarily be cooler air. But i guess its cooler than a hot shock?

PitBitsGlendale-09.jpg?VersionId=cgKkbn4RVE0wj6m

Yeah... This is a terrible design if they are looking to cool the shock. This would technically add heat to it. That radiator "air" is prob 150-180 degrees.

They have a Gazzillion acre 40 Million dollar race shop full of smart people and they bring shocks that are blowing up already three times? For gods sake just put the stock one on as it has proven to work for many customers in some prob pretty gnarly situations.

This is a self inflicted wound.

 

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truck
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8/26/2025 7:18am
spokeman wrote:
MY question with this setup is, the air has gone through the radiator and would  not necessarily be cooler air. But i guess its cooler than...

MY question with this setup is, the air has gone through the radiator and would  not necessarily be cooler air. But i guess its cooler than a hot shock?

PitBitsGlendale-09.jpg?VersionId=cgKkbn4RVE0wj6m

devotid wrote:
Yeah... This is a terrible design if they are looking to cool the shock. This would technically add heat to it. That radiator "air" is prob...

Yeah... This is a terrible design if they are looking to cool the shock. This would technically add heat to it. That radiator "air" is prob 150-180 degrees.

They have a Gazzillion acre 40 Million dollar race shop full of smart people and they bring shocks that are blowing up already three times? For gods sake just put the stock one on as it has proven to work for many customers in some prob pretty gnarly situations.

This is a self inflicted wound.

 

This is the part I don't get either. This style of shock has been around forever. I just can't fathom how it hasn't been more or less perfected by now? At least to the point where there's a few options that you know may not be the exact feel you want but they've been so refined that they are at least predictable, reliable, and without significant issues? How does every team not have some baseline like that that they can fall back to on something as classic as a shock when they're having issues like this? 

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Gravel
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8/26/2025 7:49am
truck wrote:
This is the part I don't get either. This style of shock has been around forever. I just can't fathom how it hasn't been more or...

This is the part I don't get either. This style of shock has been around forever. I just can't fathom how it hasn't been more or less perfected by now? At least to the point where there's a few options that you know may not be the exact feel you want but they've been so refined that they are at least predictable, reliable, and without significant issues? How does every team not have some baseline like that that they can fall back to on something as classic as a shock when they're having issues like this? 

Unless they have new technology that we mortals can’t afford yet.. 

whatever it is, it was probably invented by the French, because it keeps giving up..

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devotid
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8/26/2025 8:31am

I mean... What would they be doing to a shock to kill its reliability? New coatings? Internal machining? Shaft geometry changes? Stupid high pressures or progressive linkages???

I'm genuinely curious. Anyone got any idears?

MPJC
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8/26/2025 8:39am
devotid wrote:
I mean... What would they be doing to a shock to kill its reliability? New coatings? Internal machining? Shaft geometry changes? Stupid high pressures or progressive...

I mean... What would they be doing to a shock to kill its reliability? New coatings? Internal machining? Shaft geometry changes? Stupid high pressures or progressive linkages???

I'm genuinely curious. Anyone got any idears?

Sounds like maybe heat related fade? But that's a problem that I remember from the early 80s - one that I thought had long ago been resolved. 

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PRM31
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8/26/2025 8:41am

In the history of MX I don't recall shocks being a major issue. The odd failure, sure (see Kenny), but not a repeated issue. Are they just now collecting data they never have before and are seeing it, or is there a major issue where the shock is failing?

Wonder what they are doing differently now? 

burn1986
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8/26/2025 8:44am

I’d have to look back, but why did Cooper Webb sit out?

aees
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8/26/2025 9:37am Edited Date/Time 8/26/2025 9:37am
spokeman wrote:
MY question with this setup is, the air has gone through the radiator and would  not necessarily be cooler air. But i guess its cooler than...

MY question with this setup is, the air has gone through the radiator and would  not necessarily be cooler air. But i guess its cooler than a hot shock?

PitBitsGlendale-09.jpg?VersionId=cgKkbn4RVE0wj6m

devotid wrote:
Yeah... This is a terrible design if they are looking to cool the shock. This would technically add heat to it. That radiator "air" is prob...

Yeah... This is a terrible design if they are looking to cool the shock. This would technically add heat to it. That radiator "air" is prob 150-180 degrees.

They have a Gazzillion acre 40 Million dollar race shop full of smart people and they bring shocks that are blowing up already three times? For gods sake just put the stock one on as it has proven to work for many customers in some prob pretty gnarly situations.

This is a self inflicted wound.

 

But is the air lead to the shock or passed it, meaning the hot air from passing cooler passes the shock instead of hitting it?

Shocks can get around 100-120 Celsius, that is above boiling point of water. I doubt the air coming through is that hot. 

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alphado
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8/26/2025 10:16am

Quinn Amyott blew out a shock or 2 in Canada this year.

mxaniac
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8/26/2025 11:01am Edited Date/Time 8/26/2025 11:02am

I don't know how long that shock has been around, but in the 250 class the production rule mandates it's use. They've been making a lot of frame changes over the last several years. My guess it that when the shock is dialed in for the best performance, it's really close to cavitation. Once it gets hot, it cavitates.

As I type this it occurs to me that I read somewhere Tom is still on an older frame which doesn't support my postulate very well. I'd also expect nitrogen pressure to be able to prevent the cavitation, unless pressure that high causes ride issues or makes the shock do a Roczen impersonation and explode.

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Press516
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8/26/2025 11:23am

I was not happy with Vialle when I heard this originally...  I really like the kid.  But with a little more context now, I can see how we got where we are.  There have been numerous comments about the WP shocks over the last year and now this with Tom.

Of all things, I think this is a bad look for WP.  Combined with Chase's need to get KYB internals, etc.  They got some serious work to do this offseason...

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aees
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8/26/2025 12:58pm
mxaniac wrote:
I don't know how long that shock has been around, but in the 250 class the production rule mandates it's use. They've been making a lot...

I don't know how long that shock has been around, but in the 250 class the production rule mandates it's use. They've been making a lot of frame changes over the last several years. My guess it that when the shock is dialed in for the best performance, it's really close to cavitation. Once it gets hot, it cavitates.

As I type this it occurs to me that I read somewhere Tom is still on an older frame which doesn't support my postulate very well. I'd also expect nitrogen pressure to be able to prevent the cavitation, unless pressure that high causes ride issues or makes the shock do a Roczen impersonation and explode.

They have been able to go around the production rule before with the 52mm forks. WP offers it to others but must sign service agreement and buy minimum 3. No one uses that, but remember a wealthy privater exercised it if I remember correctly?

8/26/2025 1:02pm
VHM wrote:
Sexton didn't complain, but I doubt he rode with a duct for no reason 😅

Sexton didn't complain, but I doubt he rode with a duct for no reason 😅

PitBitsGlendale-09.jpg?VersionId=cgKkbn4RVE0wj6m

My exact post from page 3...

They've had rear shock issues ever since Sexton had them build Temu KYB suspension from WP. They've been trying to cool down the rear shock since last summer. Remember the weird 3d printed rear shock cooling duct they used a few times on Sexton's bike?

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