Honda?

7/17/2025 3:04am

 

I have a Kwaka.  It go fast in the powerbands.

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7/17/2025 3:26am

1896 has exceptional talent.  Maybe Honda Japan R&D is a bit more emotionally and financially invested?  The other riders?  Clearly obvious they’re not willing to make the sacrifices during the week and take the risks on Saturday to compete for the top step of the podium.  Where’s the rage?  Where’s the anger?  Where’s the “I’d rather watch my son duel leukemia for 10 years” than lose?  These riders are just accepting mediocrity!

Listen to this clip and whenever you hear Perdue, insert 1896.  Whenever you hear a person’s name, insert 3rd through 10th place in 450 point standings.


https://youtu.be/Chdg7wEGfYw?si=URKFWVV4pq466lwv

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Goon645
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7/17/2025 4:03am

Cant be bothered typing this again

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decano51
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7/17/2025 4:16am

Using a reverse hemispheric gyroscopic balance module (made from kangaroo sinew), the bike manipulates time perception, making the rest of the field look slower while the Lawrence brothers flows through corners like they warping spacetime.


 

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The Shop

aees
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7/17/2025 4:23am
Snapper wrote:
I think with the Lawrence's, they don't let the bike performance get in their head if it's not ideal. They just ride around any potential issues. Bike's...

I think with the Lawrence's, they don't let the bike performance get in their head if it's not ideal. They just ride around any potential issues. 

Bike's are never perfect on every part of the race track, whereas it seems a lot of racers nowadays have one slide through a corner or a kick off a braking bump and immediately want to change the bike. 

Jett washed out at Millville, but I bet he didn't make any changes to his bike this week. Racers crash, it happens. At the top level, IMO, it's the mindset that makes the difference. If you race thinking your bike needs work, you're never going to win.

You didn't listen to the interviews? He basically took a second because he changed the shock settings for moto 1 and bike was not good. He gave Hunter credits but you could hear he fucked up the setup and he couldn't push.

Went back for second moto and all was good again. Have he not fiddled with the setup for moto 1 there is no way Hunter wins.

No one is immune to wrong bike setup.

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Chris_Buehler
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7/17/2025 4:24am
milamcreek wrote:
This is going to start something, but with the recent finishes from Hunter I'm calling BS. Honda is up to something and should be looked at. Reason: Jett...

This is going to start something, but with the recent finishes from Hunter I'm calling BS. 

Honda is up to something and should be looked at. 

Reason: Jett smoking fast, Hunter fast. But for them to leave the field behind by over a minute in four rounds bullshit. No one does that. Eli 2015 over the field but golden rod was closing the gap before Eli torpedoed in the ground. They're increasing weekly, no way Hunter is pulling this off without help. I cannot believe red flags aren't going up everywhere in the paddock. 

All I'm saying is something is fishy and it's beginning to stink 

Dumbest shit I have read on here all year and that's a tough list.  What would they be cheating with??  It's 80-90% rider and 450's are...

Dumbest shit I have read on here all year and that's a tough list.  What would they be cheating with??  It's 80-90% rider and 450's are already basically detuned from what they are capable of.  

This! To not single out the OP, I'm seeing more of this sentiment in other places like Facebook. "Honda is cheating!" Ok, how? They running big bores? Because we all know the more horsepower the better right? Aware us to how they could cheat. 

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Snapper
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7/17/2025 4:33am
Snapper wrote:
I think with the Lawrence's, they don't let the bike performance get in their head if it's not ideal. They just ride around any potential issues. Bike's...

I think with the Lawrence's, they don't let the bike performance get in their head if it's not ideal. They just ride around any potential issues. 

Bike's are never perfect on every part of the race track, whereas it seems a lot of racers nowadays have one slide through a corner or a kick off a braking bump and immediately want to change the bike. 

Jett washed out at Millville, but I bet he didn't make any changes to his bike this week. Racers crash, it happens. At the top level, IMO, it's the mindset that makes the difference. If you race thinking your bike needs work, you're never going to win.

aees wrote:
You didn't listen to the interviews? He basically took a second because he changed the shock settings for moto 1 and bike was not good. He...

You didn't listen to the interviews? He basically took a second because he changed the shock settings for moto 1 and bike was not good. He gave Hunter credits but you could hear he fucked up the setup and he couldn't push.

Went back for second moto and all was good again. Have he not fiddled with the setup for moto 1 there is no way Hunter wins.

No one is immune to wrong bike setup.

Read what I wrote again 👍

aees
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7/17/2025 4:54am
Snapper wrote:
I think with the Lawrence's, they don't let the bike performance get in their head if it's not ideal. They just ride around any potential issues. Bike's...

I think with the Lawrence's, they don't let the bike performance get in their head if it's not ideal. They just ride around any potential issues. 

Bike's are never perfect on every part of the race track, whereas it seems a lot of racers nowadays have one slide through a corner or a kick off a braking bump and immediately want to change the bike. 

Jett washed out at Millville, but I bet he didn't make any changes to his bike this week. Racers crash, it happens. At the top level, IMO, it's the mindset that makes the difference. If you race thinking your bike needs work, you're never going to win.

aees wrote:
You didn't listen to the interviews? He basically took a second because he changed the shock settings for moto 1 and bike was not good. He...

You didn't listen to the interviews? He basically took a second because he changed the shock settings for moto 1 and bike was not good. He gave Hunter credits but you could hear he fucked up the setup and he couldn't push.

Went back for second moto and all was good again. Have he not fiddled with the setup for moto 1 there is no way Hunter wins.

No one is immune to wrong bike setup.

Snapper wrote:

Read what I wrote again 👍

I have 👍 He did make bike changes. And if he wasn't that sensitive he would have just kept the bike as is right? He was just 8 sec behind Hunter and good for a second in that race.

My point is, he as anyone depend on hitting the window and its a small window or you dont end up outside it between practise and moto 1. Knowing how good the bike is they dont normally swing at bike setup but instead tune. And they ended up with something he couldn't win on that moto. 

You have to read a bit into it but how disappointed he was with the setup is pretty clear at least for me it was the one thing that kept him back. JT also said he hasn't seen Jett before being as active dibriefing/not happy talking to the mechanics directly after race one.

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El Capitan
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7/17/2025 5:16am

So, are you saying there is cheating going on in professional motocross?

I am SHOCKED——simply shocked! 

ML, in early and running tail cover with the tinfoil hat slam. This topic is verboten on the VIitals! 

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JN
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7/17/2025 5:38am
SoCalMX70 wrote:

People really have gotten stupider.

There was a documentary about this 20 years ago...

The only comedy that turned into a documentary.

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7/17/2025 5:45am
SoCalMX70 wrote:

People really have gotten stupider.

There was a documentary about this 20 years ago...

JN wrote:

The only comedy that turned into a documentary.

Did you not watch the Simpsons?

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JN
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7/17/2025 5:51am

There was a documentary about this 20 years ago...

JN wrote:

The only comedy that turned into a documentary.

Did you not watch the Simpsons?

Not remotely the same.

H4L
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7/17/2025 6:14am Edited Date/Time 7/17/2025 6:26am
milamcreek wrote:
This is going to start something, but with the recent finishes from Hunter I'm calling BS. Honda is up to something and should be looked at. Reason: Jett...

This is going to start something, but with the recent finishes from Hunter I'm calling BS. 

Honda is up to something and should be looked at. 

Reason: Jett smoking fast, Hunter fast. But for them to leave the field behind by over a minute in four rounds bullshit. No one does that. Eli 2015 over the field but golden rod was closing the gap before Eli torpedoed in the ground. They're increasing weekly, no way Hunter is pulling this off without help. I cannot believe red flags aren't going up everywhere in the paddock. 

All I'm saying is something is fishy and it's beginning to stink 

Dumbest shit I have read on here all year and that's a tough list.  What would they be cheating with??  It's 80-90% rider and 450's are...

Dumbest shit I have read on here all year and that's a tough list.  What would they be cheating with??  It's 80-90% rider and 450's are already basically detuned from what they are capable of.  

I have to agree. I’ve read some pretty idiotic threads on here through the years, but this one is at the top of the list. 

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markus8v_s3
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7/17/2025 7:01am

Wildest takes I’ve read this year…


1) Honda paid officials at High Point to have the race called once Jett was in position to take the overall

2) Honda paid officials at Spring Creek to not penalize Jo for jumping on the Red Cross flag 

Anddddd..

3) This post 

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zippytech
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7/17/2025 7:34am

If I could just get on one of the Honda's I could win this thing. I would be so much faster than everyone else in the world. If I just one of them bikes.

Racerman967
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7/17/2025 8:45am

1. Lawrence Brother are the top and likely second or third best rider in the class.

2. Honda has more money to spend than every other team.

3. go back to the 80's and see the same thing from this team

4. In almost any motorsport when Honda gets really serious they do not lose much

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7/17/2025 9:24am
milamcreek wrote:
This is going to start something, but with the recent finishes from Hunter I'm calling BS. Honda is up to something and should be looked at. Reason: Jett...

This is going to start something, but with the recent finishes from Hunter I'm calling BS. 

Honda is up to something and should be looked at. 

Reason: Jett smoking fast, Hunter fast. But for them to leave the field behind by over a minute in four rounds bullshit. No one does that. Eli 2015 over the field but golden rod was closing the gap before Eli torpedoed in the ground. They're increasing weekly, no way Hunter is pulling this off without help. I cannot believe red flags aren't going up everywhere in the paddock. 

All I'm saying is something is fishy and it's beginning to stink 

Dumbest shit I have read on here all year and that's a tough list.  What would they be cheating with??  It's 80-90% rider and 450's are...

Dumbest shit I have read on here all year and that's a tough list.  What would they be cheating with??  It's 80-90% rider and 450's are already basically detuned from what they are capable of.  

This! To not single out the OP, I'm seeing more of this sentiment in other places like Facebook. "Honda is cheating!" Ok, how? They running big...

This! To not single out the OP, I'm seeing more of this sentiment in other places like Facebook. "Honda is cheating!" Ok, how? They running big bores? Because we all know the more horsepower the better right? Aware us to how they could cheat. 

Small electric motor in front hub? People were busted in road cycling for it. Examined bike with infrared camera and saw heat buildup in odd places.

I don't think Honda or any other teams are cheating, though. Back years ago when Sebastian Loeb was dominating the  FIA world rally championship they analyzed his driving style and determined he simply used his brakes less than anyone else and kept momentum up. Smooth equals fast and uses less mental and physical energy. 

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gt80rider
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7/17/2025 9:32am

To me it's not how fast they are going, its more so, how slow the field is.... 

like 3 rounds ago, maybe 4... i was on the back section of the track... an area with little tv coverage, few fans... i saw Prado come through maybe riding 50% through that area... I COULD HAVE RIDDEN faster.... but he wasn't the only one "taking the section off".... there were lots of doods at essentially a trail riding pace in that area.... Jett and Hunter were riding full race pace there... to me, that's the difference... most of these guys are hurt, tired, and aint getn paid any extra if they finish 4th, or 34th.... 

 

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LungButter
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7/17/2025 9:38am
El Capitan wrote:
So, are you saying there is cheating going on in professional motocross?I am SHOCKED——simply shocked! ML, in early and running tail cover with the tinfoil hat slam...

So, are you saying there is cheating going on in professional motocross?

I am SHOCKED——simply shocked! 

ML, in early and running tail cover with the tinfoil hat slam. This topic is verboten on the VIitals! 

Ok then....

Fill us in on some theories of how they could be cheating that would lead to them beating the field so badly.

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NickoBrap
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7/17/2025 9:43am
1000009041.jpg?VersionId=TKaFBKCrmOrlwxNwGtMPZ
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7/17/2025 9:50am
milamcreek wrote:
This is going to start something, but with the recent finishes from Hunter I'm calling BS. Honda is up to something and should be looked at. Reason: Jett...

This is going to start something, but with the recent finishes from Hunter I'm calling BS. 

Honda is up to something and should be looked at. 

Reason: Jett smoking fast, Hunter fast. But for them to leave the field behind by over a minute in four rounds bullshit. No one does that. Eli 2015 over the field but golden rod was closing the gap before Eli torpedoed in the ground. They're increasing weekly, no way Hunter is pulling this off without help. I cannot believe red flags aren't going up everywhere in the paddock. 

All I'm saying is something is fishy and it's beginning to stink 

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971_Fan
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7/17/2025 11:23am

I wouldn't go so far as to accuse any specific team of cheating, but at the top level of any sport cheating happens. If a team found a sneaky way to gain an advantage, they'd use it if they thought they had a good chance of getting away with it. That's not tin foil hat shit (interesting that was the first response), it's a fact borne out by the history of sports. 

Motocross is no exception and it is not the squeaky clean sport a lot of you want it to be. 

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FWYT
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7/17/2025 11:37am
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LungButter
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7/17/2025 12:32pm
971_Fan wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to accuse any specific team of cheating, but at the top level of any sport cheating happens. If a team...

I wouldn't go so far as to accuse any specific team of cheating, but at the top level of any sport cheating happens. If a team found a sneaky way to gain an advantage, they'd use it if they thought they had a good chance of getting away with it. That's not tin foil hat shit (interesting that was the first response), it's a fact borne out by the history of sports. 

Motocross is no exception and it is not the squeaky clean sport a lot of you want it to be. 

Ok then....that seems plausible for sure.

So fill us in on some theories of how they could be cheating that would lead to them beating the field so badly.

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zippytech
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7/17/2025 12:36pm

What does everyone think they can do to cheat? More power, more this , more that? You still have to ride the damn thing.

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HonTech23
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7/17/2025 12:50pm

Dudes just mad red is on top again like prime McGrath in the 90s

Every manufacturer has their periods of greatness, when they find riders that just jive with the machin  and can make it happen every weekend.

 

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NickoBrap
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7/17/2025 1:11pm
971_Fan wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to accuse any specific team of cheating, but at the top level of any sport cheating happens. If a team...

I wouldn't go so far as to accuse any specific team of cheating, but at the top level of any sport cheating happens. If a team found a sneaky way to gain an advantage, they'd use it if they thought they had a good chance of getting away with it. That's not tin foil hat shit (interesting that was the first response), it's a fact borne out by the history of sports. 

Motocross is no exception and it is not the squeaky clean sport a lot of you want it to be. 

LungButter wrote:
Ok then....that seems plausible for sure.So fill us in on some theories of how they could be cheating that would lead to them beating the field...

Ok then....that seems plausible for sure.

So fill us in on some theories of how they could be cheating that would lead to them beating the field so badly.

The technical side of motor racing is and always will be about trying to find a mechanical advantage. Whether that means bending the rules, outright cheating, or doing something the rules don't cover, that's just the name of the game. 

We happen to be fans of a sport where the machine doesn't play as large of a part. This isn't F1 or Moto GP. I'll bet you Jett and Hunter would be strong top 5 possible podium on showroom stock machines.

Could they be using some weird modern recovery techniques that really blur the line between what is PED and what isn't? Absolutely. The gypsy episode with doc G had some really interesting parts in that regard.

I don't believe that any of the major teams are cheating in a significant way, but I would be shocked if they weren't doing little things. That's just racing. At the end of the day there aren't an insane amount of rules governing what can and can't be done.

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LungButter
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7/17/2025 1:27pm
971_Fan wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to accuse any specific team of cheating, but at the top level of any sport cheating happens. If a team...

I wouldn't go so far as to accuse any specific team of cheating, but at the top level of any sport cheating happens. If a team found a sneaky way to gain an advantage, they'd use it if they thought they had a good chance of getting away with it. That's not tin foil hat shit (interesting that was the first response), it's a fact borne out by the history of sports. 

Motocross is no exception and it is not the squeaky clean sport a lot of you want it to be. 

LungButter wrote:
Ok then....that seems plausible for sure.So fill us in on some theories of how they could be cheating that would lead to them beating the field...

Ok then....that seems plausible for sure.

So fill us in on some theories of how they could be cheating that would lead to them beating the field so badly.

NickoBrap wrote:
The technical side of motor racing is and always will be about trying to find a mechanical advantage. Whether that means bending the rules, outright cheating...

The technical side of motor racing is and always will be about trying to find a mechanical advantage. Whether that means bending the rules, outright cheating, or doing something the rules don't cover, that's just the name of the game. 

We happen to be fans of a sport where the machine doesn't play as large of a part. This isn't F1 or Moto GP. I'll bet you Jett and Hunter would be strong top 5 possible podium on showroom stock machines.

Could they be using some weird modern recovery techniques that really blur the line between what is PED and what isn't? Absolutely. The gypsy episode with doc G had some really interesting parts in that regard.

I don't believe that any of the major teams are cheating in a significant way, but I would be shocked if they weren't doing little things. That's just racing. At the end of the day there aren't an insane amount of rules governing what can and can't be done.

I agree with what you're saying pretty much fully.

I'm sure every rider on every Factory 450 Team is pushing the envelope as far as they are comfortable within the rules and what their resources will allow.

However, I don't think there is just something that the Lawrences specifically are doing that is allowing them to decimate the field like the OP is alluding to.

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