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Have you ever seen a stock bike win races or championships? No? Oh ok. Are anyone of those guys candidates for winning races? Oh no.
Jett had to take a third because he set up his shock wrong. AP went to fifth for second moto because he changes his setup and it was wrong direction.
Please. Your logic is off the charts.
No it's what it is. That's the beauty of it
I am not claiming stock or slow bikes are winning championships or races
I am claiming that Savatgy's and Guillaod's stock or slow bikes are around where Prado is, which is also not winning.
All demonstrably true.
I understood it that both he and Anderson went down.
No one would be able to ride around something that isn't right. Chase had to get KYB suspension. Tomac falls back to 7-8 if his rear isn't setup correctly. Jett just took a third because shock setting was off. AP took a fifth with setup in wrong direction from first moto as he called it. Hunter went to being over a minute behind when they went to the new bike last year. These guys has been on those bikes for years.
This "just ride through it its easy" is as Phil said on Mondays show, "for people up in the stand who have no fucking idea what they talk about".
Chase never pulled off because of his WP suspension. Tomac finished 7-8, he didn't pull off. Jett took third, he didn't pull off. AP took fifth, he didn't pull off. Hunter finished his motos being over one minute behind.
If Prado doesn't like his bike that's fine and understandable but it's his job to figure it out, or not.
He's going to find something that may or may not even make a difference on the bike but it will make him feel better mentally and he will start approaching the top 5. That would be a great goal for this year. If he has the right mentality and works with the team I have no question he will be battling for podiums next year.
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Slow, or fast, is just one component.
He would probably do better on a stock bike. But he would never ever be able to win on it. So there is zero point in just trying to find something you can ride on, when your job is to win championships.
Maybe even better to pull out and focus on testing then to see a championship candidate ride around and accept 3-5 just because he can.
I think he made a mistake going to Kawi, he underestimated how good the KTM platform is and how much it takes to build a custom bike in a more rigid team environment. I think Chase will suffer to.
They where in championship runs. He is completely out of it. What's the point? You don't see chase on the track right now. Webb parted early. It's not like there is any prestige in staying if it ain't working.
And we don't know yet if he pulled off or not, do we.
I rather see him pull out and go work on the bike than to waste thursday-sunday trying to get a fifth on a bike they have work on. But kawi would never allow that.
And it's still early, all the other riders had several seasons on their bikes. I would not be surprised to see him make a jump coming weeks if they get things in the right direction.
This got me thinking of the Chicken podcast with Ping maybe last year. They talked about 1992 and how he hated the bike because it was slow. Jeff took a cylinder to someone and made something out of it and if I’m not mistaken Kawi wouldn’t let him run it .
I'm starting to think you might be doing a parody or sarcasm, in which case well done. You got me hook line and sinker.
There’s stories like that from every team. Darryn Durham brought suspension done by PR2 to put on his Star Yamaha and said that was the day he knew he wasn’t getting resigned. Pretty sure they didn’t even have PR2 logos or anything.
Tomac never raced this generation bike, so he has no idea if it’s slow.
Anderson and AC never complained about power, they complained about the rear shock.
Eli definitely didn’t leave because of the bike.
John Tomac 100% said they wanted to go in a direction with the bike, and kawi said no.
100% correct, but it wasn’t the motor.
KYB told them what they needed to do to make Tomac happy and make everything work better, they didn’t do it.
hamilton just cant adapt to the car because he's old and cant rewire his late braking style. leclerq is working him because hes a quicker more talented racer. its not the car
Either way, Tomac wasn't finishing behind privateers and pointing at the bike as the reason. Maybe Roczen, Dungey frustrated Eli at times, sure.
But Prado is behind Savatgy and Guillod and pointing at the bike.
There is more at play.
About 50% of all Prado’s issues disappear at Red Bud then, right?
He’s got quite a few motos and practice sessions on that track…. And he has beaten many of the best there before.
Do we open a new can of worms???
Thanks
17:20 into the Fly Racing Moto 60 show, Zach Osborne gives his opinion on Prado. As a guy who won on both sides of the pond, he certainly speaks from experience.
Yeah quite a few people who would know better than us saying its not the bike
Pit Row
Exactly. Im a Kawi and Prado fan but this is true.
Ive wondered this as well. Does the KTM have more brute power to work with that allows him to leave the bike in 3rd gear a lot more and maybe he is having to use 2nd gear more on the Kawi, which is causing him to ride the bike harder? I'm sure they can get the horse power, but maybe not in the smooth manner that he wants. I dunno.
I can’t speak to the factory KTM/GG/HQ obviously…that said, I rode Kawis (albeit ‘18-earlier) before my KTM 450. The best way to describe the KTM is it’s deceptively fast. It feels slow, inviting you to use more and more throttle, until it dawns on you how fast you’re going.
In the Prado situation, I could see a circumstance where he’s chasing big power that’s delivered in a way that doesn’t feel like big power. That’s a much taller order than just building a top fuel dragster style engine.
The only asterisk is that supposedly when Herlings rode Prados MXGP bike it was hard to ride…so I dunno.
I came back to say this same thing. I was thin maybe Zach was going to back the rider, but him saying it was 85% Prado and 15% bike was nice to hear from someone as experienced as he is.
JT on the other hand seems to worship anyone from the GP's and has chosen to die on the "Prado should be a podium guy but the bike is slow" hill lol.
I still stand by my statement about the greats find a way. And being a multi-time World Champion, you'd think he'd be in that category. But he basically quit a moto because of the bike, at least that's how it seems.
Meanwhile Dungey finished a race shifting his effing bike with his hand lol
Read the rest of the shit that he’s posting if you want a laugh!😆
So Eli left because of the management, not the bike..🙄
Nobody actually listened to the podcast? BT knows "for a fact" that Eli left Kawi due to Kawi not being able to provide what he wants/needed from the bike. He also mentioned that Prado prepared Kawi for wanting the absolute fastest package they could make. I think BT and JT have a lot more inside information than we have from behind our keyboards. I can't find where and when he said it but even Herlings mentioned Prado's engine would get him killed if he tried riding with it. Prado's whole riding style, comfort and confidence comes from having the fastest bike possible. He's the best starter in the world and multitime world champion and no midpack slouch. This bike isn't what he expected and was promised when he signed the contract.
USA guys ride in a different area of the power, the tracks are different and they are much more aggressive on the throttle so they’re built to rev.
Prado rides a lot like Jett, all torque and momentum. If the Kawi has been set up for Anderson, Tomac, whoever else they need to move the power which isn’t as easy as it sounds. Watching Prado in the nationals he can’t use the power down low because there isn’t as much where he needs it. There was a clip I saw of the differences between Jett and Tomac through a section at Thunder Valley, Jetts bike was just above idle, Tomac on the Rev limiter. The bike probably isn’t slow, it’s just not made for Jorge yet whereas the Gas Gas would have been 100% set up for him
Read my post again. I didn't say he was doing it, but if he was, I still respect it due to his past results. Prado is the man. He was my favorite GP guy since he was on 250s. Now he is in my top 5 of favorite riders to follow in the nationals.
You dont get to this level of success without being a badass rider. He's a 2 time GP champ, he can do whatever he wants. All im saying is I respect his results, and any choices he makes moving forward. Even if he wants to mail it in for 3 years in the US and cash out. Would I like it? That's a different question, but i respect what he has done, and any decision he makes. What's makes you upset about that? That i respect him?
Yeah, I respect him throwing around his resume to make big bills in the states.
I didn't say i think he is doing that. Read the fucking post. I genuinely think he is try to make the bike work. He simply isn't comfortable.
Maybe I should just stay as a lurker on this forum. Some of you only want to fight. Im sure your significant other loves to be around you.. lol.
Yes, LH is much older, and you may very well be right — age and style adaptation could be a factor.
That said, I believe there’s more to the Hamilton story than what’s publicly disclosed. My gut says Lewis was crystal clear about what he needed to stay competitive, and the real friction lies in Ferrari’s deep-rooted team culture — right down to Adami, who’s steeped in the traditional Ferrari way and may be more of an obstacle than a support.
Let’s not forget: Leclerc has had five seasons to bring Ferrari a title, and it hasn’t happened. I don’t see that changing anytime soon. So, if we’re going to question performance, we need to question the environment, not just the driver.
Bringing it back to MX — this is the same challenge Eli Tomac faced at Kawasaki. KHI didn’t respond to the dirt-up needs. They didn’t build around the rider — and eventually, Eli moved on. Personally, I believe both ET and LH still have the drive and skill to win — but only if (and it’s a big if) the teams behind them are fully aligned to support their method.
KTM needs to let ET be ET. No black boxes. Just give him exactly what he asks for — even if that means opening the garage doors to KYB. Same deal with Jorge Prado — he communicated clearly to Kawasaki (KHI) what he needed. It’s all documented. And now, the results seem to be showing the consequences of ignoring that early clarity.
Boardroom Culture rarely understands what it takes to win from the dirt up.
When success becomes a system of approvals instead of a rider-first frequency, that’s where progress stalls — or dies entirely.
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