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In my personal experience, more men should be taking it, not less. Not the 20 somethings of course, but many men mid to later 30's start feeling the symptoms of low T yet do nothing about it. They aren't sleeping well, gym progress grinds way down, libido down and none of that is necessary.
I'd never go back.
I’ve been doing some research on T levels and it’s a proven fact that our grandfathers were walking around with higher T levels than we are. It’s a combination of diet, lifestyle, environment, and general lack of consistent physical hardship that has lowered T levels in our population. Most guys now just accept the decline and everything that goes with it as normal because everyone is deficient. Just like high blood pressure, diabetes, back pain, lack of cardio, etc. It really doesn’t have to be this way. Also the “science” behind testosterone causing prostate cancer is debunked nonsense as well.
From what I've heard and no I've not consulted a doctor about it but once you start you can't stop coming off it is a lot worse that your T levels go lower then they were before don't know if this is true or not? That's my question
If you are referring to haiden, he said himself that he was very sick, and his allergies were very bad and the dust made all of that worse. Name another time he’s had trouble breathing after a moto when he wasn’t sick.
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As a 39 year old I think a lot of people's problems are self induced. The testosterone level in humans has a very wide natural range, I'd be interested in a blind study that had half on testosterone and half on a placebo. I bet the placebo would work very well in a lot of the guys. Your 30's are a very stressful time, life starts going very fast with kids, work, and family.
I'm a fan and heard him say that as well. I'm not saying one way or the other it just popped into my head when they reported he went to the medic unit. I googled out of curiosity and thought of this thread. I must admit, I expected a lot more downvotes by now.
I consulted a doctor out of curiosity a couple of years ago, and he told me exactly that. My levels were in the middle of adult males and at the higher end for my age group, so he would not prescribe TRT because he said when you start artificially raising your T levels, your body stops working as hard on its own. It will not resume its normal functioning if you stop.
All out of touch as a species when we question whether eating the right diet, literally what fuels us, could allow us to perform longer and better
Get a hold of yourself man. Strength is not controlling others, it is controlling yourself.
If you're actually in "need" of TRT there would be no reason to come off. Its a lifestyle change. Going on and off testosterone is cycling not TRT
I just hate the standard idea of falling within a normal range of numbers based on the historical fact that those numbers are deficient in comparison. If you’re constantly compared to a group of un-athletic beta males that never see the sun or lift weights, you’re baseline numbers could be way higher than that average. When you notice a drop off in your personal levels a doctor will look at your lowered performance and still maintain the fact that it’s higher than the average.
That makes sense. My comment came out a bit unclear, I was told no because my levels were in the normal range. He added the caveat that if you start, you basically have to continue for life.
Sounds like you have a doc actually looking out for you. And not just trying to hand out scripts
Even the name is misleading..... you're not replacing anything, you just want more of it because it makes you feel better. So be it, but dressing this up as a disorder is just bullshit to get insurance to pay for it. The normal limits are poorly defined and all over the place because normal healthy levels can vary a ton. It used to be that this variation was seen as the body self regulating, aging, etc...... nothing disordered about it.... then people realized they could get rich selling the fountain of youth and here we are.
I'm sure I could lose a little weight and feel better with it but I won't touch the stuff.
Would love to see the venn diagram comparing those on TRT with those who rail against big pharma when it comes to nearly anything else though.
I get that side of it but what if preventing the falling off of already lower levels of testosterone improves your ability to fight off the standard middle age gambit of statins and metformin? Guys seem to have no problem popping those pills for the rest of their shitty, low energy lives while struggling with a limp dick. I haven’t gone down this road yet at 42 but there is a lot of compelling evidence. Also, the focus on improving “free” testosterone is a worthwhile journey as well.
It's a complicated question to answer but for the most part this comes down to a lot of correlation =/= causation and also isn't really the reason anyone is on the stuff. If you're already snowballing down the metabolic syndrome hill you're going to have all kinds of things turn up abnormal. Supplementing one or two of those things might not hurt much but it's also not really addressing the issue.
if testosterone didn't also come with the "it makes me feel better" part then very few people would take it purely for the health benefit it might have. So going too deep into the weeds arguing the actual data on actual health is just pointless in these conversations. No frumpy middle aged guys are sitting at home "researching" which class of BP meds might be best for them because none of them come with any subjective "feel like I'm in my 20s again" feelings. People are after that feeling but for some reason most aren't willing to just admit that so they need to convince themselves they're doing it for some other reason.
Needing to rationalize it this way is kind of telling to me. If you didn't suspect that it might not actually be great for you then you'd feel no need to justify using it for purely feel good reasons.
To those that just want to stay jacked etc regardless of any benefit or harm that may or may not exist and you have no problem saying so, thank you!
I guess the fundamental question is if testosterone is supposed to naturally drop off after spiking during puberty. From what I’ve read, biologically and historically, males can continue to reproduce we’ll into their 70s. There isn’t a reason in nature for your testosterone level to drop. Women are obviously a hormonal rollercoaster. If you look at TRT as not allowing the unnatural drop off, it seems different than shoving needles in your ass like Arnold. Most of the pharmaceutical industry is attempting to maintain a level your body had at a healthy age. They want your blood pressure to be what it was when you were 20. Same with blood sugar and insulin resistance.
You're confusing a drop in level with an absence of the hormone altogether. Nobody is getting diagnosed with no T, they're getting diagnosed with low T, and the question is low compared to what? I would argue that the "low" value that's getting most guys prescribed meds is more than adequate for normal human functioning for a middle aged man, including reproduction if that's the goal.
Defining normal values for this kind of thing is actually pretty complicated and something I find pretty interesting, but if the distribution for a lab test at a given age fits a nice bell curve it's hard to argue that the meat of that bell curve isn't normal just because the bell curve moves for a different population of people.
To put it another way, if you're going to argue that a majority of people are high or low on a value, there needs to be other compelling evidence as to what normal should be based on if not where the majority of people actually are at. Obesity is a good example of this. If you take an average sampling of adults and plot the results you would be wrong to assume that because a BMI of 40 is in the meat of the bell curve that that should be considered normal, but we have very clear and drastically different BMI data from all of modern history to look at to tell us that what we're seeing now is not normal. We do not have that with low T. To the extent anything has changed over time with T, it's subtle and debatable, not clear and convincing.
Apologies for nerding out again..... can't help it.
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"normal" levels for anything are based on a modern populace. modern populace is anything but normal. look at functional levels. #thanksbillgates #billhasbitchtits
So do you just take meds to tweak some numbers to make them look more normal or do you address the root causes and make some changes on those levels? Taking a population that is abnormal because of their environment and choices and giving them more drugs makes them less normal, not more normal. Whenever it was that people were normal, they weren't taking any of this crap.
Functional medicine is so close to being onto things, but they fall into the same trap as all of modern medicine and end up just wanting to sell you stuff.
Some trt doctors treat symptoms as opposed to t levels. Someone with low levels may possibly feel much better than someone with higher numbers. And some will call 200 “normal”
I didn't say anything about drugs, just levels. Treating root causes is important, but having the right reference ranges is critical to begin with, not 21st century wage slave desk jockey levels.
Re T levels, there's probably other stuff at play like androgen receptors, that have declined over time
Just speculating tho
I do find it humorous that some seem to think TRT is going to make them "jacked and ripped." Yeah its a miracle treatment. You can eat that McDonald's you usually eat every day and you're shredded.
ChatGPT said:
In the modern man of this century, the primary cause of low testosterone (Low T) is multifactorial, but one leading contributor stands out:
🧬 Endocrine Disruption from Environmental Toxins
(Primary Root Cause)
Plastics (BPA, phthalates) — Found in food packaging, water bottles, receipts, etc.
Pesticides & herbicides — Glyphosate disrupts gut and hormone pathways.
Heavy metals — Lead, cadmium, mercury interfere with testosterone synthesis.
PFAS (forever chemicals) — Found in nonstick cookware, fast food wrappers, etc.
These toxins act as xenoestrogens—compounds that mimic estrogen—leading to testosterone suppression and hormonal imbalances.
🧠 Secondary Major Contributors
Chronic Stress & Cortisol Dominance
High stress elevates cortisol, which suppresses testosterone production.
Obesity & Insulin Resistance
Visceral fat converts testosterone into estrogen via aromatase.
Metabolic dysfunction reduces luteinizing hormone (LH) stimulation.
Lack of Physical Activity
Sedentary lifestyle diminishes the body’s natural T-production feedback loops.
Poor Sleep / Sleep Apnea
Deep sleep is when most T is produced; chronic sleep deprivation severely impacts levels.
Nutrient Deficiencies
Low levels of zinc, magnesium, vitamin D, and boron all reduce T synthesis.
Excessive Screen Time & EMF Exposure
Blue light and EMFs (especially near reproductive organs) may influence endocrine function.
💡 Summary
Apologies, I didn't read all the reply's but maybe I'll post a little more of my own story.
Early 40's cop here. I had a plethora of low T symptoms. An avid gym goer and one time men's physique competitor at the local level. My progress had halted in every measurable way. Strength and weight was a at a total plateau, despite trying every trick I could think of. Sleep was often broken. I was Irritable and short tempered. Libido was much less. I did make a change with work that lessened some stress, which did give me a general mood improvement after a few months.
Sure enough, when I had my numbers checked, I was in the normal range, but towards the bottom of that scale. I care less about the numbers, and more about my well being, so a few years ago I decided to hop on. I am now at the high end for even a younger man, and I'm fine with it. Every single one of my symptoms went away, yes including my strength and size plateau. I did go from 210 at 6'1 to around 225 and that's where I'm most comfortable.
My prostate is fine, my estrogen is also fine. Hemoglobin is elevated , so I give blood twice a year. I take 175mg a week, split into two injections. Unless something changes to the negative, I'll be on this forever.
Lil Deegs wasn't exactly like Stew and RC smoking his amateur competition by 20 seconds as a youth. Matter of fact, he wasn't even that good in the SX Futures program. It's like his progression just took off from when his amateur days ended and his pro days at Star began. He came out swinging and it was relatively unexpected from most of us fans. But knowledgable fans at that.
Where there's money and sports, there's probably doping PED cheating of some sort. However minor, it's been done, it's being done period.
The pellet works wonders too. It's just that there is a dropoff in between
Pretty similar here other than I’m only 36. Biggest improvement for me was energy and sleep quality. My results in the gym didn’t change a whole lot until I got my diet more squared away.
I have a co worker who I got into lifting a year ago. Guy is my age, 5’4ish and 285lbs. He eats pretty decent and has shown zero results this past year. His doctor won’t even order labs for him to get his hormones checked, oh but they do prescribe him ozympic which has also shown no results. I feel bad for the guy.
I also get elevated red blood cells, but can’t donate blood since im on muslys hair pill. I drink a cup of grapefruit juice a day and stopped eating as much red meat. So far so good, but I do miss steaks and ground beef.
Sorry to derail the TRT talk here but just making sure we are all happy that the 38 was sick and still went 1-1 at hottest race of year. Nothing to see here 😇 - weird NONE of his teammates seem to have this endurance even though they all train together 🧐.
Do you mind if I ask what your hemoglobin count is? That’s where my troubles are at. I take a shot every two weeks and give blood every 3 months but my count is still high.
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