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Wow. I knew drag racing was popular, but I didn't think they were pulling those kinds of numbers. That's a lot of people.
You keep asking for numbers but yet do no research yourself to prove your point. I really need to ask you this to try to get a handle on your misguided view of the state of MX . How old are you? Were you involved in the sport in the 70’s-80’s ? It’s a serious question,not ball busting
'More idiots buying bikes'.. Yeah fuck you local bike shops
'Tracks more crowded'.. Yeah fuck you local track owners
Yeah I was pretty shocked at that too. I was into it during a short hiatus from mx back in the late 80’s and went to several ,and they were packed . But surprised they were still pulling that kind of numbers. And NHRA tv viewership numbers just blow away SX /Mx. . But the declining interest at the grassroots amateur level is the most alarming issue for MX that I experience. Certainly a fraction ( and a small one at that) of what the participation was back “in my day” , regardless of what 3stroke is trying to espouse.
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Tonight Show with Jay Leno averaged about 1.7mm views, according to wikipedia.
I think the numbers combined across all McAdoo balls out posts on all social media platforms would be higher than 1.7mm.
McAdoo's instagram post got 40.5k likes, so views were probably 3-5x that, mostly moto fans, but click bait media companies picked it up, like Barstool Sports, so Im sure the total non moto fan impressions were not trivial.
I just googled it. I lived it and had a Honda dealership in the 80's. Sold out when the 3 Wheeler thing became bad in 1988.
Millions more people today in the USA. Maybe 50 to 80 million. 1/3 of the sales but this doesn't include 4x4 and side by sides. But those are not motorcycles so I feel it's a fair comparison to say sales are a 3rd of what the were 50 years later with more people living in the USA today. A decline for sure
..
Those numbers probably include street bikes.
Just pick one objective metric and show me how it supports your opinion.
It's a big stretch to evaluate the current state of an industry by comparing against how nationally popular you thought an activity was while you were a child.
Nhra counts total attendance over 3 and 4 days, it's a bit different as they are recounting spectators. Regardless, I see it's has been on the increase in the last 15 years after looking into it. Indycar is supposedly increasing as well, whereas nobody will argue that Nascar isn't in a lonstanding decline. Regardless, none of those sports has the potential to break into the mainstream as much as Moto imho. People want to see athletics, stick and ball sports prove it. And car driving, fair or not, is not considered to be a very athletic sport in any discipline except f1. But, if u guys think Indycar or nhra is bigger than supercross, or has the type of potential supercross has in regards to Marketing themselves as Having world class athletes more power to you. I read in Mxa probably during the Carmichael era that supercross was the #2 motorsport in the US after Nascar, that may have changed apparently. Guess we already missed the boat haha
I pretty much gave you every stat that I’ve experienced actually being out there and DOING it. Not what I “thought” as a child lol. From 1974 until 2025 . Raced in 18 different States, from just a B class Amateur thru to being an AMA Pro and now as a Vintage National Title holder in both major sanctioning bodies. And I’m telling you that the amount of participants /tracks/and series at a grassroots amateur level is an absolute shell of what it was . I’m not waxing nostalgic for the old days, mainly because I’m still DOING it.
And you still didn’t answer my simple question that requires no research —- how old are you. ? And did you grow up in the US ?
Thumb - don’t take it personally lol. I’m a much bigger fan of MX and SX (and still race MX at 65)than I am of any other Motorsport, but attendance and TV viewership numbers don’t lie. Unfortunately our sport isn’t very close to being #1 or 2. As far as having “potential “ to be mainstream ,keep in mind the SX/MX is 50+years old and with the local grassroots racing declining I think Pro moto becoming mainstream is more of a pipe dream now than it was back in the 80’s/90’s when it almost had a legitimate shot
I totally agree that if the broader public was exposed to our athletes and their stories that it would make for a very compelling Netflix show..... that would generate a very short lived increase in popularity and then a return to the baseline.
I worked parts counter at Yamaha kawasaki Suzuki dealership early 2000s and uncle had been a mechanic there for years.... the place closed about a decade ago as did the Honda dealer in the next town over. Even in the 90s it wasn't at all uncommon for kids to get a mini bike as a gift even if they had no family history riding.... 4 wheelers were everywhere, wave runners were everywhere.... powersports in general had a fairly low bar to entry. If you wore out your mini bike you might convince your dad to get you a YZ80 and with a pickup truck and not much investment you could show up and practice and race at local track. That is not at all the case anymore. Costs too much, too intimidating to dive into unless you've got someone walking you through it, and when fewer people are riding there's less chance you happen to know someone who you can ask.
It's hard to get really invested in a sport as a fan if you have no frame of reference for how difficult the thing the pros are doing is. When every neighborhood kid had taken some 50 off a wooden ramp there was at least some frame of reference. Today a lot of kids don't even know how to ride a bike so no way to really be in awe at what these guys are doing.
All of that to say.... I don't believe there's any chance that any motorsport Is ever mainstream again nor do I think that should really be the goal. Sustainable is good enough for me, but even that is going to take effort. Buy a TTR and an extra helmet or two and take people riding. A critical mass of people who like to ride dirt bikes is only thing that's going to keep the sport alive. Same approach I take with guns and gun rights. Easiest way to get someone in your camp is to have an extra 22 pistol in your bag and let them run through a box of ammo plinking.
Speaking of packer games people hv no idea how big the nfl is in gb. People from
All ovr the world come to town for a game they loose it when they see the hallowed ground they call it. Yet the biggest sports bar in towns went from 1 tv with sx to most of them . People where saying oh look at that . The 2-st racing was quicker & much more exciting. It was on the verge of taking the nfl ovr in 98, 2000. Then the 4-st started racing u didn’t see many quick passes or crashes . In 04 the sport totally changed . No more 700+ at local tracks , the sport got too expensive. Like trans oil was 1.99 forever then with the 4-st take ovr it’s 16 bucks. Most people don’t watch tv anymore . It was free on espn 2 a lot of apartments had free basic cable , young people watched then went to a race. It seems wayy to corporate now & tries too hard to b Profeshenal. A small thing but I like the pre monster girl victory celebrations. Local girls where the trophy girls & Genuinely Happy to be there the same with the riders . The guys that ride every week don’t watch any pro races. . Riders basically look at the top pro,s as the reason why there bike & parts r soo expensive now. There Really not fans of them. Deegans r the big thing but that’s Really boring hearing the same thing repeated ovr & ovr. Not a single blog was entertaining. The follower #,s I,m sure r made up. Too easy to do that . If a foreigner can hack the military drive onto there base and leave with a trailer full of weapons. I think u could easily create a fake hysteria. That’s basically what it is. Too much training talk , ah Yawn .
Dinosaurs
I think the problem is deeper than that. Majority of people are self absorbed, lazy, and soft. For example, I’ve watched a kid near me ride on the street for 3 years on a TTR50. His dad has taken him riding one time. He started riding on the street when he still needed training wheels. They would rather sit at home and do nothing or very little.
That's what she said.
A bike that cost 5.5k in 2002 is now 10k-13k, and for a new rider offers basically the same performance. Most guys could go just as fast on a 2002 CRF450R as they can on a 2025 model.
Local track participation? It's the cost of a bike that is hurting the sport more than anything. A dad and his needs to spend 20 grand to 25 grand on two new 450's...tell me where that sounds cost effective...? That's a lot of gas, entry fee, gear funds, etc.
Would be interesting to know if the Chinese mini-bikes are included in the current motorcycle sales numbers, like from Tractor Supply, Bass Pro Shop, etc.
Pit Row
In 1974, Southwick had 8 heats of 125 Novices and a CR125 cost $699.
I grew up in Avonmore, PA in the 70's. Back then everyone in the entire world rode motorcycles. Yeah the bikes were real cheap and shitty and the "tracks" were really doing laps around Chip Skelly's house or the old strip mine behind the factory on shit creek, and everyone in the world was really like 5-6 kids from the neighborhood.
But the scene was hot and heavy until we were old enough to drive cars, then it was just a 2-3 of us but we started traveling to races. Sure the popular races were flat track, but sometimes fans would come out to the middle of nowhere to watch us blast off the huge 6in jumps on the natural terrain motocross tracks. It's almost like as the urban areas developed, the riding areas that I know disappeared. Now since I still live in the same place, it's a suburb and I have to travel to the new riding areas.
There were races everywhere back then! Now there are only a handful of motocross tracks. I don't like the tracks so much because the motos are too short and there are too many, too much waiting around. Speaking of too many, the local offroad race series (multiple) are so full that their biggest problem is finding locations large enough to accommodate the necessary parking. It's almost like as the motocross races got shorter, more people started doing offroad, maybe I'll have to go check out the Switchback GP, AWRCS or NECXC (series that all started in the past 15 years) before I decide that motocross is dead vs adapting to the changing times.
Ever see Carson Brown ride his 02 cr125 ? He bought for 200 bucks it sounds Really good , I think it’s the fastest he ever went on a 125 . I remember seeing guys on new totally stock racing them at pro ams . Just screaming them on the ovr rev
Now we’re getting somewhere . I grew up in Burrell ,[ 15 min from Avonmore ) and on my street alone ,we had 10 kids that raced mx . And thruout High School In just my home room of 31 ,there were 5 of us that raced . My graduating class was 277 and I know there were at least 12 guys that I can remember that raced regularly. There were a shit ton more that rode dirt bikes casually . Lower Burrell produced at least 6 AMA Pro mx guys. Me, Mike Murphy , Keith Schultz, Jerry Sanders , Lynn Kirkland(rip), Blaine Frantz . When my daughter graduated 15 years ago, her class was close to 1,000 and maybe we’d see only 2or 3 of her classmates at the races . Also, ALL those new series that you mentioned-AWRCS,NECXC, are woods/XCountry events and not MX. And the Switchback GP is a once a year Thanksgiving XCountry type deal too, we raced a few of each of those over the years and they definitely do get decent turnouts , but this conversation was centered around moto, which those races are definitely not . Since you’re from the area ,( maybe even we raced together ?)surely you remember Penny Hollow, Hotshoe park, Rocky Ridge, Country Springs, High Point, Keystone,Shoaf, Harbor Woods ,Freedom Acres ,Bel Mesa and I’m sure there may be a few I’m missing , and they all had AMA sanctioned District 5 races and they were all within a 90 minute drive and every race was jam packed . Especially the nicer tracks like Penny Hollow, Harbor Woods ,Shoaf and of course High Point . What do we have now ? PVR is the only one that I can name . Again since you’re from the area , I’m sure you know the Yamaha/ Husky dealer that I spoke of earlier that gave me the sales figures that showed the dramatic decline of MX bike sales. And at one point , they were the number 1 Yamaha dealer in Pa. But I do agree that modern mx has way too much waiting around between your 10 min motos .surely a reason to the shift towards woods racing ,certainly one of the reasons we started doing the Vintage /PV/ NextGen scene . More time racing ,less time dicking around . We actually have more AHRMA mx tracks (4)within a 90 minute drive than we have modern tracks .
I think there’s a lot of good points being made and just because one isn’t the way you think doesn’t mean it’s 100% wrong. It’s multiple reasons, here’s a few that make me think the sport is declining. I have no data to back up any of this, it’s just my observation and opinion, yours may vary.
It’s a dangerous sport and parents wrap their kids in bubble wrap these days. That has to play a part. Kids are softer and the parents are the reason.
The internet/gaming etc has to play a part as well.
I’m not sure how much the cost is the issue when you have 30k side by sides. The dealers in our area probably have a 20 to 1 ratio of sxs verses bikes (street and dirt) in stock. Guessing that’s because they sell a lot more of them verses bikes.
I ride because the hook was set early on in my life and I’ll always have some type of bike. Without the early exposure I’d probably have a different hobby. I actually asked a group that I was riding with a few months ago how they got into riding, they’re all older guys. Every story was about being introduced to riding at an early age. Maybe stacyc and electric bikes, like them or not, will introduce kids to riding, maybe not.
Less available public riding areas.
Kids have a lot more options for recreation these days verses “back in the day”. Kids soccer and golf weren’t anywhere near the radar when I was growing up (80s-90s) and now they’re huge. Hell our area high schools now have bowling and bass fishing teams….
Again, these are just my observations and opinion, yours may vary.
All of your points are definitely valid. There’s certainly many reasons that moto is declining and you hit on what are probably the biggest ones. As you, I also don’t believe it’s cost. As someone mentioned earlier that a 74 Elsinore cost 699 , sounds really affordable,but that equates to around 4800 in 2025 money, so it’s really not that far off .
$5,500 in 2002 is worth about $9,500 now. The prices now aren't that much more expensive than they were 25 years ago.
This, i firmly believe that the owners of the sport chasing the TV deal was a bad move.. reason being is it being on a paid app and you still have to search for it.. only the core to hardcore are streaming it every weekend.
If sx and mx want more eyeballs on it.. needs to be free on youtube every weekend and there needs to be a “ride to survive”
But will is benifit us local guy who ride not really
Magoofan , I think you are correct, the small town I live in is popping with kids on E bikes. I think it’s coming back in a big way. E bike tracks will be opening in back yards and hiden pieces of property kids couldn’t rid because of the noise. The old guys like me are slow to get one , but soon I’m jumping in. Small towns will start backing local tracks , and I hope we can start some So Cal racing clubs, similar to the surf clubs. I’m totally excited about the future of our sport. And similar to the US economy , good, positive vibes can,and will make a difference. Nothing lost by loosing the CANT do attitude. If the people who have supported the greatest sport of all time, from the 70s until now don’t believe , no one else will. . I hear the same people who were bitching about kids playing to many video games , now bitching about them doing wheelies down the street on E Bikes. You are either part of the solution, or you are a dick….
If the number of motorcycles sold dictates the health of the sport, why doesn't India (the largest market for motorcycles) have the best motocross scene?
I know two “bike shop” owners and they are two of the richest people I know. Great guys both…but how much more do they need? The two tracks I ride the most are so owvercrowded they are already barely worth going to…so they don’t need more. So yes, my concern is for the riders that made those people, good people as they are, rich. So…my concern is “growing” the sport into something we don’t recognize or enjoy as much. There is a balance….we had it for years. You can deem it a selfish viewpoint….but the other reflects greed. Feld could not care less about the sport. They care about money. I don’t begrudge anyone for making money where they can….i just love the sport…for the rider. I would prefer it not become the NBA. Too much money ruins a sport. Can’t stand the NBA anymore. It just happened to college basketball. No more Cinderella stories. This is just my view. You can have another. All jmho.
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